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Discussion: New home run rules

Posted Discussion
March 1, 2009
breeze53
Men's 55
40 posts
New home run rules
Listen, we all know that our senior bats are being alter. I was shock to what extend it is going on. I have had many players come out and tell me what they do to their bats. It is going on in AA all the way to Major plus. Now these are the hottest bats made and we are still doctoring them.
Now, I understand the rush from hitting HRs, but when I see 150-175 lb men hitting ball 350 plus. And the big boys hitting some 450' plus. Something is not right.
We did it to ourselves. So, I am in favor of giving the new rules a try. I do not think it will stop the doctor bats. But, at least the field will be leveled, somewhat.
The true homerun hitters will be hurt. {HI Bogie and Joe.} But something needs to done. Just my thoughts. Bob
March 1, 2009
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2647 posts
I disagree with your statement that "we all know that our senior bats are being alter(ed)". I am certain that in my league and that the three or four tournament teams that I am close that there are zero doctored senior bats. Why would you doctor an already fragile bat? Even more, who would chance a suspension from senior softball with being caught with an altered bat?
I know this wasn't the topic of your post but I thought I'd bring this to the front.
March 1, 2009
busdriver
18 posts
Finally, someone willing to give things a chance, and stop whinning, The new rules are like a umpires call, they are not going to changeit
March 1, 2009
JamesLG
300 posts

I do agree that anybody caught hitting with a doctored bat should be banned for at least a couple years but I would like to know what you would consider a true home run hitter. Is a guy who has averaged 20 HR's per year for 30+ years and just hits the ball hard considered a home run hitter? I don't think so but we should not take the long ball out of his arsenal.

Thank You:

James
March 1, 2009
WOW
197 posts
breese53
How do you know for sure? I'd like to be able to tell!
March 2, 2009
Lefty
Men's 65
470 posts
I'm with BruceinGa. If you shave an Ultra type bat you would be buying a new one every tourneyment. Like any composite bat ASA, USSSA or Senior when the bat you hit is well broken in you don't have very many more swings. I avg. last year 2 HRS a tourneyment at 195 pounds does that make me a power hitter. No. I guess none you guys that whine don't know much about softballs. We are not useing the best balls. They cost over $50.00 a dozen. Why do you think they let us use the Ultra bats they pay $30.00 a dozen. The TD's used much better balls before the Ultra bats with USSSA bats and the Seniors hit much more HRS. It was written in one of the post when they started using the Ultra's. We hit less HRS with the Ultra bats with less cost on balls. The TD's make more money the cheaper the ball. It's all about the money.
March 2, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Pretty naive to think that just because a guy is 50+ he is immune from the same temptations that guys under 50 fall victim to.
March 2, 2009
wagon487
Men's 50
522 posts
Dirty, (i feel dirty just typing that name) don't the under 50 players shave their bats to be like the senior bats?
March 2, 2009
AlleninGa
Men's 60
113 posts
I have not heard of anyone doctoring a senior bat, nor do I see any reason to do so.

Also,I am not a home run hitter and see no reason for dumbing down the game to keep "true" home run hitters from enjoying their gift. It seems the ones most bothered by HR's are those that can't hit them (even with a senior bat).
March 2, 2009
ROOSTER10
Men's 60
91 posts
ALLENINGA
March 2, 2009
ROOSTER10
Men's 60
91 posts
ALLENINGA
Unfortunately it is done alot whether you shave or roll them.Like changing of
rules the altered bat will always be around.Not only home run hitters do it but if you want a little edge it is being done by single hitters.I do not condon it but it is there and if you belief it is not being done than your not of this planet.
March 2, 2009
AlleninGa
Men's 60
113 posts
Rooster10, I think rolling a bat is merely accellerating the break in period, thus shortening the life of the bat. Have you personally known of anyone shaving a senior bat? That would not be cost effective in the least.I don't doubt, someone is rolling Senior bats.

As for my comment on HR's, it had nothing to do with the altered bat comment.....By the way, I am an earthling:-)
March 2, 2009
ROOSTER10
Men's 60
91 posts
ALLENINGA
I did not mean it to be sarcastic on the out of the planet comment but unfortunately I know alot of seniors who have altered bats.I realize rolling helps break in bats but there are more shaving done than people want to realize.I guess winning means more than getting one hurt.Until they can
devise a test to detect altered bats
then it will not stop!!
March 2, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
No, they shave their bats to get an edge on their competition. Same reason seniors would do it. If everyone is using a stock Ultra 2, no one has an edge. You shave it, you get an edge.

Getting an edge is the obvious reason. As far as them breaking easier/sooner and thus costing the user more, not everyone is bright enough to see those consequences. Or some just don't care.
March 2, 2009
wagon487
Men's 50
522 posts
Dirty, what to know what the edge is?
TALENT!!!!!!!!!!!1!
March 2, 2009
diehard
Men's 55
245 posts
Just by shaving the bat they don't care. They don't care about the price of the bat, they don't care about the integrity of the game, they don't care about the team, and they don't care about the consequences if they are caught! They just don't care!
March 2, 2009
wolfin42
Men's 55
32 posts
As for many senior players playing at any of the levels most do not or a couple of times a year hit homeruns. I'm against the change in the homerun rule and the introduction of the .52/275 ball. The bats and ball used today allow me to hit line drives through caps and an occasional home runs or a ball to the fence. With a change in the ball I now become a line drive out somewhere in the range of mid-outfield. This is what drove me away from ASA softball. The safety concern for the pitcher, the amount of homeruns based on the 40 years of softball just didn't fly. Don't take me out of the game just appease the bat and ball vendors in obtaining additonal revenue.
March 2, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
wagon, you clearly are one of the naive guys I mentioned earlier.
March 2, 2009
breeze53
Men's 55
40 posts
WOW, email me at bobray53@yahoo.com we can talk. Bob
March 2, 2009
DoubleL10
Men's 65
817 posts
I'm with the other respondents who do not know of anyone doctoring senior bats. However, since I play 60s, I'm in the "older" group now. When I played 50s, I was aware of teams painting titanium bats to look like legal bats. That was before composites. Shaving composites is just shortening the life of any already fragile bat.
March 2, 2009
Mr. Manassas
227 posts
The manufactures could stop the shaving of the bats by not allowing access to the interior of the bat. It would be great to just show up to a tournament and know that everyone is on the same page as far as equipment is concerned. The equipment problem has been around from the beginning of softball....
March 3, 2009
AlleninGa
Men's 60
113 posts
I wouldn't be surprised if someone somwhere has shaved a "Senior" bat, but I have not heard from anyone who has personal knowlege of it being done. I am curious......does anyone "know" of someone actually shaving a "Senior" bat?
If so, which one and how long did it last? Speculation and assumption doesn't count.
March 3, 2009
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
I remember players removing the rod from U2 handles to make them end-loaded. Now we have the Maxload U2.....no need to do anything to the bat. The "senior" bats are good enough stock......you only have to hit it 301'.
March 3, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
And the current Utrip bats are good enough for 25 year olds to hit it 301'. You don't think any of them are altered either?

March 3, 2009
AlleninGa
Men's 60
113 posts
Salio2K, Thanks for "contributing" to the post.

Dirty, as usual....you're not relevant.
March 3, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
"Thanks" for contributing more naivete?

Why does truth bother you guys so much? You really think guys all of a sudden get honest and conscientious at age 50?
March 3, 2009
scrapy
Men's 60
9 posts
if they worry so much about bat why don't they start having tournaments that use only bat that the tournament director puts in the tounament
March 3, 2009
softball4b
Men's 60
738 posts
Actually Big League Dreams in Chino is doing exactly that. They have 26/27/28/29 Oz bats, both teams use the same bats. The tourneys are called bring your skills tourneys. I have not played in one yet, but would in a heart beat.
March 3, 2009
AlleninGa
Men's 60
113 posts
Dirty, do you "know" of any actual instances?
March 3, 2009
softball4b
Men's 60
738 posts
Actually Big League Dreams in Chino is doing exactly that. They have 26/27/28/29 Oz bats, both teams use the same bats. The tourneys are called bring your skills tourneys. I have not played in one yet, but would in a heart beat.
March 3, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
No, nor have I said I do. I am just not naive enough to be as certain as many seem to be on here that it doesn't and wouldn't happen.

Again, why are guys over 50 less interested in winning or at least hitting the ball harder than guys under 50? People do it for an edge. If I can shave my Ultra and make it more lively than yours, I get an edge.

It just seems certainly feasible to me that it happens, and cannot think that it never does.
March 3, 2009
AlleninGa
Men's 60
113 posts
Dirty....That's what I thought...you don't.....as usual.
March 3, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Keep your head in the sand. You probably look better like that.

March 3, 2009
AlleninGa
Men's 60
113 posts
Not relevant...as usual....I do like to pull your "pointless" chain every once in while....I find you "amusing".
March 3, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
I find you naive and most likely extremely gullible. After all, the Earth was flat until it was proven otherwise.

March 3, 2009
AlleninGa
Men's 60
113 posts
Thanks for the laughs.........I'll pull your chain later.
March 3, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
You are too sad to laugh at. I was taught not to laugh at the kids on the short buses.
March 3, 2009
hitt2
354 posts
Dirty
Then why are you sitting in the front seat of the bus.( I'm not talking about the driver). %)
March 3, 2009
AlleninGa
Men's 60
113 posts
Am I getting to you,Tick turd?.....Good!

See you on the bus!!!
March 3, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Nothing against them, but the short bus kids don't have Masters from where I do much less own homes in the community I do.
March 3, 2009
AlleninGa
Men's 60
113 posts
Is that a superiority complex poking thru?.....Sorry...."Masters", "Big House" and all, you're still a bench warming tick turd :-)Look out everybody........Dippity's got book learnin'.........ooooh, I'm impressed.
Now go learn something about Senior Ball.
March 3, 2009
tater9
62 posts
Dirty,
Making fun of people with developmental disabilities and their transportation mode and then bragging about that fact that you have more than these individuals from a social standard and intellectual level is really something to be proud and boast about. Classic!
March 3, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
tater, please note there are comments made by your "friends" that I was one of them. Why not mention that to them?
March 3, 2009
WOW
197 posts
OOOOOOOOHHHH living in Shaker Heights is a big deal, and having a Masters toooooooooo! Now now I know why your such a misfit dillweed....
March 3, 2009
softball4b
Men's 60
738 posts
I don't believe the houses on PALMERSTON RD are in the high rent district. Gary, time to find another board. maybe perfect game or softball fans (Banned) or 4softballfanatics.com
March 4, 2009
tater9
62 posts
Dirty,
Trust me when I tell you the people on this board are not my "friends" as you so wrongly stated. You are correct in that anybody that makes demeaning remarks about people that have devlopmental disibilities is wrong. The second part of my above response is directed to you. Bragging about the fact that you have more than those that are less fortunate because of circumstances they have no control over is also wrong.
March 4, 2009
Gary Heifner
248 posts
I am still trying to invision all the HRs that are flying out on each and every swing with the U2s. In approximately 13 games at the 60AA and 65AA level in Phoenix and Ft. Meyers at the end of the season 08, there were "3" thats "3" Hrs hit in all our games by both teams. Also, in my 8 years in SSUSA, I have still not seen a 165 lb. man hit a ball 350'. I also remember watching a game between "2" major teams at the 55 level and in that game, with no wind issues, a total of 2 were hit. I also remeber watching 2 very good 55 AAA teams playing in the Elgin Illinois Tourney a few years ago hitting only "2" in the game on a 275' field with the wind blowing out to left. A U2 does not make you a Hr monster. You still have to have strength, bat speed and great eye hand corridination.
March 4, 2009
AlleninGa
Men's 60
113 posts
I agree Gary, the U2 doesn't make you an instant hitter or HR threat. Good post.
March 4, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Absolutely, Gary.
The justification for all these changes
away from our game of 1.2 bats and good balls
is nothing more than a couple of assumptions
being pushed by our ignorance and the self interest
of just a few people.
The movement to "change" the rules
and dumb down our equipment is not evidenced
in any objective or meaningful manner.
Insurance policies don't necessarily stipulate
as to which bats are covered.
The premiums are the same.
The evidence of increased injuries from earlier
times is simply NOT substantiated.

Thanks to Gary Tryhorn, Bob Sebring,
A/C Linde and others at NorCal
we challenged these powerful assumptions
a while ago and found there was no wizard
but just a couple of ambitious men
behind a curtain.

We are being had by a combination
of our own good will and ignorance
and the self interest of a just a few
that's been steering us away
from what we, the players, want and need
in senior ball.
So let's take a deep breath
dare to pull back the curtain
and see who's there
and let our game come back to/for us,
the players of senior softball
before it's too late.
March 4, 2009
dj
32 posts
I agree with Gary, who is hitting all these homeruns, must be the 50's, this is a repeat but our team played in the TOC in Jan, 60aa and in the 8 games we played 1 HR and in the games I watched app 7 I never saw one hit. They must be using a different U2 than the one I have,
dj
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