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Discussion: I don't care what bats are used......

Posted Discussion
Dec. 26, 2008
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
I don't care what bats are used......
but the simple truth is the easiest way to control the number of home runs his, as well as increase the safety of pitchers who either have trouble fielding the position and/or choose not to work at it nearly as hard as most probably do hitting, is to control the bats.

To need special bats not allowed by anyone else casts a pall over the senior game. To be proud of being able to do in your 50s what you could not in your 20s, all due to someone else's R & D, casts a pall over the people who play senior softball.

Ignoring those of you who would rather just automatically dismiss me than actually think what is the need for the special bats? It's not like the only other choices are wood, or XBHs. Anyone use today's Utrip bats lately?
Dec. 26, 2008
THE HI-JACKER
118 posts
DIRTY: This is a really nice post. If, one takes into account the cost to players, in order to buy New bats. Players have existing bats. The ball can be changed inwhich present day bats can be used & the safety factor increases.

Anaconda, has developed a ball for ASA. This ball appears to be a great ball for temperatures that range from 50 to 100 degrees. The comp,ression stays very close to 275, when the temperature, is in this range (50 to 100).

Best part about the 52 cor ball. This ball travels 10 to 15 percent slower in the infield. This ball & with todays present bats, will give infielders more time to react. The impact of the 52 cor ball is only about 400 to 500 PSI.

Present day balls & the ones used by SS-USA, have inpact of any where from 1900 to 2900 PSI. the AMA, has stated that an impact over 1400 PSI, can cause death.

At present, the "NEW" 52 cor ball with a 275 comp can be hit by Single, Double Wall, & Composite Bats. As far as wooden bats, one can reach the fence.

Try doing some of your own research Dirty. 8 percent of the BBS, is due to the lighter bats. Lighter bats are here to stay. Get over the use of 24, 25, 26, 27, & 28 oz Bats. The lighter bats do help the Women, Older Men, smaller & weaker players.

The 40 & 44 cor balls have never been safe. So, please, do not blame the players. Until this 52 cor ball came out; as early as 2003, SS-USA & others, knew that the 50 cor ball, was the safest ball produce.

Most players do want to see changes that help Senior Softball. Safety is important. Not changes that hurt / or change just to be different.

THi-J
Dec. 30, 2008
WOW
197 posts
I don't think anybody cares what you think. Your previous posts take away ANY credibility you had.,
Dec. 30, 2008
diehard
Men's 55
245 posts
Dirty,

I read alot of what you say. And I believe that you are very consistant in your opposition to Senior Bats, and even though we disagree, I can appreciate your candid opinions. My only problem is the research & development issue thst you always bring up. Without R & D, where would the world be? Much of the profits manufacturers make goes back into R&D, in order to bring the consumer a better product. Cars, t.v.'s, phones and much more have all changed over the years due to R & D . So if you have a cell phone, a Big screen T .V. , An S.U.V., or a laptop, then you are benefitting from R & D. So why shouldn't the Senior Softball community benefit from R & D ?
Dec. 30, 2008
4x4
Men's 65
595 posts
Because it would upset his standard line why hit bombs now when we couldn't before.

Obviously, some of us were still hitting them way back when with what the current R&D had to offer at that time.

He's imparting his recreation league player wisdom - and imparting - and imparting - and imparting - ad nauseam
Dec. 31, 2008
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
I have NO problems with R & D in any situation, but I just hope guys keep in mind that when they are doing now what many couldn't 1/2 their lives ago that it is largely due to the work of others, and not them.

Otherwise they wouldn't be so adamant about holding on to the special bats.

To clarify, I don't care what bats are used. But those who claim to care about safety while insisting on the special bats are hypocrits of the highest order.
Dec. 31, 2008
THE HI-JACKER
118 posts
DIRTY: Nice post. Starting the 2009 MLB saeson, MLB, will start new guide lines for MLB bats.
1) MLB, abopted the -3 1/2 oz rule. A 34 inch long bats, must weigh at least 30 1/2 oz; A 33 INCH LOG BAT MUST WEIGH 29 1/2 OZ; & so on.
2) MLB bat handles can be so long & must be so thick.

These rules were brought about for safey. Maple Bats were kiln dried in excess. Maple Bats, were dried too much, in order to get lighter bats. This " excesses " kiln drying, is the factor, that caused most Maple Bats to break; during the 2008 season.

KILN DRY- is a process that dried moisture, from wood. Wood has may properties. If, one takes too much water from a Bat, that Bat, becomes brittle & much easier to break.

THi-J
Dec. 31, 2008
Ken
Men's 55
462 posts
Gary, you think there's a pall cast over the game now? Letís suppose you got your way and senior bats were phased out. You HAVE to agree that the cheaters would be getting a huge advantage with their funny bats. What would you say then? You would be back on the board complaining that they are morally corrupt and someone needs to do something about it. I donít agree with many of SSUSAís policies, but this isnít one of them. Keeping the bats, while not the ideal situation, ensures that everyone gets the same advantage. If you want to see this game (senior ball) die just wait Ďtil senior bats are outlawed and see what happens. I guarantee you that the straight shooters, who refuse to compromise their integrity, would quit the game rather than allow the cheaters to have that overwhelming advantage. If you donít believe that just look at the younger tournaments and leagues. Itís ridiculous. Why not work in the area that you live to eradicate those who will ultimately be responsible for hurting someone, the bat doctors.
Dec. 31, 2008
AlleninGa
Men's 60
113 posts
Dirty, I'm curios......... Did you have the same concerns about "Homeruns" and 'Equipment" in your earlier years? I seem to remember more bat/ball related injuries in the 70's and 80's than I'm seeing in Senior tournament ball today.

Softball is not simply a pastime to most on this blog. It is a game played with a passion and a drive to compete at highest level possible with the best equipment available. We accept the risks as well as the challenge, with respect for all levels of play. There is a level of comfort and security for everyone who wishes to play the game, find yours and let us have ours. I fully respect your opinion, but I've heard scenerios like yours all of my sports life and have never agreed with "dumbing" the game down. Let "Old Race Horses Run" and if you want to play with "Sawmill Slats and Pet Milk Cans", I won't chastise you.
Dec. 31, 2008
gary#27nor.ca.storm
Men's 55
58 posts
dirty you sure have a lot to say for some one that does not play senior softball tournaments.I have talked to players that have played with you when i was at spring training last feb.and they had nothing nice to say ? something i do not know i guess.
Dec. 31, 2008
tattooball
620 posts
Not true about the injuries in the 70's and 80's. Most of the reported injuries during those years were more about field equipment. Bases with spikes caused most of the reported injuries in the game, bad field conditions were second.
As softball grew and new complexes were built they made changes to the bases and so on.

The break away base is a perfect example of technology getting better to make the game safer.

As for the bats today, the reported injuries are not up compared to the years in the past, the severity of the injury has increased. A player hit in the head with a ball in the 70,s and 80's was usually treated for a concussion. Now to today head trauma, broken bones and death is occuring.

in 1991 only 1 reported death due to an injury was reported and it was a pitcher that was struck in the chest and his heart stopped. In 2003 5 people died from being hit with a softball. 1 was a runner hit with a thrown ball, 3 were pitchers hit with a ball and 1 was a fielder hit with a ball.
Dec. 31, 2008
diehard
Men's 55
245 posts
While we can all agree that injuries are a concern to all of us who play, that is the risk that we take when we walk out on the field of play.

Trunpball, just curious. Out of the injuries that you listed, do you know if any of those injured were Seniors. And if so, then the 3 pitchers and 1 fielder that were hit, were they hit by balls coming off of a Senior bat, such as an Ultra II or a Combat?
Dec. 31, 2008
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Ken, where and when did I say that getting rid of the special bats is "my way"? I said at least twice on this thread that I don't care what bats are used, but (a) I don't get why seniors seems to need special bats and (b) if you insist on them then you don't care about pitcher safety, which is REALLY obvious.

Yes, I know there would be cheaters, though don't assume just because the special bats are now allowed that there is no cheating. After all, if I can cheat and get an edge and were so inclined why wouldn't I? How does having the special bats "ensure" that no one cheats? I don't see anyway it does.

Allen, if guys were willing to accept risks there wouldn't be a clamoring for screens/pitcher halos/if I hit a pitcher I am banned from the game forever/etc. I accept the risks, but I don't ask for any special rules like you often read about on here now.

Gary, why do I need to spend $500 on a weekend to play 4 or 5 games against perhaps 2 or 3 other teams to have valid opinions? Why do I have to be a dumb consumer to matter? Mind telling us who those players are, oltherwise you just made an empty and useless comment.

There were few bat-ball related injuries in the 70s and 80s. And honestly I don't see many now in the 100 or so games a year I play. But guys on here insist there are safety issues, and perhaps at the very highest levels where very few people play there might be, but that should not guide what the other 99% of guys do.
Dec. 31, 2008
Dbax
Men's 60
1280 posts
I pay $500 on a weekend to play 4 or 5 games because I love it. Nuff said.
Dec. 31, 2008
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
I pay 1/2 of that to play 100 games in my area because it makes more sense. I wouldn't mind paying, used to a lot, if the tournaments really meant something. But where there are so many associations and so few teams participating it is a poor value in most cases.
Dec. 31, 2008
tattooball
620 posts
No one during that year was killed with a senior bat.

To date I only know of 2 people killed with a composite bat
1 was an umpire killed a year ago in Houston, hit with a line drive in the head a week before christmas. His name was Greg Furgeson. The other was a pitcher in Michigan hit in the chest and died instantly on the field.

Over the past 6 years there have been 6 lawsuits for personal injuries due to bat or ball injuries, all have been settled or lost for over 1,000,000.00 each.
Dec. 31, 2008
THE HI-JACKER
118 posts
DIRTY: Are you feeling a great deal of hostility?

"Do you ever tell the entire truth?" No.

Dirty, face the facts. Few Seniors like you! Fewer Seniors can stand the site of you! Yes, I should not state the above.
INAPPROPRIATE & DISPARGING comments.

THi-J
Dec. 31, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
trumpball,
In 07 a guy was killed in Canada at a national tournament.
I played for a 50's Canadian team, Stafco Silver Stixx (not sure on the Stafco spelling) in st george, Ut and the mgr and I talked about injuries during one game where the sun was in most all players eyes. I do not remember the city it took place.
Dec. 31, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
Trupmball,
That may have been in 06 it happened, but I played for him in 07.
Dec. 31, 2008
angus73
Men's 50
97 posts
Back when I started playing tournament softball it was more the ball not the bat. We were using " leather" blue and red dots and sometimes a ball called a "hot dot". The bats were the single walled versions of Alu. and I saw many monster home runs and alot of runs scored. I was lucky enough to hit some when I was younger and still able to now even with the dumb downed balls and ASA bats. (leagues ) Tournaments on the other hand are a whole different deal. Players have, and rightfully so, their own bats that they want to use, as do I. There is nothing wrong with competing with friends and associates at the higest levels. This is what is avaliable to us and there is no reason not to use them.

IMO softball players and teams are ranked and there reputations are based on how well they hit. Softball is a game where everyone can, it just depends on how well.

Home run hitters and line drive hitters are just that, no matter the age. Hitting a home run with a leather blue dot and a Worth C-1 thumper then is no different than hitting one now with 375/44 ball and U2 or Combat

Have a great New Year !
Dec. 31, 2008
Joncon
289 posts
"" the simple truth is the easiest way to control the number of home runs his, as well as increase the safety of pitchers who either have trouble fielding the position and/or choose not to work at it nearly as hard as most probably do hitting, is to control the bats."""

I don't have a horse in this race but I feel the need to point out that your logic is flawed from the start.

The easiest way to control it is the ball.

Twenty teams in a tourney, 12 players on each team using 30 different bats as opposed to one single ball.

Do the math.

If you want to use them, they make balls that limit the original Ultras to 200'
Jan. 1, 2009
diehard
Men's 55
245 posts
Anyone who has played in Manassas, in the past several years can tell you just what will happen if you deaden the balls so that the U II will only hit the ball 200 ' . Attendance will drop and teams will go elsewhere! That is the reason that this year the tournaments in Salem, Manassas and Virginia beach will now allow the use of the U II and all other Senior bats. If SSUSA adopted the rule that would allow the use of balls when hit by a U II to only travel 200', the organization as a whole would die off as the official governing body of Senior Softball! In this country, majority rules, and the vast majority of Senior Softball players support the use of Senior bats!! Pitchers can choose to use safety equipment such as face masks, chest protectors and shin guards to protect themselves, and I have seen some who have chosen to do that and it does not hinder their delivery or fielding at all.
Jan. 1, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
If all guys are interested in doing is seeing how far they can hit a ball, why now just change the sport to a series of long-distance contests? Why bother the charade of trying to play actual games, or the bastardized form of games this is turning into?
Jan. 1, 2009
bohack
13 posts
Dirty, Go play clincher ball you will be happy there.
Jan. 1, 2009
4x4
Men's 65
595 posts
Gary - go play in your vaunted LEAGUE games.

If you want to contribute to this board and if a team will have you = come out and play tourney ball.

For you the deal and all the responses should be the same.

To wit:

Gary - put up or shut up
Jan. 1, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
I remember working on a construction crew in Santa Barbara
in the early 90's and the supervisor on my crew got to pick the radio station.
He picked the one Rush Limbaugh was on.
I would rather he picked an R&B channel but there I was
having to listen to his program everyday.
I remember hearing him say in response to a lady that caught him
saying something contradictory to what he's said days earlier
that he was first and foremost, an entertainer
who was primarily interested in boosting his ratings
rather than being attached to anything he said or believed.
This is how he was making his name/living and I got it.
How else could he be so outrageously controversial and wrong almost all of the time.
He had and has made it his "loud arbitrary often wrong to outrageous manner
into an art form.
At best,
this is what Dirty Gary is and has become.
He doesn't mean anything about what he says or "doesn't do".
He's an unqualified buffoon just like Rush Limbaugh
and out only to maintain a place with us
at virtually any cost.
Too bad Gary wasn't in Radio.
He might have made a living off being obnoxious and loud.

The point being.
If you ascribe ANY meaning or belief to ANYTHING Gary has to say
you would be over-estimating him and his value to ANY of us.
And if he were being honest with all of us
as he has intimated to me
he'd be the first to agree.
Jan. 1, 2009
the wood
1085 posts
RE: Pitcher safety, 1.2 bats or not, the type of ball, HR rules, teams moving up or not, etc.
I find it extremely puzzling that there are so many contradictions in these subjects.
Pitcher safety - essentially it takes a back seat to 'our need' to use 1.2 bats. We're willing to put erector sets on the field, raise the pitching arc to 20', ban batters, etc... all of which seem to have a drastic effect on the game but the option to lessen the bat/ball combination is not viable? Gee, how did we ever play the game before SSUSA (and other assns) allowed 1.2 bats?

# of HRs and whether they're outs or not - make the pitching rules more liberal, '1 up', singles thereafter, etc... again, using a decreased ball/bat combo is not viable?

moving teams up - making the M+ rules very similar to M rules will 'encourage teams to move up'. Really? We'll see.

4X4 - If Dirty shows up and plays (presumably to your satisfaction), would his opinion then be valid? I'm referring to his opinion expressed within this thread... are you not the same guy that consistently implores folks to ignore him? Why then, would you post on a thread that he initiated?
THJ - have any of your posts ever contained inappropriate and/or disparaging comments? I know that some of mine have, which puts me in a poor position when it comes to criticizing another person for actions similar to mine.
'Let he that is without sin cast the first stone'... I believe that I read this somewhere.
C'mon guys, we can express ourselves without going overboard. If we can't, perhaps we don't belong on here.

If safety is an issue (and a high priority) why wouldn't we consider safer equipment?

Einstein - you have stated that M+ players don't want 'outs after HRs' and I believe that the majority of them will agree with you. At the same time, you state that a higher pitching arc would be the solution. I'd venture to say that most M+ guys would not like that.

I haven't liked playing ASA rules over the past few years. Not because of the rules themselves but because fewer teams would show up. We also like to hit with 1.2 bats but would still play without them, if safety truly is the paramount concern. We're also open to a ball that allows HR hitters to hit them but not guys w/ 280' power... if this ball promoted safety. We're not into objects on the field, banning hitters (except for illegal bats), 20' arcs, etc. The exception to this would be using a safety screen in pre-season stuff when pitchers are facing into the sun.
In short, we love the game and would like to keep it as close to its long term elements as possible. Having played for 40 years, I do not recall using any of the aforementioned gimmicks and would give up on 1.2 bats before considering any of them.
We = GSF and other players that we have discussed these things with...
BW
Jan. 1, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Joey, aren't you due to make another inane bat/ball combo post? I think you are past your 6 hour limit.

Wood, with apologies to you and a few others who might accidentally get lumped in with this collection of characters, the average IQ on this board must be 85. You guys simply have NO comprehension.
Jan. 1, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Woody.
Happy New Year.
Yes to everything you say but
the old game you keep referring to when it was right or at it's best
used a lively ball to insure enjoyment and satisfaction for us, the members.
The new movement is to go down way past the good bat/ball combo
we used to enjoy, not just to where it was once valued and good.

We should make a stand, help SSUSA and others adopt a standard
below which we won't go or else
we will have to put up with not be able to hit the ball
satisfyingly hard to invest in and enjoy playing.

I thought Fran and Dave last year did that saying they wouldn't allow
SSUSA to fall below the good 44x375 ball/1.2 bats.
Now, their considering going below that standard
and I think we need to remind them that we won't continue to invest
if they deny us fundamental enjoyment in our game.

We've made lots of minor adjustments to senior ball
to make it fairer, safer and more enjoyable.
We don't have to go back to pre-historic softball times, i.e.
wooden bat and web-less gloves
to enjoy ourselves, do we?
Jan. 1, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Now I feel better. I knew you were due.

You could have some manners and thank me for the reminder. I am sure when I get near your age I will forget things too. LOL
Jan. 1, 2009
the wood
1085 posts
Einstein:
I should have never mentioned to Softballer4B the 'Northern White Ash comment. While I did like the game 40 years ago (wooden bat era), my appreciation for it has been much greater in all of the years since then. I would have to say that I honestly feel that the 'right now' is a pretty good game and my 'personal enjoyment index' is as high as ever.
So, no, we don't have to revert back 40 years. I am a proponent of keeping the 1.2 bats as long as safety allows it.
Happy New Year to you as well...
Dirty:
You may have been too high with your IQ comment and you shouldn't have excluded me... at times, many of us act as though our fifth grade weight would exceed our current IQ...
Twins25:
This would still make you an 'off the charts' genius.
;-)
BW
Jan. 1, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
I didn't want to get accused of making disparaging remarks. LOL
Jan. 1, 2009
THE HI-JACKER
118 posts
DIRTY: In the last 5 days or so, almost 50 post by you, Dirty, have been deleted.

Disparaging comments directed toward any individual, is the main reasons, for ones deleted post. This also, includes rude & insulting remarks. Even ones directed toward .......

Dirty, from your last post: "the average IQ on this board must be 85. You guys simply have NO comprehension." Add to this, the arguring & insults directed to Joe, is why, Dirty, your post get deleted.

The only bad part about this, sometimes, post by others that are in good taste, also, get deleted, because of you (Dirty.)
THi-J
Jan. 1, 2009
4x4
Men's 65
595 posts
Bob -

Sometimes I admittedly get tired of his narrow minded tirades based on his "experience". His "game" isn't softball, it's using softball as a platform to be an infant terrible board terrorist.

We all know that even in the best of leagues you might get a strong team with up to 5 or 6 good tourney players participating. Some do it to keep their skills greased up and some simply to share the game with those aspiring to get batter or simply playing to help the enjoyment for all concerned, sharing the sport as ambassadors so to speak.

The crux of the message to Gary is simply put up or shut up.

If he wants to be relevant let him participate with something other than his mouth/keyboard and bad attitude.

Pete
Jan. 1, 2009
diehard
Men's 55
245 posts
I don't understand why the games are referred to as homerun hitting contests. I play 55 major. In most games that are played the homerun limit is 3 and 1 up. A game is 7 innings long. The minimum number of batters in a 7 inning game is 42. If both teams hit their 3 homerun limit, and only 42 players hit in that game ( which never happens ) that is 6 homeruns out of 42 @ bat. That still leaves 36 players in the game who cannot hit home runs. That is not a homerun hitting contest ! If a team gets all 3 homeruns in the 1st inning, they must keep the ball in the park the rest of the game if the other team dosn't hit any home runs. So R & D is a phony issue, homerun hitting contests, phony issue, so the only legitimate issue you have is safety. And as I said before, if the pitcher uses protective equipment there will be less issues there. This isn't Rocket science, it's softball. Also, we have a very competitive wooden bat league in our area. I have played in it. Ther are many men who play in the wooden bat league that prefer it over non- wooden bat leagues, some who play in both and others such as myself who prefer non - wooden bat leagues. It's all a personal preference, play where you want. Be happy your still playing, If playing makes you happy!
Jan. 1, 2009
Lecak
Men's 55
1012 posts
Bob W. I was trying to pick through your statements would I be reading correctly that equipment is not a showstopper. I have spoken to a number of players also and teams and the prevailing thought is too get participation up in some of the divisions not the equipment being used.

A number of us in Las Vegas have been hitting the "new ball." I think the ball would be just fine for the 40's 50 Major plus and 50 major. Leave the ball 44/375 for all others.

My opinion and I believe an educated one given the number of swings we have taken with these balls. The ball is clearly slower though the infield and travels real well when a good technical swing is applied.
Jan. 1, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Joe.
Happy New Year.

Slower through the infield but NOT the outfield?
Explain some more, would you.
And who are the other guys hitting with you.
I'd like to be able to get their input, too.

Technical swing, eh.
I haven't had a technically correct swing since little league
but then again neither did Henry Aaron, or Clemente, Frank Howard or Yogi Berra.

So, singles hitting guys or what players would want to do when/if HR's are limited
and/or outs would be significantly challenged with the new balls
in not being able to get a lot of pace on the ball.
Batting averages/on base percentages will go down, too.
Significantly less runs scored, too.

Doesn't sound like fun to me and certainly not what we're both accustomed to
and deserve in senior ball.
Jan. 1, 2009
butch17
Men's 55
415 posts
Einstein

Just curious do you enjoy the 60 to 20 three inning games or the 25 to 24 seven inning games. Billy K and Pick want to know when your coming back to In. to hit?
Jan. 1, 2009
Lecak
Men's 55
1012 posts
Joe Happy New Year from me and Rose. The players I'm hitting with are Stoney, big Hank and Imlay. I specifically mentioned slower through the infield because as you know I'm a first baseman and quite frequently I have been encouraged to get my medical and life insurance up to date, although I haven't received a serious injury in 20 Plus years at first suddenly I'm currently in eminent danger. You have to remember Joe over the last 10 years or so from D to A HR limits were enforced and I still haven't received a significant injury from a ground ball. Obviously it will react the same through the OF. To me a technical swing is keeping the hands back, getting the wight moving forward and a good snap with the hands you would agree that a good technical swing is still required to hit the 44/375. I would agree with you on runs, averages, etc except for the 40's 50 major plus and 50 major. Guys who can hit them will continue to and guys who can't won't. If the idea is to allow every single senior player to hit HR's at these three age and skill levels I got to think that one over. I think introducing any change to equipment would be a show stopper for the other age groups and divisions other than the 3 I mentioned. At the 3 levels I mentioned hopefully you and I can respectfully disagree. This new ball is not for the faint of heart and may allow for the training wheels to be taken off these three divisions. I'm fine with whatever ball is used it will not cause me to consider quitting, the lack of teams attending tournaments will drive me out of the game. The tournament experience i had at the Vegas Winter worlds was the worst I've had in the last 20 years no teams to play both teams were clearly an afterthought. I hope 2009 is a healthy one for you.
Jan. 1, 2009
THE HI-JACKER
118 posts
JOE: What are you, Joe, not reading? The safety issuse might be answered with a different ball. If, SS-USA & the Bat companies, have known that the 40 & 44 cor balls are unsafe; that the 47 & 50 cor balls are safer balls.

Fact: A 44 cor ball with a 375 comp, travels 11 feet farther than a 47 cor ball with a 375 comp. This 44 cor ball has an impact of 1400 PSI, what is the impact of the 47 cor ball?

The AMA, impact over 1200 PSI, causes massive / deaths.

Fact: The 44 cor ball, has an impact of 1400 PSI.
What is the impact for a 47, 50 or 52 cor ball that
has a 375 comp? Which is the safer BALL?

The present ball, a 44 cor ball with a 375 comp, is a ball that appears, to be the right ball. This ball should remain in the Men's 60, 65, 70 & 75. The 44 cor ball with a 375 comp, should also, remain in 55's. This is a "real" question.

The 40's & Men's 50 Major & Major Plus, the 52 cor ball with a 275 comp, again, might be the safer ball?

Joe, SS-USA, did a Major Plus survey. Why, has SS-USA, not done a Ball Survey, in the past?

Will a 50 cor or 52 cor ball, with a 375 comp, travel as far? less? ( compaired to the 44 cor, 375 comp ball) What is the impact of a 50-52 cor, 375 comp ball?

THiJ
Jan. 1, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Jack,
You're the expert on which ball would be best.
No problem here.
It just has to deliver the kind of results we're looking for.

Hey Joe,
Where you going with that bat in your hand?
There's been too much changing and tampering with our equipment
over the last couple of years
and always more money to be made selling new stuff to us.
I'm both suspicious and done.
Plus, I want to have fun smacking the ball hard and far.

I'm giving away the best part of my game...
defense.
A slower ball is gonna make me and my defensive philosophy more valuable
and prominent.
Yet,
it's being able to hit the ball well and hard that signals enjoyment for the most of us.
I've heard so much belly-aching and complaining about balls/bats
and tournament directors over the last couple of years
I can't take it anymore.
Good ball/bat combo or bust.
And we don't have to have new equipment to do it.
Jan. 1, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Jack,
You should ask Joe Lecak, Stoneman, Imlay and Hank
because they've been hitting that new ball
and they would know how it compares with 375x44 ball.
From what I've been able to glean from things said, done
unsaid and undone (between the lines) is that the ball
doesn't cut it.
I'll email Imlay and Lecak and get some info from them.
Stay high, Jack.
Jan. 1, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Was I mistaken Joe or did we attend a 26 or 28 team major tournament
in Phoenix this year that was the most attended and competitive
tournament of the year?
I didn't see a problem.
Let the Mavericks and whomever play with the Major guys.
They don't and won't hit any better than Geckle and they finished 10 or so.
And 5 run innings and equalizer will keep almost all the games close.
Look at how close all the games we played/won were
coming back in the losers bracket.
I'm worried Joe.
Our game doesn't have and shouldn't change down.
ISSA and others are going toward good 44x375 balls and 1.2 bats
not away from it, in order to ensure enrollment.
Jan. 2, 2009
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
Mr. Einstein... wider home plates, bigger pitching rubbers, increasing arcs, shutting down the middle ...all changes that you have proposed in order for you to continue to hit home runs, thereby massaging your ego ... No, thank you!
Jan. 2, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
That just about sums it up.
Jan. 2, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Ding, ding, ding.
Damage control.
Gotta protect the investment.
Don't you, boy.
And Dirty Gary Sommers agrees with you.
'Nuff said.
Jan. 2, 2009
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
Protect the investment?... I don't have an investment to protect ... I just hope you keep your vision of senior softball in your neck of the woods.... I prefer my softball to be as unadulterated as possible.
Jan. 2, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Old man, who are you calling boy?
Jan. 2, 2009
Lecak
Men's 55
1012 posts
Joe (Einstein) yes a great tourney the best senior tourney I've attended. You and I both agree that just having the major plus absorbed into the major division is I would think most current Major plus teams would love this. I happen to be in the Bob Woodroof camp that most major teams would have a problem with this solution. If you read the stuff on here major plus teams are seen as some other worldly feats with unlimited funds and access to any player they want. Quite a stereotype. As to your other question I have no idea who or how to get a hold of THJ.
Jan. 2, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Joe,
If Woody's team is really better than some 50 major team
from South Queensland that they should prevail.
Major plus is more mindset and confidence than actual ability.

Put major and major plus together
equalize the home runs at 1.
5 run innings
and 10 run limit last inning.
HR's after the limit walks, no push,
3-12 from point of release
USSSA faking
1-1 count, no fouls
widen the plate and pitchers rubber
good Dudley 44/375 balls/1.2 bats
and let's play ball and have some fun.

More major, AAA guys are free, less disciplined swingers than Major plus
who have more studied, technically correct swings.
Free. less disciplined swingers will do well with 1-1 count, no fouls.

Result.
Everyone can play everyone. be compeitive, be safe. hit the hell out of the ball
and have a blast.
Jan. 2, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
When the plate has to be widened to accommodate the special bats it is time to abolish the game. Ridiculous.
Jan. 2, 2009
THE HI-JACKER
118 posts
DIRTY: You just can't keep your big mouth shut, can you? Any post by Joe, insures that you, Dirty, will make another rude, insulting , off the wall, & uncalled remark

I bet that two post, will get deleted today.

Dirty, o mighty one, please, tell this Message Board, what to do. O wise & all knowing one, last year, SS-USA, did widen the plate 2 inches.

When will you, Dirty, leave this poor Seniors Message Board? One of Dirty's, latest post: "When the plate has to be widened to accommodate the special bats it is time to abolish the game. "

O.K., but, first, please Dirty, leave. Many have stop posting Dirty. Why? Because of you Dirty.
THi-J
Jan. 2, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hi-Jack,
I feel you're pain.
We all feel you're pain.
But SSUSA doesn't seem to get or care
that he mocks all of us
all the time.
He means none of what he says
and we know he's willing to do nothing about what he says.

Get this, Jack 'cause you're missing this guy's message.
He likes messing with people and he's found
the soft underbelly of the SSUSA thanks to a weak
and/or uncaring administration.
Too bad for all of us.
I like Fran and Dave a lot.
Terry's OK, too but something's NOT happening over there.
They seem to miss important stuff that's going on in and around us,
where we're ooming from, what we want/need.

Rumor has it Bill Ruth dictates to them what HE wants
irrespective of anything or anyone else.

Don't kill the messenger but a lot of folks feel this way.
Jan. 2, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Ever notice you respond often, and directly, to me far more than I do to him? Probably not, that would be far beyond you.

No "einstein", I only mock you as a one-trick pony that the SSUSA clearly does not care about the opinion of. See any rule changes to give you what you want? No, I don't either.

You have no idea what I mean, heck you only have a very few ideas of your own that you incessantly post to the disinterest of the governing body.
Jan. 2, 2009
THE HI-JACKER
118 posts
DIRTY: For many of us, Dirty, you are lower than whales crap in the deepest oceans.

So, stupid Dirty, Joe, is very happy with the old rules. Keep the games as the game was last year.

Get this dump ass; most Seniors want a good bat & ball combination & to enjoy the game of softball. If, not, many Seniors will stop or play close to home.

This also, includes, never having to read any more of your crap, Dirty, or my rude remarks; because, almost everyone understands that Dirty, is a trouble maker with no ability.

Stuff It Boy..... THi-J
Jan. 2, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
For the thousandth time, I don't care what balls and bats are used. I play for competition. But if you insist on special bats just don't claim you care about safety.


And once again, you respond directly to me.
Jan. 2, 2009
THE HI-JACKER
118 posts
DIRTY: My respond to you, Dirty. If, one reads my past post, a person, that has the ability to comprehend, reason, remember, etc; & Dirty, you appears not able to comprehend, the following:
1) Light bats, caused BBS to increase 8 percent. Players never allow the bat companies, to stop making the 24, 25, 26, 27, 27, 28, or 29 oz bats. Why? Seniors want to see more runs, higher B.A., & hit Home Runs.

2) Todays SS-USA'S, ball is not safe. The present ball has an impact of over 1800 PSI. Will SS-USA, ever spend the money, or try to find a safe ball that if impact happens, will be below 800 to 1000 PSI? This ball, must still be hitable & not a sock.

3) Impacts over 1200 -1400 PSI, will caused massive damage to humans, & or death.

4) SS-USA, why or when, will SS-USA, make Bat companies, install a chip or other anti-tampering devise? This will stop the Rolling, Shaving, & Vising of bats.

5) Will SS-USA, ever rid Seniors of Bats that, when Bats do break in, do not exceed the 1.20 BPF? No, players want to hit bombs.

6) Can SS-USA, allow players to use the present day bats & balls & still give players safety? Answer........ No.

THi-J
Jan. 2, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Jack,
You're the man.
Only on the last point I think 2 things:
If there was no danger we'd call lawn bowling
(no guts no glory)
and
there are other ways to make injury from batted balls
less likely.
Jan. 2, 2009
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
Foul on Mr. Einstein for excessive use of the word "we" ... please speak for yourself.
Jan. 2, 2009
Mango
Men's 50
90 posts
Hey Joey,
Mango here. My suggestion is to use the same balls they used at SPA. You needed to hit it to hit a homerun. Anytime guys like Larry Tate (AKA Don Newhard = AKA ďPowderĒ) can hit a ball 300 feet something is wrong J. The game scores at SPA were good (in the 20ís and 30ís) and there were no cheap homeruns. The situation in Vegas was ridiculous. Guys that have no business hitting homeruns were hitting them. I hit a walk off game winner off the hands (that should have been an out) that I still feel embarrassed about. Something should be done about the cheapened homerun and the balls are the easiest way to control it.

As far as Major teams moving up being competitive- the 5 or 7 run rule always keeps it close regardless of the home run rule. In Phoenix in the seeding games all our games were close. We didnít run away from teams until the tournament part where we were allowed unlimited runs. In fact we had to go to extra innings to beat one team in the seeding game and then beat the same team by 30 in three innings with the open inning rule.

Wood- ďat times, many of us act as though our fifth grade weight would exceed our current IQ... Twins25:This would still make you an 'off the charts' geniusĒ.
I love how you never miss an opportunity to bring Galvin into the mix.:)

Happy New Year to All

Mango
Jan. 2, 2009
Stretch14
Men's 50
186 posts
If you don't like the rules, play another sport.
Jan. 2, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Dave,
Happy Holidays.
Good post.

I and most others didn't like the balls at SPA.
Ridge has gotten rid of the ball manufacturer he was so upset
and's going with another company for 2009, I've heard.
If they give the pitcher a little more to work with
you big guys won't have as easy a time of it,
I promise you.
My leg and arm are getting better all the time
and I can't wait to have another crack at you guys.
The level of play that you guys have established
now gives us something to shoot for and at.
Nothing like dethroning a champ.

If they limit runs per inning at 5
Have an equalizer at 1 for home runs
Have over the limits home runs be hits(no push)
Any good good team can give you a run
for your money regardless of how many you hit over the fence.
We play like this all the time in NCSSA
as I've said before and have terrific local tournaments.

Say hi to Bull, Mickey, Ray and Turbo for me
and I hope to see you guys on the field next year.

Is Joe Cuneo going to play with you (Courtesy) next year?
Great guy, terrific hitter and best 3rd baseman I've ever played against.
Jan. 3, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
#19, he has deluded hiimself into thinking he speaks for a "majority" of senior players. I ask him for documentation of his survey that allows him to make this allegation, but alas I get nothing.

If the balls are the answer, why do so many refuse to play where the Ultra is banned?
Jan. 3, 2009
diehard
Men's 55
245 posts
Dirty,
You sir, are the one that is deluded!!!! If you think that players refuse to play ball because of the use of the U II or any other Senior bat, Then it is you who are in the minority. You don't know how many participants show up because you don't show up yourself! I have read your points of view on many subjects about softball and the senior game. Some of your points are valid. But most seemed to be hate filled diatribes about certain individuals and Senior Softball itself. This message board is a message board for those of us who do play and participate in Senior Softball tournaments. You seem to be nothing more than a little dog who keeps nipping at the heels of the bigger dogs, just to get attention. It's like you're saying "Hey, hey, look at me, pay attention to me, I don't play the game but I want my opinion to matter to those who do." Please, get a grip on reality, you sir a the one who is deluded!!!!
Jan. 3, 2009
THE HI-JACKER
118 posts
DIRTY: If, you Dirty, do not play Senior Ball, why, would you Dirty, care what happens to Seniors Ball? Also, Dirty, why should anyone answer one of Dirty's, questions, when you Dirty, will not & have not answered questions, directed to Dirty?

Comprehension- the ability to grasp - remember material that a person has just read or heard. Another trait, that Gary, is lacking in.

DOCUMENTED FACTS: ( Material from bat & bat testing labs; Data, that has been posted by SS-USA.)
1) 40 cor balls travel 3.57 MPH faster thru the infield & travel 11 to 12 feet farther than a 47 cor ball.
2) Balls that have been used in testing bats, were found to be out of spec. These "hotter"balls, did cause bats that were rated at 1.10 BPF, to exceed the allowable 1.20 BBF.
3) Until this past year, the safest balls were the 50 & 47 cor balls. The 40 & 44 cor balls are hard balls & it is almost impossible to produce a six sided 40 or 44 cor ball that is 40 or 44 cor, on all six sides.

Gary, the bats are made & many Seniors have several bats. Changing the ball would be cheaper. In 3-5 years, once most bats broke, ....... This line of thinking is a waste of time.

THi-J
Jan. 3, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
If I have been mistaken all along, I apologize. But where is it written that you must be in the very small percentage of senior players who play tournaments to post?
Jan. 3, 2009
diehard
Men's 55
245 posts
Dirty Gary,

If the percentage of Seniors playing tournaments is so small, then why are you so hell bent on changing it if you represent the majority of opinion?
Jan. 3, 2009
THE HI-JACKER
118 posts
DIRTY: Why are you Dirty, trying to arguring again?

Most post on this SS-USA Message Board, are by tournament players. Players that have questions; ones that in most cases post, are sent in a manner, that SS-USA, consider to be positive; post that are helpful; post that are not meant to be rude or insulting, etc.

Gary, that last post, was a question; that post was not belittering, rude, mean, insulting, snide, scornful, or derogative. In other words, NOT disparaging.

Happy New Year
THi-J
Jan. 5, 2009
hitt2
354 posts
Die hard
Great question to Dirty, but you wonít get an answer. His is to instigate and belittle those that voice opinions about the game we play and love. Iím not a Major Player; however the bats the balls arenít an issue for me. 16 team or 4 team bracket I show to play who ever the best competition is that weekend. There are little twist to the rules, due to local municipality having liability concerns. We find these things out when we get to the tourney, but still we play. In Dirtyís world an accommodation is evil. If you use a bat that is designed for senior softball it is a ďspecial batĒ. I buy whatís legal to use and fit my budget. I donít use U2ís I like Combat line of bats presently. In the past I owned Worth, Louisville and still have my 32 ounce Howard furniture bat from the late early80s.
He without knowing a person makes assumption about there skill level, ďbeing able to do what they couldnít when youngerĒ. He makes generalities about those of us on the west coast because our opinions differ. He forgets it is alright to disagree, but makes everything personal.
Hi Jacker
Your comments have merit from your position, but attempting to get Dirty to change isnít worth it. To get him to go away he needs to be ignored.
Einstein
He sure likes pushing your buttons by jumping on all of your threads, to provoke you. Ignore him. Your effort on the field and passion for the game are known. Arguing with an unhappy idiot to make a point solves nothing. If the tools arenít there for constructive dialogue it will transform you into him.
sorry for the lenghty thread. Lets get back to a positive sharing of ideas to enhance our game.
Jan. 5, 2009
diehard
Men's 55
245 posts
hitt2,

I don't think your post was lenghty, and it was right on the money, good post!
Jan. 6, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
ONCE AGAIN, the bats and balls are not an issue for me either. Then again, I don't profess to care about pitcher safety while insisting that the special bats are used.

And yes, they are "special" bats only to be used by guys over 50. How much more special can you get? I know they are here to apparently stay, and the is fine with me, but to need special bats that no one else can use is silly.
Jan. 6, 2009
hitt2
354 posts
Die Hard
Thank you.
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