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Discussion: new ball talk

Posted Discussion
Sept. 26, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
new ball talk
http://www.softballfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=708627

well looks like usssa is going to the 52-275 ball.looks like the kids are for it also.
Sept. 26, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4359 posts
Wonder why he hasn't replied back.
Nice pic of ya too, Bob.
Sept. 26, 2009
Wes
Men's 65
311 posts
Sofball news talk like Terry was not
going to use the new ball
Sept. 27, 2009
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
They are Horrible especially for the older divisions. The Classic M would be a lot better ball if thought was ever given to reduce the ball.

I know on softballfans there is a lot of positive talk on these balls which I can't understand from the results when I tested them when they first came out.

Either I got a bad batch or they have improved the ball because I can't see anyone liking those balls.
Sept. 27, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
fred the classic M ball has been a complete failure in hot temps(according to the kids on SBF)i haven't hit it,but have hit the 52-275.the ones who hit both have like the 52-275 better,says it doesn't change according to weather either,like the classic M can.i can sya that they would not be good for the older div's(70 and over)or lower div's in the 60's.i have hit this ball and didn't think it was that bad.i would rather hit a good 44-375,but if they do change i'll have no prol with it.
Sept. 27, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
That 52 x 275 ball is a piece of crap.
It doesn't sound, feel, bounce or hit
like a regular ball and goes no where
when hit dead center.
I just got through listening to a number of hitters on Bogie's new video, not least of which was Don Clatterbaugh say that they hit and aim for the middle of the ball, dead center.
5 teams in Oakdale California
this year tried that sock and hated it
telling Terry they'd pull out of all SSUSA events if he ever tried to use that ball again.
We been told we need a safer ball.
It's BS.
We were told there's too many home runs.
It's BS.
We were told the majority of players
want and are willing to play with a crappy ball.
All BS.
But not to the guys trying to sell us their new inventions or
weak TD's who can't'/
won't stand up for us and what we want,
need and deserve.
We're being pushed around and coerced
by self centered marketeer's
and/or weak TD's
without good cause or reason
and we need to say no.
Why not use 47 core balls or 500 compression balls?
Why do we have to settle for less
or pay more money to the marketeers
who are trying to push us around
like cattle?
We don't.
Sept. 27, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4359 posts
What bothers me is:
Earlier this year it was said the 52\525 would not he used even though tried or tested. And not liked.
Then the link provided by Mad Dog for SB fans site where it will be used in U-trip in the future, posted by trumpball, (A Spokesman for the maker, Anaconda sports), but no reply posted back to question about use for here, SSUSA fro Mad Dog). This make me wonder.
Then the news paper article on it referring to it as a Micro cell 44\375 ball that was used in the trials... I do not believe they were,** I tried to get some and they were in use and by that time. i could have later, but the results were in as unfavorable, so I let the dead "horse" err ball, die back then.
Lastly; Knowing the makers can put what ever marking a buyer wants (orders) on a ball I'd question anything other that the assn name now as to what the ball cor\comp really was.
** I had balls made for what I wanted: stitch color, cor\comp, assn name, and if anything else wanted left off, as well.
Like I've said, You probably will not know, until the day arrives. Miss labeled on purpose or not.
While perhaps not all makers would do this, what would you do to make a large sale?
I prefer good balls as well. Say 44\400 or 47\525. If they go soft in the heat, so be it. Leather covers will go softer faster than synthetic. and leather absorbs moisture where synthetic will not very much comparatively.
So, Good Balls Please.
Thank you.
Sept. 27, 2009
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
mad dog: I would have to disagree with those estimed members of the SBF board (which I am a member) on the Classic M's

I got a doz of the Trump EZ series and we used them in 6 games in high 80's heat and found them to stand up very well for our doubleheaders. In fact the only difference I found between the Trump 44/375 that we now use was the M's seemed to die at the end which is what you would expect.

We also tried the Evil Classic M's and they also performed very well with a lot more distance the the Trump EZ series M's (which is there less exp ball). We are going with the Trump AK series M's in our rec division next year.

The other thing I checked was how did they effect the weaker hitters 70+ and they didn't seem to effect them very much where the 52/275's would greatly effect those type of hitters.

Like I said how anyone can pick the 52/275 over a good Classic M is beyond me.
Sept. 27, 2009
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
I forgot the only reason we aren't going with the Evil M's in our Rec Div is the cost of the Evils over the Trumps. We may go with the Evil's M's in our "B" division and stay with the Evil 44/375 in our "A" div.
Sept. 27, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
fred when i say heat i mean it to be well into the 90's.the M that i think is bad is the one made by worth,but hey they are making crap for balls now a days anyway.trumps=evils=guru's,all made by the same company.
also the notice by kevin is that the 52-275 will be thier(usssa) cold weather ball.i have heard(from bobby bragging)that his M ball is good,like i said, i haven't hit any M ball.i have hit the 44-300 last fall and was able to hit some out with u-trip and senior bats.what ever happen to that ball.

joe get off the soapbox.also any ball hit dead center is going to knuckle and be hard to hit out(and you should be hitting them out,unless your a true hr hitter),why should it be diff with the 52-275.all you need is 1/8" below center to get your backspin to have this ball to travel.
Sept. 28, 2009
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
I agree all the Worths with that Pro-Trac cover are bad. They are so bad that they are the only ball that don't work well with my Wheeler Dealer. Even their distance ones.

The Leather cover ones are a different story. They well outperform the Pro-Trac covers but they cost a lot more also.

With the Worth balls it comes down to, do you want price or performance.
Sept. 28, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
With all respect, Dog,
hitting the middle of the ball
is not only intuitive
it's how were taught since little league.
It's the best way to get on base
as Don Clatterbaugh pointed out
on Bogie's new monster video.
Get a copy, Dog and you'll see.
As for the balls and the industry
I am and have been "DEAD ON" about what has and is taking place and why
and it may be all right for your stomach
to be coerced and pushed around
by just a couple of smart, self centered people but
I never liked and I still don't
especially when it doesn't have to be.
Why can't we hit/use better balls?
It's all about money, cornering the market, profits and who's driving
the wagon, Dog.
Didn't your daddy ever teach you anything.
Money, man.
Follow the money
and you find out who's zoomin' who.
I'm done with it across the board
in any/all walks of life.
The greed, selfishness, apathy
and enabling are gonna kill us all
and some of us just don't like it
enough to keep quiet and in line.

Sept. 28, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
joe i really don't think you can be anymore disrespecful to me.i have been to school,and yes my father did teach me something,that was don't listen to people on soapboxes,they have thier own agenda.
as for hitting a ball i think i do pretty good,i don't need to be told to buy a video to do it.what's your % on this video,seems like your hawking this pretty good.sounds like what your saying about people trying to sell balls.
don't care what your buddy says,hitting a ball dead center results in a knuckle ball,unless you have a slightly downward swing to cut the ball(oh my there is that word again,cutting).we were also taught to hit the ball back where it came from(middle) in LL,do you still condone that,hope not.

what i would like to see from you is where any of these new balls are affecting senior ball,so far i've seen not one senior assoc even think about using them(they all are using 44-375),so maybe you have an agenda toward someone personlly.with senior bats we don't need to use anything hotter than that.there way to many oops swings that go out of the park,no reason to mishit a ball for a hr,unless your not real confident with your swing.softball is not a hr derby game,there should be some defense involved.

i still play(pitch most of the time) kids ball and see all the crap that is happening with shaved and painted bats,so i understand where the assoc's are coming from as far as safety is concerned,only assoc's not to follow suit are the senior one's.hell the major usssa tourney in disney this past weekend had a player suspended for a bad bat(they are the best baller's in the land),so don't tell no one else does,and that includes the senior population.
in conclusion,the mfg's are not the ones pushing the new ball(they are making it b/c they were told to),its the assoc's requiring for a safer ball,that are the ones doing it,maybe you should be directing your ire toward the assoc presidents.
Sept. 28, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Robert,

First, as I've suggested before
if this is getting too hot for you
email me at joerinaldi56@yahoo.com
and we can talk it through.
Second, I don't get a dime for
suggesting the video to anyone.
It's the best thing
you'll ever see on hitting
but if you're good enough without
the best professional feedback
so be it.

If you don't see where the quality of the balls are not affecting seniors
and senior play
you are not seeing at all.
Read my lips.
No one, including seniors
likes to or wants to play/hit
with inferior, shitty balls
like the 52x275 ball that's been
trotted around and popping up everywhere
and the caliber of balls has been driven
down systematically
over the last couple of years
by shrewd marketeers in league
with self interested and/or weak
TD's.
This is just the way it is
for anyone who wants to ask questions,
think independently and/or
follow the money.
Do you talk with or are you friends
with Kevin from Anaconda
or the Stoneman from another galaxy???
Who's providing you with "stories"
about me and Rip it or having another agenda???
You said you're a pitcher
and maybe you're getting old and tired
of getting rockets hit at you
and you want to slow things down a bit.
That's understandable, too.

I think it's vital to keep important issues that can disaffect
the majority of us in the forefront,
like what's been happening to senior ball all over the country as a result of the downward trend and movement
to less lively balls.
We ARE being pushed around
by a self serving small group of people
who say they speak for us
and/or are acting in our best interest
and it's pure BS.
And as I have said before,
at least, for me
I've had more than enough.

This feels like it's getting
more personal, Robert,
so, let's be respectful of each other
and everyone else and email me or provide me with your email
and we can take it offline
and spare everyone the personal focus and intensity.
Sept. 28, 2009
Garocket
Men's 55
152 posts
Einstien you have to be the biggest prick on this board. You talk like you are the King of softball. It is evident that you are not worth a Crap or you would not worry so much about the ball. Hell roll me up a sock I will hit it out sometimes with the U2.
If you were half as good as you Think you are you would have a video and I am sure it would be called EINSTIEN THE GREAT. Players that know how to hit can hit most any ball maybe not quite as far but they will still shine. Is that what you are worried about that you are not good enough to shine, You make most of the people on this board sick with your petty little crap. Play the game the way it was designed and the ball or the bat has very little affect on the out come.

You Einstien please fade away, we are getting very tired of your same old crap
Sept. 28, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Anonymity merits no response from me
except to say
that senior balls have been driven down over the last couple of years
for no good reason at the expense of the many who enjoy our game
for the sake of just a few.
I find this unfair, un-democratic,
un-American and unacceptable
and we don't have to take it.
Sept. 28, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
answer the question joe,what senior org has or is getting this ball,none that i know of,they all use the 44-375,and i haven't heard one word on changing that.
i do have video's for hitting,2 by ray demarini(pretty good hitter i think),1 by bob murphy,and another that has rick scheer in it and a couple of the old schooler's from back in the day,so why do i need any more.i hit pretty good as it is now(had a 750 avg for tourney season this yr with some power) so tell me why i need bogie's vid.so joe jump down from the soapbox,as there seems to be no changes of the ball in the future in senior softball.

as for pitching,i do pretty good on the mound for defense(thats why the kids like having me),but it only takes one shaved/painted bat for serious injury or death,maybe thats why assoc are going to a safer ball.

yes i do talk with stoneman and sometimes kevin,is there a prol with that.they seem to know more about the subject at hand than you do.all you can do is shout,"i want the hottest stuff around,and don't care who gets hurt".just hope its not you that gets an eye put out or worse.
this will be the last from me joe.
Sept. 28, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Thanks, Robert.
Hope to see you soon,
somewhere down the road.
Good luck pitching against the kids.
I know that can be harrowing.
Sept. 28, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Whose interest was being served
when Terry Hennessey captained
(I read the email)
a 5 team event in Oakdale
to see if the 52 x 275 ball was usable
for senior ball with Terry saying a deal had been made to test it a couple of times during the year
if the ball was never intended for seniors.
"Wise men often fail
where shrewd men can prevail".
That would also mean shrewd men
and bat doctors, wouldn't it?

The cat's out of the bag, guys.
The 52 x 275 ball is both altered and
a pillow and won't work.
You have to be able to hit square and hard, to drive a ball well
in order to enjoy our game.
If you have to spin/cut a ball to hit it well it fundamentally alters
to the worse
the game we grew up playing and have come to enjoy in our later years.
And what has happened to the lively balls we used to play with all the time.
Where have they gone and why
in only a very short amount of time.
Who have entered the Ball Business/Controversy during this time???
Is there, could there be some connection???
Ask questions and follow the money
and it will become clear as crystal
what and who's going down.
And it doesn't matter how loud or often I say so or who tries to have their friends kill the messenger or BS their way into the BS Hall of Fame, for fun and profit.
BS is still BS and easy to find.
It's plentiful and always smells.



Sept. 28, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
joe you are in the BS hall of shame here.if terry struck up a deal to use this ball i would venture to say it would be used as of now.is it being(except for a test tournament) used now,no.
also i'm not shilling for no one here or any company,its all my thoughts and i have no agenda here unlike you,i have hit the ball and know what it is like,hell you don't care for the MCT ball b/c(and its one of the better balls out now) of what the sound,how it feels,there is no pleasing you.all you want to do is use the hottest equipment out(regardless of safety) and turn our games into hr derby's.our game of softball has never been that except for the very elite,are you that,don't think so.when we were young the game was about defense and base hitting,unless you played super major and i don't think you did,or you could just BS us on how great you were 30 yrs ago.i will admit i never played above B ball,how about you.your on here in your bully pulpit just bashing all who come along that say anything that will contridict you on the ball.i ask how much of a % of ball players you have with you,you have not answered(different thread),or how many players in numbers.
so please refrain from saying i'm talking it up for someone else and trying to BS people to make some money for a company,i wish i could get all this money you say is being made.
Sept. 28, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Robert.
You just said you were done talking
on the thread.
Didn't really know what you were talking
about, eh?
It's obvious given your arguments
to date
but I bet you're loyal to your friends.
Say hi to Jim Carey for me, would you?
Take it off line
if you really have something to say
to me, OK and
show us all some respect at
joerinaldi56@yahoo.com
Sept. 29, 2009
Garocket
Men's 55
152 posts
Einstein Joe. Why do you think everbody is doing something for money except you. I think if Terry had not at least tried the new 52/275 it would have been a disservice to his clients.
After the trial it could have been just what the doctor ordered. It wasn't so he is not using it.
If it was all about the money do you think Terry could not go back to a 47 cor 525 and get Trump to only make that ball with a Senior Softball Stamp and make just as much or more money cause evrybody would be wanting it.

The whole problem is you do not won't the game to be as it was years ago. The scores 8-10 years ago was almosy always single digits with very few homeruns,
You want it so your little punk azz can hit a homerun with out working on your game. You want the technology to hit it for you so you can stick out your chest and hope some fat chick on the sidelines will ask you for your autograph.

I am sure most people on this board would enjoy not seeing you on here at all. You do not speak for the majority, NOT even close
Sept. 29, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
We are being overseen
by a very small group of
myopic and self centered
power freaks,
always hustling and always trying
to sell us something.
Ga-rocket and his buddies
think they have the design that softball
should have and want to super-impose
their self centered and profitable
views on all of us.
Low scoring games
with shitty balls is the way the game
was meant to be played???
Horse Feces.
Most of us want to play with and hit
good balls with good bats.
That's integral to our game.

Most of us are good guys
who go along with what's going down
most of the time
and are easy to take advantage of
and that's why these self centered,
shrewd jerks have some traction.

I can't tell you how many guys
walk up to me at tournaments
and say things like,
"good work" joe
or "right on, einstein"
or "stay on 'em, joe."

Most players are quiet
and love our game
and love to hit good balls
with good bats
and
anything else you hear
is from some self centered,
shrewd sense of ignorant
hustlers
trying to sell us something,
anything,
the latest thing,
their thing,
whether it's some invention,
product or idea that just happens
to be most profitable to them.
ESPN say it best,
C'mon, Man!

Sept. 29, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
well joe,looks like you are gonna be nothing but obnoxious as usaul,not even your thread.as usaul you have posted nothing but lies about me,as you know nothing but your tiny little world.yes i see jim cary some,and i'll tell you,any ball he would sell to ssusa i would definitely use.if it wasn't for you and your squeaky wheel routine,i don't think terry would have tried the ball,so blame yourself.
i don't know what your problem is,but maybe you should see someone for it.you are great at throwing quotes out there,how about something original,or do you know anything.you come on my thread flameing me for something that a softball assoc has done,i just reported it,and its not even a senior one.did you go read it,prolly not.usssa is going to use the ball in cold weather only if you bother to have read the post.
oh by the way,why don't you type more than 4 words a line and save some space,what a waste.
Sept. 29, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Just checked my email to see
if you sent me anything important
to read, comment on or communicate with you about and "Raise my rent",
nothing's there.
You're just a posturing fool
like your buddies
who have nothing to say
and can't defend themselves
from the truth of it all.
Again.
Let's talk it out if you care or if you really have something to say to me.
joerinaldi56@yahoo.com.
Otherwise,
you're with Dirty now
and not worth a response
on this website.
Say hi to Jim Carey and Kevin for me.
Sept. 29, 2009
Foothills
Men's 55
76 posts
Joe , keep up the fight . The ball we are using . Should not be dumbed down . Can`t believe the animosity here concerning the ball. Derogatory names are not warranted . If they feel this strongly . They should look you up in person at a tourney . This is the problem with the internet . It allows people to take a stance and say things , that they would never say to your face . JB
Sept. 29, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
The animosity is from
the powerful few and their loyal
friends and associates who are trying
make out while the quality of the balls
goes down.
Sept. 29, 2009
thebull
Men's 50
59 posts
Single digit scores? Are you for real? You must be playing low level fun league and now you want to return to those good old days of beer ball by dumbing down the Senior's game.You are probably a weak hitter and always have been, it's easier to bring others down to your level than it is to rise to their's. If weak players who are afraid to play against stronger players are allowed to determine the future of Senior Softball then I say "you can have it". You can call it SoftBall-Less. There is nothing wrong with the rules and equipment last year, no changes were required or justified nor should any have been made. If you want to see what people really think just look at the numbers, attendance is way down and dropping.
Sept. 29, 2009
Lecak
Men's 55
1006 posts
thebull is your team playing in the LVSSA this weekend? If not why not? I've been completely baffled by the ball talk and a tournament is being held where they are letting the players hit the best 44/375 ball period along with unlimited HR's in the major plus and singles for all divisions except for AA. Sounds right up your alley. As for Tuscon the tournament has a reputation for not being very friendly towards the upper teams.
Sept. 29, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Ga-Rocket,
Who do you think the majority of
players respect and believe more?
A guy who shows up as himself
stands up and is accountable
and responsible for himself and all his statements and beliefs
or
some anonymous
man or woman or child
who demeans and calls
real men names
then runs away
won't show his/her face
won't reveal his identity,
and is therefore
disrespectful to himself
and everyone else?

And you ride with and support the guys trying to sell us and our game out
for a couple of pieces of silver.
No, whoever you are and aren't,
the majority of seniors recognize
me in them and are listening
and reacting all the time.
They want good bats and balls
and are growing tired of being lied to,
manipulated and used
by a self-centered
and self interested few.
Sept. 30, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
joe you have all your info there,why.do you think you get more respect b/c of it,why.people are allowed to post here without giving out thier personall info for a reason,its called being safe.
i have my info there but do you respect me and my opinion,no,you call me a liar and a fool b/c in your little mind you think i have some pull somewhere,joe i do not.do i talk with these people in a social atmosphere(sp)type setting,yes i do,but thats it.there is no money in this for me what so ever,i do wish there was as i might have been able to do more than 5 tourney's this yr.i'm just putting out facts about equipment and thats that.what are you putting out,nothing.all you have to say is the name calling, you call me and who ever wants to respond to this thread,and doesn't think like you do.get over it,we all are individuals and can think like we want,and we don't need our personal info spread out all over the internet to do it.
Oct. 1, 2009
Airbosn
Men's 65
321 posts
Balls, Balls, Balls. As a tourney official I can state that if we are using poor performing balls, YOU will be bitchin up a storm. I was involved with a national a year or so ago and used a poor performing association approved ball and before the first pool games were finished by the 70 / 65 / 60 age groups the bitchin was loud and plenty. I could not wait for the 50/55's to arrive, lol. Man can those guys get mean. Gentlemen, I am fully
aware of no advantage when teams are using the same equipment. However, team demand good performing balls. If they are not provided they will spend their hard earned money somewhere else... This I have experienced and YOU the players demand good equipment.
Oct. 2, 2009
thebull
Men's 50
59 posts
Lecak, we wonít be in LV until November. We're from an area where it's very difficult to field a full, quality team. We plan on 14-15 players for a weekend and 10 show up so we try to select only 4 or 5 bigger tournaments a year and still have trouble getting enough players. Next year some of us might look for an out of state team to play with. Sense this is a thread about balls I would like to comment on a direction I'd like to see our game take. In previous posts I've been completely against dumbing down the ball/bat performance, but this was primarily in response to players who I believe want to eliminate the home run completely and force the big hitters to play their base hit game. I do agree
that itís too easy to hit a home run but using crap balls or switching to a 52-250 is not the answer,it will ruin our game and drive many players away. A more reasonable solution would be to get rid of the Senior Bats and use USSSA bats. The big hitters use Ultras because they can, not because they need to. If we got rid of the Senior Bats we could settle on a good quality ball that will play more consistent in differing temperatures, last much longer and field well. The Game and the Players benefit from a good quality ball. The softballs I recommend are the Decker (Big Shark 44/375) the Trump (AK-EZ-ISA-Y) and possibly the Worth Gold Dot. Which ever ball we settle on, Tournaments should not be used as a testing ground for new balls, there is no shortage of players who will gladly pound test balls for an evaluation.
thebull
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