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Discussion: On the DBO rule

Posted Discussion
Nov. 25, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
On the DBO rule
I don't care for the rule as written but it's there. I don't think a pitcher was involved in the final wording.
I hit the middle quite often. I've hit two guys in BP in the last 2 weeks. One is a very good travel buddy. His hand is really bad. He too is a pitcher.
If one wants to penalize a batter for hitting a pitcher of coming what is perceived too close, what ever that is why not;
Make any batter that hits the pitcher, no matter how, i.e., a straight shot, a bouncer or what ever, is ejected from the game.
This will not "protect" the pitcher but may ward off some un or intentional hits that may occur.
For myself, that's where I normally go.
I do not think there is much that can or will be done to "protect" him. Like has been said, protect yourself and PLAY.
Nov. 25, 2008
risotopgun
Men's 60
2 posts
my take on the new pitchers rule after playing a few tournaments is simply this......for the safety of the pitcher as well as preserving the integrity of the game as it should be played, it would be far better if the pitchers were required to wear safety equipment and forget about the pitchers box rule.......it does nothing to address the safety of the pitcher . pitchers get hit both intentionally and unintentionally...let's protect them with a rule that works for all involved.
Nov. 26, 2008
santo
Men's 55
41 posts
How about adding a few safety rules after the DBO rule. If you hit the 3rd baseman, you have to sit out 2 innings. If you hit the 1st baseman, you sit out 3 innings. If you hit the 2nd baseman, you have to sit out 4 innings. And if you hit the ss, you sit out 5 innings. Now if you somehow manage to hit the LF player, your team wins the game!!!!
Nov. 26, 2008
JOHN BOB
Men's 60
76 posts
I hear you santo, But the penalty should be more for hitting 3rd baseman being that's where I play. I think some people are trying to make a joke out of senior ball,I have friends that played till their late 30's were very good players and they are always joking about the special senior rules. If a screen is put in this old boy will be doing a lot more fishing,because the game of softball I've loved playing for last 38 years would have just died!!
Nov. 27, 2008
VINNY LV
Men's 50
178 posts
Enough about the pitcher rule.. just go out and be a man and play the game the way it's supposed to be played.. I'm 56 and I still pitch on an E tournament team and with the youngins in league.. I'v been hit in the chest and wrist with balls... The best thing I find is to keep in great physical condition and just let the ball bounce where it may.. Alot of the youngins where the mask or shin guards,, so wise up guys b4 our game is ruined...
Nov. 27, 2008
the wood
1085 posts
Taits:
I'm not sure how hitting a couple of people in BP qualifies you as having additional insight. I've taken BP with the same guy for the better part of 10 years now. At times, we've used pitching screens and other times we've gone without them. In that time frame, we've hit each other once or twice. So you might wish to exercise a little bit more caution. Regardless, BP is a departure from an actual game.
But how can you be so certain that there wasn't anyone with pitching experience involved in the final decision? First of all, pitchers don't all belong in the same pigeon hole. Some of them 'pitch first, field second' type of players... others are quite the opposite... first, second in terms of priorities, not in terns of sequence.
So perhaps you meant that there were no non-fielding pitchers involved in the final decision.
And your thought of making hitting the pitcher as cause for ejection is a bit like giving the midget the yo-yo with the extra long string... doesn't much sense.
What the heck? A year ago there was no DBO rule (senior ball) and there was less whining about this subject. SSUSA has made a sincere effort to include this rule in the interest of safety. Maybe the umpires haven't been as consistent in calling it as they should. Before you and all of the others 'cry foul' let them have ample opportunity to work out the kinks. It has not been a factor in any game (SSUSA) that WE played this past season... we = GSF.
If this rule and its application doesn't resolve itself, the obvious next step is to reduce the bat or ball. I like playing the game as it's played right now... I liked it when we used Bombats... I like our senior league in Long Beach (no 2 piece bats, no double walls, no composites)... I'll like it if the equipment is changed.
If safety honestly is the REAL CONCERN on this matter, the sooner we stop BS'ing ourselves, the better we'll be. I don't need to use high end bats if I'm putting someone's health/life in jeopardy... I don't need to use them to enjoy the game... these bats have only been available since 2002, I started playing in the late 60s... I enjoyed the game just as much then. The big thing for me is the people that I play with/against, not the equipment.
But I do enjoy the Combats, Ultras, etc. and will be happy to continue using them. As an infielder, I am fully aware of the risks that I take. If I want to wear protective gear, I'll do so... I couldn't care less what anyone might think of me if/when I do. At this point in time, I prefer to go without it... and I damn well do not need/want to have this legislated down on me.
BW
Nov. 28, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
The wood,

Like the rule, it's all absurd the way written &\or enforced.
Nov. 28, 2008
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
wood, as usual you are 100% correct.
Nov. 28, 2008
the wood
1085 posts
Taits:
I cannot offer meaningful comment on the enforcement element of it. But, as it's written, it seems fairly clear to me.
Quite frankly, I have more trouble attempting to decipher your posts than I do with the DBO rule. What you lack in punctuation you more than make up in dangling participles.
There are just a few basic elements to the rule:
1) You hit the pitcher with a batted ball you are out... with 2
exceptions.
2) First exception - if the pitcher isn't in the pitching box.
3) Second exception - if the ball hits him in the arms while in the act of fielding the ball (this essentially means that the pitcher has no chance to field it).
This rule does require an umpire's judgement on the last portion. But this is what umpires do... make judgements.
Leave it in their hands... however, since you seem to show little bat control in BP, I'd suggest that you stay out of the middle... it could be an out.
BW
Nov. 30, 2008
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
I'm convinced though most of us are well intentioned
that the DBO is not worth the bother unless
it's got real teeth like side out or ejection
and in fact I prefer as I've said numerous times
that giving the pitchers more leverage
is the way to go.
Look how effective widening and lengthening the pitchers
box has been and that's only one thing that could be done.
Balls over the fence being hits instead of outs is another
deterrent.
We should add:
Bigger plate
Bigger pitchers box
1-1 count
3-15 but I'd take 3-12 for the arc with U-trip rules for faking and release.
I pitched an E tournament yesterday, 5 games,
and hey used 3-10 (from release) and if interpreted accurately
gives the pitcher (me) more than enough ways to change
what batters can and do do with the ball.
Nov. 30, 2008
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
I just figured out from my experience yesterday
pitching U-trip 3-10 that the arc is measured from point of release.
Point of release.
I finally get it.
A normal ASA type release is around shoulder high.
That means for a 6 foot guy
shoulder high is 5 foot and the rule allows for 10 more feet
which brings it to 15 feet from the ground.
All righty then.
And,
for the low release that I learned watching Reedus from Gekle
and others pitch at the Black Worlds this year
means that the ball when released from almost the ground
doesn't have to get any higher than waist or stomach high.
That's a very dynamic strike range
and can be used masterfully by a pitcher
who knows how to pitch
and would help dramatically in keeping batters
off balance which would more protect pitchers
from being mashed.
Nov. 30, 2008
BONES
Men's 60
93 posts
JOHN BOB---VINNY LV---Theirs 1 guy from the 50's division and 1 guy from the 55 divison and IMO are great posts.All this add a screen--- make a bigger box ----DBO this ---DBO that ----move the mound back----ban this bat---ban this ball---hit me here ball in play---hit me there your out---umpires this ---umpires that---Heck SANTO'S post is another point taken. He forgot to add---tie a mattress around the pitcher with a couple arm holes and batters fire away. Now speaking as a 60s division player only. PITCHER HAS THE OPTION TO WEAR ---face mask--helmet---chest protector---cup---shin guards---steel toed shoes---whatever he wants to protect himself---That is TOTAL PROTECTION AND TAKES CARE OF THE PITCHER SAFETY--PERIOD----Keep the game of competitive tournament senior softball as it was meant to be. Two teams battling it out between the white lines using every inch of playing field to determine the winner. No disrepect meant to anybody-----this is just my opinion as a 60sAAA/major player----I know the risk everytime i step on the field and u should to. Pitcher protective gear should always remain OPTIONAL
SB
Nov. 30, 2008
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Sonny,
Way to go.
You're involved.
You're standing in.
You're contributing.
You're a winner.
Nov. 30, 2008
4x4
Men's 65
595 posts
Think the last 4 posts pretty much hit the nail on the head.

1-The field is MEANT to be played line to line.

2-The umpires have a rule in their hands that explains the concept/basis of their call/no call. There is no need to add addendums, caveats, might haves to it. Things will only get murkier the MORE it gets refined. If a game gets decidedly ugly with purposeful hitting to hurt a pitcher I believe the umps already possess the power to deal with it, up to and including a written submitted statement if player(s) are tossed for this infraction. It's not much different than throwing a punch if purposely done.

3-The pitchers have a wide range of equipment available to them for their protection. They also have a variety of positions to pitch from, and, if given a full 12 feet to work with can be pretty darn effective. It's also incumbent upon anyone entering the pitchers box to school themselves in how to be in the best defensive position after the pitch is made. Far too many are "leading with their face" more interested in where the pitch lands than in trying to gain a defensive fielding advantage. This should be practiced with every pitch (even BP). A pitcher that fields their position well is a beautiful thing. I guarantee once that is established the hitting team will stay as far away from that fielder as possible. You don't often even see pitchers taking ground balls before the games in many instances. It's their position to field.

4-A screen, as has been discussed, is absurd. In some leagues it is used and probably correctly when you can have a 15-20 year difference between the pitcher and the hitter. Mostly what I see are balls that would be a normally quick - easy DP or caught line drive being stopped.

On one occassion I hit a ball that went between the pitcher and the screen before he could react or get back to behind the screen - so that is not any guarantee of safety either. I think it scared me more than him. Screens sometimes make the pitcher lazy defensively which helps nobody get prepared for the tournament level.

I think this debate started after one tournament was allowed to get out of hand.

If the umpires do their job and run their game accordingly most of this discussion is moot.
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