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| Posted | Discussion |
| Sept. 7, 2009 DA13 5 posts | Grayhawk Park Softball Complex Anyone seen it? If so what are the dimensions and what is it like? |
| Sept. 7, 2009 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | I had an 'unofficial' tour of the facility on July 9th (unofficial in that I hopped the construction fence) and walked the construction site ... It was about 90%+ complete at that time, with sod planted and irrigation systems in, but bases not yet installed ... It's a four-field facility in a quad around a central administration/snack bar/restroom building and appears to be a state of the art facility ... I paced off the fence to (guestimated) home plate location and it looks like 320-325' all around ... It's located directly south of the Boy's and Girl's Club of Scottsdale on E. Thompson Peak Pkwy. @ N. 78th Place (SE corner of N. Hayden Rd. & Thompson Peak) in Scottsdale ... It's also about 3.2 miles from the nearest Host Hotel (XONA Resort Suites) ... Looks like a gorgeous new facility consistent with Papago and/or Rose Mofford ... Hope this helps! |
| Sept. 7, 2009 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | Dave, there is a warrant out for an "unknown" suspect trespassing on the property leaving behind footprints. But know that we know who that was ....lol Better description that two sites I checked for it...One did not list SB fields in a 13 acre park the other has 2 lighted fields in a 15 arce park...Did not go further. |
| Sept. 7, 2009 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | Make that the SouthWEST corner of the intersection ... taits, the other facility you refer to is about a mile away and is comprised of two fields, one softball without fences and the other a shared (apparently) Little League/Girls' Fast Pitch field as part of a small park adjacent to a school ... This Grayhawk Park is free standing on adequate acreage, although 340' or further would have been better since they had the land! ... DAVE |
| Sept. 9, 2009 db14 104 posts | Just a question to Dave. I understand the 40's and probably the 50's playing with 325' fences. Does this mean that the 55's will be subjected to this as well? |
| Sept. 9, 2009 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | db14 ... The short answer to your question is "Yes" ... However, that doesn't adequately answer the question ... The new Grayhawk Park Softball Complex is a softball only facility ... The design criteria appropriately recognized and addressed the advancements in bat/ball technology over recent years and the complex was planned accordingly (The same was true about 4 years ago with respect to the N. Collier Regional Park Softball Complex in Naples, FL, where a portion of the SSUSA Winter Nationals are held, and where the fence distances are in the 320-325' range) ... As more of these type of facilities (and multi-use facilities such as the new parks in Mesquite, NV, and Woodland, CA) become available, I will make it a scheduling priority to place the Men's 40-Masters, 50's, 55's and 60's Major and Major Plus teams into the longer fence distance venues ... The previously identified Scottsdale Vista del Camino site used last year is also a 325' fencing venue, but has only 3 fields ... Grayhawk Park gives us the same field dimensions in a 4-field setup, which is better for meeting the anticipated team numbers ... Hope this helps ... DAVE |
| Sept. 9, 2009 the wood Men's 65 1123 posts | Dave, I am glad that SSUSA is finally making this type of announcement up front. As you may know, teams are built primarily for 300' fields. It is an imposition to pay $450 for a 3 day event only to learn, at the 11th hour, that we're playing on baseball fields... calling them something other than this does not change the dimensions nor does it remove the sting. But I am glad that you'll be forthright about this in the future. Has this been the case earlier, we (GSF) would not have made the trip to Mesquite or to Woodland, which would have saved some bitter feelings. Still, it begs the question as to why are only the M & M+ teams being penalized? I did watch some ladies games being played on the larger fields in Mesquite so why are the AA and AAA teams exempted? My guess is that the answer to this is related to the 'who chases the ball' dilemma. SPA has shown, over and over, that this can easily be solved by giving each team on e dozen balls and the option to buy more. It then becomes our choice whether we chase them or not and doesn't slow down the games (time is money). Also, it gives us control over the condition of the ball... i.e. we won't have to use 2003 balls... BW |
| Sept. 9, 2009 Swampy 24 posts | I do not see a problem with the distance of the fences being 325' for the teams under the age of 55 and in the Major+ or Major divisions. It would make the home run limits acceptable and it may help with the pop-up homeruns that fall over the 300' fences. I would like to comment on the teams having to chase their home run balls. There have been teams that only have one or two extra players and to subject them to running down the home runs or having the wives go get them seem ridiculous considering the excessive entry fees. I know the some of the fields in Florida had a swamp area outside the fence and a person may need a 'Boo Snake' stick with them in Phoenix. Our team paid a young kid to go chase the balls a couple of games, but his mom ended up helping. Having to buy more balls should not be the answer to chasing the home run balls. |
| Sept. 9, 2009 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | M,M+ teams should not have a prol on 325' fields.55 age should be the upper limit tho,maybe 60 M+.wood putting a AA or AAA on 325' fields is punishing them and setting it up for sandbagging in those div's,giving a bigger field to use for a power hitter dropping down. chasing hr should not be a prol,do it when your team has gone to the field,and use you extra player's to do so.very rarely did my team go get balls while hitting,did it after we were done.you have a 1/2 dz to start(that's what spa gives team's in AAA and lower)and can buy 6 more if you feel like your gonna need more.now for the swamp's and things,can't help ya there. |
| Sept. 9, 2009 the wood Men's 65 1123 posts | Guys, it isn't about HRs as much as it's about 60 year old men (in our case) having to cover the additional real estate... I'm not sure how many games your teams have played on expanded fields this year but I know exactly how many we have played... in the Spring World (Mesquite,NV) and the Cal Cup(Woodland, CA) events we played 10 games total, 9 of which were on the bigger fields. Now that they will be telling us beforehand, it becomes our decision as to whether we're interested in paying $450 for a 2-3 team 'pig rascle' over 3 days. As of now, SSUSA has the 60 M+ playing at Papago. Playing there is one decision and playing @ Grayhawk is quite a different one. Bob, if I understand you correctly, putting the AA or AAA teams on bigger fields isn't in the best interest of all of us due to the possibility that one (or more) of their power hitters may be sandbagging. My experience with 'power hitting sandbaggers' is that they don't really want to play on bigger fields... why should we accomodate them at a disservice to everyone else? Why not spread the wealth around? If they use bigger fields, let ALL OF THE TEAMS PLAY ON THEM... don't we all pay the same entry fee? In my view, playing 9 of 10 on them is out of line. BW |
| Sept. 9, 2009 Brett Men's 55 239 posts | I do not agree with scheduling softball tournaments on fields with dimensions in excess of 300 feet. Teams have a right to know the dimensions of the fields they will be playing on before entering a tournament. There is little doubt in my mind that knowing the field dimensions ahead of time (if they exceed 300 feet) will deter some teams from entering a given tournament. |
| Sept. 9, 2009 JohnBob Men's 65 256 posts | BW,last year at World Championships SSUSA did give each team a dozen ball and the option to buy more,at least this was done in 55 major hopefully the same will be done this year. Hey that $450 you referred was that for World Championships? Info I have fee is $660, they must be charging us Eastern teams more lol. Hope to see you at Papago in October. |
| Sept. 9, 2009 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | Brett, I think you can look at it many ways, 1. the plus teams usually hit further play better... they should play on the larger fields 2. the younger guys are usually more agile and in shape, they should play on the larger fields... 3. Some fields are SHORT, I'm sure only a few would complain. 4. Spread it out, alternate fields at times like Reno & Carson are. 5. You have a phone, call the parks they should have field dimensions and other info if that be a concern. I've played on 265 fields and ultras were allowed, that's overkill. Perhaps they could arrange for Sunnyvale's Twin Creeks as a place. I believe they are 325 or some were, and they have 10 fields. |
| Sept. 9, 2009 the wood Men's 65 1123 posts | JohnBob: yes, last year in AZ they did provide each 60 M+ team with 12 balls plus the option to buy more... I felt that this worked well... as it did in SPA in July. The $450 wasn't for the Phoenix event... it was for the other two 'ring tourneys' that I mentioned earlier... the 3 day deals w/ 1-2 teams other than our team... sorry that I didn't make that more clear. BW |
| Sept. 9, 2009 Dbax Men's 65 2100 posts | $660 for a softball tournament??? Utterly ridiculous! And the local teams don't get the hotel kickback discounts. |
| Sept. 9, 2009 DCPete 409 posts | The 60 Major-Plus teams played on 325' fences in Naples last year and it seemed to change the game for the worse. With the OFs having to play at 300' to chase down long fly balls, routine ground ball singles became doubles or triples. Wouldn't it make for a better game if the fences were left at 300' but were built 20' to 30' high to help keep a lot of the long balls in the park? |
| Sept. 9, 2009 Omar Khayyam 1357 posts | DCPete has the right idea, but why 300 feet? I play on 60AAA, 65 and 70 teams. It is more logical and in line with abilities for these older gentlemen to play on 275 foot fields. If you raise the fences to 20 - 30 feet, then the fields become universal for all ages (maybe the 50s would run into each other in the outfield, but you get the idea). |
| Sept. 10, 2009 butch17 Men's 55 412 posts | Hell I say lets go back to the gray ultras, 525 ball, unlimited homeruns and play in the little league complexes with 60' bases and 225' fences. Sounds like fun! |
| Sept. 10, 2009 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | wood,not sure what you mean by to the power hitters,not being helped by the bigger field.i personally would like the bigger field to be able to use as a power hitter,more room to swing away.maybe i'm not reading you right.otherwise i understand what ya mean,just was thinking that a lot of the 60 M+ guys still can go 300' fairly easy.as far as covering more ground,well i hadn't thought of that really,sorry.yes i can see all teams rotating on all fields,that does make it more fair to all. dbax,and the locals don't have upwards of $1000 travel expenses for each player(tickets or driving,housing,food,etc)to deal with. butch you still crazy LOL. |
| Sept. 10, 2009 the wood Men's 65 1123 posts | Bob, perhaps I misunderstood you... I thought that you were saying that putting AA or AAA teams on bigger fields was punishing them, in particular it would be punishing the AA and AAA power hitters. My question to you was 'why should we cater to the power hitters of the AA and AAA at the expenses of everyone else'... From our experience, the true power hitters do not like it when the fences are in the 340' range, especially if the ball is compromised in any way... at 315-325' they can still 'do their thing' while guys with WTP cannot... wtp = warning track power... so they can live with the medium depths. But my point about the bigger fields is the physical toll it takes on 60 year old men... there is a lot more Real Estate to cover. When we played in Woodland 3 weeks ago there were zero HRs hit in our games. I'm told that there was one hit in a different game and that there were some hit on Sunday, when they used 300' fences (or so)... How would you feel about that? Let's say that you went there from TX with the expectation of 300' fences... you paid your airfare, hotel room (3 nights), rental car, walking around money, etc. And you already knew that you only had 2 other teams to play for 2-3 days... oh, btw, as an outfielder you have to cover an extra 40' in RCF in 90-95 degree heat. Do you reckon that you'd be quick to sign on again, Bob?... not trying to pick on you but just trying to give you as much of the picture as possible. BW |
| Sept. 10, 2009 Dbax Men's 65 2100 posts | "dbax,and the locals don't have upwards of $1000 travel expenses for each player(tickets or driving,housing,food,etc)to deal with." So what does that have to do with charging $660 for a tourney?? You should play in three for that price! |
| Sept. 10, 2009 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | wood as i said i understand what your saying,see above post of mine.your punishing lesser of ability type teams(AA,AAA)in the field,not the power hitters on thier teams.they will be able to swing away without the fear of hitting balls over the fence for out,most of the time.yes there will be alot more area to cover i agree,but think that the M+ teams have more ability to cover that(since they usaully draw the better players,both offensively and defensively).that is the only point i was trying to make,yes all the teams should be rotated thru all field regardless of size to be fair,that i do agree with. also i live and play here in texas all the time and wouldn't want to do that.LOL dbax couldn't agree more with ya,we shouldn't be paying that kinda a price for tourney's especially with the payout that is given to the winners and such.remember that we traveling in team's have to pay the same price unless we book the over priced host hotels that ssusa tells us to use to get that lower entry fee.personally i can get a place to stay cheaper if i do a little internet search. we played in tourney's this yr that were just little tourney's and have paid between $300-450 for them.all the kids tourney's i play in we pay $200 max,and some of those give out bats as prizes. |
| Sept. 11, 2009 QC Softball Men's 55 20 posts | Our team played on these longer fences (Gallatin, TN) and it create a lot more doubles, triples and even inside the park home runs. There were a lot less home runs. If you play like the fences are 300 feet it is easy to get burned and the batter gets a triple. IF you play back then what used to be a single is now a double (our arms aren't what they used to be. 325 foot fences or more is asking a lot of 50,55 & 60 year old men and women to play on. The longer fences did not lower the scores. We just played less innings because of the time limits. Just my opinion! |
| Oct. 5, 2009 softball4b Men's 70 1248 posts | Just explain to me how come the 50 Major+ and the 50 Major are playing on 300' fences and the 55's are playing on 325' fences |
| Oct. 5, 2009 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | Mike, That seems back ass-words but so does much more... Perhaps they figure you hit too many over so they will just make an adjustment for that or need the exercise. lol So much this year has been very odd & not in player(s) best interest. imo. Just hope the weather is below the 90's so the balls hold up. Low 80's should help a lot. Have fun regardless. |
| Oct. 8, 2009 doker Men's 60 185 posts | HEY GUYS WHAT IS ALL THE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE FIELD SIZE ABOUT???....THE ORGANIZERS OF THE BIG TOURNEYS REALLY TRY TO PLEASE AS MANY OF US AS THEY CAN!!! I KNOW DAVE AND FRAN AS MOST OF YOU DO TO AND THEY REALLY AREN'T TRYING TO SCREW WITH ANY OF US...JUST TRYING TO RUN AS GOOD OF A TOURNAMENT AS THEY CAN...LOGISTICS OF RUNNING A TOURNAMENT OF THIS SIZE IS ASTRONOMICAL AND I THINK THEY DO A PRETTY GOOD JOB...AFTER ALL YOU CAN'T PLEASE EVERYONE...AS FOR THE PRICE OF THE TOURNEY I TOO BELIEVE IT IS TOO HIGH BUT THEY ARE TRYING TO MAKE MONEY...AND SINCE ABOUT 300-400 TEAMS SHOW UP, IT MUST NOT BE ALL THAT BAD!!!..I PLAYED WITH A 55TEAM IN SALT LAKE THIS SUMMER AND PLAYED ON 275FT FENCES...TALK ABOUT BEING IN THE WRONG PLACE!!!! ALL OF OUR LINE DRIVES WENT RIGHT TO THE OUTFIELDER AND OUR FLY BALLS WENT OVER THE FENCE!!!! SO I GUESS THAT'S JUST THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT YOU GUYS ARE TALKING ABOUT.....DIFFERENT VENUES HAVE DIFFERENT REC DEPARTMENTS THAT HAVE THEIR OWN AGENDAS AND MAKE THEIR FIELDS ACCORDING TO THEIR OWN CIRCUMSTANCES BE IT LONG FENCES OR SHORT ONES AND THE TOURNEY ORGANIZERS DON'T REALLY HAVE THAT MUCH CONTROL ON FIELD SIZE. THEY GET THE FIELDS THEY CAN AT THE TIME THE TOURNEY IS ANNOUNCED AND HAVE TO ADJUST OR MOVE SOME AT A LATER DATE CLOSER TO THE ACTUAL TOURNEY DATE. JUST MY TWO CENTS ON THE MATTER ...SEE YA'S IN PHX...HITEM LONG AND HITEM HARD...DOKER 60/AUSTIN |
| Oct. 8, 2009 softball4b Men's 70 1248 posts | First all typing in caps is irritating. 2nd My only comment was why was the 50 year old Major+ players on the 300' fences and why the 55's & 60's on the 325. My feeling is because Grayhawk is in the boonies and the 50 major+ is being highlighted. Either way the longer fences are a greater hardship on the older age group. Personally, I don't give a crap, I can hit it out of 325', but I catch and don't run my butt off like my outfielders do. |
| Oct. 8, 2009 SSUSA Staff 3483 posts | Ages and Divisions are rotated through the various facilities in Phoenix annually, except for the 75's and 80's (They remain at Rose Mofford because it's the closest site to the Host Hotel) ... It was simply the 50-Major's "turn to be at Chavez", like it was the 50-AAA's "turn to be at Rose Mofford", the 60-Major+ and 60-Major's "turn to be at Papago" and the 55-Major+ and 55-Major's "turn to be someplace else they hadn't been recently" ... Someplace else this year happened to be Grayhawk Park ... All facilities in the World Championships are worthy of hosting their portion of the event, and the rotation is done simply for a sense of fairness and newness from year to year. |
| Oct. 8, 2009 pushin60 Men's 60 61 posts | Doker, I agree with softball4b. Moreover, I think SSUSA Staff would agree too if they thought about it. Hypothetically, you could have 59-year-old guys covering the larger outfields instead of 49-50 year old guys. Common sense just tells you that 50’s should be on the larger fields regardless of “whose turn it is”. |
| Oct. 8, 2009 pete13ia Men's 50 16 posts | SSUSA STAFF, Understand the rotating through the various facilities, but for lack of a better way to pu it. Could you put a little more thought into the rotation in the future. Last year we played AAA at Chavez(terrible complex). Did well and got moved to Major (no complaints there). had a great time in PHX last year so we voted to go again this year only to find out we have to play at that crap hole again this year. I am guessing we are not the only team that this is happening to. Several of the other AAA teams that were in PHX last year got moved to Major. I know it's too late for this year but try to vary the rotation so someone playing at one level one year and gets moved up doesn't have to play at the same place the next year. Something like 50AAA moves to where 55Major was the year before type of thing. This doesn't change our thinking on playing in this tournament because it is a class tourney would just not like to play the same place 2 years in a row. (especially there). |
| Oct. 8, 2009 DaveDowell Men's 70 4312 posts | Pete13ia ... Excellent suggestion! ... Thanks ... Although I tend to disagree with your characterization of the Caesar Chavez facility, I'll find out first hand as the Field Director there for the Mon-Thur Session #2 this year ... No field assignment system will be perfect, for example the case of a 50's team that may move to 55's, but your idea solves the 'ratings side' of the issue ... As mentioned, it's our intention to have the teams moving around the greater Phoenix area rather than getting repetitive in the same facilities (your situation notwithstanding!) ... That's not always an easy task with the volume of entries and the game load that places on all sites ... We have 321 teams this year, which exceeds last year's 318 and is just shy of the all-time high of 326 in 2007 ... Again, thank you for a well thought out idea ... DAVE |
