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Discussion: Overheard at the parks

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April 27, 2009
Lecak
Men's 55
1012 posts
Overheard at the parks
We don't want to play the upper teams because if we win we'll get moved up. NICE.
April 27, 2009
birdie
Men's 60
687 posts
It figures, lets play down so we can win easy.I do not think there is much fun in winning easy. It is all about the competition and a few beers in the parking lot.
April 27, 2009
the wood
1096 posts
Joe, as you know, GSF wasn't around at the end of the 60 M/M+ division. We finished behind 3 M teams. Who won it?
As it relates to the comment that you made to open this thread, this has been going on for a really long time. Teams are more than willing to pick up M+ players and they thoroughly relish beating M+ teams. But they don't want to play in the M+ division because of various reasons. Their primary theme is that we don't have any money and we don't hit HRs as often as the M+ teams. Once the games begin money seems to be a distant thought.
HRs? I believe that anyone that watched the HRs being hit in LV this past weekend would doubt that the M teams were at any disadvantage... unltd HRs, 1.2 bats, lively balls, 30 mph winds blowing out, etc.
It was stated on a previous thread that GSF, because it is partially sponsored, has the picked the LA area clean of its best M+ players. To be perfectly honest, we only have 1 player from LA County, one from Riverside County and 2 from Orange County... that's 4 guys out of an area that includes close to 20 million people. Given that 2 of the teams that we played are from So Cal, I'd say that we haven't destroyed the talent pool. I should also note that MTC has one from LA County, too. Still, five guys out of how many?
I don't know which teams made the statements that you heard. But until the ranking committees get their heads out of the sand, we will continue to deal with this same stuff. The bottom line is that many teams will 'play down' as long as the associations allow them to do so. Some of them will only advance when they're led kicking and screaming or when they're convinced that they can dominate.
Sorry for going off on a tangent with this thread, Joe. It really has become a bigger problem than before because we (M+ teams) travel to events and play 2-3 other teams while the upper M teams pay the same entry fee (and travel expenses) and play 8-9 other teams. When we used to beat them regularly we didn't feel so strongly about it. Times have changed but the ranking committee hasn't.
I commend these same teams for their improvement but, come on, it's time to play where you belong. I have not named them because I have friends on these teams but they know who they are.
BW
April 27, 2009
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2734 posts
Someone recently posted that "everyone isn't suppose to win." (I'm hoping it wasn't Dirty!) I agree.
Two divisions are enough in qualifiers. For nationals, 3 divisions.
I'll say it again, the Florida Sluggers were cheated when told they would only be play exhibition games because they were the only M+ team there. Two other teams declined to attend because they were told they would be playing M+.
Maybe the associations should give tee shirts just for participation.
Most, if not all of the teams in the 50, 55 and 60 Platinum division in the Springnational could have won.
If needed, let the M+ teams spot the M teams 5 runs. Many M+ teams would love the challange.
April 27, 2009
butch17
Men's 55
415 posts
Maybe they should have 3 divisions major,AAA,AA with winners moving up.Have a seperate division with unlimited runs and homeruns that is a voluntary division so the teams that want to hit 20 or 30 homeruns a game can.This way no one can complain they dont get enough homeruns. If you are a Major team and hit homeruns for outs instead of complaining move up to the voluntary division problem solved.The organizations can charge more for this division to compensate for time and balls.The teams in the voluntary division can get their schedule together so they could be at the same tourneys. More teams to play no complaining. This should make everybody happy but we are seniors so I'm not sure about that.:)
April 27, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4403 posts
butch17,
When will they get or cause a move down? Play in a 3 team bracket division tourney and place last or 6th in a 6 team bracket?
What if, they are of different ages \rankings... what if what if...
But something needs to be done somewhere whit a lot of items. It all takes time. Somechanges come too fast also.
April 27, 2009
butch17
Men's 55
415 posts
taits,
Only move up when you win a national with 6 or more teams.Still have age groups. Used to be when we were young you finished 1st or 2nd in national automatic move up next year. After that you had to apply to home office or commissioner to get moved downed. Players were also rated could only move down with organization permission and only one class a year.I,m really confused by the new rating system. They have a summit but if you win in one organization that really doesn't matter in the other.You play in a 6 team ss/usa tourney and win you move up. A different team plays in a 20 team tourney in different organization wins probaly a lot of the above 6 teams are in same tourney but that doesnt mean anything to ss/usa as far as rating goes. So why the summit? just let each organization have their own rating and do away with the summit all together.
April 27, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4403 posts
butch17,
Problem w\ that is that there are too few tourneys that have 6 teams with same ranking\age bracketed divisions in tourneys, for a long time now. There are some but are they qualifiers or the major ones.
You can't live in the past. Only now and for the future. As for rating system, I think we are all as you say "confused". This summit members are not on the same page. And what they are is looking out for themselves for the long haul. which you can't blame them for. Why the summit, to put it bluntly, a tax write off, a nice working business trip. If they actually shared info it could serve each for rating in a like manner rather than what we have now. But no one wants to share their info or take the time to correlate it for a meaningful purpose.

April 27, 2009
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
wood i started play with stoneage out of san diego in 01.we started as a AA team,by the end of july we were moved to AAA and the next yr(starting in nov) we played major.well we tried to not go up from AA but sacramento denied us,guess what we went and won the westerns at AAA and finsihed second at the worlds that yr in vegas.after that we just went and picked up a couple more guys b/c we were moved to major,no prol.we used to play you guys,mavericks,lv stars all the time with no prol.we thought it made us better when we did play in our own div.yes i think sometimes sacramento does move a team up to quickly,but i've seen many more not moved up and just beat up on teams.don't know how these teams get to stay down but somehow they do.i think 3 div would be great-lo rec,hi rec and open.
April 28, 2009
DesertDave
Men's 60
74 posts
Wood,
It was good to see you again. To answer your question, we (Robson Ranch) won our division. Although we have to give much of the credit to the two REAL M+ guys who helped us. We really enjoyed playing with Big Hank and Steve. They are true gentlemen and GREAT ball players. We had 4 guys that couldn't make the trip, and their addition for this tournament was welcomed. I still don't know why our game with you was the only one with unlimited homeruns. Those 30+ MPH winds blowing straight out definitely helped us stay closer. I'm pretty sure you would agree that our team is not M+ yet. We have been working to close the gap, and hopefully with some more work we will get there. Remember, the only reason we ended up with more runs than you was the extra runs you had to give us. I think the idea of 3 divisions may have merritt. We aren't guaranteed the right to win. We are only supposed to have competitive games, with the chance of winning. I think 3 divisions would solve a lot of the issues with small brackets, and make sand bagging harder.
Sorry for the rambling. Again it was great to see you again. Thanks again to Hank and Steve.
On a side note: Now I can say that I have met the STONEMAN.
WOW!
April 28, 2009
the wood
1096 posts
Dave, I agree with everything that you said... we didn't really like giving up the 5 runs since you had picked up Hank and Steve. But we didn't feel so strongly that we would prevent them from playing with you. We did notice that you only had a minimum number of players. Our game could have gone either way, even with the 5 runs.
Congratulations!
:-)
BW
April 28, 2009
stick8
1324 posts
Birdie, for me it's all about the beers in the parking lot afterwards.
FWIW, get rid of the m+ division--at least in the 50's.
April 28, 2009
butch17
Men's 55
415 posts
taits,
That was my point by going to 3 division there would be more teams to play.
stick8,
You have been hanging around Coors Lite:)
April 28, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4403 posts
Not lately.
I'd go so far as to say 3 would be better than 4 as you say, but finding the(right mix) who, where, & when they move would be as challenge, are you up for it?

April 28, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
(I'm hoping it wasn't Dirty!)

What is that supposed to mean? :)
April 28, 2009
lazer larry
Men's 50
96 posts
stick8, how do you know my original nickname(birdie) or is there another. Watch it "butch", you sat in on a short session in the parking lot before with us. See you at Indy. Lazer Larry, Coors Light
April 28, 2009
butch17
Men's 55
415 posts
lazer larry,
Yes I have sat in on a short session before and will do again in Indy.Will see you this week-end.

taits yes would be glad to do it. Its really not rocket science just common sense and putting everybody on equal terms as far as criteria.
Butch
April 28, 2009
FOFO
Men's 50
174 posts
Three divisions could help. They would probably have to be Major, AAA and AA as I doubt there are many teams interested in playing Major Plus. Standing around watching guys hit 5 home runs an inning wouldn't be much fun and frankly our team has no desire to do so, and if you judge it by the small amount of teams playing in that division, I would say a lot of other teams feel the same way.
April 28, 2009
butch17
Men's 55
415 posts
Thats why I suggested a voluntary division for those teams that want to hit unlimited homeruns. Once you play in that division you are there for the year. It would be almost like the Super Division was when we were younger. If you want to move the next year from the vol. div. you must petition the powers to be and let them decide. This should be a cure for the teams that want to play in tourney's with more teams in their division and the teams that want more homeruns. SS/USA's re-rating secret in-depth system has not increased the Major Plus participation
as far as I've read on this board. You can not increase a division by a net 2or3 (after move-ups and move-downs) and increase the number of teams showing up to tourneys in that division. I can only speak for myself but I feel cheated that I have to go from 10 tourney's a year to 5 or 6 because there will only be 0 to 2 teams to play in our division so we have to pick and choose the tourney's where there are several teams to play.
April 28, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4403 posts
butch17,
Maybe you should\could volunteer your services to the assn. with a proposal.

April 29, 2009
stick8
1324 posts
Butch17, one time hanging with those Coors Light guys is all it takes. They told me they'd even tailgate in a Home Depot parking lot!!
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