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Discussion: WHY THE PPR MUST GO

Posted Discussion
March 6, 2009
DD
Men's 60
71 posts
WHY THE PPR MUST GO
The absolute WORST thing I can think of on a softball diamond is for the game to stop to allow an ambulance on the field to deal with a serious injury. We've all seen it, and the image of our teammate being carried off never goes away. None but a fool would think anyone actually hopes a pitcher (or anyone else) gets injured in our tournaments and leagues.

BUT...the current PPR must go now before it does irreparable harm to the game. How so?

1) It does NOT protect pitchers; it punishes hitters, but if a pitcher is hit does he not still bleed regardless of the DBO? Let me ask you...if you really want to protect the pitcher, would you start a game at 5pm with the setting sun so BLINDING that the pitcher asked his catcher to rioll the ball back to him because he could not see it? This actually happened at Romeo Park/Las Vegas at last November's Winter Worlds...I witnessed it and it involved our game. Incomprehensible---and completely irresponsible to think the PPR was in effect for that game. Think it would have averted an injury?

2) By telling hitters they cannot place the ball in the middle, you are tampering with one of the most basic concepts of hitting theory. ALL hitters are taught from the age of 8 to dial in the middle of the field; when a hitter is slumping, one of the most basic techniques used to bust out is to track the middle...for timing, placement; contact...it all starts in the middle.

3) The inconsistent application of the current PPR is yiedling inaccurante and unusable data. The rule as it was applied in October/Worlds differed dramatically from the application in Menifee; which differed substantially from the rule we saw in Phoenix in January; and that was different from what the umps were calling in Vegas/Winter Worlds. THESE RESULTS WOULD BE THROWN OUT OF ANY WORTHWHILE SAMPLING EFFORT;

4) The resultant protests and arguments are ruining the "positive social" aspect of softball interaction. The vitriol I've heard spewn at teams/players and umpires who are trying to make sense of this senselessness is shameful and there is no reason for it to continue. Umpiring is difficult enough without handing a metaphorical loaded gun to opposing managers and players to use to argue;

5) The time wasted on these unproductive arguments takes away from the allotted time for playing the games...we're already being squeezed on time (MONEY'S WORTH???) and if you want to do a real honest sampling effort, find out how many 7 inning games have been played since the PPR was instituted---I'll wager less than 50% of ALL games now last 7 innings;

6) Umpires HATE the PPR and do NOT want to deal with it...several asked for the petition and signed it in Arizona last weekend;

7) There are better ways to protect the pitcher; nobody thinks twice when they see a baseball catcher in shin guards, mask, and chest protector...even Little Leaguers wear protective equipment; many ballplayers wear a protective cup as a precaution; how many times do you see knee braces, ace bandages, ankle supports, neoprene thigh sleeves, elbow guards and dozens of other protective attempts. WHAT'S SO SACRED ABOUT TELLING PITCHERS TO PROTECT THEMSELVES WITH APPROPRIATE GEAR INSTEAD OF TELLING HITTERS TO CHANGE 50 YEARS OF COACHING???????

To paraphrase former president, Ronald Reagan, "Mister Hennessy, TEAR DOWN this rule!"

To take action to have the PPR repealed, find the thread titled REPEAL THE PPR...somewhere on this board.
March 7, 2009
number27
12 posts
Best coverage of the facts ever on this topic. Good job!
My 02... require protective gear... open the middle.
March 7, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
You have NO business telling me, or anyone else, what they have to wear. NONE!
March 7, 2009
4x4
Men's 65
592 posts
But I would humbly suggest a straight jacket...............
March 7, 2009
Tate22
Men's 55
260 posts
Dirty:
I totally agree with you. It's your call whether or not to wear protective gear. Take DD's extremely articulate post and change the word telling to suggesting to pitchers to wear protective equipment. If you take one in the pie hole, however, no whining.

Just got back from an SSUSA tourney today in Escondido, CA. More controversy over inconsistent interpretation of the rule by the ump and the rule still no protection to the pitcher.

Don Newhard
55 Major Plus

March 8, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
DD,totally agree the rule does nothing to protect the pitcher.
now for the people who don't believe in safety equipment...
mlb...first went to helmet,than to helmit with earflap..mandatory
nhl..helmet mandatory
ncaa... has required double ear flap helmets for yrs.
little league has required safety requirements that are mandatory.

there is a bunch of history of where mandatory safety equipment is in use(and not just in sports),why the big deal here.
March 9, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Good question,and it is different for a couple of reasons. One, protecting children is always a much different situation than adults. Two, batters have to react to pitches that they are being trained to stand in the box on and not bail at the first sign that it is coming near them because there is a distinct possibility the ball will/could break back into the strike zone. NOT the same with a pitcher and a batted ball, where you should be immediatley reacting to moving to the ball with your glove to field it. NOT to be waiting for it to move elsewhere.
March 9, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
and this is a reason not to use safety equipment,why?
i'm just stating that we have mandatory safety equipment that we must use scattered thru out our lives,what is the problem of using it in senior softball,or all of softball for that matter.most of accidents are that"ACCIDENTS",no one looks to get hit by a pitched ball(MLB),but it does happen,so MLB said you now shall wear a helmet,and that doesn't protect the batter completely.i have seen batted balls take some bad hops(and not just at the mound,but the pitcher is the closest to the batter)so why not have the pitcher wear a helmet with masked to protect themselves.you can do all the reacting you want after ya throw the ball,but a bad hop is gonna get ya regardless.
March 9, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
No problem at all with guys who want to use it. The problem is with requiring it. Whose business is it besides mine if I wear it or not? Why are others making it theirs? Thst is the real issue here, not voluntary use of it. How does me, or any other pitcher, not wearing it affect you or anyone else?
March 9, 2009
Elmo
Men's 50
69 posts
Dirty, Doesn't wearing seat belts apply to the same rule? They are required. It.s nobodys business but yours if you wear them or not, but if you get caught you still have to pay a penalty. If you have children do you tell them to wear their seatbelts or is it voluntary. How does you or anyone elses not wearing them affect me. Just help with a headon collision where someone wasn't wearing them and you'll find out!
March 9, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Elmo, as I said protecting children is and always has been a different story from adults.

And I don't think anyone should mandate seat belts or motorcycle helmets either. My business is my business, NOT yours.

What does it matter to you if I wear protective equipment when I pitch? Why do you care if any other pitcher does? Have you fathered all of us?
March 9, 2009
crewmember
Men's 65
10 posts
Dirty, I agree with you wholeheartedly.
If I pitched, I would wear shin guards and a cup. But that should be left up to me. Like helmets and seat belts, you might think I should wear them, but that should be my choice, not the governments. I'm protecting me, not you. My vote is to get rid of the PPR.
March 9, 2009
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
mad dog........had a bad hop hit me in the fore arm, but I was playing 3rd. I think that wearing of equipment might be welcomed by some if it was mandatory. Some pitchers don't think that it is manly to wear protection, but would like the excuse of having to wear it.
March 9, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
salio, you might but I don't know of any who are looking for an "excuse" to wear the stuff. If they want to, they do. If they don't, they don't. Excuses are not a part of the equation, and neither is being manly. They just aren't wanted or needed by some.

Can we get hit? Sure. Can we break an ankle sliding? Sure, but we all still do. All sports have some risk, otherwise we would play checkers.
March 9, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
what is it about useing safety equipment that is a problem,MLB requires it,NHL requires it,NFL requires it.what happens if in those 3 sports players decided not to wear the equipment required? how many would be allowed to play, NONE.now there is a situation where they are mandatory,what would be the diff in senior softball requireing safety equipment for pitchers.most safety equipment has been pushed by ins companys b/c of higher ins payouts b/c of accidents.pretty soon u'll see it happening in softball.

sal that ball prolly would of still got ya b/c "U HAVE NO GLOVE" :) :) :).
March 9, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
For baseball I have already explained the difference. The other sports are CONTACT sports. Big difference.

Why just stop with pitchers? Corner infielders are in a line of fire too. Should they wear something? We all can break an ankle sliding, should ankle braces be mandatory? Where do you stop? And if I don't wear protection how does that affect/harm/bother anyone else?
March 9, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
your BB explanation did nothing,batter is ready to moved(just as a pitcher in slowpitch after pitching) so should be able to move out of the way of a pitched ball.

the insurance company may beg to differ with you about anything affecting anyone else.
March 9, 2009
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
Dirty........I agree that some do not want to use protection, but some would welcome being told that they have to. I know that some spouses are talking to pitchers also. What would you do if your spouse told you to wear equipment or not play? Mine does not go to my tournaments, so I don't have that problem. That which we say to others is much diferent than what we say at home. We are talking about old men that have been married for many years and don't want to upset the little lady.
March 9, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
The batter should not move until he is as sure as he can be that the ball is not going to move back into the strike zone. Ever see a guy get fooled by a breaking ball? The softball pitcher should be moving his glove toward the ball instantly. BIG difference.

Somehow I don't think insurance is why the rule is being adopted, or even discussed. Correct me if I am wrong in that. Many more other injuries occur on the field than pitchers getting hurt. Why just pick on that one? Again, let's all wear ankle and knee braces so we don't get hurt sliding. Let's pad all the fences so we don't get hurt running into them.
March 9, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Honestly, she would never say that. NEVER! I was hit a few years back. My fault, broke my thumb and spent two months in a cast. Other than laughing at me for missing the ball, which I deserved, she and my kids never talked about anything else.

She knows this is not her business, it is mine. Could it affect her, I suppose. So could a million other things. But there is a line.
March 9, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
most balls hit back at a pitcher are going faster than any ball thrown at a batter.he has more time to react then a pitcher in slowpitch.know of only a few pitchers who can throw 100 mph,but many who can hit a ball 100mph back at a pitcher who is closer than a batter in baseball.again insurance companies haveing to pay for the ER visit from a batted ball hit at 100 mph will be the ones complaining.

sal we see what his family thinks of him,they could careless if he gets hurt or not.
March 9, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Mine didn't complain when I got hit. They just paid the bills.

Batters are trained not to necessarily react immediately, AGAIN they have to hang in to see if the ball will break back over the plate. Pitchers sure should be reacting immediately. Not to mention the pitcher should be in a good athletic position to field the ball, and the batter is standing sideways to the pitcher/ball. The pitcher's ONLY job after he releases the pitch is to be prepared to field it. The batter's primary job is to hit the ball, THEN to move if he needs to. MUCH different.
March 9, 2009
hitt2
354 posts
I would love to go bat through the box with him on the mound as would many of us on this MB. I think Rec Boy would be singing another tune shortly there after. That's right you don't play tourney ball so we won't get the chance.
March 9, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4305 posts
This weekend we had a pitcher her hit on the side of a leg. After the game he asked where I got my padding and he went to go get something.
Later, he was wearing one type I wore.

No ppr in effect for tourney. Not that it would have helped anyway.
March 9, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4305 posts
Hitt2
I'd venture to say your team won't be in AA very long.
Too many on it from a 3A team now to stay low.
Team was good this weekend 5\5.
March 9, 2009
TOMAR77
Men's 55
193 posts
Pratice save Pitching, 'ARMOUR-UP".PPR,can't and won't work!Good intentions,but as already elaborated here and on many other posts,this rule as already proven to be ineffective.
Tomar
March 9, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
hitt, you are such a loser. Why is it yours or mine or anyone's business what pitchers wear? No one has explained that. Hmmm..... BTW, why would you love to make an out, possibly more than one?

How do you get hit on the side? Not very good defensive positioning.

OH MY GOD!!!! hitt, you run your mouth on here and you play AA??????? Wow!!!!!!!
March 9, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Not to mention it sounds like you sandbag.

"Too many on it from a 3A team now to stay low"

Have you any pride? Keep chasing the right to BUY a meaningless ring, "tournament boy". LMFAO
March 9, 2009
shortly50
Men's 50
41 posts
Dirty, do use all a favor. If you have something important to add to the thread say it only and keep all the other crap out of the thead
March 9, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
So hitt can take cheap shots at me but I cannot post the truth about him? Uhhhhh, I don't think so.
March 9, 2009
stick8
1261 posts
DD I agree with your post except for one thing. While it's OK to suggest or recommend protective equipment it should never be a rule of any softball organization to tell a pitcher what protective equipment they must wear. That should be a decision pitchers make on their own.
March 9, 2009
stick8
1261 posts
Mad Dog, don't forget starting last year in MLB all 1st and 3rd base coaches are required to wear helmets.
March 9, 2009
shortly50
Men's 50
41 posts
I played in Escondido this weekend, the ppr rule had the umps so confused they could not call anyone out the box is so small, and all the pitchers I know take a few steps back & your out of the box so it's not an out. Makes no sense.

Dirty, I've looked at all your posts and I've looked at Hitt2 posts most of his are about the thread yours are not
March 9, 2009
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
We played in Escondido also......Same inning, ball hit off pitchers' glove....no out, two batters later, ball hit off pitchers' glove was DBO. seemed to be same play. This was with 2 strikes, short pitch......not intentional.
March 9, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
At most, 3 out of my 12 posts in this thread are "off topic". Nice try, though.
March 9, 2009
hitt2
354 posts
Dirty AKA : Rec Boy
First off I don't sandbag Iím just a player on the team. I play with teams and players I respect. I've played C & D ball before playing senior ball. I play by the association rules and use the equipment authorized. I was asked to play last fall and we went to Vegas last winter didn't place. The coach picked up a couple of player to improve the team over the winter. Not unusual.

Tait
Nice seeing you also this weekend. We hope to work toward being a good 55 team. There are 3 former AAA players on the team one is a 60 yr, everyone else came from an AA team including myself. Yes we will move up in NCSSA as we should as we complete and hopefully continue to win. We will learn more as to what type of team we are when we play in a SS-USA event.

Back to Rec. Boy
I don't care if a pitcher wears protective equipment or not. My comment was directed to you about hitting the middle. I love to see put your money wear your mouth is. But you don't play.
I play and have fun. I was asked to play with a 50 AAA last fall, told them no, because I made a commitment to this team first. I donít seek to be a pick up player. If asked to play with a high level team would most likely do so, if I haven't already committed to a team. Unlike you my word means something. I have pride. I play I don't whine about bats being special, rule changes. When scheduled to be at a tournament I show up to play. Not sit on the sidelines, Oh that would be like you. No thanks.
Your comebacks prove to everyone on this MB how much of a Jag-off you are. You donít want to improve the game you want to Dirty it up and you do it so well.
I probably wonít see your response as you flame the threads so quickly in the morning I don't see them out west.
March 9, 2009
BossBandit
Men's 50
55 posts
It would appear to me that many of the participants on this board are treating this issue just like they are the subject of altered bats. They want to point the finger at it, complain about the existence of it, and lay the enforcement issue off on to someone else. I'm sorry folks, IMHO, the solution to this problem is the same as many others in softball. The players have to be a major factor in the solution. You must take responsibility for your self and act as a responsible human being, not just a ballplayer for that definition of a man is somewhat lacking in content. There is not a good excuse for hitting at the pitcher. At this point in our lives we should be able to, at the least, make the effort not to hit at the pitcher. There is a distinct difference between at the pitcher and hitting the middle. If you are not able to exercise that control, then pull the ball or hit it the other direction. Yes, I am and have been a pitcher and yes, most of the time I'm able to field my position. If you hit it at me, don't try to laugh it off say "sorry, pitch." At the least make it sincere. When you get back to the bench, however, is the time that I'm talking about. Every player on the bench should tell you exactly how big a "south end of a north bound horse" you are.

In addition to that, expanding my earlier comment. Until all you players that know people that fix bats, or play on teams with "men" who fix bats, or use altered bats, should be turning them in or doing the policing on your own team. If someone wants to use one on my team, I will either put his bat away or I will quit the team and let everyone know why I quit the team. There is no excuse for allowing anyone in the sport to ruin it for other people.

Your turn...
March 9, 2009
shortly50
Men's 50
41 posts
I forgot to mention that all the teams we played were very good & the competion was great. Out of 5 games 3 were deceided in the bottom of the last inning & the other went to the tie breaker inning. Alot of great ball was played.
March 9, 2009
shortly50
Men's 50
41 posts
Dirty, I said all your posts not just this thread. 463 since may 08
March 9, 2009
hitt2
354 posts
Boss Bandit
Please don't take my statement to Dirty to a general practice that I like hitting at pitchers. Just the opposite I see pitching as a highly skill position. I don't hit the middle normally to avoid hurting someone and take the ball to the opposite field if I can't pull it. I will help protect my pitcher if he's being targeted. However in reference to Dirty I'm serving him something he'll remember. I've asked him to leave me alone, he continue to provoke me and other.
Shortly50
Your right about his post.
March 9, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Don't pay attention to dirty Gary Sommers
or anything he says.
He's arrogant, ignorant and
a waste of time.
March 9, 2009
shortly50
Men's 50
41 posts
My bad just got tired of his bagging on people just to post
March 9, 2009
RIK56
Men's 50
120 posts
boss i agree with most everything you say,but all hitters are not the same,some have a natural swing from left center to right center so sometimes the ball heads up the middle,lots of reasons for it hitter is having a bad day and no lift on the ball.i"m not very tall 5"9 not a long wingspan so pulling is hard for me i had to work hard to learn to pull,i dont go to the plate trying to hit middle i"m looking to pull or a shot into right.this is my forth year of senior ball and i dont think i have ever heard or thought someone was trying to hurt a pitcher.
March 9, 2009
lazer larry
Men's 50
96 posts
Rich, you forgot to tell them you are a pitcher and a damn good fielding one at that.Also i have never seen you complain about a ball up the middle, only if you missed one. Lazer
March 9, 2009
BossBandit
Men's 50
55 posts
hitt2, I understand and wasn't aiming my comments in anyone in particular but at the community in general. I hit righthanded and for as long as I can remember my "power alley" has been from center to right center. I taught myself to pull the ball and I also taught myself to go the other way effectively. On occasion, I have been known to slip or drop technique or just screwed up and went toward the pitcher, never intentionally. I have seen people go at pitchers intentionally and I've thrown more than one out of games that I've umpired and I sent their managers with them on occasion just for trying to defend their actions.If it's not right, then you shouldn't be doing it. When you look at the fact that we have reached this point in life and are still healthy enough to play a kid's game for the benefits of the exercise and fellowship of the people we have met on the field over the years, it doesn't make sense to do it wrong.

I don't think that "Dirty" has anything useful to offer and that is the only comment I will make about him on this board.

Additionally, I find that Einstein's posturing and pontificating is beyond my ken and I will leave it at that.

I believe in the game and I believe in the basic good nature of people until they prove me wrong. Look forward to seeing some of you in Florida. Come play in Florida and we'll introduce you to the Florida Half Century ASA, Inc. and our way of playing ball.
March 9, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
A player on what sounds like a sandbagging team. And there is no other team you respect? BTW, you play AA, barely above "rec league". The lowest level of tournament ball. My God, have some pride.

No whining about the special bats. I use one too. Just stating the obvious. There is NO need for them, and certainly not if anyone really thinks safety is an issue.

shortly, you scrutinized all of them?
Amazing. :)

hitt, of course you might hurt someone. You play against AA pitchers.

"einstein", I thought you quit this association.

March 9, 2009
hitt2
354 posts
To the readers spell check not working on this computer. Sorry about typos.

Rec boy
It further go to show you know very little about west coast softball.For clarification purpose My team's present classification is AA in SS-USA. However in NCSSA they don't use that classification system. In nor cal we don't play AA, AAA, Major or major plus. It doesn't matter the age level. A team that is AA plays AAA, majors and major plus teams. Our ranking system 1- 100+ teams. the stronger tournament team are aways listed in the top 55. All team in 50&55 age brackets in the top 55 rankings. 60 and 65 major and AAA teams are added to the top 55 teams. A team is ranked according to their win loss record not age. We played a 60 major team, 60 AAA, a 55AAA , a AA and us. This was our first tournment of the year. All teams were braketed on their final standing for 08. I was asked to play and I agreed to play. I know this team won't be AA for long. I can also state we don't want to be. We want to move up as we compete. I don't get the sandbagging. It doesn't matter what level pitcher is on the mound if it was my intention they will get dinged hard. Most pitcher are nice people playing a game at a high level they love. Why would I want to interupt their joy. Without them its' not a game. However you bring out the worst in me. I don't see any chance of you and I seeing eye to eye. What I know presently about you I don't care for. God forgive me but I'd swing to hurt you. Then you'd have real reason to whine further about the equipment and rules. I don't play the game for t-shirts trophy or rings. I have earned plenty over the years which are gathering dust in the garage. If I wanted jewelry I can by it at the mall. I play for the love of the game. When that's gone I will stop. At least I'm playing, what about you? You can insult me for playing. It would be better to bagg on me if I choose not to play.
"Tournament Boy"
I like the handle it says I'm out there playing and competing. Live with yours "Rec Boy", stay home and whine. Find another excuse for not playing. The ones you've presently repeated for the past 2 years, which also can be reviewed, have gotten very tiresome. I think youre the "one trick pony."
If you want to continue this verbal assault start your one thread, so as not to detract from this or other you've caused to be flamed.
March 9, 2009
Tate22
Men's 55
260 posts
Gents:
Just a reminder, 45 replies ago DD started this post as a call to action to rescind a rule that(IMHO) does not protect pitchers and adds unnecessary controversy to games with a rule that is at odds with the basic game. Let's net this out. 1)Does anyone think this rule actually protects pitchers? 2)If so, how? 3)If it doesn't protect, why should it remain? 4)Rather than hint at the concept, does anyone want to call for officially closing the center of the field to hitters? 5)Should pitchers be prevented from throwing short, outside pitches? 6)Rather than try to legislate risk out of the game, who wants to leave the game alone and get rid of a mis-labeled rule? I'll start the voting with an emphatic endorsement of #6.
Don Newhard
Manager - OLR Nighthawks 55 M+
March 10, 2009
Jano23
Men's 50
95 posts
I agree with those who think that protective equipment for pitchers should remain optional. Ridiculous, objectional legal precedents in other areas of our lives should not be presented as excuses for further restriction of our freedoms. If pitchers (or other players) want to wear protective equipment, they are free to do so. It should not be mandated.
Sal, are you sure it was a "bad hop", rather than "too hot to handle"?
:-)
(Sorry, but I'm pretty sure your pitcher's short, inside screwballs were intended to make me hit grounders to 3rd).
March 10, 2009
Jano23
Men's 50
95 posts
Sorry, I meant "objectionable".
March 10, 2009
Jano23
Men's 50
95 posts
It is my opinion that generalizations regarding the inputs of certain individuals (e.g., Dirty, Einstein) are worthless.

I have seen numerous posts by Einstein which, although wordy, I have found to be totally worthwhile - and I have been glad that he has the persistence to hang in there against unbelievably unreasonable opposition. In fact, I almost always agree with Einstein's posts.

Most recently, I have seen Gary19 (a.k.a. "Dirty") making totally reasonable arguments against mandatory pitcher protection equipment. I agree with him less frequently, but I can tell that he is an intelligent man. I don't think that his opinions should be rejected out-of-hand (in this case) just because he doesn't play senior softball.

I support efforts to keep BS responses from certain MB members to a minimum, but sometimes their crying wolf has a basis in fact.

Even though some poster's posts can be repetitious, it doesn't mean that their points are invalid.
March 10, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Jano, just for clarification I play about 90 games a year. Not bad considering the weather in NE Ohio.

I choose not to play tournaments for the many reasons I have stated. Too many associations. Too many age groups. Too many classifications. Too few teams in a bracket to make it worth my money. Too many meaningless tournaments for the "right" to buy a ring. Just not a good investment in most cases to me.

I might very well change that if and when the tournament landscape ever improves.
March 10, 2009
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
Jano23.....everything you hit is too hot to handle, especially on that hard infield! Guess Bob was right about me not having glove.
The only reason I agree on mandatory protection equipment is that then we could get rid of the PPR. It would be for the good of the majority. Pitchers only represent 10% of the players.:)
March 10, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
90 games a yr,if that is all i got to play i would quit.not even worth going to do,waste of my time.i would rather be fishing or playing golf.

sal i knew it. :):)

your right on the 10% being pitchers,also could save a life,and or serious injury.with the fact that there can be bad bounces and not able to see sometimes.now all you rambo's can come and flame this.
March 10, 2009
Joncon
285 posts
I'll sign the petition if you suggest an alternative rule(s) that MIGHT HELP to protect the pitcher.

The PPR doesn't SOLVE the problem but it is a step in the right direction.

The rule is certainly lacking but it;s a step in the right direction.

If you want it gone, suggest something....anything.
March 11, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
I don't live (thank God) in friggin Texas, you (probable) gun-toting redneck. Ninety is not bad between May and August. Many play more, I understand (don't be jealous because I can perform that verb), but 90 is far from being a "non-player".

Now where is the proof, and what are the examples, of my attitude? C'mon redneck, man up!
March 11, 2009
AlleninGa
Men's 60
113 posts
The entire State of Texas is fortunate that you don't live in "friggin" Texas...."Pencilneck".......

PPR...."Safety gear"....use or don't use it.....If I pitched, I would wear some sort of gear.
March 11, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
...."Pencilneck".......

No, not really. :)
March 11, 2009
Ken
Men's 55
462 posts
Pencil something.
March 11, 2009
AlleninGa
Men's 60
113 posts
JMHO, of course :-)Redneck...Pencilneck...what the heck?:-).....Just pickin' an grinin':-)

PPR... Hitting up the middle is part of the game...Pitchers know it and the good ones deal with it.... one way or another.
March 11, 2009
Tate22
Men's 55
260 posts
Joncon:
Thanks for getting the discussion back on the subject of this post. This should be about discussing issues, not bad mouthing. Allen in GA makes the only suggestion that actually protect pitchers, safety gear. Screens can help too, but I'm not in favor of going that far, at least not at the levels I've played so far, 50 & 55 Major/Major Plus.
It's a matter of opinion if hitting the middle is a problem or part of the game. No doubt, there is risk. I believe hitting the middle is part of the game, as long as it is not an intentional effort to hurt somebody. Any effort to legislate that away is an unfortunate and misguided attempt to dilute the game. The rule as it stands is a Hitter Punishment Rule, not a PPR. I don't believe there is any viable rule that will totally eliminate the risk to pitchers. If it don't protect, we must reject!
JMHO
Don Newhard
March 11, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
HRs as singles/walks is a powerful way
to protect pitchers and though unwritten
could be emphasized even more than
before.
The changing of these two rules for this year
makes SSUSA meaningfully responsible for the results.
More players will be hurt
and more disturbingly is the existence
of another agenda regarding our wants and needs
or
the presence of great distance between SSC,
the senior softball community and SS-USA
so much so that they either don't see
or don't care enough about us.
No one's gonna be fooled here, any more
and good faith can only go so far.

SSUSA needs to man/woman up
and change to a situation that's as least as safe
and fun as last year or live with the responsibility
and results.
We will hold them accountable.

March 11, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
hey tate didn't i suggest we use it also :):).oh say hi to some of your guys,doc-gary,bob L-retired navy guy and any others that were with stone age back in the days.

dipty for the last time,it was per a conversation with 3 of your ex-teammates at a softball training session we were all at.so prove them wrong. oh you still were cut by a senior team thats bad,i have never known anyone to be cut from a senior team.but you.so use your masters and explain this.

allen you just be an old grumpy guy :):) how's it going guy.

as for pitcher protection why not make it mandatory for a mask,it'll sure stop serious injuries.i do pitch and at this time don't use protection,but that is me for the moment.i would have no prol in having to use it if it was mandatory.i'm at this moment looking at maybe getting the worth pitching helmet for myself.i do have a game face but haven't used it,to proud i guess.
March 11, 2009
4Four4
Men's 60
82 posts
PPR or not - ARMOUR UP! Cmon guys, cut out the macho BS and wear some protection. Nobody wants to hit a pitcher but it happens. Nobody wants to make an out. Most guys situation hit and go with the pitch. Most guys try to hit the ball as hard as possible.
MVP (Leo) - you listening?? The team will buy this stuff for you!!! Armour up.
"You may scream - there is no shame." (Russian Col. to Rambo before really hurting him...)
DH
#4 The Tub
March 11, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Specific examples please. Your credibility is taking a BIG hit here, sad dog.

Why should anything be mandatory? How is it your business what risks anyone else takes?
March 11, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Why stop "armouring" with the pitcher? I see many more bad hops in front of the other infielders than the pitcher. Include them? I see many more ankle injuries than pitchers getting hit. Mandatory ankle braces? Many more hamstring pulls than pitchers getting hit. Mandatory neoprene leg sleves?
March 11, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
dipty for the last time,it was per a conversation with 3 of your ex-teammates at a softball training session we were all at.so prove them wrong. oh you still were cut by a senior team thats bad,i have never known anyone to be cut from a senior team.but you.so use your masters and explain this.

where does my cred take a hit.it was your ex team mates who did the talking,not me.
March 11, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
And you cannot provide a single thing that was allegedly said? Uhhhhh, okay.
March 11, 2009
hitt2
354 posts
Rec Boy
Why should he sling the mud of others? It must be true otherwise you won't be so upset about the comment and trying to squash it. Wise up. Show us you have the stuff. Get on a tourney team and just play and quit complaining.
March 11, 2009
Tate22
Men's 55
260 posts
Order on the Board, Order on the Board. Let's stay on point here. Fact - equipment will protect pitchers. Fact - PPR will not and cannot protect pitchers. Fact - equipment is currently legal but not required, no new rules needed. Fact - a shot to the pie hole will seriously hurt.
Devo song lyrics -"Freedom of Choice, it's what you've got"

Chuck, duck, and if you wish, armour up!
Tate22 out
March 11, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Actually AA boy (wow, is that embarrassing to talk that much smack and you barely play tournament ball) lies are much more upsetting to anyone with intellect than the truth.

It is easy to talk crap on a message board, especially when he is not willing/cannot validate what he claims.

You play AA. You are barely on a tournament team. The lowest form of tourney ball. LOLOLOL

Tate, I prefer to pitch and field. When I duck I will quit.
March 11, 2009
Tate22
Men's 55
260 posts
Dirty -
Agreed, we all have that choice. I also prefer to field my positions, and when I can't, I'm gone. Nobody will ever mistake me for a catcher/DH ;)

March 11, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Why the PPR must go?
Cause it won't work and won't protect pitchers
especially after making HR's outs.
Eliminate PPR and go back to HR's as singles/walks
and maybe you'll have the success
they had in Phoenix last year or better.
March 11, 2009
softballer
Men's 55
560 posts
wow AA is still higher the league ball!
March 11, 2009
softballer
Men's 55
560 posts
type o than league ball!
March 11, 2009
hitt2
354 posts
Softballer
How are you doing? They moved you guys to Fremont over the weekend. How'd you guys do?
Rec Boy
Where a team starts out at the starts off the season is not my doing. I'm not on any committee to make those decisions. Thatís the ranking given the team by SS-USA. Come out west and play ball in our association before you make further statements about level of play. Point of Fact If I expected this team to remain AA I might of accepted other offers to play. KEY word OFFERS.
I make no excuses or find lame reasons for not playing you do.
BTW thanks for the new handle AA Boy still says Iím out there playing what about you.
March 11, 2009
softballer
Men's 55
560 posts
HITT2 I DIDN'T get to play last weekend i had things to do! i think they went 2-3
March 11, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Marginally better, considering there are some Major players in the league. And the difference in talent is certainly not equivalent to the difference in costs.

But being on a AA team is your doing. You can't find any real teams to play on?
March 11, 2009
hitt2
354 posts
Rec Boy
Your right I choose to play with an AA team that asked. Iím not on the sidelines whining. As stated in other post I play for the love of the game & friendships made. I don't have anything to prove anymore. Any team that plays and attempts to get better is a team. Still you don't play. 90 league games arenít squat for a season. I play more than that in tournaments alone. Where I live there are leagues catering to every level of play from March to December. Up until a few years ago I played 4 nights a week. Due to a shoulder injury I cut back to twice a week. You do the math. Keep trying to insult me I find you to be a joke, letís hear more.
March 11, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4305 posts
The team Hitt2 is on this year is that won't stay 2A for long, if they do the fix was paid.

My take of tournaments is something like this:
Recreational = home town league play, a lot of fun basically, keeping in shape. A few local tourneys.
Old school tournament ball = Fun with open rosters, like the Huntsman Games
Major tournaments= Like SSUSA, SPA, NSA, etc put on, serious travel players, but costly.
March 11, 2009
WOW
197 posts
If Dirty were on the West Coast and played a lot of tourn. ball like the rest of the real players he would have the necessary experience to back up his goofy claims, but being he plays "weenie" ball and was cut by his Senior team, he should keep his opinions, of things he knows nothing about, to himself.
March 12, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
taits, when that happens let me know. In the meantime.................
March 12, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Hundreds of dollars to play 5 games against 3 teams who did not need to qualify to be there for the right to buy your yourself a ring makes a "real player"? LMFAO

You either forgot the 60s, 70s, and 80s or were never good enough to play in anything really meaningful back then to understand what tournaments are supposed to be.
March 12, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4305 posts
Dirty,
Do your own research, it's available. I'll be playing against them a few times I'm sure this year, because I'm playing down an age bracket. Would like to play against WOW again as well though...
As for the older generation thy that do play I'm sure have paid their dues as it were, along the way.
Which is more than one could say about you.
I like your new "name" Rec Boy. But what ever your called, I doubt it will be to play in any major tournament, more than once in the future.
Average is about 200 a weekend more it you fly or drive a long distance. But researching to see who will be there and figuring out who is at your level should enable you to figure out how many teams you would compete against. If 4,5 or 6 its good because you might end up with an extra game. If less well, that sucks overall. But it also depends on the assn. throwing the tourney, & the way they level the field out. Not all are equal there either.
So you might want to cut a limb off that tree and whittle a stick or bat from it and go hit a balls at F. Douglas Park.
March 12, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
What/Where is F. Douglas Park?
March 12, 2009
softball4b
Men's 60
722 posts
Dirty,

I am sure Taits meant Frederick Douglass Park, 5 fields, no fences. Shaker Heights, OH
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