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Discussion: Pitcher's Rule

Posted Discussion
Nov. 13, 2008
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
Pitcher's Rule
Played in the Texas Half Century qualifier in Dallas last weekend... I thought I knew the seemingly straightforward, newly instituted pitcher's rule... A batted ball that hits a pitcher while the pitcher is in the pitcher's box with no chance to make a defensive play is a dead ball out ... Sounds simple enough... But what is the "silhouette" rule???... The tournament director alluded to this interpretation... He said that the ball only has to pass through the pitcher's box... The ball doesn't have to hit the pitcher at all... He said the "silhouette" rule came from the top... What gives???
Nov. 13, 2008
Duke
Men's 60
720 posts
#19,

I have to say that this rule is good for safety reasons, but SSUSA has to establish what the real rules are for this. Obviously, everyone is interpreting this rule differently, as they do about what is a 12 foot arc, something between 6 feet and 15 feet. Honestly, I do not have a real answer for you, and find the whole thing to be a bit on the funny side.

Andy Smith,
Double Nickels,
Manager/Coach
Nov. 13, 2008
PlanoPlayer
Men's 55
71 posts
We also played in the Texas Half Century tournament in Dallas this past weekend. We had three guys get called out in one game for HITS that went somewhere through the middle but never touched the pitcher. These were hits in my and my team's opinion and the ump in this particular game called you out whether it hit the pitcher or not and he said he got the direction to call it that way from Keith the tournament director.

I am all for protecting the pitcher and I think that if you hit the pitcher there should at least be a dead ball out penalty but you should not be called out for base hits that go THROUGH the middle without ever touching the pitcher.

Plano Player
Nov. 13, 2008
TexasTransplant
Men's 70
420 posts
Also from the THC tournament in Dallas: Ball hit well over the pitcher's head is called a DBO. Is there an upper limit on the pitcher's box?

I've reconciled myself to having to play with this rule, but it certainly needs some clarification.

I don't think the umps at the THC tournament had any prior experience with the rule. Some orientation for players and umpires would seem to be in order.
Nov. 13, 2008
Airbosn
Men's 65
321 posts
IMO...Just a bad rule. As a pitcher I sometimes pitch outside to get the batter to come back middle. I also vacate the pitcher box by going to the left or right depending on where I think the batter is trying to place the ball... So as discussed in the above am I to assume the batter will be out because I purposely vacated the pitcher's box and his hit went middle? Crazy rule, needs to be eliminated.
Nov. 13, 2008
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
612 posts
This is not a good rule because of all the mystery, interpretation, etc. If you are pitching and get hit, this rule will not undo that damage or make it hurt less. At the risk of adding to my redundancy on this, if pitcher safety is the issue, then protective equipment such as a mask and cup should be recommended for pitchers.

I guess that we could play like the 8 year olds and institute coach pitch. Anyone want to play pitcher's helper? ;-)
Nov. 13, 2008
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
19, I was with you and Keith FORGOT about the rule on Saturday. He started it Sunday. TRIPLE CROWN AND HE FORGOT !THIS WAS NOT THE ONLY THING BAD IN THIS TOURNAMENT.I think the whole tournament sucked, and don't care if we EVER play in HALF CENTURY tournament again.Playing mostly major and major + teams. Are you hitting with Doak and them on Saturday at9:00 ?
Nov. 13, 2008
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
At least SSUSA has a e-mail address to contact them, not half century !!!
Nov. 13, 2008
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
My bad, I found the e-maill address for half century.
Nov. 13, 2008
Hela
2 posts
I'm a pitcher and I find this entire issue crazy. We decide to play paintball... we allow the use of 9mm pistols and then try and figure out how to protect ourselves from them!!! Step 1... get rid of the Mikens and/or go to a softer ball. The game has turned into home run derby. Why not take the game back to small ball.... imagine having to get more than one hit to score a run!!

There, I feel better!
Nov. 13, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
#6,
Try this was in news paper:
eagleat13@yahoo.com
If it was the one in Georrgetown, tx with Keith Parker, 903-315-6374
Yiou might look in the papers for Jim Carry as well.
Nov. 13, 2008
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
612 posts
The last statistics that I saw on sports injuries indicated that you were more likely to be seriously injured participating in cheerleading than softball. Hopefully none of the pitchers are on a senior cheerleading competitive squad.
Nov. 13, 2008
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
taits, Thanks I found it already. Are you playing in Vegas in the Winter World?
Nov. 13, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
#6,
No, but I'd love another chace to play against you. We had a good game last year. Even if you did win.
Nov. 13, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
#6,
Give my regards to your team mates.
Maybe this up the middle rule will help your pitcher out if I face him again. That at bat wasn't pretty.
Nov. 14, 2008
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
Hey #6... The tournament director also described something called "the silhouette rule" where any ball hit up the middle was a dead ball out ... I don't know where that came from!... Anyway, if it's warm I'll be there on Saturday morning... Otherwise I will be hibernating.
Nov. 14, 2008
Mitch
Men's 50
68 posts
Food for thought:
With the bases 65 feet apart, that makes 2nd base 91.9 feet from home plate.
The pitchers mound is 50 feet from home plate. That leaves 41.9 feet between the pitchers mound and 2nd base.
WHAT IF, the pitchers mound was moved back to 60 feet from home plate. Before you say "no way", think about it.
1. It would give the pitcher more time to react to a batted ball.
2. Take "more" of the middle away from batters.
3. A team would probably be able to turn more double plays thereby speeding up the game.
4. More of the balls hit past a pitcher and over 2nd base would be playable and cause more outs, again speeding up the game.
5. Allow the pitcher to wear protection, if they want to, and keep the middle in play.
6. A batter would run a greater risk of being put out since the pitcher would have a better chance to field the ball, again speeding up the game.

If you think about it, it's would almost be like adding another infielder right at 2nd base. It would be a lot harder to hit up the middle and past the pitcher since they would be back another 10 feet.

You see a lot of pitchers who immediately run backwards after they pitch in an effort to cut off the middle. With the extra 10 feet, they wouldn't have to run back and it would give them more time to get into a defensive position.

Now, let me say, I am NOT a pitcher and have no idea how hard it would be for pitchers to adjust to the added 10 feet.

Any thoughts from pitchers out there?
Nov. 14, 2008
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
612 posts
Mitch, after all these years, it is nice to see someone else using the Pythagorean Theorem in softball. I no longer have to think that I might be the only one. NSA's solution was to move the pitcher's rubber back to 53' which means for seniors that there is a 3' alley. Of course just like many rule changes over safety, it only invites more changes. So the bases are 70' apart in NSA. My guess is this happened because when they looked at the 53' rubber with 65' bases that it looked odd to them. When they first changed to 53', I noticed that the pitchers struggled a little between either throwing a very low or very high arch to make the distance, but good pitchers got it with a little practice. Of course with seniors, I have seen a few pitching at the back of the alley (pitcher's box) anyway which would be 56'.
Nov. 14, 2008
WOW
197 posts
Whats next, a line drive hit to 3rd. is going to be an out!!!!!!! Give me a break. If you can't field the ball, don't be a pitcher.
Nov. 14, 2008
softballer
Men's 55
560 posts
Line drive to 3rd base is an out!
Nov. 14, 2008
Enviro-Vac
Men's 60
399 posts
We play SPN in Canada where the pitcher is allowed to pitch from any point within a 24" wide box going back as far as 65' from the pitchers rubber at 50'. A good pitcher can pitch from 65' which gives the pitcher a lot of raction time especially if the pitchers has backed up a few steps after release of ball. That variable distance between 50' and 65' also allows a really good the pitcher to do much more with a ball.
Nov. 16, 2008
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
More absurdly extreme rule changes to accommodate special bats.
Nov. 16, 2008
Enviro-Vac
Men's 60
399 posts
Not really ...SPN in Canada follow ASA bat rules and use a 40COR 375 Comp ball
Nov. 16, 2008
mad dog
Men's 60
3936 posts
no need to explain jimmy,the spn idea sounds like a good one.it is already a hitters game,let the pitcher have some leeway as to where he can stand for distance from the plate.people who don't play or contribute to the game in any real way will not understand your explanation anyways.
Nov. 16, 2008
WOW
197 posts
S-baller. I think you know what I mean.
Nov. 17, 2008
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Then there should be no need for any special rules. Seriously, if a pitcher cannot cover the middle with those rules he needs a new position. I never asked a wide received to only jog if he was too fast for me to cover him.
Nov. 17, 2008
firebird380hp
Men's 50
81 posts
well like some of you I'm going to throw my 2 cents in...either do one of 2 things,let the pitcher pitch from whatever distance he feels good with as lond as he's from the rubber back not just 56' but wherever he wants.I guess make it a floating rubber.I pitch also and can oitch from whatever distance I need to when I play senior me being a youngster I play outfield.But when I come back home and play with my young team I pitch and cover second after the pitch.Or make wearing protection mandatory.leave the balls and bats alone let us have some fun!!!
Nov. 17, 2008
firebird380hp
Men's 50
81 posts
And if you was to go with a floating rubber and you have pitcher's complaining maybe they do need to look for another position.I have watched some guys pitch and the biggest problem I've seen is there still backing up once the ball is hit so it catch's then off balance that's his own fault not the batter or ball.
Nov. 17, 2008
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Is hitting a homer with these bats any more fun than dunking with a trampoline? If all you want to do is hit, skip games and just take BP. But why keep messing with the rules?

I agree completely with your second post, yet those same guys will still cry when someone hits a ball within their timezone.
Nov. 17, 2008
firebird380hp
Men's 50
81 posts
hitting the ball out the park is part of the game just like anything else though.I dont think your ever going to have it to where somebody's not going to complain.As far as hitting hrs. when my team dont have any to hit I go backside or 5,6 hole. It's big field out there so once the hrs. are gone learn to hit the open field..or as everyone try's to tell the pitcher if you can't hit anything but hrs. find another game to play.
Nov. 17, 2008
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Along the same lines if you cannot cover the middle find a new position to play, but no one should be asking for silly rule changes to cover their issues.
Nov. 17, 2008
firebird380hp
Men's 50
81 posts
I agree
Oct. 13, 2009
neck10
498 posts
use the screen that would not happen unless you hit it then you should be out .
Oct. 13, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Since when is the middle no longer considered a part of the field?
Oct. 13, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Nancy, you rule
and where have you been all my life.
Stats show we're more likely to be injured
in cheer-leading than softball.
I love it though some others won't.
Oct. 13, 2009
Tate22
Men's 55
263 posts
I am always amazed when players claim that punishing a hitter with an out actually protects the pitcher. Here it is October and we are still getting examples of how the rule cannot be enforced correctly or consistently. Just once, I'd like to see the following sentence completed. "The PPR protects pitchers and ensures safety by _________. I'm not holding my breath for that to happen.

If the design of the PPR is to outlaw hitting to the middle of the field, please man up and say so. Just chalk off a pie shaped area from home plate towards the fence that is maybe 30 ft. wide when it passes 2nd base. That might keep balls away from the pitcher, but is that what we want for our game? Wake up, punishing hitters does not protect pitchers. Protective equipment protects pitchers, it's available, legal, and the game doesn't have to be dumbed down for pitchers to be safer.

Don Newhard
Oct. 13, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
"einstein", you could me right but would you please cite your sources. It is easy just to make comments with no substantiation.
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