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Discussion: Balls again?

Posted Discussion
Aug. 24, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Balls again?
Las Vegas guys.
Is the micro-cell ball you're using this year
at LVSSA coming up
the same ball as the one used last year?
Was last year's ball, which was great,
a 400 compression ball or a 375 ball?
Does anybody know?
Aug. 25, 2009
Lefty
Men's 65
468 posts
We had the Rock ball for the ISA World tourney in TN. and it hit well. It was a 375. As for as I know one was hurt. Had a great time.
Aug. 25, 2009
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
I believe it was the 44/375 ball.

It will depend on if they bought them before they stopped making the Microcells last June I think.
Aug. 25, 2009
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2629 posts
I believe that they only discontinued making the ASA Microcells, not the ISA Microcells.
Maybe Trumpball can clearify this.
Aug. 25, 2009
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
As usual you are right Bruce. I should have stated that it is the ASA ball but if I remember right it is the ASA ball that we used last fall at Vegas.
Aug. 25, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Fred,
Was the ASA version a 400 compression ball
or a 375?
Aug. 25, 2009
The Pro
81 posts
LVSSA will be using the same ball as last year, the 44/375 Rock, soft to the touch but seemingly more "alive" than any other 44/375 ball, heat does not seem to affect it.

We use it for our "scrimmiages" every Saturday and it stays "fresh" all game long.

Also, I hope teams are entering the LVSSA Masters tournament this Sept. and Oct. (it's posted on their web site). Best balls, best bats and the most player friendly rules in Senior softball!
One set of diamonds we will be using is the "new" Lorenzi diamonds ( that are just beautiful, all new parking,new recreation area for the kids and shaded areas to sit and brand new diamonds (no more light poles on the diamond). Our tournament will be the first games played on them.
Aug. 25, 2009
JamesLG
298 posts

We used the Trump 44/375 ball last weekend in the Classic Rock qualifier and the balls were good for a few innings and fell off dramatically later in the game. It was 70-75 degrees all weekend so the heat had nothing to do with it. It is hard to bitch about the balls with the HR rule in effect. When you see hard hitting seniors taking half swings to keep it in the park we might as well throw in a mush ball when the HR's are used up.
Thanks:

James
Aug. 26, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
It's no illusion, James
and many of our senior guys are experiencing
the same phenomenon.
44x375 balls used to be hotter and better
than the ones we are using now.
They have become unacceptably soft when hit often
and when the temperature goes up.
Some folks in the ball industry have been driving the ball down to protect themselves in the market place from the "better" balls we used to hit.
So, if we want to hit at the level of the former
44x375 balls
it seems we need to hit higher core/compression balls.
When the argument goes toward using a better ball
people in the industry start screaming
these balls are unsafe for us,
will cripple ball players,
will set up huge law suits
and try to scare us off what it is we want to do.
They say we use cheater bats
and hit too many home runs,
cause tournaments to run too long
and TD's to spend too much money on balls.

There's more and more of us
who are not buying into this juggernaut
that wants to slow our game down
way below the standards we want, deserve
and need to have a good time.

It reminds me of the loss that happens
when a field in a city goes unused
because no one wants the liability of someone
falling down and threatening to sue.

Threatening to sue is the club some marketeers use
to rangle an industry into compliance
to make sure the products they make
will be purchased.

We need to be vigilant and strong,
believe in ourselves and the game we love to play
reward those who help and support us
and do what we must to ensure
we don't become victims of the "modernization"
of senior softball.




Aug. 27, 2009
thebull
Men's 50
59 posts
If you really want a good ball thats consistent and will last many games then try using a Decker. I have buckets of Trumphs and Deckers and the Deckers are much better. Have hundreds of hits on the Deckers over the past 3 years and they still hit well, and I'm not talking about weak hits, we pound them. Trumph is a decent ball but are inconsistent and don't hold up as long.
Aug. 27, 2009
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
Einstein: They were 44/375 as ASA doesn't have a 400 I believe.

Maybe we used different balls in the older divisions as the ball was really flying in our games
Aug. 27, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Thanks Fred and Bull.
My experience with Decker both from playing
and listening to other players is very much like yours.
They make very good balls and we need to keep them
in the loop as we make decisions about what's best
for us, going forward.
It's not the company or who owns that matters.
It's the quality of the balls we need and deserve
that should be the determining factor.
Aug. 27, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3929 posts
well all i can say is all the balls mention here have had problems at one time or another,and i do mean all of them.the fact that the companies have no control of the quality at the factory the are made at.even the evil balls had prols at one time,so blameing a company about thier balls is just silly since they have no control,except for giving the specs needed per assoc's rules.
Aug. 27, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Robert,
The balls have steadily gotten less lively
in the last couple of years.
This is without a doubt and beyond question.
Someone/something is driving them down.
Asking questions provides some answers.
Following the money provides more answers.
We don't care who's doing what to whom.
We want to play with good balls/bats
and have some fun.


Aug. 28, 2009
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
I have been using the Evils for the last 5 yrs and have had very good results from them especially when they switched to the Microcell X2's. If I remember right they did have a bad batch a couple of years ago.

Now that the Microcell's and the Dudley TA's are not legal in ASA anymore I have to start looking for a new ball for our leagues next year. I have tried the new Evil's and they are good but not as good as the Microcell's which you wouldn't expect them to be.

It seems ASA is cracking down on the balls the same as they have done with the bats.
Aug. 29, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
ASA last I checked
is but one organization of about 6 or so
that sanction senior softball.
We need not worry about their influence
as and if we stay informed
and vigilant about who's saying
and doing what to us or "for" us.
We'll have our way if we're defined
and willing to say "no" when appropriate.
Aug. 29, 2009
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
Your right but the do have an effect on what is made. IMO the ASA Evil 44/375 Microcells where a lot better performer than the Utrip 44/400 Microcells. You can still get the 44/400's but because of the ASA ban you can't get the ASA 44/375 Microcells.

I am glad as a Senior org we will never see the 52/265 that was developed for ASA. That ball is the horrors of all horrors
Aug. 29, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Right on, Fred.
And I propose that if and when we find
people not supporting us and our desire
to use good balls and bats
whether TD's, Manufacturers or Associations
we let our brothers and sisters know
who's with us and who's not and act accordingly.
Let the word go out loud and clear
that we seniors will be respected
and listened to regarding our wants and needs
from this moment on
in and around softball
and we'll take action when appropriate
to insure that we are.
We may be old
but we're not broken and
we won't be pushed around.
Sept. 1, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Bogie and I were talking
yesterday and here's something that makes
a lot of sense.
TD's are worried about losing too many balls
and the cost and time it takes to stop games
and wait for balls to be retrieved.
TD's should give us a dozen balls each and
let teams buy their own after that,
even ahead of time
and they can go look for their own balls
whenever.
Ball Manufacturers would sell more balls.
We'd have all the good balls we want to hit
far and wide
and everyone should be happy.


Sept. 1, 2009
ShaneV
Men's 55
381 posts
Can't say much about the comparison of balls. Started buying Trumps, NSA, 44/525 back in 2006, very hard ball, dented double wall bats and yet didn't fly all that well. Switched to SSUSA 44/375 standard, we see at all SSUSA events we attend, seem consistent to me. Notice a significant improvement when temps drop and using a senior bat. Some fall off when temps exceed 80 degrees. Also seem to hold up well. Just received 6 doz. Florida balls for our SSUSA fall league. Have used the Texas Half-Century, standard SSUSA and now get to try the Florida version, all 44/375 Trump. Our cool fall evenings in the Northwest are great for hitting!

I will allot balls and sell extras next tournament! Lost at least 5 dozen at the Classic Rock at the RAC. I didn't have the necessary help to chase balls and the public is not as honest as I had hoped. Many were brand new balls and I guess great souveniers! Live and learn.

ShaneV
Sept. 2, 2009
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2629 posts
I agree with einstein, let the TD's give each team a certain amount of balls with the ability to purchase more and let the teams be responsible for chasing hrs and foul balls. It works well for SPA.
Sept. 3, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
We live in America where the market place
is prominent.
Most of us have seen a time when we used to make
the best products in the world in the 40's, 50's and
60's changed to planned obsolescence and government deregulation which lead to assaults on and destruction of us and our core values.

Well, the softball industry is no different.
What value would a softball manufacturer bring to his bottom line if he made a ball that would perform well and last?
What value would a bat manufacturer evidence
if he made a bat that was lively and lasted
a very long time?
Less sales?
Probably so.
But,
does it come at the cost of our enjoyment,
experience and pocket books.
You betcha and without a doubt.
So, the irony is that the better a business man,
the smarter and more shrewd a business man
might be
the worse his effect might be on the people
and the culture of his constituency.
We know the manufacturers are of balls and bats are playing this "game" of Americana
on us but we don't have to like or support it
anymore than we have to.

We want good bats and balls at "reasonable" cost,
American made if possible,
deserve 'em and we're gonna get 'em
if we stay vigilant, ask the right people
the right questions and don't lose
our give up our own balls in the process.

Better balls now cost more money,
ball manufacturers want to say.
"I can sell you this other ball cheaper
but your customers may not like it as much."
Those are the regular 44x375 balls now
after they've been driven down so much
by shrewd marketeers they don't last or perform
well in hot weather.
The solution?
Buy more balls so you can replace 'em faster.
Who thinks THIS is a great idea?
How many seniors are benefitting from this
movement and kind of transaction?

All to say and all that I have been saying all along.
We're being had by a market place
and those who know how manipulate it
pushing their way around inside our culture
and our game
and we don't have to take it if we don't want.

Good balls/bats for seniors.
Good balls/bats for seniors.
Good balls/bats for seniors.
And we won't take no for an answer.

Sept. 3, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey guys.
I've made many comments (understatement)
on bats/balls leading up to the LVSSA
later this month.
They're using more expensive and better balls
(what a concept) that may be a good solution for us
but we need to see how these better balls
field, fly, throw,
feel, hit and sound,
all important aspects of
any ball we would endorse across the board
for senior use.

We need to see
if it's as lively as the one we hit last year
as many of the 44x375 across the board have gotten worse.
We'll just have to wait and see.
Sept. 3, 2009
The Pro
81 posts
You'll love the ball, guaranteed and you'll love the "new" Lorenzi diamonds.
Sept. 3, 2009
Airbosn
Men's 65
321 posts
Joe, The balls used at Dalton were great balls. I was fortunate to procure all the leftovers for the Winternational at Pensacola. Additionally, I will be conducting a ball survey and keeping track of balls used. I am leaning towards giving each team a dozen and then they can buy additional if necessary. The ball issue is really a easy fix. Thanks for your passion.
Sept. 3, 2009
Brett
Men's 55
239 posts
In my opinion, the Trump X-Rock balls are the best performing balls (hands down) on the market and have been for the last 3 years since they were first introduced in late 2007.
Sept. 4, 2009
DoubleL10
Men's 65
811 posts
Len, Looking forward to hitting some good balls (again) in Pensacola! We enjoyed hitting the Trumps in Dalton and everything about the SPA experience there - except losing to you guys!
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