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Discussion: rating teams check history

Posted Discussion
Jan. 1, 2009
Gary Heifner
248 posts
rating teams check history
I think the guys at SSWC do the best they can at rating teams. The problem is the "RING WHORES". The managers and players who keep changing rosters and players at will from tourney to tourney and season to season in order to win a ring. Before re-rating a team, I hope the guys look at a teams history and roster. My team has been together for 7 years with only minor changes do to as when we moved up in age groups we had to leave sevral guys behind and find replacements. We have established a definate history as to our rating. If the ring whores would show some loyalty to their guys it would certainly help in keeping the competiton fair, At the 60AA level last year, I only saw 2 teams that were obviously AAA level talent, It was a pretty fair all year. I will say that I have little sympathy for the Major + guys. Of the few M+ teams that I have some knowledge of their players, I know they were hand picked and are great players. Sometimes you have to sleep in the bed you make. It somehow seems unfair to have to readjust a lot of teams in senior softball because of a few loaded teams and now they have only a few teams to play.
Jan. 1, 2009
the wood
1087 posts
The reason that all divisions are being impacted is because they are 'Ring Whores', as you phrased it, in AA-M+ divisions. How could there be some in M+? They're the teams that either get moved down to M or that only play in M+ events where none of the top teams will be.
The SSUSA response to this cannot be fairly pinned on the M+ division.
You say the M+ division is full of great players. It has its share, no doubt, but it's really made up of some great players, some very good ones and many role players that probably wouldn't dominate the AAA level. The Old A's and Turn Two have dominated the 55 and 60 M+ levels for different periods of the past 8 years. Neither was filled with great players but both have the balanced composition previously mentioned. MTC 55 has a lot of great players as do the Mavericks and Hendricks (both 50 M+). They are the exceptions. not the rule.
SSUSA is only one third of the ratings committee. By and large, they do a credible job but there ought to be players/managers representation involved. It is the exceptions that slip through the cracks that folks most remember.
BW
Jan. 1, 2009
jah#4
Men's 55
551 posts
Bob
Maybe we have to go with somw type of rating the player a little better, Last year I saw Major players playing in AA and a couple of Major + Player in AAA. Like we have talked about these players are mostly role player but they played on a M+ team
Don Ward
Kittrell softball
Jan. 1, 2009
grumpy55
Men's 60
102 posts
I have also seen the same situation as far as players playing down 2 divisions. This might have been brought up in the past, but why not color coded cards for each class?
Jan. 1, 2009
butch17
Men's 55
415 posts
Gary.

I take offense to your comment about Major+ teams. I play (use this term loosely), with Travelodge 55. We have had the same basic group of players for years. We have been fairly successful because we have a team of good players that like and trust each other both on and off the diamond(not to mention the wives like each other). We have won a ring or two and hope to win a few more. I will Not say I'm sorry for our team playing hard to win National Tourneys and if that makes me a "RING WHORE" so be it. The SSWC is not picking on any division they are trying to level the playing field for over a million sftball players not just a few. You should be happy with the changes they may control those RING people.
Butch
Jan. 1, 2009
butch17
Men's 55
415 posts
I do agree there are some teams that have a lot of money to spend go out and recruit a certain type of player but that happens in the Major level too not just Major+. Hope you have a successful and fun year. This game we love so much is supposed to be enjoyed win, lose or draw. I have said and still believe that its the friendships we make with other players and coaches around the country that makes senior softball so great and enjoyable.
Jan. 1, 2009
Lecak
Men's 55
1012 posts
I know nobody cares about this but the rating of players probably works real well at 55 and above because the players have been in the system what about new players. As a 50 something I am scouting the 40 something crowd. As a matter of fact I am staying very active with the local 40 team we have scouting players etc. Number two from the players and teams I have spoken too the number of teams or lack thereof is the critical feature, equipment standards almost never comes up as a topic. I'm sure i will be corrected here somewhere but what happens if my age group gives up entirely on the idea of a major plus division. Would it be a stretch to say that the 55 and 60's (not as configured today) but in a matter of a few years suffers the same fate, just saying. Where do the myriad of good late 40's players go? SSUSA created this division and it is taking dead aim on the dominance of ASA, there better be a plan. Maybe leave the 55 and 60 alone at the major plus level and concentrate the move ups or move downs to the 50 age group only. I've heard alot of that is the way it has always been in private conversations that may not be good enough at least for me. If I'm a typical softball consumer for my age group 2009 should be a really interesting year if I'm not then I'm just creating background noise. To Gary Heifner do you really honestly believe that these players on your so called super teams will not play somewhere. In Vegas in November there were 9 major teams and we saw 10 Major plus players that played on major plus teams last year on the field that is over 10%. These guys are sleeping in your bed and soiling in it.
Jan. 2, 2009
WOW
197 posts
All Terry and co. would have to do is enter all players into a data base [they already have individual ID #'s for all of us], then rate teams according to who is on each of these teams. Too bad they don't know the amount of discontent that is really out there. I know several teams that no longer will attend any SSUSA tourn. because of the imbalance that currently exists.
Jan. 2, 2009
doker
Men's 60
168 posts
HEY GUYS DOKER HERE FROM 60AA.....I BELIEVE THEY DO A REALLY GOOD JOB OF RANKING THE TEAMS ESPECIALLY IN THE AA AND AAA DIVISIONS........WE DID WELL AT THE WESTERN NATLS 2ND...THE WORLD CHAMP AT PHOENIX..2ND AGAIN...AND VEGAS IN NOV...5TH OF 9 TEAMS.....ALL THE GAMES WERE CLOSE AND COMPETITIVE WE ACTUALLY BEAT THE TEAM THAT WON THE TOURNEY IN THE PRELIMS.......SINCE DAVE HAS TAKEN OVER THE RANKING PROCESS THE TEAMS HAVE BEEN MUCH MORE COMPETITIVE..CUDOS TO HIM!!!!...THE IDEA OF RANKING THE PLAYERS IS NOT THE ANSWER AS 1 OR TWO SUPER PLAYERS ON A TEAM DOES NOT ALWAYS MAKE FOR A WINNING COMBINATION..ESPECIALLY SOME PLAYERS THAT ARE JUST HITTERS NOT HOMERUN HITTERS....THAT IS WHAT SEPARATES AAA FROM MAJOR OR MAJOR PLUS...AND THERE IS MUCH MORE DEFENSE IN AAA THAN MAJOR OR MAJOR PLUS....SOMETIMES THAT VERY GOOD PLAYER WANTS TO PLAY WITH FRIENDS AT HOME..NOW SHUD HE BE PUNISHED OR THE TEAM PUNISHED CAUSE THEY HAVE ONE MAJOR PLAYER ON THEIR TEAM...WHO MAKES THEM BETTER BUT NOT SUPER....NO....I SAY AS LONG AS THEY ARE COMPETITIVE IN THEIR DIVISIONS THAT IS WHATS COUNTS NOT HOW MANY SUPER PLAYERS THEY HAVE ON THE TEAM....
Jan. 2, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4395 posts
Doker,
I thought you guys got moved up to 3A. What happened?
Jan. 2, 2009
RampenUp
2 posts
Gary, i dont think i know you, however, am i to think that , by your definition, any player who plays for more than one team or plays out of his/her state boundries is "a ring whore"? With the exception of my first year in senior ball, i have had to play as an exempted player because i have had no 50 major plus teams w/in my boundries. As a result, i have played only on teams that qualified for that "1" or "2" player exemption on a tournament by tournament basis. this past year of 2007, i played only one tourney. Desperate to play more, i called SSUSA to get permission to play on a "major" team in an adjoining state and was told that if i did , the major team would be bumped up to "major plus"(end of that discussion)! And now, for 2008, i have no "major plus" teams (even in adjoining states) and no "major" teams that i know of that will be bumped to "major plus" . . . and guess what? . . . one of the "new" rule changes just did away with my ability to play as an exempted player. So, now i am forced to play with the young guys and drop down to 40 and over(apparently they have no boundry rules). What i am really trying to get at here is that we should "all" be greatful we have the ability and health to play . . . as well as a team to play on (where ever that may be), because without both of these , every issue discussed on this board has no meaning!
Jan. 2, 2009
doker
Men's 60
168 posts
HEY TAITS....AS A 60'SAAA WE WERE NOT COMPETITIVE...SO WERE MOVED DOWN.......I ACTUALLY THINK YOU ARE REFERRING TO THE 55 TEAM WHICH WAS MOVED UP TO AAA...THEY WERE SOMEWHAT COMPETITIVE LAST YEAR WHEN ALL PLAYERS SHOWED UP BUT THAT WAS ONLY AT THE LOCAL TOURNEYS...AT THE NATL ONES THEY AGAIN WERE NOT VERY COMPETITIVE...AND SHUD HAVE BEEN MOVED DOWN FOR VEGAS BUT WERE NOT AND GARY THE COACH GOT VERY DISCOURAGED...ALL WE CAN ASK FOR IS TO BE COMPETITIVE...RIGHT?????
Jan. 6, 2009
WOW
197 posts
Doker
I would agree with you that the AA and AAA tourn. I was involved in last year were very competitive. In most cases, any team could have won. The problem occurs if you happen to win one of these tourn. Your team gets moved up[in most cases when the rules get applied evenly]. I say WHY? If the bracket was so evenly balanced, why should any team be moved. If you consistently win, then I sayyou should get moved , not when you win just 1 and especially if that was your only win in a while.........
Jan. 6, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4395 posts
doker,
Yes, on that, the 55 team was a AA team that moved up.
I'd just like another games against you guys at any lever or age. Your a great group of guys on and off the field. Too bad we're about 1800 miles away from each other.
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