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Discussion: MATS - One and One Count

Posted Discussion
March 5, 2009
Boppo
15 posts
MATS - One and One Count
I guess Dirty flamed another thread!

My two cents on the MAT and 1-1 count:
1-1 count gives big advantage to the pitcher that gets that first pitch over. I like to throw a low arc meatball on the first pitch and if its taken- I throw total junk. Even throw up an 18 footer and hope they swing. Most guys don't want to walk- so getting 2 strikes right away with the 1-1 count is key. Seems like with the mat- you could short pitch it and just barely nip front of the plate for a strike- no?
March 5, 2009
Mr. Manassas
223 posts
Pitching is truly an art form. I like the mat because it gives at least some kind of universal strike zone throughout the country. Boppo, the 1-1 count is really an advantage to the pitcher...I agree. I like to think that I can have an effect on the batter with that 5 mph fastball
March 5, 2009
AlleninGa
Men's 60
113 posts
Mark, I'm glad you got the post back on track.......I too believe the 1-1 gives the pitcher an advantage. I believe the primary purpose of the 1-1 is to move the game along which it may or may not do. There are other ways to do that, like hustling. From a hitters view point....looking for your pitch is part of the concept. The 1-1 "somewhat" takes that away. A hitter is lucky if he gets "one" good pitch per bat with the 0-0 count. If the pitcher is really....he probaly won't get any with the 1-1, unless the pitcher makes a mistake.
March 5, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Boppo, get a mind of your own. You came on this site and immediatley started echoing the words of the parrots who populate it.

BTW, good hitters will catch on to your pitching routine in an inning and tee off on the "meatball".
March 5, 2009
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
Boppo.......You are right that most guys don't want to walk, therefore, that short pitch is going to go right up the middle. At least you're protected by the PPR.
March 5, 2009
Mr. Manassas
223 posts
Does anyone really think that the "rule" protects the pitcher?
March 5, 2009
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
I should have put a smiley at the end. Protection must be purchased.
March 5, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3921 posts
Boppo your right on both statements.
i personally like the 1-1 count to pitch to(usssa has had it for yrs),make sure you change up some when the batters do catch on to the first pitch meatball.i guess i have to say that as dipty thinks we know nothing about the game,but who can say,as he was cut by the senior team he attempted to play with.

yeah right sal.
March 5, 2009
Boppo
15 posts
Polly want a cracker!

Of course you have to change it up on the mound. Another thing our league does to give pitcher advantage is the "no third strike foul" rule. You start with 1-1 count- you get only two strikes after that. So when I get ahead- I throw that inside breaking curve (I'm a lefty)and watch the foul strikeout! Last season we had a night when ump didn't show- and one guy had a MAT. Took me a few innings to get used to it - but definitely made it easier to call strikes (especially wothout an umpire!)
March 5, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
All I could go be is what was posted.

Now, details on the attitude please.
March 5, 2009
4Four4
Men's 60
79 posts
The mat standardizes the ball/strike call leaving the ump to only have to call the corners and the arc. It's alot less subjective and minimizes player frustration. Good hitters can always adjust to hit a legal strike - and - nobody likes a walk - not hitters/pitchers/umps/fans.
The 1-1 count is just another strategy adjustment to make with the benefit of being able to get in more action in a shorter time. It can be used as a way to negate the runs-per-inning rules that many teams dislike (more runs - reasonable timing) but it's probably best suited to league play vs. tourneys. Games do seem to move better with it and a hustle in/ hustle out no BS between innings mentality.
DH
#4 The Tub
March 5, 2009
Mr. Manassas
223 posts
I am a pitcher...Do any of you other pitchers use a mask and if so which one? I already use hockey shin guards to protect below the knees(I have had two knee replacements)
March 5, 2009
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
Mr. Manassas.....I bought a catchers mask. It will stay on your head when you bend over and also protect the back of your head if you have a wild 3rd baseman. DIAMOND IX3 EDGE CATCHERS HELMET. WORTH also makes a pitchers mask.
March 5, 2009
audieh
Men's 60
240 posts
We play with the mat and 1&1 exclusively in the Florida Half Century and it works very well. A third strike ball foul is an out. It speeds the game up and we have no run limits per inning and no restrictions on home runs. We do have mercy rules after 4 innings, etc., so the tournaments stay on time.

The 1&1 does give the pitcher an advantage but my gosh he certainly needs it. Pitchers have all sorts of strategies but basically no pitcher can consistently put the ball where he wants. Just like no bowler can consistently roll a 300 game. The results are batters clobbering the ball or taking walks. I perfer to swing away but my strike zone like most hitters is not limited to a perfect pitch. If it is close it is going to be tagged.

Two things come to mind on this subject. The 1&1 definitely speeds up the game. I can't tell you the number of times in national tournaments I have seen batters turn their back to the pitcher and not even look at a pitch until they get one strike. The full count for softball is a dinosaur that needs to die. You do not need 3 strikes to hit 1 ball, unless you cherish TV time, ie, love being at the plate! :)

I have also seen many of the best hitters in the country strikeout on a last strike that hits the plate! What you say? Yep, all those great hitters with those unbelievable eyes can miss judge a ball just like the rst of us.

That is why I know when a batter is really teeing off on a ball and is a little late it is subject to nail the pitcher. We are imperfect people playing an inperfect game the best we can which is why I enjoy the game!
March 5, 2009
Joncon
285 posts
""" I like to throw a low arc meatball on the first pitch"""

I love you :) :)




Mats are a "must have". Umps have a hard enough time and it makes there job easier and give one less thing for players to complain about.

1 and 1 count is a "must have". It is SLOW pitch softball. Swing the bat.

March 5, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Funny how for so many decades the sport THRIVED without either "must have".

Again, the umps make FAR less mistakes than the typical player.
March 5, 2009
Joncon
285 posts
Yeah...that is funny.

And....pay attention. I am supporting the umps.

If there was a strike zone, we would have to add a half hour to every game to make up for time lost during arguements.

And....The umps make fewer mistakes because they don't have to pitch, hit , catch or run :)
March 5, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
It is only SLOW pitch, most of those aren't very difficult.

And there are easy ways to eliminate the rambling arguments of old men.
March 5, 2009
AlleninGa
Men's 60
113 posts
It's "only" slowpitch.....Your obivious disdain for the "game" explains your constant "flatulent" posts......"easy ways to eliminate rambling arguments of old men"....how about a way to eliminate yours "old man".

Umpiring's a tough job.....arguing with the umpire is part of the game.....it will always be there....at all levels.
March 5, 2009
Joncon
285 posts
""""And there are easy ways to eliminate the rambling arguments of old men.""""


That would put a pretty serious crimp in your style now wouldn't it? :)

But, just for fun...enlighten us :)
March 5, 2009
Mr. Manassas
223 posts
Slowpitch played at the higher levels by competitive people puts a lot of pressure on the the umps. Anything we can do to make the game a little easier for them to make a good call is great. And change is not necessarily BAD!!
March 5, 2009
hitt2
354 posts
Mr. Manassas
I agree change isn't always a bad thing if implemented properly. Pitching is an art. I have a lot of respect for Tournament pitchers and their approach to the game.
AlleninGa -Joncon
Rec boy "Dirty" is a waste of time. It is a shame he focus his anger on a game that is so fun to play. Instead of sitting on the sideline and not participating due to his lame excuses of expense, or equipment being used. But he's stated he has a UII in his Rec bat bag. Is it shave and special?:)
March 5, 2009
hitt2
354 posts
Forgot to add:
"eliminate the rambling arguments of an old man"
For this to happen Rec-Boy would have to stop posting on this MB.
March 5, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Obviously it is special since only old men can use it. Spending hundreds of dollars to play a couple of teams for the right to buy a ring comes very close to the definition of lame.

I miss playing tournaments, real tournaments, but most of these things are very poor imitations of what tournaments used to be. Too many associations, too many age divisions, too many classes. Age groups should be every 10 years at least for guys in their 50s. Should only be Major and A for classes.
March 5, 2009
DCPete
228 posts
Whose comments were responsible for the previous thread getting erased?
March 5, 2009
ShaneV
Men's 55
380 posts
I don't know but I hope it wasn't me. Suggesting that anyone who does not like "senior rules" should go play young men's in other associations might be seen as advertising those other associations. I was only trying to get the cronic complainer(s) to depart SSUSA and this message board! Maybe Terry or Fran will give me a call? I have opinions to express and little time to waste, but about half the threads I take the time to comment on get pulled! Remember the lengthy difinition of sociopath? I really believed that was a helpful post for many of us.

Oh, and on the topic of the thread, love the mat as an umpire, UIC, tourament director and player. Hate the 1-1 count to start. One of those other associations up here in WA uses it everywhere all the time along with flat pitching and pitcher "dancing with the stars". When that association started up here (80's) we had a ton of fun with it. Seems to have gotten out of control.
March 5, 2009
Omar Khayyam
958 posts
I love the mats. I pitched 48 years without one and strike zones were always flexible and arguments were plenty. Since I started playing senior ball the last 9 years, lots of those arguments have gone away. Not to say that an ump doesn't sometimes miss a pitch that nicks the plate or mat.

As to 1-1 counts, that was the reality of the past 20 years I played before senior ball. I kind of like the full count of senior softball. Gives me a lot more options to mess with the batters head. I agree that the 1-1 count favors the pitcher...but he deserves a little help with the hot bats and lively balls.
March 5, 2009
Omar Khayyam
958 posts
I love the mats. I pitched 48 years without one and strike zones were always flexible and arguments were plenty. Since I started playing senior ball the last 9 years, lots of those arguments have gone away. Not to say that an ump doesn't sometimes miss a pitch that nicks the plate or mat.

As to 1-1 counts, that was the reality of the past 20 years I played before senior ball. I kind of like the full count of senior softball. Gives me a lot more options to mess with the batters head. I agree that the 1-1 count favors the pitcher...but he deserves a little help with the hot bats and lively balls.
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