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Discussion: how should illegal bats be handled

Posted Discussion
Aug. 31, 2009
hitone357
1 posts
how should illegal bats be handled
Yesterday in the northern championship in Lansing, MI, I watched a cap come off of a bat that a motown player was using. The other team manager looked at the bat and said that it had been altered. The umpire looked at the bat an instructed the player to put the bat away. They asked the umpire to get the director but he refused. After a short time the umpire ordered play to continued. What should have happen when a player was found using a illegal bat?
Aug. 31, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4305 posts
Appears to be a dropped ball there. But here is the rule.
3.4(7) PENALTY FOR USING AN ILLEGAL
OR ALTERED BAT
A. SSUSA agreed to follow the 2007 Summit Altered Bat Recommendation:
Penalty for Using an Altered Bat: If a bat is suspected of being altered to enhance performance, the tournament committee will determine if the bat will continue in play or be held for inspection. If
the player refuses to turn over the bat, the player will be suspended

PLAYING RULES
for 10 years and the manager for one year and the team will forfeit all games. If the player voluntarily releases the bat and it is found to be altered to enhance performance, the player will be suspended
for 5 years and the manager for one year. A second offense may result in the lifetime ban of the player.
Any attempt to use an illegal bat in SSWC or SSUSA play will result in the batter being called out and ejected from the game. Base runners will be instructed to return to the base(s) occupied at the
time the illegal bat was used, providing there are fewer than three
(3) outs. Use of an altered bat will also result in the following:
1. Batter will be called out and ejected from the tournament.
2. The bat will be confiscated for testing through the National SSUSA Office.
B. Procedure for confiscating a suspected altered bat:
1. The Tournament Director will immediately take possession of the bat. Under no circumstances will the bat be allowed out of the Tournament Director’s possession.
2. The Tournament Director will write a receipt for the bat and give it to the person from whom the bat was confiscated.
3. The Tournament Director will attach a piece of tape to the bat with the player’s name, the team name, address, and telephone number.
4. The Tournament Director will send the bat into the SSUSA headquarters with a note explaining how and why the bat was confiscated.
------
I hope closure comes to this events problem.
Aug. 31, 2009
butch17
Men's 55
415 posts
hitone357

This is not the first time an end cap has came off a combat nor will it be the last. Neil hit the ball and cap came off the umpire and coach BOTH looked at the bat and I dont know what their discussion was but the umpire must not haved believed it was altered as he gave the bat and cap to the player and said to put it up.
I have played off and on with this player for the last two or three years and in my opinion would never use an altered piece of equipment.
If every time an end cap came off a bat it is an illegal bat there are hundreds of them out there.
As Taits rules above states the player was told to put the bat away because of the end cap not because it was altered. So let's not try to ruin a players reputation or a teams because an end cap came off a bat.

Butch
Aug. 31, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
i'm with on the combats butch.i have 3 that have had prols with and it seems to be the norm for them.anyways no one in thier right mind would want to shave one,unless your only gonna want to get maybe 50 swings out of it.
Sept. 1, 2009
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2616 posts
I also agree with Butch. I know of 3 or 4 guys that have either returned the bats to have the cap reglued or have had to reseat it after every swing. I wonder why the other team's manager thought the bat was altered?
Sept. 1, 2009
batter4u
Men's 65
74 posts
I have had the end caps come off of both my grey and red combats and it is, or so I though, common knowledge that these bats to lose their endcaps once in a while.... I also question the managers thoughts. or lack of senior bat knowledge
Sept. 1, 2009
ROOSTER10
Men's 60
91 posts
GUYS
HITONE357 never mentioned what type of bat that the cap came off.I also realize that combat had a problem with end caps coming off.If there manager thought by looking at the bat that it was altered then either the UIC or tournament director should of at least come over and investigate.WE know there are a minority of senior players having bats shaved.All the rules on this make no difference if we do not execute it.I am not saying that the bat was altered but I know the person and he would not say anything if he did not think it was.My thoughts!!
Sept. 1, 2009
Al33
Men's 55
183 posts
Rooster10,
You're right. It didn't mention Combat. Although Combats are notorious for the end caps coming off. I've had several already. Shaving a Senior bat is nuts anyway unless you have an unlimited budget to replace them. They break easy enough as it is. Besides, how much farther do you want to hit it. It's only got to go 301'.
Sept. 1, 2009
butch17
Men's 55
415 posts
I was there and it was a MM combat that the end came off of so hitone37 didn't need to say it was a combat because I saw what happened. I agree with Bruce. I'm sure that if experienced umpires thought that the bat was altered they would have done what Rooster10 suggested but obviously neither umpire thought so as we had two umpires in that game.

Butch
Sept. 1, 2009
softball4b
Men's 60
722 posts
I have one of the original MM combats. Received last June and still using it. It developed a small crack about 50 swings ago so now I am using what will be its replacement, but I will pull out the other one at the world tourneys. Biggest problem I see: grown men swinging bats that are too light and using them in batting practice and games. At 275 lbs + I do not swing anything lighter than 30oz, but I will swing 29 if it is a heavy 29. In 3 years I have cracked 1 bat. IMHO
Sept. 1, 2009
Al33
Men's 55
183 posts
softball4b,

I would agree 100% not to swing your good bats in batting practice. You're only asking for trouble. Explain what's wrong with swinging a lighter bat? I had a great conversation with Greg Fuhrman back in the late 70's when everyone was swinging heavy bats. He was using 26/27 oz. bats back then and he was bigger than you. His philosophy was simple physics. "Maximum bat speed at the point of contact produces maximum distance". Worked pretty good for him and has worked for me ever since.
Sept. 1, 2009
Lecak
Men's 55
1005 posts
You big guys can generate some big time swing speeds, a thing to behold. Back to the subject just a what if I wasn't there but if you read the UTRIP and ISA websites (I know it wasn't one of those) but they are pretty specific about scuffed end caps, excessive wear and I believe even bats that are factory but have turned to hot simply through BP and game use. If the end cap popped off and there is evidence of gluing technically a case could be made the bat is altered.
Sept. 1, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
softball4b,u be a gorilla tho,arms like most people's thighs,(:0).yes i can swing a heavy bat,but it doesn't get me the results a lighter one will.i swing a 26 el MM.i could prolly do a 27 bal,maybe but i'm so used to useing a 26 that i can't go there.i also use a 24 oz fastpitch bat for ASA.
Sept. 2, 2009
Duke
Men's 60
695 posts
Hey Guys,

I am only going to comment on the illegal bat issue. Umpires do not always follow this rule, because of the harse penalties that are deservably attached to it. Sometimes as a player or team, you need to take charge here, when the umpire does not, only if you are positive that there was an illegal bat used. One such issue happened in a league, and the umpire caught the illegal bat. He threw the bat out, but did not toss the player out of the game or suspend him. Therefore, the players of the other 5 teams and managers got together to resolve the problem. We all decided to not pitch to him, regardless of the situation, and simply walk him every time at bat. After about 4 weeks, he has not been seen much or at all.

The other ruling is to suspend the manager for a year. Although, it appears that most agree with this rule, I do not. I would never use an illegal bat knowingly or let a player on my team do so, knowingly. If I bought a bat from someone, I would not know if it was altered or not. This is probably why I buy only new bats. Like several of you have attested to, some caps just come off due to manufacturer or long use from wear and tear. I am extremely confident that players on my team all use legal bats, but it only takes one idiot to cause this to not be true and I would get suspended with that person as well. After the Phoenix Worlds, I will never manage a team again because of this rule(manager suspension penalty) with the possibility of not playing for a year. This can happen easily by using a substitute player for a tournament that a player on my team recommends and I do not know him. I do know of teams that use shaved bats and players that make illegal bats, but those players and teams must be pretty desperate to use such a bat with what we have available to us. One day they will get caught and pay the penalty. Just my opinions.

Andy Smith,
Manager/Coach.
Double Nickels
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