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Discussion: fickel seniors

Posted Discussion
Sept. 5, 2009
v55lrv
23 posts
fickel seniors
I would like to understand when we played in the 80s and they took away our good balls and made us play with the gold dots we played with the organizations that gave us good balls and bats. After about 2 years this organization let us play with the balls that the other organizations were playing with because people did not play with them. Know the same thing is happening and you complain. This will happen to all organizations unless we step up and quite playing at this organization tournaments. So if you are going to support this organizations tournaments dont be suprised if what we know is senior ball will become nothing more than bloop ball because we wont have a ball worth hitting or a bat that will be worth hitting. We are letting this happen and all we do is complain and complain and not take action...
Sept. 5, 2009
Jawood
Men's 50
794 posts
We need to get an organized group to attend the end of the year meetings and state that we are not going to put up with this anymore.
Sept. 5, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4359 posts
Jawood,
I doubt a labor union type of org'ed group will ever happen. But the Assn's do have their yearly get together either in Nov or Dec in Nashville this year... I don't have a date for you.
IMO, this is THE group but like all groups it has it share of concerns that do need to be addressed.
for what ever reason they choose to throw one out there to work as planned then and now or wait until some magic number over a period of as i see unspecified time frame with non SPECIFIC event stats within and for those times.
Perhaps you could arrange to go somehow and speak.
Only teams as a sole entity or group of teams bonded in same ideals of goals will work. Go together play as specific ones of do not.
However this could go on so to cut short and sweet as it were, SSUSA has the best one going imho, even with it's faults. & I do feel they have some. But I think they also know which ones we are concerned about. Maybe this years N-ville meet up will address some of that on a positive note. We will have to wait and see.
As for the balls which seems to be one of the most complained about lately, Not sure how many the few that have voiced opinions on the issue have had themselves buy for a tournament, but the ones I have done, my price breaks were at 500 & 1000 balls.Ov had a choice of case lots, case =6 dozen.
Not cheap by any standard. Buy yes we like th e better ballls...THat said does it mean if that is what we order that is what we will get... Looking at them your can't tell, they come after the fact and too late to say send the right ones..or what ever.
Maybe someone can become or appointed the the BALL CZAR.
He fields all complaints and the HR balls oner the fence, and is accountable to the players if non performing or hit well.
could possible have each team bring half doz for each game to be played by your team, those balls have to be same as the others and a specific cor\comp...brand, your choice...??
If the teams playing against each other have different ones of well, play ball.


Sept. 6, 2009
v55lrv
23 posts
I read the replys and really dont think going to the meetings will accoomplish much as they will do what they want anyway. The only solution to the problem is not to play with the organizations that cheat us. There are plenty of good organizations such as ssusa, spa, nsa, isa, just to name a few that still use a good ball. It seems that at least they let you play and also have a good national tournamet. We must realize that most of us dont have the pop we once did and by taking a good ball away from us means that the ball dont get to the hole as quick or get over the outfielders head as quick so like I said before if you want to continue to support the organization that has and is taking everything from us be ready for the downfall of senior ball and all ball as we once knew it.
Sept. 6, 2009
the wood
1079 posts
v55lrv:
Your observation is totally correct, IMO. If it's change you want, the best way to affect it is to avoid the organizations that 'refuse to hear' the voices of the teams. The problem with this for most is that it causes us make sacrifices that we are unwilling to make... i.e. to avoid playing in a given assn's events is, in effect, a means of punishing ourselves. Even though this might be a short term issue, most will just whine about it and continue to support the very organization that is deaf to our concerns.

Taits:
I agree with your point, too. Going to the meeting in Nashville is akin to sitting in a coffee shop in DC hoping to change the Congressional decorum. This strategy will have little, if any, impact. I say this after having served on the Summit Advisory Board.

The primary avenue to increase one's hearing is to dramatically reduce their revenue streams. Gentle discussions, nasty dialogues, message board diatribes, letters/emails to the editor, etc., are all good examples of free speech but they are basically ineffective when it comes to creating REAL CHANGE.
There is an expression that sums this up pretty well... 'put your money where your mouth is'... this isn't just about making bets. As an example, ISSA now allows 1.2 bats.
I haven't been a real fan of USSSA when it comes to senior ball. The reasons why would fill its own thread so I won't go into them here. But they do have one very good idea... they sanction several different levels of balls and have the ability to use the one best suited to the circumstances present (heat, altitude, etc.). Whether they have done this correctly or not is also irrelevant at this time... just the fact they recognize the need for making adjustments is the point.
I have personally spoken with some association directors and it has been their desire to give us what we want, for the most part... others, not so much.
The 'who chases the ball' issue? SPA has provided the best solution to this and it has worked well there, even with their 'real M+ rules' (no sarcasm intended). They provide us with one dozen balls and we buy as many additional ones as we need... we used 2 dozen in GA this year and brought home 18 of them. Our games were never compromised due to lack of available softballs. The fact that this has worked well has been no secret to the TDs as they do speak to each other. Why this concept isn't implemented across the board is beyond me.
SSWS has been using very good balls for the past few years... LVSSA, too. SPA upgraded their ball this year from the Baden to a Dudley Thunder (44/400). I'm told that the Huntsman Games also uses good softballs. So it clearly can be done.
I'm not unhappy with SSUSA's ball other than it doesn't perform in the higher temperatures. This is when they could go to 'plan B' and mix in the MCTs, as an example. That is, if our interests were primary.
BW
Sept. 6, 2009
Jawood
Men's 50
794 posts
I was actually invited to attend the winter meetings by Hennessey in an email a couple of months ago to discuss the issues. I don't know if he really meant it or was just thinking that there would be no way I would take him up on it. Our team has discussed the possibility everyone bucking up and sending a team representive to it.
Sept. 6, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4359 posts
Jawood,
If Terry sent you the invite, it was for real.
I know your in the NW somewhere & not sure where the winter GTG is, but if nearby, I'd take him up on it.
But I figure Vegas or Reno as the location, but you may luck out and be set for Seattle.
The saying BW quoted is akin to the pen is "mightier than the sword". But for purposes here, one would have to reverse it, the sword, being money, is mightier than the pen, or written form.
I'd hate to see matters to this far, it would hurt everyone on both sides, as was stated.
For issues specific to SSUSA, it would be nice to hold a real conference just for that assn. solely.
I believe working with one or through one assn. alone, would be easier & more productive than trying to compare, diminish or lift up one from another assn.
The others overall do their own thing anyway, be it for our liking or not.
$.02
Sept. 7, 2009
v55lrv
23 posts
Jawood and Taits I appreciate your input but I still dont understand why we support the organization that is taking everything away that they possibly can. I know that there are other tournaments that we can go to at the same time these are. I just wonder if we think that if we dont play it will possibly be or last? If so I will not support this organiztion even if it was possibly my last. I will gladly stand up for the seniors as we are paying alot of money for the right to play with good equipment. I hope that seniors everywhere will have the gusto to say no to this organization and then and only then will they take there senior program serious.
Sept. 7, 2009
v55lrv
23 posts
Just a short note this will also inprove the other organizations as they will understand that we are united in the way we feel and what is needed in the senior program.
Sept. 7, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Great discussion, guys.
v55lrv.
that's one of the coolest monikers on the site.
We'd love to know who we're talking to
especially when the rubber starts hitting the road but you're right on.
We have relationships with Terry, Dave,
Fran and Ridge and the Pro and his guys
from LVSSA and those are in force
even when there's disagreements.
However, they better realize
we mean business this time
and we won't put up with messing
with our game, anymore.
It's not our responsibility to travel
3000 miles to have input.
They should be seeking/asking/polling
US.
Good bats/Good/better balls.
HR's as singles, No PPR,
equalizer HR's, 5 or 7 runs per inning
to an open inning.
(optional mercy rule)
These are the fundamental rules
we, the most of us,
need to enjoy our sport
and we won't settle for less.
We'll call out and seek out
so everybody knows, those who actively support us and those who don't.
Sept. 7, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4359 posts
v55lrv,
You could consider it as "not supporting them" but rather being able to play. No matter which assn you want to use as example or target, If you want to play in any specific event no matter where located, your stuck with what ever rules* that assn dictates. *Rules cover the whole gamut; balls, bats, et al.
Your only other option is to not go to that one but look for another. if no other suits you stay home. Trouble is some things are not known until game time like balls. Some others are not know until it's too late to bail out of it without cost to you or to get into another. Still the one other bad item is the number teams that are actually in you age & ranking. Awfully hard for the assn to cancel that division given their expense and yours as well that ends up being a losing situation on both sides overall.
I doubt one team, not going to one or more will kill the beast or solve a specific concern. That would actually would take numbers.
Relate it to large union activities or strikes walkouts. But then those don't always work for all either. Non union members get the same "benefits" as the members end up with when it over.
Teams here (any given assn) are too spread out to do any good as to Confer, hold meetings, bargain.
We all will be back 2 play it is the better game, like the rules cost and all, or not.

Sept. 7, 2009
v55lrv
23 posts
Taits you have good points but why is it not the tournaments job not to provied the information about what balls and bats are being used I know that when we played they have it posted no ultras so how hard is it to put out the informantion as to what they are going to allow? As you said if we dont like it stay at home and if more seniors get involved the better chance to change things. I know that is alot to ask people but what do we want better senior ball or just status quo?
Sept. 7, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4359 posts
That's a double negative, but it some where in the Rules. ( 44\375 yellow) PROBLEM lies in whast they order as opposed to the possibility of what the get or are marked...might not be the fault if maker or assn. Honestly.
No specific brand is mentioned.
Very few places do =not allow the U-2 (I'd bet that was for the Manteca BLD) That's corporate wide for their parks.
As for other gear it's a assn thing, not all of them are on the same page bat wise, and some rules. But that is like driving from one state to another your expected to know the laws for that state. "Ignorance of the law is no excuse"
There you will have to study the rules and all you will be playing under. They have no regulatory need or desire to tell you. Read, listen and learn all you can. Play while doing it.
There was one other person on where from back east and up by the lakes that said something like that. Perhaps you two should start a "softball union" of sorts. If you ASK I'll supply his name\moniker on here otherwise not.
But I figure your here in CA he's back east...Email and the phone are only viable connections.
I think we have, what we have.
Sept. 7, 2009
JohnBob
Men's 60
247 posts
v55lrv,we are between a rock and hard place with SSUSA as the old saying goes. Most of us know Dave,Fran and even Terry pretty well. SSUSA has what most say and I agree the best and largest World Tourney in Phoenix each Oct. Plus they police the rosters better than other Senior organizations and in the past has listened to what we had to say,but this year a couple of rules were put in and we were told to live with them till they meet again in December of 2009. Think about this the PPR rule was put in and at same time home runs over the limit were outs. One rule is suspose to kept batter from hitting middle and one meams that batter will be hitting middle more. All year long there's been post after post where Pitcher caught the ball and had a easy double play but DBO was called. No two Umps call it the same plus they hate the rule as do most Pitcher's.
I belive SPA listens to the players the best, in Tulsa last year the balls were bad players complained and this year good balls were used in Dalton plus Ridge sent a survey out to us about the PPR and home runs over the limit being outs they both were voted down so not puy in. My 2 cents
Sept. 7, 2009
Jawood
Men's 50
794 posts
v55lrv, Maybe we haven't been beaten down as much as some others by the powers that be, but I got to believe they will listen. If not, Nashville is a great place to party. At least they aren't holding it in Salt Lake.

We should hold a meeting of team representitives in Phoenix. We could meet right after the managers meeting.

Are there enough tournaments in the other associations to just say no to senior softball and play enough games to make it worthwhile? If there are, please let us know. Every tournament but one got cancelled this year up here that wasn't a SSUSA event.
Sept. 7, 2009
v55lrv
23 posts
Taits I agree there is always a chance that each batch of balls are different but at least you know what they are suppose to be like. And you are right it was a double neg but I just wanted to try and get my point accross like everyone else. As for a union I am not looking for that just for us as indivuals to stand up and be counted. JohnBob is right ssusa does try and police senior ball and this is why they have so many teams play. I think that there attempt to rate players so there is a set of rules for how many players a team can have before they are rated higher is a plus. Once you are rated you play that class for a year and then if you place in the top 4 in nationals you are still rated that for another year. This may or may not happen but it would be a chance to get the majors and major plus a little more equal and same with all the other classes. I may be wrong but rating players will help senior softball.
Sept. 7, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4359 posts
Jawood,
That would be a good time to do that at least quite a few teams would be there. Major tourneys I's say no but you do have some good ones I've seen advertised in OR and WA. Some others in CA, but ask teams that have gone about those before going. As for Major tourneys, only a few in the western states side and usually utrip, NSA kids type. SSUSA has a couple Q's up your way, other Q's in So Ca, Sac area and Reno I feel are the best. One Q in Menifee is also good. Some regional ones in So Ca are good and the lower cost helps.
Sept. 7, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4359 posts
v555lrv
Too many variables on the ball issue, but one thing is for sure, both teams are using it under the came conditions. Just play and enjoy it as mush as possible, good ball or bad. I feel SSUSA listens, but some of it goes through one ear and out the other. They are in the "business" to make money. The teams are both a product or commodity only.
I know there are quite of business owners or managers on here that run a tight ship just like SSUSA does. They don't all do as the employees ask, but I am sure they hear or listen to what's going on. As for checking rosters I haven't seen how all the assns do it, but have seen many and this is the most complete baring a bat check.
For the "player rating" I really only think it applies to the Major and M+ rostered players. That is one reason I feel an open source player data base should be available to view as a checks and balances measure. IE; Players name,age, team rostered with & rating of that team, Just because you play on say a M+ team does not necessarily mean you are a M+ player...but the chances are excellent for that. I can't really picture a M+ team picking up a AAA player or AA player to fill a hole for a tournament...But can picture a AA team picking up a player from a M+ team...I have done that a more than a few times, but NOT in SSUSA. It goes on.
I like the idea of being able to play up to what ever, but only down one. I think that would allow a player to gain experience or show what he might be able to at that level. I do not think labeling a person is appropriate, only the team. But you can really argue\debate that one all over the place.
Sept. 8, 2009
JamesLG
300 posts

Guys:

Last week I was sitting talking to the guy who sponsored/coached and played on the first senior team I was on 6 years ago and he told me he was probably done after this year at 59 years old. This stunned me and I asked why and he simply said the game is not as fun anymore with HR's as out and so many guys hitting up the middle now. The guy I speak of has always been a power hitter but his legs are not the best so hitting the ball hard has been his game and many go over the fence. I think there is something wrong with this picture and this topic hits it on the nose. I give a lot of credit to Dave and the rest of the SSUSA staff for giving the new rules a good run but they are going to hurt this organization if they continue past this year. The game is about hitting the ball hard or we would not throw it to the batter underhand.
Good balls, good bats and hit it as hard a far as you can.
Thanks:
James
Sept. 8, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4359 posts
JamesLG,
I heard that from someone about 2 months ago. That also shocked me. i have only met this person but losing a player or a team says a lot.
As for hitting the middle, it has always been a part of the game, but now it is more often.
I see another problem in that the "older" one gets, the fewer HR's your allowed to hit. If anything, it should be the reverse.
I guess there is always golf.
Sept. 8, 2009
Lecak
Men's 55
1006 posts
Taits would your take on younger seniors getting less HR's be because the younger seniors are more accomplished and well rounded hitters?
Sept. 8, 2009
JamesLG
300 posts
Taits:

When you see good people leaving the game when they can still play there is a problem. We lose enough good people each year from injuries and other health issues we should not lose people because the game has changed so it is not as fun anymore.

James
Sept. 8, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Right on, James.
If they'd have been paying attention
they/we wouldn't have burned this year.
They say they don't want to be pushed into making the right decision
after making the wrong decision.
That's not so elegant cover, to me.
They screwed up.
Followed the wrong advice from guys
who don't love, know or play our game
and have other interests to protect.
Didn't check with us.
Didn't have what it takes
to change even though it meant a lot
including player safety
not least of which was Bill Ruth
himself.
I believe they'll get it right
this time.
We'll need assurances and guarantees
to make it right.
We're hoping and we'll see.

Sept. 8, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4359 posts
Joe,
I DO NOT consider those guys SENIORS. That being the 40-45 and now, 35's??? No.
I didn't address them.
But, I really do not like limits. Can live with it only because that is how SSUSA and others have designed the game now.
More, (ha, ha) Accomplished and well rounded players, give me a break. Faster, more agile, ok.
But, if you go with thinking like that, yes, limit their hrs also.
I still do not like it though. They are a separate entity so treat them as they do, differently.
Sept. 8, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4359 posts
JamesLG,
YES.
Sept. 9, 2009
dj
32 posts
if you want to make changes you will need to boycot a large tournment,like Reno, pick one and make a point, no teams no $$,I know this will be tough because everyone wants to play in the big ones, make our point or it will ony get worse
dj
Sept. 9, 2009
Jawood
Men's 50
794 posts
dj, I really believe they are going to listen to us this year.
Sept. 9, 2009
Omar Khayyam
994 posts
Interesting discussion, and those concerned should definitely try to be part of a group discussion later in the year with the associations.

Boycotting tournaments is problematic, if only because not all teams have a common opinion on these issues. On my older major team, for example, about 1/3 are opposed to hot bats like the U-2s, and only a couple of guys care at all about the ball quality since it is the same for both teams. A mush ball or powder ball—O.K., nobody likes that, but Baden or Trump or Dudley? Nobody cares. We wouldn't have enough consensus to boycott any tournament! We choose on the basis of professionally run, good fields, good umps, and within 600 miles.
Sept. 10, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
OK. You have lots of good stuff to say.
Maybe someday, you'll let us know who you are.
I don't agree with you.
Easily, 80 % of the guys I play with and against
from 50's to 60's want a good ball/bat combo.
To drive/hit the ball well is
E-S-S-E-N-T-I-A-L
to the joy of playing softball.
Boycotting won't work?
Yes, it will and so to with those who want to sell
and advertise through them.
You're right that nobody cares about the name of the ball as long as it's a good one.

A line has been drawn and let's hope it's not in the sand but on real ground.
We will have good bats and balls
and the rules we most enjoy
or we'll go where they are provided
like LVSSA is doing this year.
What did Elvis say,
"Viva Las Vegas", baby.
Sept. 10, 2009
Jawood
Men's 50
794 posts
Another issue that seems not to be discussed as much as others is how are we going to increase the number of teams to play in these tournaments? Two, three, four teams is not enough!
Sept. 10, 2009
bashbro1
Men's 60
266 posts
Hey Joe. Is it "fickel" or "fickle"? I guess were are fickle even about spelling!

bash is getting in to his BLACK Lincoln L.S. with New chrome wheels and Toyo high performance tires, illegally tinted windows and heading for Ferndale, WA near the Canadian border (e.g. 54-40 or FIGHT)for big showdown with those highly skilled and talented Canadians senior softballers!

I'm even brining them some Ultra II's bats so they have the weaponry we have. U2 are BANNED country wide in Canada as you know.

bash!

fickle:
  /ˈfɪkəl/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [fik-uhl] Show IPA
Use fickle in a Sentence
See web results for fickle
See images of fickle
–adjective
1. likely to change, esp. due to caprice, irresolution, or instability; casually changeable: fickle weather.
2. not constant or loyal in affections: a fickle lover.
Origin:
bef. 1000; ME fikel, OE ficol deceitful, akin to fācen treachery, fician to deceive, gefic deception

Related forms:
fick⋅le⋅ness, noun

Synonyms:
1. unstable, unsteady, variable, capricious, fitful. 2. inconstant. 1, 2. Fickle, inconstant, capricious, vacillating describe persons or things that are not firm or steady in affection, behavior, opinion, or loyalty. Fickle implies an underlying perversity as a cause for the lack of stability: the fickle seasons, disappointing as often as they delight; once lionized, now rejected by a fickle public. Inconstant suggests an innate disposition to change: an inconstant lover, flitting from affair to affair. Capricious implies unpredictable changeability arising from sudden whim: a capricious administration constantly and inexplicably changing its signals; a capricious and astounding reversal of position. Vacillating means changeable due to lack of resolution or firmness: an indecisive, vacillating leader, apparently incapable of a sustained course of action.
Sept. 10, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4359 posts
Might add: Men (man), women (woman), & rules to that.

All four of your tires are flat on the bottom....


When was the u-2 banned there. I have sent 3-4 up that way some years back.
Sept. 10, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Bash, you monster,
you're back and sorely missed,
you wascally wabbit.
Bog's video is only days away
from Bomb Squad immortality.
We'll be hitting a testing out
the microcell ball in Lost Wages.
See you in Phoenix.
Sept. 11, 2009
Al33
Men's 55
183 posts
Right on einstein!

Is anybody out there besides me, getting tired of playing tournaments with 3 or 4 teams. Even with a down economy teams would be more willing to spend their money if we were playing by the old rules and using good balls and good bats. Hopefully the organizations will come to their senses and make the needed changes for us, the players. They in turn will benefit in the long run.
Sept. 11, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4359 posts
Do you honestly believe any assn. goes out to buy junk, be it balls or bats allowed? I don't.
I do believer they order the best they can within the cor comp limits they have posted, 44\375, and just about all bats out there are in the 1.20 BPF guide line, so why complain about them, less than a dozen are not allowed. Other assn's take up a page or more, full on them.
What balls are ordered are not necessarily what one receives(for whatever reason). I know that from my experiences. Too many factors go into the balls going soft, but usually because of what they are made of and temp played in.
I nominate einstein to become the official ball czar to police and report which ones are not within the specs or last in the hot weather or cold when the bats might break. Then arrange for the next year to find a better one at close to the same cost.
I also nominate Dirty as the bat czar to decide exactly which of these 1.20 BPF bats are "special" and therefore illegal. I just hope he doesn't use one.
Sorry Joe & Gary, but I think the rules are a more serious concern than those two issues.
Chances are good teams will be moving on, as it were next year because of them. I honestly would hate to see it for any of them.
The only real thing you\we players or as teams control, is whether or not you attend.
jmo

Sept. 11, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
I've known you for a while Scott.
Respect you and look forward to seeing you
at our events.
I couldn't disagree with you more.
The bats and balls are the key.
We need to have fun and not just show up.
See you in Turlock this weekend, perhaps?
Sept. 11, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4359 posts
Joe,
We already have the bats. The balls are not always in the buyers control, only the order for them, not what they necessarily get.
My example:
I ordered 47\525's and got them as well as 47\375, some odd assn stamps and no stamped balls within the mix. Number of dozen ordered was correct, just not in totality for all of it.
Too late to reorder or send back and wait for correct ones...
Having fun is a goal, just like winning.
Not playing there. Will see you someplace on down the road. Stay healthy.
Sept. 13, 2009
v55lrv
23 posts
Wow what a discussion. I think that all that any senior want is a level playing feild but they dont want some one to be able to play 250 feet because the ball is so soft it wont go father. But I also know that there are alot of players it would not matter if they hit a pair of sock it would go out. But for a base hitter the ball needs a little more hop to get in the gaps. I would like for the organizations to consider opening up the upper divisions by extending the time and not putting a limit on homeruns. I really believe they would pay the umpires more for the extra time as the cost for most tournaments is already pretty high. I would give them all the same balls and have balls at the park so they could purchase additional if they wanted them, and let them be responsible for retreiving there homers. I would also just let major plus get anyone they wanted and if the sponser has the money let them decide who they want. As far a major I would limit them to 1 or 2 major plus as long as they have not played any in the current year and they would be locked into playing major for that year unless the team disbands. This would stop players from getting picked up to play in other tournaments for other teams and would keep teams more equal in the major class. A major plus player would never be able to play AAA unless he had not played major plus or major for 2 years this would create a barrier between the classes. I still believe that if you win or place in the top 4 in a national that has at least 6 teams you should move up for a year this would give other teams a chance and inprove competion in classes. I know that if you win a national that the winner goes up in to the next class for a year but alot of teams disband and keep what is ever allowed so they can stay down so this is not right and if you had a rating system these players would be rated into the next class the following year so if you have limits on the class of players that a team can have this would help police the classes. I think that the major plus should be a class by its self just like in the 80s when back porch belcore ken sanders and alot more teams that could be mentioned played and had there own set of rules when they came and played this would be good for softball and maybe get younger guys involved.
Sept. 13, 2009
v55lrv
23 posts
I was just talking to a guy and he said that he thought you could keep 5 off the winning team and pickup the rest of a team, but what good is that if you pick up the guys off another team that finished in the top 4 of other tournament so you are back to the same problem you had before not trying to solve the problem of getting teams in the right class. They just keep changing every year in order to stay down. That is part of the reason you have alot of the same winners in nationals each year and teams are getting tired of spending money and not having a chance to win a national championship that we all love to win. I would hope that in the future there will be some kind of way to police this procedure of rating teams.
Sept. 13, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4359 posts
v55lvr
Sounds like what I addressed to some M+ players (only) about a week ago. But I disagree on some of your points as some of us might never agree on everything we each prefer, but do on a few.
I'll post it with my basic replies to them, which are really close to what all thought, but not all on everything.
As for the top 4 teams ... Not good. Some other factors are a sticking point, possible age & ratings differences and the runs spotted.
Tourneys with less than 4 AT YOUR SAME AGE & LEVEL SHOULD NOT count as a Major tournament.
But all tis gives us something to yak about.
Separate threat will be posted addressed to M+ & Majors but I didn't send Many Majors a note.
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