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Discussion: Texas State Championships

Posted Discussion
June 14, 2009
LP
293 posts
Texas State Championships
its funny i didnt see anything in the chat room about the texas championships other than the postings. i read alot about other championships going on, was just wondering why the texas boys dont talk much or the few that come from out of state.
this same tournament was held in dallas last year as well as this year, the umpires last year didnt have a clue about the PPR as well as the director and it cost us the championship last year this year we just played bad.
although a team that cheated in georgetown this year was in the finals in this years texas championships. this has got you to wonder is this just all about making money,and heck with the teams.

thats all i feel better now good luck to all.
June 14, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
last yr at the texas champs there was no PPR rule,it didn't come about till a month or so later.at best this rule is ambiguous(PPR)and does nothing to protect the pitcher.
now also for a diff matter there,a 50 team(major or AAA)that had 4 or 5 M+ players on thier team.this was confirmed by one of thier teamates who saw them there playing after he was denied to play.
June 14, 2009
J R
182 posts
Tournament got off to a bad start got 10 inches of rain Wednesday. Everyone played a lot of softball.I think some rosters were overloaded with impact players. Great tournament. The people in charge will sort out the rosters and adjust the ratings. My team Texas Xperts won 65aaa. Great job Keith and Paula. ppr rule was consistant
June 15, 2009
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
mad dog,
The PPR rule WAS in affect at last years Texas champs, it wasn't called until very late in the tournament, and they did not have a clue about it.I talked to SEVERAL pictures at ALL levels in Dallas this past weekend, and none of them wanted a PPR.,

Good luck and I thought Keith and Paula did a fine job, was some changes I didn't understand .
June 15, 2009
LP
293 posts
this tears texas tournament was much better than last year,thats for sure.keith has learned alot,and got good help from steve simmons.
about last year, the PPR wasnt called on sta. but on sunday it was called if it went through the pitchers box and not even hitting the pitcher,what cost us the championship last year was the umpire would call the batter out with a line drive a few feet above the pitchers head.then pitchers would get drilled and no out called. the PPR rule protects no one, but the most dangerous ruleis the new home run rule as in our division (3) home runs then and out where are the big guns going to go, hard up the middle.
the best equalizer is the one up home run rule,and singles accordingly.

June 15, 2009
SOFTBALL6
18 posts
La Legends(AAA) had to drive 8 hours to get to Dallas only to play 4 games before we got to play another AAA team. How can you seed a AAA bracket when you play a AA team and a major team in seed play? The team that won added 3 65 Major players (all 3 home run hitters) to their roster on Friday evening. The Dallas Spurs (AA) played in the AAA bracket and the tourney director said he did'nt know why they were not in the AA bracket. The fields were great, the ground crew did a great job and the umpiring was just OK in our games. We were glad to hear that next years tourney was going to be 3 days instead of two. One team had to forfeit a game because they had played 4 games back to back on Saturday afternoon in the Dallas heat.
We only had one PPR incident and it was called correctly by the umpire. Still a bad rule as is the home run rule imho.
June 15, 2009
TexasTransplant
Men's 70
420 posts
This has the potential to be a very good tournament in the future. The facilities at Keist Park are great. There seems to be a lot of interest in a tournament of this type in the Dallas area.

The ground crews did an excellent job of getting the fields playable for Friday's games after the monsoon that blew through on Wednesday night and Thursday.

The heat and humidity worked it's magic on the balls, but if you don't want to play in the heat, don't come to Texas in the summer. It's just starting to warm up. I saw very few home runs in the games I played in or watched. Maybe the younger guys hit more.

I played in both the 65 and 60 tournaments and only saw the PPR called one time; that being on a line drive that drilled the pitcher in the thigh. I saw numerous other plays where the pitcher made a fielding attempt on the ball and the PPR was not invoked. According to my understanding of the rule, it was called correctly and consistently throughout the ten games in which I participated. In my view, and contrary to my expectation, the PPR was pretty much a non-factor. I thought that by an large the umps did an outstanding job.

There were some scheduling issues: Our 60+ team (Dallas Spurs) had to play 6 games on Saturday (would only have been 5, but we had to play an extra pool game in order for another team to get its guaranteed games because someone pulled out of the tournament).

This tournament fills a need for a major SSUSA tournament in this part of the world. Give it a chance and it could become a very good one.


June 15, 2009
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
My question is,The Dallas Spurs over 60 are rated AAA in this association.We played them in Baytown before all the rain on Sat. and they were AAA, then we go to Dallas and the tournament director told us that they lowered them to AA after this tournament started.How can that be, I thought by everything I have read and heard that the ONLY one who can lower a team in ratings is SSUSA AND ONLY BY THE APPEAL PROCESS.Is that right or wrong ? We had to spot them 5 runs and we won but it didn't set well with us.You thoughts or opions pleaes.
Thanks.
June 15, 2009
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
Not Keith, but the man who was helping Keith out told us this.
June 15, 2009
SteveSimmons
66 posts
Dear Sir,

My name is Steven Simmons and I was the SSUSA director who traveled to Texas to help Keith Parker administrate the SSWC Texas State Championships. A SSWC tournament director has the authority, with permission from the home office, to apply or remove the "equalizer" rule if it is deemed a team's playing ability is above or below the skill level at which they have been rated.

This occurs very infrequently and typically is enforced in early season tournaments where teams are still "searching" for their identities.

In the case of the Dallas Spurs 60's team they played in seven games and were outscored in all seven games by actual scores of 18-4, 27-7, 11-5, 18-14, 27-9, 14-7 and 22-8. Only once did they score in double figures and, with the assistance of the equalizer rule, that resulted in their only win. In this particular circumstance I believe it was the right decision to allow the Dallas Spurs 60's to receive the equalizer rule.
June 15, 2009
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
Steve,
If I am correct, we beat them by a score of 14-12.I am pretty sure that is right, I could be wrong, but that game if it was 14-12 doesn't show in your above message.If I am wrong, I stand corrected.I still understood that the RATINGS COMMITTEE, was the only one who could raise or lower a team, again I stand corrected if that is the case.I thought that was the reason for the rating appeals we have to file.
June 15, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
Steve S.
Here is what SSUSA has written;
We are making these team-rating changes early in the season so that teams have a chance to play in 3 or more tournaments with the new ratings under the new rules. If after 3 tournaments, teams feel they are not able to compete at their new skill level, they can appeal their rating.
During the course of the season, we will also be re-evaluating teams and sending out our recommendations to our 10 anonymous key ratings advisers. These advisers operate in a double-blind system in which we do not release their names and they do not know the other advisers. This allows them to observe and make recommendations without undue outside influence.
----
Seems strange to me that you use Number of games as opposed to number of tournaments.
Score do look bad i will admit, but we all have them.
June 15, 2009
SteveSimmons
66 posts
You did beat them by a posted score of 14-12, with the equalizer rule applied. But the actual score was 14-7 and that is what I was looking at to judge their capabilities, the actual scores of their games.

As we get later in the season hopefully most teams will be rated in the skill levels where they properly belong and this exercise will not be required.

Best of luck to you with the rest of your 2009 season!
June 15, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
Steve S.
Here is what SSUSA has written;
We are making these team-rating changes early in the season so that teams have a chance to play in 3 or more tournaments with the new ratings under the new rules. If after 3 tournaments, teams feel they are not able to compete at their new skill level, they can appeal their rating.
During the course of the season, we will also be re-evaluating teams and sending out our recommendations to our 10 anonymous key ratings advisers. These advisers operate in a double-blind system in which we do not release their names and they do not know the other advisers. This allows them to observe and make recommendations without undue outside influence.
----
Seems strange to me that you use Number of games as opposed to number of tournaments.
Score do look bad i will admit, but we all have them.
June 15, 2009
SteveSimmons
66 posts
You did beat them by a posted score of 14-12, with the equalizer rule applied. But the actual score was 14-7 and that is what I was looking at to judge their capabilities, the actual scores of their games.

As we get later in the season hopefully most teams will be rated in the skill levels where they properly belong and this exercise will not be required.

Best of luck to you with the rest of your 2009 season!
June 15, 2009
SteveSimmons
66 posts
I should add that I did not change the team's rating, that must be handled by the ratings committee. I allowed the "equalizer" rule to be used in this one particular instance, with the approval of the SSUSA home office.
June 15, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
Are we not mid way into the year? 2010 starts in Nov, this is June. Is that part of the Double-Blind reference (ssusa referred to) as far as the not changing rating goes but rather just who you end up playing against and with or without the equalizer?
Different strokes for different folks.

Good luck Kenny.
June 15, 2009
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
taits,how you doing?Are you playing much ?Hot, hot , hot in Texas.I believe they said it was 107 on the fields in Dallas.One team had to play 6 games in one day !Can't wait until Phoenix and Vegas, did you say you could or could not make those ?
Good luck and take care, are you ever coming back to Spicewood and Lake Travis ?
June 15, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
#6,
You have mail...& forgot to add we're only in the 80's, Quite mild for us.
June 15, 2009
T-44
9 posts
The PPR worked well in our case. Had 2 incidents and both showed what senior softball is about. Both hitters after hitting the pitcher, immediately walked to the mound with concern for the pitcher. Neither thought about first base first. Give Dallas Spurs a break at AA so they can compete and stay together. They are good guys.
T44 TurfPro
June 15, 2009
armiho211
Men's 70
410 posts
a little more info concerning the dallas spurs 60's, last year they were a bonafide AAA team . during the 2008 LVSSA tournament in las vegas, 4 of the best players told the manager they were leaving the team EFFECTIVE THE END OF THE LVSSA TOURNAMENT. those 4 players are currently playing for a 60 major team. i am not sure if the spurs manager asked to be dropped to AA effective this year or not. but i can tell you that they are truly a AA TEAM. the scores listed above reflect their rating . my .02c
June 15, 2009
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
Guys, nobody said the Dallas Spurs are not a bunch of good guys, they are great guys ! This is about SSUSA and all the rating ---- that goes on this message board.We have been told countless times about how to go about getting lowered in the rankings, I never heard anyone asking to be raised up.Maybe happens, I just never heard of it.Also, I have never seen it happen at a tournament, usually see it on the rating section of whatever association you go too.I do believe they belong in AA too, but then why were they in a AAA bracket when there were several AA teams for them to play ? Just wondering !
June 15, 2009
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
Steve Simmons, If you give them the equalizer runs, is that not the same thing as lowering them ? I have never seen one AAA team give another AAA team 5 runs.
June 15, 2009
LP
293 posts
i want to say that all the teams in the 60's AAA division at the Texas championships showed great sportsmanship, hope to see all of you in future games, that, one team that played four games in a row and then it was going to be 5 in a row and they forfieted just to keep from having heat stroke was very smart and it was not good planning to put a team in that position.
LP tanel/360
June 15, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
hey guys the PPR rule was not instituded until around 1 aug by ssusa.our tx champs was in june last yr.so no it was not there.i heard of it being used later(after june) and guys complaining about it.i do know i did not play in the tourney that it was first used in texas,and i did play in the texas champs that june.

steve you quit playing,wish i had seen ya there.
June 16, 2009
the wood
1085 posts
Bob, the PPR was actually included into the SSUSA rules in January of 2008. It was one of the 9 items discussed by the M+ Task Force and, at the time (Aug '08), it was modified to include ground balls as well as line drives. Since then, it has been further amended.
There were several SSUSA events that didn't use it last year, for whatever reason. Perhaps the tourney that you mentioned was one of them.
BW
June 16, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
yes wood it was for the M+ guys.it did not come for us (AAA) until jul or aug.
LP do you play M+ if so yes you prolly had to play with the PPR rule.
#6 we(texas legends) played you(tanel) guys in the AAA and didn't have the rule.if it was there then it was never called.
June 16, 2009
the wood
1085 posts
Bob, you are correct... it was in August that SSUSA expanded that rule to all of its divisions.
BW
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