http://www.seniorsoftballstore.com

 
SIGN IN:   Password     »Sign up

Message board   »Message Board home    »Sign-in or register to get started

Online now: 0 members ; 14 anonymous
Change topic:

Discussion: team ratings

Posted Discussion
July 6, 2009
grumpy55
Men's 60
102 posts
team ratings
I noticed some teams as of July 5th have been rerated. I only looked at the 50s and 55S.
July 6, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4344 posts
There are a few for July in the 60\65's as well, but I do not know if any were RE-rated..... of stayed the same.
At least you know updates are going on. So if your team was rated differently you won't know unless you check.
July 6, 2009
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
taits, first of all thanks for sending the e-mail.Now to this rating update.We were rated in March 5, 2008.Funny, we didn't even have a over 60 team until Feb. or March of 2009, tell me how that works.
TAKE CARE.
July 6, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4344 posts
Don't take this for Gospel, & not remembering where you were rated, It goes something like this, if you kept the 6-7 of your team members you had before and just changed age bracket &\or maybe name as well, you should stay the same...
If you got moved,(up) chances are it was due to a win somewhere along the line.
But if memory serves me, it doesn't always, any move is after 3 tournaments. I don't think there is a phrase saying WHICH tourneys, over what period of time or which Assn put it on, if any, however.
i think that might be the loophole to get around having to explain it, like why the ppr - dbo thing.
also, it may well have been part of the overall re-rating of teams earlier.
Just make your game days better than your opponents days.
But knowing it appears there is this going on, should keep managers checking after a win or loss in ANY tournament they enter.
Maybe TX can buy CA now that their broke, again, and build a bridge so we can be adjoining states. lol
July 6, 2009
hitt2
354 posts
Taits
How's it going? Well the expected happened. We are now AAA. I would say that teams that were re-ranked had it done so due to wins or demonstrating they were playing above their level and were moved down. Either way the tables are turning for all.
It's been good season so far, so we will continue to progress forward.
Hitt2
July 6, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4344 posts
Don't say I didn't warn you. Ernie now has his dream team. But nothing is forever, except death and taxes.
Enjoy the fruits you reap.
With what I've seen, read, I think the team could play up one more level.
July 6, 2009
hitt2
354 posts
Taits
No warning needed. Yes he has put together a very good team which I'm pleased to be a part of. There's one chief and a great Grp of guys forming a team not Superstars. I'm having one heck of a good time. I hope the magic continues at the next level. We'll see, we are going to play hard no matter the ranking. Are you going to Turlock this weekend?
Hitt2
July 6, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4344 posts
No, Am surprised it didn't fill up. (1 team shy) Great place to play, as long as the wind is not blowing, but at least no team has to go play in Oakdale.
July 7, 2009
Jawood
Men's 50
791 posts
We are sitting up here in the Northwest as a Major-plus team with nobody to play. We have played 14 games this season. The Major-plus tag has prevented us from entering local tournaments and the lack of teams on the West Coast makes for a lot of 3 team events which are not fun to play in.
July 8, 2009
Corky
Men's 55
446 posts
Don't feel like the lone ranger guys. They have us re-rated as of March of 08,(Major) and we played all of 08 as AAA. (Where we should be). Not only did they move us up (without justication) but they changed the town we play out of from Indianapolis to Mooresville?? BTW we haven't won a SINGLE GAME this YEAR. I guess we have to waste the money on one more butt kickin before we can apply to move back to where we belong. Boy my butt hurts. :} "Keep on Playin" anyhow.
July 8, 2009
hitt2
354 posts
Taits, Jawood and Corky
Taits, are you thinking about coming up, you need to get back to playing.

I guess I have a different take on thing related to the game. I'm old school. Put the strongest team on the field, bat a max of 12 until out of the hunt, and play according to the rules governing the event. Corky most have had to go through the same process to get re ranked its not always fun but the process for doing well at the previous level. This year it was seen as a need to increase the number at the Major and Major plus levels. They tried, but the economy has also been a factor in travel. IMHO I believe a three level system in this day an age would be most beneficial. The Major and Major plus should be combined and the true AAA will be reclassified. AA and AAA should be combined as they prove the teams a means to demonstrate a progress warranting them to be at the next level. Jawood you must be in Oregon or Washington. The number of teams in your area limits the numbers at the top levels. You've heard Einstein on numerous occasions speak the praises of our association. He plays with teams in the top ten and is a heck of a hitter and pitcher. Maybe your Tournament association could implement some of the things used in Northern Calif. In NCSSA major team in all age Grp are ranked in the top 50 out of the 100 + teams. 50, 55, 60 major teams play each other on a consistent basis but the twist to this is that a 55 team that is AAA or AA also play against Major teams also. In certain situations teams are spotted runs or allowed the additional fielder, when playing a younger team. The teams and players don't see the issue with this as it affords them to play better competition in preparation for the bigger softball event. (TO GET BETTER YOU SHOULD PLAY BETTER AND STRONGER TEAMS). The team I play for has done this it has helped us to reach another of our team goals. We believe we can compete at the next level if not then we too will have to go the same process Corky's team is dealing with to get reclassified or obtain personnel to maintain the level. Ranking procedures aren't always the way we want, but at least there are ways to repair it. Just like the PPR and the HR limits, they too can be changed and repair the game. JMO
Gentlemen best of luck this season and most of all, “Play the Game Love the Game!”
Hitt2
July 8, 2009
hitt2
354 posts

On the above response it should have read this way. Sorry about the typo.

The Major and Major plus should be combined and the true AAA will be reclassified. AA and AAA should not be combined as they provide the teams a means to demonstrate a progress warranting them to be at the next level
July 8, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4344 posts
hitt2,
Won't work Jef. Combining parts or teams from within each of the 4 to make 3 (AA, 3A and M or what ever they call it after words) I think would work.
But NO ONE will take the time to bring forward a rational reason with perhaps stats to back that decision, for the teams ending up where they did, after it was done, should there be a complaint...and we all know there would be a few if not many given the numbers. ie; Why were we moved up? being the most likely one.
And yes, it is getting boring around here.
July 9, 2009
Stoney
Men's 50
37 posts
I play with St.louis Sting (AAA) and now see that we have been rerated as Major so does this mean when we go to the World tourney we will play as we qulified..AAA or must we play as Major?I can see moving us up next year but not in the middle of the season.
July 9, 2009
hitt2
354 posts
Tait
I'm not saying combing parts of divisions or selective teams. However I am saying it would only benefit the game if the Major+ & majors were combined. It would provide more opportunity to play teams in the same age Grp, which I believe is what Jawood is asking for. I like the suggestion by the Wood in the general discussions thread. He state that the teams that are strong M+ team give runs to the M teams when playing. Teams like Jawood should have more options to play. The AA and AAA are feeder into the M/M+ if they are that much better than the rest in those lower levels. They move up. It would be stupid for me to think that if my team does well in AAA that they wouldn't move us up again. But that's what getting better is about. We started out the season with the ranking provided from last year after the winter world, only two players were added to the team one left to play with a 60 AAA teams, (they were moved to major recently) and the other isn't playing at the present time. When you win tourney you move up. We have been moved after 2, so be it to a man we say we knew it was coming and it was expected and wanted. It part of becoming the best team possible. Taking some knock is also part of the game. I want to play teams that will make our collective team improve. If we can't hack it then we can petition, like Corky’s team to move down, or just remain and play I think my team would select the latter, but who knows.
My thoughts were to share how things are approached in NCSSA and that it might be something other states and local tourney play might want look at and discuss. In NCSSA we are fortunate to be able to play under the rules the game is base on with sensible solution to the HR rules and no PPR. Just one player thoughts.
Hitt2
July 9, 2009
the wood
1076 posts
Hitt2:
I am not a proponent of giving up runs within a division. I was merely stating that this has occurred at different times this year and in years past.
Many of the teams that we face are teams that we also played against in the 40 & 45 levels. There were only two divisions there (in the mid to late 90s) and there were no '5 run equalizers', etc. The primary equalizer was 3 HRs and then an out (ASA) or 3 HR hitters and an out for anyone else (USSSA). Everyone had to run for themselves, we could bat 11 guys, we could slide into all 4 bases and the plays at the plate were usually tag plays.
Somehow things have been changed to a more sedentary game and I recognize that some of the changes were necessary. While I prefer the 40 & 45 type of game, I know that it is what it is.
HRs? This should only be a real factor in the higher division (M/M+ combined). If guys want to hit them they ought to play against the 'big boys'... after 3 HRs in AA they ought to be an out. I'm sure that this will rankle some feathers but how else to you keep guys from playing down?
The $64k question to me is simply this... do you really want to solve the problem or do you just want to message the symptoms?
Allowing teams to play in major + like conditions without having to commit to the M+ division is what we now have... two separate divisions. All of us can name teams in our respective areas that have plenty of power yet they insist on bing M teams.
BW
July 9, 2009
the wood
1076 posts
Correction:
In lieu of 'message' it should have read 'massage' in the $64k question...
mea cupla.
BW
July 9, 2009
Dbax
Men's 60
1264 posts
Stoney, you will be playing in the Worlds as Major. Pretty stupid rule. They should make all the re-ratings after the Worlds. Teams prepare for the season, building their team to win a World tourney. Then halfway through the season they win a tournament and are bumped up to the next level. Give a team a chance to win a World. It's ridiculous.
July 9, 2009
hitt2
354 posts
the Wood
Sorry for the mis-understanding of your position. Let me say the game has been compromised and gotten away from the original design. In reading your thread I understood your suggestion for providing run was a compromise for those that have issues about playing in or against the M/ M+ division.
I hear what you’re saying and agree with you on most of the issues. My main point is if you win you're expected to move up. Then play as well as you can before requesting a drop in level. There will always be those that want to play down.
This weekend we play in a bracket that has a 60 major + team winner in Reno, It will be our third time battling them, 60 AAA that been moved to Majors also a winner in Reno, played them once before. The AAA 55, played once. The AAA50 and an AA50 in the bracket because they’ve been winning in NCSSA and have been bumped up in the ranking. No runs are being given to any team. There’s no grumbling everyone shows up to play. It should be like that everywhere.
Hitt2
July 9, 2009
hitt2
354 posts
the Wood
The 60 AAA team remained AAA.
I was looking at the bracket you played in in Reno and we've played both MTC and the Farm 2 weeks later and battled both of them. Everyone needs to just show up and play.
Hitt2
July 9, 2009
the wood
1076 posts
It sounds like the NOR CAL ss aasn has a lot of good things about it. You guys are fortunate to have that avenue. Plus, you have to enjoy the weather up there in the summer as it isn't conducive to year round play... add all of this up and it's easy to see why you guys rave about it.
Good luck to you...
BW
July 9, 2009
hitt2
354 posts

the wood
You're right Nor Cal has a lot of positives and being able to play from Feb. to early November is fun. Weather wise on the coast mid 70s to 90s and central valley 50s to 105+ depending on playing north or south. If you team comes to the Cal Cup Look me up or we might meet up in Phoenix. I’m with the Blackhawks. Battle on and good luck to you also the rest of the season.
Hitt2
July 9, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4344 posts
NCSSA is not all Peaches and Cream. But much better than it was in the past as far as they're ranking and placing teams in tournaments. But then no assn. will meet everyones expectations.
Some teams only goal is to get out of the "Jewelry Challenged" category. I like that phrase, Don,
They are moving more towards SSUSA's rules this year and no doubt will more so, next year.
Time will tell on some players concerns we have here in regards to the PPR\DBO\HR's rules. We can hope those don't change.
Some teams within the NCSSA, never attend anything that is really considered a Major tournament. (qualifiers, championship, national, et al) But "Major " has different connotations for each of us. A few feel winning a local tournament is major one, yes, a major accomplishment, at least. lol
But whatever, any are, it's all that is available, good or bad.
Let's just play some good ball.

BW, So cal has some great tournaments and parks as well. Climate is milder as well overall.
July 9, 2009
the wood
1076 posts
Yes, we do, Scott... but we just don't have the level of synergism that Nor Cal seems to have. I'm not getting my input from just the guys on the this message board. I have a lot of former teammates, friends, etc. that participate in the Nor Cal assn abd they've been raving about it for years.
BW
July 10, 2009
TGIII
Men's 60
90 posts
Team Ratings: The Top Gun III 55 team was one of the teams re-rated on July 5th from 55 AAA to 55 Majors. Our first reaction to the re-rating was the move was made as a result of our team's successes early in the season. That maybe a contributing factor, but Terry H. was kind enough to mail an explanation for the re-rating. This correspondence is sent to the managers and if the reason for the re-rating is not communicated to the team, then there are all sorts of misconceptions. Our team was moved up based on our teams play against higher rated teams (Major and Major+)and the run differential in those games. Since the run differential was 5 runs or less, it was felt that our team could compete at a higher level, thus the move. Terry also included the caviat that the team could be re-rated after a minimum of three tournaments, which I think is fair. I appreciate the explanation rather than having to guess why our team was moved up. I wanted to share this information with others on this website this to hopefully help alliviate some of the misconceptions. Hope to see you on the ball field.

Kevin Evans
Top Gun III
July 10, 2009
hitt2
354 posts
Tait
The changes in Nor Cal have been for the betterment of the game IMO. This year they voted down the PPR and instituted sliding on the bases vs. the run through. I think this was the way to go. I'd say that about 20-35% of the teams do play Medal and Jewelry tourneys. It might be one major event a year but still they make the effort to travel. Your right for 65-80% the teams Nor Cal events are their major tourneys. It however links player to teams that play on travel teams. I think that with this being true some of the T.D.’s have upgraded their awards in NCSSA this year. This is a positive return for future events. Hopefully this will encourage teams to come play from out of the area. They will be pitted against quality teams at their level of play. Example of another bracket for this weekend
Advance construction
5 spot
Eastbay Oldies
Old A's
MTC55
Old Dawgs
The wood and Jawood or any other teams could you see your team competing in this brackets. The competition get teams that travel ready for the SSUSA events Check out the web site NCSSA (Nor Cal Senior Softball Association) Look under scheduled for the upcoming events and at the Ranking list.
Hitt2
July 10, 2009
Omar Khayyam
989 posts
Look at the rankings for NCSSA
107 teams and the top 54 are with one exception, 50s, 55s, and 60s.
The bottom 53 are 60s, 65s, 70s, and 75s
Note that the lower ranked teams are also active in tournaments:
Top 54 teams entered 4.1 tournaments so far per team (high of 7, low of zero)
Lower 50 (some a team in name only) entered 4.7 tournaments per team (high of 9!)

So there are tournament-eager teams in both younger and older age groups. The debate in NorCal is over applying younger rules to older teams. Most older teams did not want to abandon the healthier run through on all bases (collision factors of slide vs. run through are equal, but rapid stopping on old knees and sliding on old legs are definitely less healthy for older players).

Most players seem to not mind the PPR exemption because it didn’t prevent injuries, but there is a lot of sentiment among older players to returning to older conditions that they were familiar with (no super bats, normal balls, more reliance on strategy and defense) that the younger players (think einstein) dislike so much.

I think you might also find a lot of support for a pitching screen. The reason is that most older players, mostly retired, play two or three times a week in recreational clubs and the screen is widely used there because of older pitchers and mismatched skill levels.

The third issue in ranking by ability, irregardless of age groups, is that you get older teams playing guys 5, 10, 15, even 20 years younger than themselves. This is devastating, particularly on the second or third day of a tournament when stamina becomes a factor and older bodies don’t recover as well. It is also a factor on any day with a great difference between team speed and arm strength (and yes, home run hitting power as well).

Just some observations. I think NCSSA is a superior association, but it has its own internal disagreements on some issues. Perhaps it will eventually split into two divisions by age.
Sign-in to reply or add to a discussion or post your own message and start a new discussion. If you don't have a message board account, please register for a free nickname. It will only take a moment.
Senior Softball-USA
Phone: (916) 326-5303
Fax: (916) 326-5304
2701 K Street, Suite 101A
Sacramento, CA 95816
Send us e-mail
Senior Softball-USA is dedicated to informing and uniting the Senior Softball Players of America and the World. Senior Softball-USA sanctions tournaments and championships, registers players, writes the rulebook, publishes Senior Softball-USA News, hosts International Softball Tours and promotes Senior Softball throughout the world. More than 1.5 million men and women over 40 play Senior Softball in the United States today. »SSUSA History  »Privacy policy

Follow us on Facebook

Partners