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Discussion: Rule Chaanges discussion

Posted Discussion
Dec. 18, 2008
Robo2
222 posts
Rule Chaanges discussion
I think you missed out on the point of HRs. If you understand a math term "regression to the mean" that means you take all the points and fix it so the overall points of interest (or in this case team ratings) come closer together.

Thier is absolutely no reason to have a Home Run limit at any level. It does not save time, in fact it makes innings and games longer. It does not give an advantage to strong teams, teams will be placed accordingly to their records.

Their is not one reason for limits on HRs. Even weak teams would want unlimited HRs so that the strong teams move up quicker.

Almost every game I played in this year and many in before, were shortened due to time limits. That is not what we paid for and travel for. Lengthen the time limits to 1 hour and 15 minutes.

Remember, if a team has the power to hit a lot of HRs, when the HRs are done, they still hit harder then the weaker teams, but the games are longer and the teams do not show their true potential.

If the committee is suposed to be making rules for us then try representing what we want.
Dec. 18, 2008
THE HI-JACKER
118 posts
ROBO2: Have you missed the point? Bill Ruthe & Terry H, run SS-USA, with the help of many others.
Bill, gets the changes that Bill, wants or needs for Ruthe's, teams.

All the important facts have been out there; sent to SS-USA; discussed by players & SS-USA management.Still no real change? Can I ask the question why, no changes?

In 2002-2003, the softball world was awear that there was something going on in softball. Article after article was written & reviewed by SS-USA.

Seniors for over five years have informed SS-USA, that Seniors wanted good bats & balls. SS-USA, has not spent the time or money inwhich a safe ball can be used in Senior Softball.

That ball would be a ball that had to be hit & if, that ball was miss hit, that hit ball would not be a 320 foot home run. Nothing has been done as of today. BUT, TRUMP, HAS a 52 cor ball with a 275 comp, that travels thru the infield 10-15% slower; a ball that is good in 50 to 100 degrees; what or why, is SS-USA waiting on?

BATS: Believe it or not? Senior bats are being rolled, shaved, end loaded, etc. Does SS-USA or the BAT Markers care? NO. WHY? Bat companies, sells are going up due to rolling & shaving of BATS. Data has been funded & reseached; BATS that were shaved or rolled, last for about 40 to 60 swings.

SAFTEY: Data has been out there for a few years; this data has concluded that the reasons for an 8% increase in B.B.S.; This increase in B.B.S, was caused by lighter bats, which caused an increase in BAT SPEED. FACT::: A 26 oz bat increase the B.B.S. by 3 MPH, over the same model that weigh was 28 oz.

SUGGESTIONS:
1) Starting in 2010, the 40, 50. 55, & 60 men age group should swing bats no lighter than 29 oz. Let the women & 65 divisions as is.( Swing any bat or any weight.)

2) Sometime in the 2009 season, try using the TRUMP 52 COR ball with a 275 comp. This ball should be used in the mens' 40, 50, 55, & may even need to be used in the 60's. Let the women & 65 age group & older use the present day bats & balls.

3) In 2010 or so, get rid of the SENIOR BATS, in the 40 & 50 divisions. (Might want to include the 55's?)

WHY? There are more & more teams in Senior Softball, that have gone to ILLEGAL BATS. One can believe this point or not. The younger age groups think nothing about rolling or shaving bats. To many, rolled & shaved bats are just part of the game.

Several of the young & older teams that I play on; have played aganist; practiced with; think nothing about removing pins, rolling, or shaving a bat. Sad to say, but, I know 12 or more players that use Altered Bats.

It seems that every week or so, one of my "friends" rat on team mates, etc.

In other words, more & more team have gone to playing with Illegal Bats. More & more seniors are admitting to using Altered Bats. JUST PART OF THE GAME?

T Hi-J
Dec. 18, 2008
bigred3
38 posts
Illegal bats! Oh give me the good old days of steroids.
Dec. 19, 2008
DesertDave
Men's 60
74 posts
THJ
You seem to have a lot of statistics to support your ideas. That does seem to give you some credibility. I have a problem with you knowing "12 or more players that use altered bats". I suggest that YOU are the problem. If you know people are CHEATING and do nothing, then you are just as guilty as them. I guess its a good thing you are anonymous.
Dave
Dec. 19, 2008
Lecak
Men's 55
1006 posts
DesertDave I have no idea who THJ is but how de we know what steps he is taking? From my limited understanding of altered bats as it relates to UTRIP, ISA, NSA etc. game situations dictate the ability to protest equipment not an internet website or a well placed phone call to a coach you get the point. It would be no different than taking a car making it illegal for NASCAR but not driving it in a sanctioned event. It's your car to do what you want with it until you introduce it into a sanctioned event. Let's give THJ the benefit of the doubt on this one.
Dec. 19, 2008
THE HI-JACKER
118 posts
DESERT DAVE: Thanks for that reply. If, I feel that a bat has been ALTERED, would you please tell me what I, as a player should or can do?

I believe that to protest a bat, that I must stop the game; give the T.D. $125 -$150, cash; in order to protest a bat that might be ILLEGAL?

I am speaking for myself. Players & teams that I know use ALTERED BATS, I try my best not to play on those teams.

Dave, have you ever asked any players if, they use or know players who are using ALTERED BATS?

Several years ago, there was a peroid that almost every game that I was playing in or watching, pitchers & catchers would complain to the Ump; that this bat or that bat was ALTERED. That did cause some hard feeling in Senior ball & SS-USA'S T.D.'S, got tired of all crap. Games were running farther behind & players did not want to put the $300 up to protest a bat.

As I still play against the "kids", I hear players complaining that this team or that team has several shaved bats, etc. When a 4'-10" young man that may weigh 150 lbs, hits a bomb, go figure. When I walk out to the parking lot & see B.D. selling bats. When the buzz in the stands is that so & so, is selling shave bats. What's up?

When one of my teams hit several home runs & "our" U-2s seem to make a different sound; & the other team hits four bombs & that teams U-2s, make a cracking sound; you figure out?

When Miken, Easton, & Combat reps are at the fields, ask those reps, about how many bats are ALTERED.

Ask teams or some of your friends if, your friend do know players who are using ALTERED BATS?

T Hi-J
Dec. 19, 2008
DesertDave
Men's 60
74 posts
T Hi-J
It seems I may have been a bit harsh.. If I offended you, I apologize. I don't know of anyone I play with, using an altered bat. I guess I must be living in a bubble. If altered bats are as big a problem as you say, it seems logical that eliminating the senior bats will only add to the problem.
The new HR rule may be better than anyone thought. If the big HR hitters on a team don't have any left because the 150lb second baseman just used up the last one, the teams may police that themselves.
Dave
Dec. 19, 2008
b blake
8 posts
why the 29oz bat weight, i use a 26 oz bat, i dont understand the reason behind it ,
Dec. 19, 2008
THE HI-JACKER
118 posts
DESERT DAVE: As a "power hitter", I now must change my game? Why? Because of "New Bat & Ball" technology.

What will happen to our Smash Mouth ball? Did most of us Seniors, not grow up playing S.M.?

B BLAKE: Data has been found inwhich, the lighter weigh bats, have caused an increased of 8% in B.B.S. This means that today balls are traveling thru the infield 3-5 MPH faster. Some of this Data, also, indicates that the 40 & 44 cor balls travel thru the infield 3.57 MPH faster.

There is one test studies inwhich players are given a 28 oz bat. These players are not hitting the ball over 280 feet. Then, these same player are given a 26 oz bat & these same player hit the ball over 320 feet. Both bats were the WORTH M 7/5, 2007 BAT. (N.O.W. bats.)

Data & field tests, again indicates that if, one swings a 28 oz bat, that player can increase their B.B.S., by 3 MPH, if that player drops down & uses a 26 oz bat.

Data, also, proves than End Loaded bats can increase ones bat Speed anywhere from 5-10 (%) MPH. What's next? No End loaded Bats?

T Hi-J
Dec. 19, 2008
F.O.G.
Men's 40
105 posts
I can tell you that I've seen first hand the same problems with altered bats that HIJ has. It's a problem with no easy solution. Yes the associations offer remedies and avenues of resolve, but if you don't have $100-$300 to throw away everytime you suspect a problem, that's it.

I can usually hear the shaved bats. They have a different cracking sound when hit. Or the teams who all use the same bat during a game...that's a sign.

I do think the umpires should have more to say about it. If you hear it, have them put it away....simple.

BTW-If you have to swing a shaved bat to compete, you better go find another game...there's always ping pong.....

I'm sure this will shake a few people up.
Dec. 23, 2008
Robo2
222 posts
Sorry to inform you guys but I have not missed any point. The point remains that the directors have not tried to contact ball players and when I asked them why not they say it is impossible. WRONG!

when it comes to limiting Homeruns or worse yet making them outs; only those who can not hit homeronse would think of making that rule. Also, saying the rule was made to round out the game - that is nonsense. Run a tournament where teams can choose unlimited homeruns or 3 and rest outs and see how many teams sign up for which.

Another point, when I stated more balls will be hit back at the pitcher and I was told that was false - I say WRONG. I am capable of hitting homers and if they are outs, I am not going to change my swing and hit the ball lightly. I will try to keep it down but swing hard and the best chance to get a hit is up the middle. I don't like it because I also pitch but I expect it will happen and the risk of injury to pitchers will go up as more balls are hit there; especially by the ones with the most power the homerun hitters that now can't swing for the fences because it is an out.

Bad call by all directors; who as I understand it, voted with a great majority for this change.
Dec. 23, 2008
GT
Men's 60
162 posts
Robo2, I know one tournament director that was never contacted, so can't advise how many if any. Can only say for sure, I know one. Not in favor of these rules. As a AAA team, was not uncommon to play Major Plus and / or Major teams. Don't look forward to more up the middle that already come. Have no idea how these rule changes will affect that. Only time will tell. Again, I will say, not as worried about the ball and bat as I am with field condition and weather. Sunny days with sun in your eyes or a reflection off the building behind the backstop bother me more. Hope my insurance is paid up. See a lot of you soon, mostly in Texas though.
GT
Keep an eye on the Storm-
Dec. 23, 2008
pwhewett
Men's 55
8 posts
SSUSA has the ability to send out surveys via mass emails to all of us. Whole thing can easily be arranged so the responses are handled by the computer. Before making monumental changes they can ask for feedback on issues, read them, then create a survey allowing us to "vote" on our preferences. They may then publish the results and we can talk about them further. SSUSA can also do "trials" of the suggested changes in small tournaments prior to forcing them onto everyone. Once again, conduct the trials and write up the results and opinions of those who played with them. In my region players overwhelmingly dislike the pitcher/out and HR/out rules changes. Issue shouldn't be HR but getting teams correctly seeded. Move the stronger teams up to where they belong, but keep the rankings close enough so teams moving up aren't "also-rans" when they start. Use runs scored in elimination game. Use runs scored per innings played as the criteria. A - less than 16 per 7 inning game. AA; less than 21. AAA: less than 26. Major ; less than 31. Major +: 31 plus. Really want to protect the pitcher? Use a batting screen. Anything else and you are fooling yourself or using nerf balls and/or bats. Otherwise pitcher takes his chances; maybe wears armor. I've played with the screen. Two or three balls per game the pitcher won't make a play or the batter won't get a single but surprisingly few balls actually hit the screen. Make it a dead ball foul. Our pitcher got hit in the neck last season by an unfieldable line drive; missed crushing his larynx by an inch. Personally I hate the screen but I won't forget how I felt when the guy got hit. I'd like to experiment with the screen in some small tourneys to see how it goes.
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