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Discussion: A FEW QUESTIONS for SS-USA.

Posted Discussion
Dec. 21, 2008
THE HI-JACKER
118 posts
A FEW QUESTIONS for SS-USA.
TO BILL & TERRY: I have several questions.
1) Is Little League Baseball on the decline?
2) Has Little league Baseball been on the decline for 10 years or more?
3) Has SS-USA, talked to other Regional T.D.'s, in the USA & asked this question? Is Softball in ones Region / Area, on the decline? If, so, for how long?
4) As far as Altered Bats, do these Region / Area T.D.'s, see a rise in Altered Bats? Is 50 % a true number?

I have talked to T.D.'s, young men & Seniors, thru out the South, Midwest, & West. Most will admit to the rise in Altered Bats, & some admit to using Altered Bats? The answer is .... almost all or at least 50 % of the teams are using Altered Bats. WHAT IS THE ANSWER?

If, the youth are using Altered Bats, what will happen in a few years, if, not sooner, when these younger men start playing in the over 40 division? Will Altered Bats be the norm? How many Seniors do not see anything wrong with rolling a bat?

Will SS-USA, take a stand? Or, will SS-USA, keep their head in the sand, as SS-USA, has done for the last 5-7 yeras?

Is, the answer to Altered Bats, very few Major Plus teams; make over the limit H.R.'s an out & as one ages, allow fewer H.R.'s? When will SS-USA, do the right thing?

A possible solution to Altered Bats?
1) By July of 09', all newly made Senior Bats must be made with a chip or other devise that can detect Altered Bats.
2) SS-USA, needs to buy or develope some devise to detect Altered Bats.
3) All other existing Senior bats should be "grandfathered" in until 2010 or 2011.
4) In 2010 or 2011, the women & 65 & older divisions, will not be effected.

Today, we are in hard times. During the next several years, money will be tight. There will be fewer teams traveling coast to coast. It may take 3-5 years for the economy to get back on track.

Money, travel, & the complete backwards direction that SS-USA, is starting to take; only means fewer & fewer teams & the 50, 55, & 60 Major Plus divisions, still will have only a few "real" Major Plus teams. Same as it had been for the last several years.

What will be gained when the unhappy Major teams get forced to play in the Major Plus division? How many Major teams can hit 10 H.R.'s today?

How many Major teams are able to score 5 runs more than 3 time in just one game? How many Major teams will be able to play in a division that has unlimited runs per inning? Most Major teams can not score 5 runs per inning for 4-5 straight innings, in one game. How are the majority of the Major teams going to score 5 runs 5 times per game?
That's 5 runs for 4- 5 innings & do that, for 5-7 games. I do not see that happening!

SS-USA, would you check your records for this past year? How many Major teams were able to score 7 runs or more in the open innings? How many teams scored more than 12 runs in an open inning.

Enough! I have beaten this matter to death & am sure that other havs grown tired by the last several days post.

T Hi-J
Dec. 21, 2008
wagon487
Men's 50
516 posts
hi jacker, myabe Bill and Terry could teach us all to fly!
Why would anyone alter a bat as hot as the senior bats?
And as far as you solutions, they are just plain silly.
Make a chip or a "device" by 2009 to make sure it's not altered. That sound easy and cheap. Maybe Tony Stark "Iron Man" can do that for us. Grandfather senior bats unti 2010, Talk about spending money in a tight times.
And as far as major playing up in the major plus division, it's the other way around, major plus would have to play down due to the amount of major plus teams. It's always be the case. That is five minutes I am never going to get back.
Dec. 21, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4305 posts
Wagon487,
Actually the chip thing is in fact something at least one manufacturer is working on.

But as for the rest THJ says, imo, some is out of line (the kids little league stuff) but other parts do have reality to it, (altered bats).
As for the LL the parents fund that for them for one, and for the bats, just look at any softball site and you can find it going on even u-trips own site, as well as some recognized by this assn. You can do the research, so can they. And then their is e-bay or other sites. For the last 5 years altered bats have been pulled from the Huntsman games. 2 years ago I was there when 3 were pulled.
As for rolling bats, read some comments about that that were made here...it might surprise you, it did me.
Dec. 21, 2008
wagon487
Men's 50
516 posts
taits, were senior bats used at the huntsman games?
ASA bats? I do see altered bats in ASA. Not in senior, why would you?
Dec. 21, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4305 posts
Yes on Huntsman.
Started 3-4 years ago allowing U-2
ASA? as for huntsman? yes to both. as for altered, yes.
SBfans has them it you check
Only "reason" I would think is for those not capable any other way, even IF then, to get on let alone over.
Someone here long ago said it was for an "edge", but i do not remember in which context he was using it.
In my area the city league is governed by ASA, but I had some young guys tell me that "anything" is allowed and usually, bats are not checked. If they do maybe check for a
obvious non ASA bat like a yellow Synergy or the org Crush, or Ultra.
Even in out senior league I see many non ASA bats used but most don't know one bat from another.
Dec. 21, 2008
tattooball
604 posts
As for the micro-chip I already have developed and patented the working model. It would add 2 dollars to the cost of a bat. God lets not go there I will be getting accused of ripping off all of the senior players in the country as I have been in the past. It is not worth it for me.
Dec. 21, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4305 posts
I'd call it tecno security. NOT a RIP.
Dec. 21, 2008
THE HI-JACKER
118 posts
WAGON 487: I believe that my statements were: True, but, to what degree? 1) Anaconda Sports, has developes that chip already. Easton Sports, has a bat at this time, that when rolled or gets "too hot", changes colors.
2) If, most of the younger men do use Altered Bats, what will be the norm in 5-10 years? If, so, in 5 years or so, will the 40 division be like as these men get older?
3) Starting in 2010 or 2011, all newly made Senior Bats, need to have the CHIP / or some other Anti-tampering solution. The first class of players, that start their first year in 40's & 50's, should be required to use the "new bats that have the anti-tampering".(N.A.T.= new anti-tampering)
4) In 2010 or 2011, the "N.A.T. bats", does not have to be enforced in the Women's, or the Men's 65, 70, 75, & 80 divisions.
5) Some of this reasoning is: A) Bats that have been Rolled or Shaved, will not last more than 1-2 seasons. B) If, so, than by the end of 2009-2010, the Rolled & Shave Bats will have broken. The Bats left are.........?
6) As for the grandfathering of Senior Bats, that would only apply for the older Senior Bats that were made before 2010 or 2011. The Women's program & the Men's 65, 70, 75, & 80, would be allow to use the older bats that did not have the N.A.T. SS-USA, can work out the Men's division.
Wagon & Taits, thanks for the replies.
T Hi-J
Dec. 21, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4305 posts
THj,
Your correct about the color change that RD also started about a year ago.
Wonder if it's like the Decket Jump bats I tested. When it changed color, (a redish line) as you said it get hot, it also only has about 50 swings left before it cracks open.
I think I still have one somewhere. They never made it to the stores. The most swings I got out of one was a 30 oz with about 1000 swings. A 26 only lasted 75.
Dec. 21, 2008
b blake
8 posts
T HI-J about bat weight ,my friend larry and i do hitting clinics and in three years i have not seen a single player that used a 26oz bat. i think the player has more to do with the bat speed and thus the speed of the ball coming off the bat, i have used a 26oz bat for all of my softball days(worth 510 i think it a great bat by the way) as far as altered bats i know a lot of players both senior and young who use them, i dont agree with the use of altered bat, a lot of players think that altered bats are being used , so they use them to level the playing field so to speak.
what can we do about altered bats i dont know what the answer is,and as for senior softball rules i guess we just have to live with them
Dec. 21, 2008
wagon487
Men's 50
516 posts
bottom line, why would you alter a senior bat?
Yes, I see it in asa all the time. i've even seen a demo when the new easton was rolled and saw the color change.
If everyone is using the UII or senior combat (my choice)
at least we are on a level playing field. As far as the younger division, i don't really care. We they get here, they can swing the senior bats. I used to be for banning all senior bats, now i see it as a way to keep everything on the level.
Dec. 21, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4305 posts
Why does anyone go over the posted speed limit?

To get to where ever they hope to get, faster.
But never seen to really do.
As was just posted an; edge, level (the-their perceived) playing field, a new toy, who really knows. You might want to ask one of them next time.
But I see it more prevalent amongst the younger set however, as they move up in age without being questioned, chances are they will continue the use.
Dec. 21, 2008
Ken
Men's 55
462 posts
Taits, thatís a good point. I think most of the senior players that are playing now didnít use altered bats when they were younger (maybe Iím being naÔve here, lol). I wonder if some of the younger guys who come into the organization, who are used to having that ďedgeĒ, will make the use of altered bats the norm like it seems to be now in the younger leagues and tournaments. As for senior bats, I AM in favor of them so, hopefully, we wonít have the same problem in our (senior) organizations. Why anyone would alter a senior bat is beyond me. Having said that, one of the guys I play with just bought 2 new ultra IIís, and he was told that they are supposed to be broken in right out of the wrapper. Does that mean the walls are thinner, or have they been ďadjustedĒ somehow at the factory, or is it just marketing bull? He says he wonít use them for anything but games because heís afraid they wonít last. Why are these bats different from the old versions? Are the factories now altering their senior bats to promote shorter life and increase sales? If they are that mercenary, then they have become the problem, and if there is proof of that, then the brand of bat in question should be banned from senior organizations. Maybe then they will police themselves.
Dec. 21, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4305 posts
Ken;
Id venture to say that hot out of the wrapper really depends on the user. But isn't "marketing" where it all comes from.
As for "adjusted", that could be almost anything least of which is probably using a rubber mallet. With that said this was rampert at Huntsman. The Director and I were talking in front a a partial team doing this on new bats they just bought, last year (07).
Have seen it elsewhere as well.
If not out in the open then elsewhere. Forgot the Dir's exact words for this but end result wass it's ok.
Not sure why a company woiuld make a production run of bats designed to be hot for a bit then give out. but the U-2 is about in it's 6th cycle of different models maybe more.
I hear years ago that one was made to go out but that was a few models back.
Venture to say that each year they revamp the composit material for either durability or distance. Your not going to get both & have a bat that last.
What get me is the guys who use the better bats in BP, only to essentually use hits that could have been used in a game. Why not use a simular bat weight feel in BP and save the good one for the games.
I've got 2 originals left and hardly use a u-2 anyway. Had 3 but sold one to a friend who let it make the player rounds in games and this year it broke..
Dec. 22, 2008
JackieD
2 posts
In my opinion, the best way to fix this situation of bats, is to have SSUSA go back to wood bats, for all and that they all have the " Official Softball" on them.
Dec. 22, 2008
softballer
Men's 55
560 posts
I'd go metal ones instead!
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