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Discussion: WHAT BALL FOR RENO

Posted Discussion
May 17, 2009
CRUSADERVB
Men's 65
272 posts
WHAT BALL FOR RENO
I HEARD WE WERE USING A 52/275 BALL. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE AND OR PROOF THAT WE WILL BE USING THIS ''SOCK''!!!!!!!!
May 17, 2009
ShaneV
Men's 55
382 posts
I recently ordered balls for our SSUSA senior league through Fran. Supplier (Anaconda/Trump/SSUSA) was out at the time but expected new supply last Tuesday 5/12. My order should be on the way and should continue to be the SSUSA standard 44/375, let's hope. Played this weekend senior other association no senior bats, 44/400 balls saw few HR's no jump like our balls and bats. Looking forward to league this week on new fields and heading to Reno next.
May 17, 2009
JamesLG
303 posts

Shane:
You are right about the balls and bats we used this weekend. Our team only hit 3 out total and we had 4 hit out by the teams we were playing, 3 of those were by a major team. It was hard to get the right spin on the balls to get them out even if they were hit hard enough. If all senior tourneys used this equipment it would no doubt run some players out of the game. The team from Portland sure kicked our tails in the championship.
Thanks:

James
May 17, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
SSUSA reserves the right to change the ball any time they want,
I was told by an SSUSA official, most recently.
They tested the 525x52 ball in Elk Grove
this past weekend.
They should publish the results
and/or make their opinions heard.
It was roundly slammed by the players
as not good enough for senior use.
Some guys said, No freakin' way
or they'd retire if they go to that
wretch of a ball.
They didn't like the feel, sound,
flight, bounce or performance
generally speaking.
You should find out what SSUSA's position is on it for Reno,
all those who plan to go.



May 17, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Correction
that was 275x52 ball and not
525x52 ball as stated above
May 17, 2009
softballer
Men's 55
560 posts
trust me Joe the ball ncssa use is junk too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the ones in Yuba city this weekend anyway! so much for good balls! c ya Joe!
May 18, 2009
tattooball
620 posts
The balls in Reno are the only balls approved for ss-usa and they are .44/375.
May 18, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Kevin,
I was told
SSUSA will use any ball they want to
but you sound comfortable speaking
for them
saying they won't be using that sock
they experimented with in Elk Grove.
That's a smart move because you'd incur
the wrath of many seniors if you pushed
it, now.
One question.
The 44x375 ball you refer to as approved
for SSUSA use.
What version of that ball
will SSUSA be using.
One's they bought last year or
New ones you sent them with new specifications/limits for this year?
Can you explain?
May 18, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
And where's the results that
were concluded by SSUSA and their reps
regarding the sock they hit in Elk Grove?
More dodging?
C'mon, man.
Tell the truth.
We can handle it.
May 18, 2009
batter4u
Men's 65
76 posts
don't know much about the ball used in Hayward over the past weekend except that it was stamped ASA,sounded like a sock most of the time and didnt see but a couple hit almost to the warning track in 5 games,,,, with that ball, who needs a home run ruleor a good bat,,,,,,all you need is a cheap bat from goodwill to hit bloopers over the infield,,,
May 18, 2009
the wood
1085 posts
I have been told, by good authority, that they will use the standard ball (Trump Stote 44/375) and that anything else is simply not true.
BW
May 18, 2009
CRUSADERVB
Men's 65
272 posts
THANKS TERRY FOR CLEARING UP THE ''RUMOR''.
May 18, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Roger,
I pitched in Hayward on Saturday
and couldn't help but notice
the balls to the feel
were cold.
I mean refrigerator cold
when introduced to the game.
I never asked why or how
but they in fact were cold
and came off the bats well.
By noon,
we played East Bay with Sal and some of their hitting gorillas
and none of 'em even got close
to hitting a ball out of the park.

The balls have gotten worse over the last 2 years and anyone that says they haven't has been playin senior ball
on another planet
and manufacturers and TD's have been taking it
upon themselves to dial them all down
up to the new 375 x 44 ball
that is being spread around now.
If SSUSA goes with the changes
and the new ball specs/limits
the ball in Reno though it says
44x375 will be very different from the one used last year in Phoenix
and everyone there will know it.
If not, then Bravo for SSUSA
for not playing into that game
and keeping the ball standard up
for players to enjoy.
Till then.


May 18, 2009
JamesLG
303 posts

I will add that anybody who thinks using a softer ball that does not perform does not effect the gap or singles hitter is out of tune on this issue. Many of the normal shots in the gaps just float and are caught.
If this is what the future of senior softball is all about there will be a lot more localized tourneys where you roll your own rules and equipment.

Thanks:

James
May 18, 2009
db14
91 posts
Just my two cents regarding the balls used in Yuba City (Nor Cal) 5/16-5/17 and prior. They were an embarrassment to the game, the players and the sponsors who graciously spend their money enabling us to play. I might caution the tournament directors who may be doing this to save or make a buck or minimize chasing balls....this may backfire.
May 18, 2009
gary#27nor.ca.storm
Men's 55
58 posts
joe they have changed the ball spec. talk to one guy in wa. and they said the same thing.the new 44/375 are not the same.The balls in hayword were bad.Something has change but there not telling us.Reno better have what they say or i guess we bring our balls or play some where else.Senior softball don't ruin our game no more.
May 19, 2009
SOFTBALL6
18 posts
We ordered new balls for our league here in Houston. Kevin informed us that the old balls we had been using were not available until late May. So, he sent us the ones marked with ASA saying they were the same ball. WRONG! They are nothing close to the old ball! I have been watching the discussions between Einstein and Kevin and now am starting to question Kevin's verasity. Obviously these balls are different. It does'nt take a rocket scientist or an Einstein to hit 2 balls and tell the difference. I am told we will be returning the ASA balls and hopefully be getting the old ones back.
May 19, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Kevin,
I just found out from SSUSA
that they're expecting to get
the same ball or caliber ball
that they used in Reno
and Phoenix last year.
You know, the good old version of the 44x375.
They said you'd be the only one who could respond to the query on which version of balls you'll be sending to Reno.
The players both want and have a right to know.
Which ball did you send to Reno?
May 19, 2009
Foothills
Men's 55
76 posts
Talked to some players who were at Elk Grove . Said that only the one or two "best hitters" on the "best 50 Major Plus teams" will be able to hit this ball out on average once a game . If this is the case , ball is dead . The majority will not vote a ball in , that take the fun out of the game for them . Doesen`t matter who or how much it is promoted as ' the answere " .
May 19, 2009
tattooball
620 posts
Foothills,
Trump or anaconda is not promoting this ball for senior softball, that is just 1 more fairy tale. They tried the ball to see what all of the B..S. is about. Could this help some age groups? Maybe. But not for senior softbal as a whole.

Just as I was vilified that I would send hot balls for the testing, there is no need to because this ball neutralizes the bats and lord knows the seniors have to have the bats.

This is for the younger associations where cheating is rampant and there are 2 bat standards. This is bring it much closer to reality that they will share 1 bat standard and 1 ball standard.
May 19, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Kevin,
You got more moves
than a girl on a pole.
That ball deprives
any player of any age
of an intrinsically good feeling
when hitting it and as such
will never be acceptable.
While you're at it
what ball are you sending to Reno?
The good one from last year
or the more restricted new one
that's been showing up
lots of places, this year?
And when did you Captain of the softball police.
I thought you were into selling
bats and balls.
Guys who have hit both the balls Stoneman got from you
and the ones in Elk Grove say
they're not the same balls.
Can you explain?
May 19, 2009
JamesLG
303 posts

Folks:

This ball issue needs to be put on the table before and not after a tournament. All it takes is a couple at bats to tell if the balls are any good. Last weekend we saw first hand how a ball can alter a tournament and it makes you wonder who is really running the show when it comes to senior softball. What did we do to deserve this?

James
May 19, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
hey guys maybe you should be asking the company that actually makes the balls not the company selling them.a yr or so ago the decker's went soft and so did the evil balls,turns out the company(or company's) making them did not have a good quality control going on for them.i don't know if the decker's are still being made but the evil's were corrected from what i've heard on the board's.
also remember if your getting an ASA ball for your tourney's"ya get what ya pay for" ASA has the softest ball around.
May 19, 2009
Tim Millette
498 posts
The problem with the test ball in Elk Grove last weekend was there was no old ball to compare it to.

In the future if balls are going to be tested in practice events maybe play three innings with the old balls and four innings with the new.

It was over 100 degrees in Elk Grove last weekend...the balls sat in the box in the sun all day...

Not the best conditions for testing.

There has been talk about other associations using two different core/compression balls in other tourneys in the future...One ball for over 78 degrees...one ball for under 78 degrees....JUST SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT. Helmer is pushing the idea.
May 19, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Tim,
Welcome to senior ball.
You are an elite long ball hitter
and have much to say
that is relevant to our experience
but you could hit a sock
300 feet and are not a typical
senior power hitter.
A ball you can handle OK
might not be a ball that good to very good hitters can handle and the biggest
draw back to using a sock like that
275x52 ball is for the AAA and AA guys
and older age groups
who are unable to get enough pace
on the ball to get it by or through
gaps and holes.
A sock is a sock is a sock
and the most of us, Tim,
don't like hitting 'em.
Good to see you in senior ball.
May 19, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey again, Tim.
What's you view on the PPR and
HR's as outs?
May 19, 2009
Foothills
Men's 55
76 posts
Tim, temperature always will affect the balls and thus our games . I have had it explained to me , that a ball loses around 5 lbs. of compression for every degree over 75 and picks up 5 lbs. for every degree under 75 . So if the idea is to be hitting a 375 lb. ball. Then yes , we should use a higher compression ball when it is over 80 degrees and a lower one when under . Say a 325 lb. under and a 450 lb. ball over .
May 19, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
A ball you can handle OK
might not be a ball that good to very good hitters can handle and the biggest
draw back to using a sock like that
275x52 ball is for the AAA and AA guys

joe your quote above about tim.

joe there in lies the problem,AA and AAA should not be hitting hr's like it nothing.i'm thinking the 2 lower div's are for the more rec player and not for someone to be pumping up thier ego.so by saying the ball is not good for these 2 div's is not a good arguement.like i've said before the ball is ok to use,no your not gonna get 400's out of it,but who needs them when most all your fence's are at 300'.i've played some games with it and the ball gets thru the inf pretty quick.yeah if you hit that mishit lazy fly type ball that will go over accidently,then no you are no gonna be rewarded for that type of swing,and which you shouldn't be.
May 19, 2009
Foothills
Men's 55
76 posts
Tim, temperature always will affect the balls and thus our games . I have had it explained to me , that a ball loses around 5 lbs. of compression for every degree over 75 and picks up 5 lbs. for every degree under 75 . So if the idea is to be hitting a 375 lb. ball. Then yes , we should use a higher compression ball when it is over 80 degrees and a lower one when under . Say a 325 lb. under and a 450 lb. ball over .
May 20, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
SSUSA says they're contracted for
and fully expect to get the good balls,
the 375x44 Stotes they got from Trumpball last year
for Phoenix and Reno.
And interestingly
Kevin's not talking.
I think that means they'll be good balls in Reno but for the life of me
I'm not really sure.

I hear Ridge fired his ball company
after SPA last year
for taking it upon itself to send
balls the players didn't like.
Ridge was very upset I was told
and there's some very prominent teams that won't go back this year because
they're still upset and don't trust what caliber balls
will be used.
Also, we've heard that some ball companies have gotten so scared about making balls that are out of specification
that they've dialed down the compression
that was normal in balls made
in the last couple of years
way back.

Kevin.
You out there?
Which balls did you send to Reno?
Can you explain.
May 20, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Tim Millette and I conversed
after a BP a couple of weeks ago
sharing how incredibly short sighted
it is to change HR's to outs
when good bats/balls are being used.
Having both played in
a ton of tournaments
and Tim way more than me,
we both agreed that all the good hitters
would be driving balls down
and mostly through the middle
without the oppty
to take them deep and out of the park.
Tim, for those of you who don't know
is one of the premier long ball hitters
in the country and a terrific guy.
So, if you use good equipment,
bats and balls, which we all expect,
want and deserve in senior ball
you must leave HR's as singles/walks
or you've just made the game
more dangerous than it was.
That change of rules
directly threatens, all by itself,
the safety of senior ball players
and should be changed back
as soon as possible.
We all know the PPR at best
simply doesn't work as a deterrent.

For a while
there was a buzz created
about the new "safe ball"
and some of us waited thinking
it might be the answer
but
the 52x275,
as we've learned
is a sock and won't work
for hitting or fielding.

Going back to a good bat/ball combo
means going back the safety
and enjoyment we've been accustomed to
in senior ball at least as long as I've been playing it (12 years)
or moving forward with masks
or screens or changing some rules
for pitchers as I have said long ago
that will make the game safer
without taking away the fun.
That's the key.
You can enlarge the matt,
give the pitchers more height,
change to 1-1 count,
move the rubber back and make it wider
and these moves all by themselves
make the game safer without neutering
it and us along the way.
May 20, 2009
butch17
Men's 55
415 posts
I'm sorry but this discussion about using different balls every 5 degrees of temperature is insane. If that is what it is coming to we should just say we are going to play when it is 75 degrees only. If the temperature goes to 76 or 74 the game is over and can't resume until it goes back to 75.:)
May 21, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
dang butch that surely would of had us not playing in st george last yr(40 deg's)LOL

usssa had that going last couple of yrs,i think it was over 85 deg's and they use a 47-525 and under 85 was a 44-400 ball.
May 21, 2009
Foothills
Men's 55
76 posts
Mad Dog , USSA obviously is trying to provide the best possible playing conditions . Nothing wrong with that . Just shows respect for your customers . Since our bats are better we could obtain the same results by using 44-450 over and a 44-300 under . This way we would always be close to the 44-375 , that we are supposed to be at .
May 21, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
foothills do u mean SS-USA or USSSA.i have nothing against hitting a good ball(and i have to play ASA here where i'm at,ugh),but it seems like some people get way to worked up over some trival things here.we get to hit the hottest bats around(for senior's),why not go with a lesser ball to have some amount of saftey,hr limits(or having none),PPR and such do nothing to protect a pitcher.balls will be hit up the middle regardless of any rule,accidents always will happen.do you or want to see one of your friends become the one who is seriously hurt,i personally don't want to see it.
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