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Discussion: PPR DISCUSSION UPDATE

Posted Discussion
April 4, 2009
DD
Men's 60
74 posts
PPR DISCUSSION UPDATE
To Wick, Wood, FOFO, and others discussing the PPR...

Although many have registered opinions about the PPR, Don Newhard of OLR Nighthawks and I have been among the most outspoken critics of the PPR. (See "WHY THE PPR MUST GO" and "REPEAL THE PPR-TAKE ACTION HERE" and other threads elsewhere on this board.)

The petition drive had some initial traction, but momentum has slowed recently due to the perceived acceptance by players/managers that the PPR is here to stay---at least until the end of the year. At that time, sufficient data will evidently exist to provide SSUSA/SSWC officials what they need to decide if the rule a) remains intact; b) is dumped; or c) is modified in some fashion.

One reality will go unchanged, according to a top-ranking SSWC exec: There is a need for a rule protecting pitchers because of the litigious nature of our society.

We could yet see one or more of the following alternatives: mandatory safety gear for pitchers; a screen; umpire discretion to eject egregious middle-shooters or other changes. But, according to this same SSUSA/SSWC official, "There will be a rule that protects pitchers. There is no getting around it."

With that reality set in stone, attempts to repeal the PPR at this time are mostly symbolic and will have little or no effect with regard to changing the status quo---although the current petition drive will communicate the widespread dissatisfaction among players with the current situation. But, the alternatives to the current PPR might be actually worse than what exists at present.

If you were at St. George, UT for the recent Spring World Championships, you saw very few invocations of the PPR. In our 6 games, it was not called once, and most of the players/managers I spoke with had no problems with it.

This is undoubtedly a result of a concerted attempt by SSUSA/SSWC to achieve consistent application of the rule from their umps AS IT IS WRITTEN. There is little or no problem with the rule AS IT IS WRITTEN. The problems have come from the wild enforcement and inconsistent application by umps and TDs, and by the temptation some umps have to inject their personality into the game by attempting to "legislate" safety in the name of the PPR.

The petition drive has generated an estimated 150-200 signatures in less than 30 days, reflecting the overwhelming dissatisfaction with things since the rule was instituted in October 2008. For a copy of the petition, please email me at daltons11@cox.net

Hope this update helps in providing some context as to where I believe things stand at present regarding the PPR.





April 4, 2009
Joncon
289 posts
If they are experimenting with this rule, I think they should try defining it more to take some guesswork out for the umps. A LOT of the controversy come from interpetation and judgement calls.

Simply draw chaulk lines starting from home plate, reaching a width of 4', six feet behind the rubber.

Any ball hit within the lines, under head high is considered an out unless the pitcher makes the play. One thing you DONT want to do is punsih the pitcher by taking away the DP.

They already have the equipment on the field and chaulk is cheap. Spend two minutes and define the "middle".

This will at least take the guesswork out of it for the umps. Most of them can tell if a ball is hit in out outside the chaulk.....some of them anyway.


Right Dan??
April 12, 2009
JohnBob
Men's 60
246 posts
I hear both of you, the way the rule reads the Pitcher has to stay in Pitcher box for PPR to be inforced by Ump's.I had a thread on here a couple months ago asking those who pitch how many pitch and stay in the box,and most all that replied said that they pitch and back out of box. I know our's almost always backs out of box after pitching so if hit no DBO. My biggest complaint on this is how is the Ump's to tell where back of box is,some posted on this board that they rub out the back line on purpose and even if this is not done back line still gets rubbed out with both Pitcher's back up and with kicking up of dust Ump's will be guessing whether he was in box when hit. This was the biggest problem with calling this rule at World Champinships last year. I know the rule is here till reviewed in December 09 but why the wording can not be changed to include those the pitch and back straight back out of box is beyond me.
April 12, 2009
LP
280 posts
the pitcher still has a chance to turn a double play,if he fields the ball he can make the attempt. the DBO comes in to play if the ball strikes the pitcher when he doesnt have time to make a play,as long as it doesnt hit the glove or his glove arm in and attempted play. i dont care for the rule either,and i pitch.its the misinterpretation by the upimers that make me boil.
April 12, 2009
leftie
Men's 50
41 posts
The problem with the rule is umpire's discretion.
There is a fine line between self defense and making a play on the ball but, it's all considered the same.
Draw two parallel lines and if the ball goes between them, it's an out. Don't know why we have to worry about the 6 foot distance behind the pitchers plate anyway. The home plate umpire has the worst view of that on the field. Besides, by the end of the first inning it's gone anyway which makes his view even worse.
Also, SSUSA should take some action before December. A lot of people could be hurt by then.
The other possibility is change the new HR rule back to the way it was..The PPR might not be an issue then..
April 12, 2009
LP
280 posts
your right leftie the new home run rule is what will wind up hurting the pitcher. but dont put parallel lines for the pitcher.that was used in a tourney in dallas last year(batter was out on anything up the middle) that rule sucked and cost us a state championship.
April 12, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
SSUSA is not going to admit their mistakes because they think they will look wishy/washy by changing and don't want to look like they can be pressured into anything.
This coming from an organization that has basically been defined by its ad hoc changes and decisions, to date.
It's pathetic because just as you guys
have suggested,
there will be more danger
to pitchers and middle infielders
and less fun for all
given the PPR and HR's as outs.
And SSUSA should show care
and flexibility by making the change back to the standards of last year
instead of exhibiting the infantile
denial of saying NO.
Again, they are and will be held accountable by me and the most of us for their decisions in 2009.



April 13, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
"SSUSA is not going to admit their mistakes"

I guess that gives you something in common with them.
April 13, 2009
leftie
Men's 50
41 posts
Maybe the new HR rule is mostly the culprit. The hotter bats certainly play some role. But, The change in the HR rule brought the bats into focus.
But, any rule you make or change is going to be met with opposition from someone.
I've seen guys called out for stepping on the wrong 1st base. Did it cost them the game? Maybe..
I remember when I used to umpire little league..The losing coach could always point to a call I made that cost him the game, not some of the dumb decisions he made during the game.



April 13, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Leftie, a few of us have been honest enough to have been talking about the bats for quite a while now. I don't care what bats are used, but if safety is going to be an alleged issue than the bats HAVE to be looked at.

and it has always been the case where the teams make FAAAAR more mistakes than the umps do.
April 13, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
It takes integrity and courage
flexibility and care
to admit mistakes were made
that disaffect others.
I've heard behind the scenes
SSUSA admits they 'screwed up'
but doesn't want us to think they did.
Understandable and wrong.
And remember that 2 step approach
to dumbing down the balls I was talking
about earlier.
It's simple that once you make
home runs outs which endangers pitchers
and short infielders
the next step when people complain
is to move to a "safer" ball.
Get involved,
Connect the dots and follow the money.
It's our game and investment
they're messing with.
April 13, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
"It's our game and investment
they're messing with."

But I thought this was no longer your association.

And what "investment"? It is an expenditure. You are NOT getting any return on the money you spend to play a few games against a very few teams.
April 13, 2009
Stretch14
Men's 50
185 posts
Get him out of here.
April 14, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
YES, "einstein" should be removed.
April 14, 2009
hitt2
354 posts
Stretch14
Who are you referring to?
April 14, 2009
stick8
1268 posts
First the PPR rule is dumb and should be eliminated. But since that's not likely the umpires should call it consistently. Some are under the idea that a batted ball has to strike the pitcher. Others are under the idea that it just simply has to go thru the box for it to be an out.
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