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Discussion: home runs

Posted Discussion
Feb. 10, 2009
LP
276 posts
home runs
tell me what was wrong with the one up home run rule in AAA to me it balanced the teams if one team hit a home run and the other tem never hit one all the others that that team hit were singles, now if one team gets there 3 home runs and the other team hits none them the balance of power is out of whack, this will make a differance in the out come of alot of games.i'm not gripping just stating a fact, for the boys that are afraid to play higher divisions.
Feb. 10, 2009
jah#4
Men's 55
551 posts
LP
If you look at the total picture Major only hits 4 than 1 up. If you are AAA and you hit more than 3 maybe that team should play major and will not have to worry about hitting one for an out. I was a UIC in Dalton last year and watched a game that a team from NY hit 12 in one game and the other team hit only 2 Like you I am only telling what I was in several games and I believe the teams that hit more than 3 should play up and see if they can than if they can not appeal keep there stats and go back down and adjust there game to the rules that the groups enforce upon them
Don Ward
Kittrell softball
Feb. 10, 2009
JamesLG
297 posts
LP:

I play AAA and it is the largest group of players and seems to be the melting pot for talent. In our local tourneys we play 1 HR per inning the second is a double and the third ball out of the park in any one inning is a DBO. This works and nobody complains. This keeps the pitcher from getting drilled and guys with power get a chance to swing away at least a couple times a game. I may be old fashioned but just can't see punishing a guy for hitting the ball on the screws. We had many games last year when at least five guys in the lineup hit it out in a game and we probably lost 30% of those games. Hitting the ball out of the park does not make a team a winner. I am not going to bash the new rule anymore until I play a weekend with them and see if they take much fun out of the game. If the game is not fun there is always the drag strip or golf coarse.
Thanks All:
James
Feb. 10, 2009
THE HI-JACKER
118 posts
JAMES LG: "I play AAA ...... We had many games last year when at least five guys in the lineup hit it out in a game and we probably lost 30% of those games."

As you stated above James: Could this more than 5 H.R.s be one of the reasons SS-USA, has gone to H.R. for outs? Should a team, such as you have stated, still be in AAA?

Did SS-USA, start the Over the Limit H.R. as an OUT to stop SAND BAGGING? Who is to say if, a team is Sand Bagging?
Feb. 11, 2009
wagon487
Men's 50
516 posts
I agree with Hi-Jacker and jah#4,
sounds like both these teams should play major. JamesLG sounds like a major plus team, 15 hr a game, if I did my math right. Move up already!!!!
Feb. 11, 2009
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
Perhaps if only true home run hitters could hit it out, we wouldn't be talking about home run rules ... Unfortunately our nouveau R&D home run hitters seem to be the problem... I'll be the first to admit that I am not a home run hitter, never have been, never will be... But when I can mis-hit a ball, and it flies over a 300 foot fence in dead center field, then something is suspect ... Did it make me feel good and boost my ego?... of course it did... Should it have happened in the first place?... Hell no!... It should have been a routine fly ball out... To make matters even more suspect, as if that wasn't enough, I mis-hit another one to left field my very next time at bat, into the wind... It also flew over the 300 foot fence... Should have been another routine fly ball out... We need to address these types of cheap home runs... Good for the ego, but not good for the game.
Feb. 11, 2009
Lecak
Men's 55
1006 posts
Hi-Jacker it is not just SSUSA, except for Huntsman and LVSSA it looks all of the associations are capping the AAA HR's and after the limit making it an out. Huntsman and LVSSA don't have enough tournaments between them to really matter.

Whatever message they are trying to send they are all sending it in lockstep. Maybe teams will reclassify themselves.
Feb. 11, 2009
DCPete
231 posts
According to the new 2009 SSUSA Tournament Guide, "The new home run rules were made possible when we added the Pitcher's Protection rule."
Wow . . . really?
Feb. 11, 2009
JamesLG
297 posts

Guy:

If our team should be moved up to Major's then why are we 1-9 in Phoenix AAA combined the last two years? Playing softball is more than hitting the ball out of the park, the same as golfing is more than hitting a 300 yard drive. We play for the fun of the game and swing away. Our team broke up this year so this will not come into play much and for some of us this may be our last call.
Thanks:
James
Feb. 11, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4318 posts
JamesLG,
You only list a Phoenix tournament, twice combined record. What about the others, or Canadian, if you go up there.
As I understand it, it's winning the bigger ones, and by how many runs (plus 8), I think is the some arbitrary number they picked for some reason. You win you win, simple would be nice.
Larger numbers, like 8, mean the other team went to sleep, didn't show up, or you don't belong there.
If your overall record is better than shown here, request a trial period you all change and move all over. Give it a try at least.
Feb. 11, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
i think the AAA with 3 hrs is good.teams need to learn HOW hit if they are hitting more out than that at that level.AA and AAA are like the E and D levels in the young guys div's.i play a lot of that(e,d) around here(no hrs at all) and in E it is an inning ending out and offensive ejection,D is just an out.how about that for these 2 levels in senior ball.i do play AAA as of now and have no DBO's what so ever,playing it.played AA back in 2005 and hit 2 DBO all yr long when AA was not allowed to hit hrs.just need to have some bat control.so if ya wanna hit the long ball you need to move up.oh by the way i can and do like hitting the long ball myself,but pride myself on bat control.
Feb. 11, 2009
THE HI-JACKER
118 posts
MAD DOG: What a great aka. Bat contol, now that is a topic.

I just wonder, how far or to what extent are seniors willing to be told or forced into playing SS-USA's GAME.

Many enjoy hitting the ball hard. Is it ok for SS-USA, to tell their players to check ones EGO / POWER / SWING, in the dugout? Seniors are spending $500 to $1000 to travel, etc to SS-USA's tournaments.

Now SS-USA, is telling many players how to swing their bats. No player on my team has ever told me how to swing. If, they do, I give that player my bat & tell that *&#@+* to go bat for me.

Just a thought, does or should SS-USA tell players how to bat?
Feb. 11, 2009
tattooball
604 posts
But what do you do when it is 1 up but you already are 1 up? You mean you can change your swing then but not if they are outs?

I don't like the rule either but answer that question. I think everybody is complaining way to much on this subject.
Feb. 11, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
I agree with you Jack.
It's the players game and not handful of admins
and friends who want to change it
to their own ends.

SSUSA and other associations are charged
as they stand with endangering pitchers
and other inflelders by changing HRs to outs.
It's common knowledge big hitters will rip the middle and swing to keep the ball down and
through all the infielders.
That was the trade we made like what happens
in major league sports, an unwritten but real rule
to keep the ball up in the air to maximize fun
and safety at the same time.
Those who have enacted these changes
however influenced to do so
ARE responsible for any players being hurt this year
from the increased liability that
a great number of us
have already cited will exist.

Over the limit HR's as singles/walks
is less an indulgence and more a safety feature
that again, someone who plays our game,
loves and understands it, would get.

And, standing up for ourselves
and to whomever shows they have less
than our best interests at heart
is considered complaining by them
and responsibility, conviction, passion
and heart by us.





Feb. 11, 2009
JamesLG
297 posts

Guy:

In my prime I played for a team of smaller guys with not much power ( Nobody hit more than 15 HRS)and the big boys hated to play us because they knew we would never give up. If the wind was blowing in they were in trouble. If the wind was blowing out we would need to work even harder to hit the gaps and make the plays to even have a shot at winning but we NEVER wimped out and blamed it on them having too much power. I just don't see much of that kind of toughness and competitve spirit showing up when HR limits are brought up. A run is a run anyway you can put it in the books. I would not want to be a pitcher with a little sun in my eyes or be off my game defensively with the new rules. I also don't think it is wise to tell somebody to learn bat control without seeing them hit.
Thanks All:
James
Feb. 11, 2009
Jano23
Men's 50
95 posts
We all know that a good singles-hitting team can beat a HR-hitting team. Why not move up teams that hit a lot of singles? Maybe if “bat control” is the true demonstration of skill, then teams that hit a lot of bat-control singles should move up, or singles should be outs (maybe after 3 runs scored in an inning). Actually, come to think of it, how many people who hit a lot of HRs don’t have bat control?
Why should teams that hit a lot of HRs move up? Why not teams that have high batting averages? Or teams that score a lot of runs? The truth is, what makes a team good is WINNING GAMES! Why not move up teams that win games or tournaments, instead of basing it on some irrelevant statistic like HRs? What a concept, moving up teams that win tournaments!
What is the real reason for HR DBOs?
You guys who argue that people who hit HRs should move up are ignoring your own claims that truly good softball players don’t just hit HRs.
Feb. 12, 2009
JamesLG
297 posts
Jeno23:

Great post and you hit all the right points. A good gap hitting team that makes all the plays on "D" is tough for anybody to play. It's much harder on a defensive teams legs running down balls in the gaps than it is watching them go over the fence.

Thanks:
James
Feb. 12, 2009
WOW
197 posts
Let the balls fly. Let teams hit. Let the top divisions be determined by WINS not home runs OR ANYTHING ELSE. Isn't trying to win why we play? If wins were used as the determining factor for where a team plays, you'd have the best playing the best etc.!!!!!
Feb. 14, 2009
tomm
8 posts
I agree with James on the fact we only have so much glory left in us,so let the balls fly.Singles after 3 hrs.in AAA suits me. Not all teams in AAA have a strong roster down the whole line up. This to me is what makes the diff. between major and AAA teams.We had some guys who could bang it out of the park on a regular basis but others on the team were happy to hit a 400 ave. for a tourny and no hrs.It's not easy to always bring a healthy 12 guys to a tourny at this stage in our lives.
Feb. 14, 2009
Jawood
Men's 50
788 posts
Is it ever noticed that people who think the DBO rule is a good thing are USUALLY the ones that can't hit them?
Feb. 14, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
jawood i hope i would get to play against you with that mind frame.i can hit hrs and would hope to see a team that would play me not to be able to(hit the long ball).yes there may be some who will advocate the hr rules b/c they can't hit the long ball,but i'm not one of them.i have seen to many teams do the sandbagging effort by dropping down,just so they can win a ring.personally i don't think u should be able to claim a world championship unless u play the top level.u don't see AAA in MLB claiming to be world champs when they win the minor league championship.we have always hr limits all thru softball in our yrs of playing.AAA getting 3 now is enough as far as i'm concerned.letting them have singles will only have abuse at this level,as seen in dalton,ga last yr by a team that was regularly hitting a lot more than that(can u say sandbagging).
well my rant on this again,later and have a good season.
Feb. 15, 2009
Jawood
Men's 50
788 posts
Mad Dog, I don't disagree with anything you say. My basic premise is that no one should be penalized for hitting the ball out of the park. Our team does not have a ton of power so I guess the DBO will help us, but I still don't believe in it. I really agree with your ring statement in senior softball, it's a joke, everyone has one, too many are given out!
Feb. 17, 2009
gary#27nor.ca.storm
Men's 55
58 posts
mad dog jawood if you go to a rating you will not have sandbagging forget aa aaa major major+ if your good you are ratedup it goes by wins .it does not matter how many hr you hit but did you win.you should look how ncssa does it .Its works a lot better than senior softball.
Feb. 17, 2009
bashbro1
Men's 60
266 posts
Hey Joe. Just to send you scampering back to Webster again and to increase your lexicon, how about holding a Senior Softball "plebiscite"? Or maybe just a referendum with a simple majority deciding the issue regarding the “Over-the-limit” HRs.

Sample Ballot:
For Over-The-Limit HRs place an ‘x’ underneath your choice:
DBO: Single: Double: Other:
X
Example results:
DBO: Single: Double: Other:
0 1,456 1 99

Art Eversole (active voting member of Senior softball)

Feb. 17, 2009
jrhunch
85 posts
i am the player coach of pace from new york that is accused of being sandbaggers and afraid to play major by know it alls.yes it is true that in back to back games in dalton we hit 20 hrs.here is some background for the whiners.we play out of rochester ny.all 19 players live within 25 miles of each other and have played with and against each other our whole lives.we do not draw from outside the area.we have played major 2yrs out of the 6yrs i played.last year we were 1-13 in the major tourneys we played getting run ruled in 10 of those games.we were eliminated by 9am on fri.in ks.we had a way better team last year when we could use 50's than this year.this year we played in cleveland placing 2nd out of 8 teams.the teams were rated aa-major.we hit 8 hrs in 8 games.we then went to salem where we were run ruled in the 55' final. we hit 1 hr in 8 games.on to pa. where we won against 2aa,1 60'saaa.we hit 4hrs in 6 games.we scored 5 runs with 2 outs and noone on in bottom 7th to beat romans.we played in panama city where we got run ruled in a 4 team tourney to finish 2nd again.we hit 1 hr in 5 games there.this brings our hr total at 14 in 29 games.softball is a game where one minute you are a hero another moment you are the goat.everyone who travels will have his day in the sun.even the worst player in the world can go 4-4.it is a game of momentum and competion.playing against certain teams can bring the best out of you.hitting is contagious.add the wind ,the ball and bat to momentum and anything can happen.we are a good team who got hot live with it.we certainly dont travel all over the country to sandbag.we play everybody and try to win.in 6 years i have not seen 1 team play the amount of players we do.after the 20hrs in 2 games we hit 2.in the championship game we were out hr 1-0.the wind was blowing in.we also had luck behind us winning against cj's express 33-32 when there runner touched home in the 7th with basesloaded for the last out.we proceeded to score 4 to win the winning hit off the tip of the rcf glove.in the final game we scored 6runs after the of pulled up hurt on a easy out in the bottom of the 5th with 2 outs and noone on.after dalton we went to vegas.before we left i got a call from the td who informed me that the 2 calf. teams were complaining about our ratings.i told the td that if it was a problem we will give everyone 5 runs.(this didnt happen)when i looked at the ususa 55 ratings these teams were major and this was a aaa tourney.we didnt complain we were there to play.needless to say we were 0-3 against these calf.teams.we finished 5-4 and second place to a very good double nickel team.we hit 16 hrs in the 9 games.the reason for this long rant is to state the facts about our team.also to point out that people should be held accountable for what they say.there are too many snide remarks by people that speak without thinking or not caring.this is why senior softball is becoming a joke.the reason for all these new changes are a result of all the teams complaining to tds.a td cant pick up a phone without some sherlock holmes at the other end saying he has uncovered new evidence.my team has never complained once on the comp we have played.here is a fact aaa players do it sometime major players do it often and major plus do it all the time.i cannot take back the hr barrage in dalton nor would i want to but to demean another team who has played by the rules for 6 years is unfair.ask romans,double nickel,steel dawgs,motown stars,pj,s express,stancil's,monsters,hawaii55's if they would like to play us again and the answer would be bringem on.people should quit whining and start working on the game they love.you are making it worse than better.remember you cant win it unless your in it.stay save jr.pace#11
Feb. 17, 2009
jrhunch
85 posts
when i stated aaa does it sometimes major does it often and major plus does it all the time i was talking about playing ability not complaining.
Feb. 17, 2009
4x4
Men's 65
592 posts
Yeah - that 33-32 game was one of the best games I played in last year.

Is Yo taking voice lessons and writing scripts in the off season to be ready to spirit up you guys?

You really should take your hands off your ears when he's "talkin" though.

Pete
Feb. 17, 2009
jrhunch
85 posts
pete i dont think the voice lessons are working.i dont think the rules should be changing from year to year either.we will play whatever the rules are.someone sees one game and they know everything.if it was that simple why play in the tourney if everyone knows the winner.we spent over $60,000 this year to be called sandbaggers.these know it alls must be banned from vegas because they know who will win the world series,super bowl and the kentucky derby.these complainers are in another world.they have no idea how good and dedicated the major and major plus teams are.you cannot have a bad inning agaINST THEM.you have to play at over 100%of your ability and hope they are off to be competitive with them consistently.teams dont want to move up and lose and spend money doing so.i dont blame them but most of these teams dont or wont move up but are willing to point out other teams that have at least tried.got to get back to my screenplay that i will be submitted to double nickel productions in hollywood.maybe andy will see that the screenplay gets in the proper hands.stay safe i missed bob in florida.
Feb. 17, 2009
4x4
Men's 65
592 posts
jrh - I agree totally - I'm watching the attitudes cahnge all around me concerning the rules. Nobody is buying it.

I also agree that far tooo many are way too happy to be the "big dog" where they are without finding out just how good they can be. That being said the ones with that attitude are going to have a field day now with the winnowed down diluted turn outs and lack of quality teams.

Again - I don't see it being good for anybody.

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