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| Oct. 13, 2009 CAT 200 posts | SAFETY FIRST I think that all of us need to refrain from some of the cutezy and self worth comments and start thinking very seriously about the safety in softball. I have played with Joe Merritt for quite a few years and by no means is he slow on his reflexes. For him to take a hit as he did is very frightening. If it became mandatory for pitcher masks and even light head gear for the base running, I think that it would overwhelming be acceptable by all and at all age groups, including the younger divisions. This year,I have heard about too many injuries and deaths from taking shots from a "hot" bat to wild throws from the infield. SSUSA is concerned about one's life with the onhand and usage of the AEDs but why not be concerned about one's loss of vision, brain damage, etc. Let's make it "cool" to wear masks and head protection. Afterall, it did finally become cool to wear them in the NHL !!! |
| Oct. 13, 2009 salio2k Men's 60 547 posts | CAT....I agree. If a mask were to be made mandatory, pitchers would be truly protected. I actually think that there are pitchers that want to wear a mask, but do no want others to think of them as being old,slow or sissies. |
| Oct. 13, 2009 butch17 Men's 55 412 posts | Cat I also agree. If a rule is put in that saves 1 eye 1 face or 1 life it would be worth it. I also agree that the PPR does NOT do this. |
| Oct. 13, 2009 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | have to agree butch,if we can't do that then it will be a ball change to a safer one. |
| Oct. 13, 2009 Omar Khayyam 1357 posts | Good point made again, CAT. And it will probably have to be as salio2k argues—mandatory. I think he is right that a lot of pitchers would wear a mask but fear being a sissy. I started wearing a mask when my vision began to fail and I got a lot of ribbing. Not from my teammates, but other players. Still wear the mask. |
| Oct. 13, 2009 Tate22 Men's 60 280 posts | Great post CAT. Protective equipment provides the only real protection, whether for pitchers, runners, or other defenders. MLB now requires helmets on base coaches because a minor league coach was killed last year. Good point about head gear on the bases. I recently got smacked in the head by a wild throw while running the bases. Salio2K, agree, I'd rather be called a sissy than permanently disabled. |
| Oct. 13, 2009 the wood Men's 65 1123 posts | Don, who said that it was a wild throw? :-) BW |
| Oct. 13, 2009 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | oh woodie LOL.there has been a lot of injuries on the base paths from thrown balls(1 death in MICHIGAN)in the kids game,i think we should where helmits on the base paths b/c of errant throws. unless we play you guys than full body armour.LOL i have the mask and such to use on the mound,but just can't bring myself to use it,don't know why. |
| Oct. 13, 2009 Tate22 Men's 60 280 posts | Woody: They were aiming for my flourescent chicken legs, but the glare blinded them so I got it in the gigantic heed instead. |
| Oct. 13, 2009 the wood Men's 65 1123 posts | Had they hit you in the legs it really would have been a wild throw... because no one our age can be that accurate... :-) |
| Oct. 14, 2009 JohnBob Men's 65 256 posts | CAT,great post and I agree with making the Pitcher wear a mask mandatory. This would do more to protect the Pitcher than anything without changing the game. We need to do anything before putting up a screen. Most good Pitchers like to field their position and take pride when they start a double play or snag a hard line drive. This should never be taken from our game! I'm sure we have played against Joe having played Schones many times over the years. I hope and pray he will be ok. John Coffman Jim & Joe's Ice |
| Oct. 14, 2009 Dirty Men's 50 1371 posts | JohnBob, you want to do something, get rid of the special bats. |
| Oct. 14, 2009 JohnBob Men's 65 256 posts | I will agree we had a better game before senior bats,but they are here to stay, So get over it. |
| Oct. 14, 2009 jah#4 Men's 70 576 posts | there was a bad injury at the winter national in Pensacola a couple weeks ago when the pitcher for Randy Smith was stuck in the side of the head by a thrown ball from the shortstop trying to get a runner at home. you never know when or how the ball going to get you he was watching for the throw to be completed at first when the shortstop was the runner break for home. the pitcher need more protection but to make it mandatory has to take alot of discussion I hope SSUSA and the other will let the players have a part of the discussion before they make it a rule someone has to enforce Don Ward |
| Oct. 15, 2009 jimjoes-gman Men's 55 80 posts | Yes,I agree,regardless of what anyone thinks,the senior bats are here to stay,like it or not.Myself,I rarely comment on the senior site.BUT,I do read the msg board alot.50% of the disscussions posted on the site are guys "tooting their horn" about how many home runs they hit & how far they go.All the while,they are using composite bats & a 20 mile an hr wind blowing out...A pitcher got seriously injured,the thread began with many guys offering there heartfelt condolaces.About half way through about 20 or so responces,the pitchers condition took a seat.Here came the horn blowers talking about the bats ,balls ,& home runs....Now lets get to the PPR. As a pitcher,I & my teammates have always said that I possess "the fastest hands in senior softball" & have made some wildest catches you have ever seen,glove and bare handed.I have been in "jawing matches" before in tense games with opponents.I would "beg" them to hit it at me.I would never entertain the thought of wearing any type of protection.And that includes sun glasses.They are dangerous for any pitcher to wear.You lose a small "edge" on the on coming ball....BUT NOW I AM HAVING SECOND THOUGHTS.Why?...Two weeks ago,my home grown (no pickups)60 Major team was playing a league game, in the dark, against a 50 Major team.A big guy hit a line drive about 12 inches high directly over my head.It happened so fast that my glove hand never reacted at all. I am now thinking more seriously about the PPR since this happened.That being if SENIOR SOFTBALL made every pitcher wear a mask I would probably go along with it.The screen? That would be senseless....RG |
| Oct. 16, 2009 WOW 197 posts | Worried about being called a sissy........ Are you kidding me? At our age? This isn't high school. And what wrong with a screen? Ask the poor guy who just lost an eye! Lets get with the program and start protecting our pitchers BEFORE SOMEONE GETS KILLED!!!!!!!!! |
| Oct. 16, 2009 dj 32 posts | WOW: AMEN dj |
| Oct. 16, 2009 Omar Khayyam 1357 posts | WOW, you're right! |
| Oct. 16, 2009 Tate22 Men's 60 280 posts | All good posts, and all headed in the right direction. First order of business is to get SSUSA to repeal the worthless PPR rule. Second,SSUSA must shift it's focus to safety equipment for pitchers. We can all relate to Jimjoe's experience. Dirty, lesser equipment might lessen the risk, but that comes nowhere close eliminating or drastically reducing the risk for pitchers. I believe protective equipment is the preferable option, but there is a time and place for screens as well. I just hope SSUSA notices that nobody is supporting the PPR, and a vast majority are advocating the use of protective equipment. Terry Hennessey, how about sharing your thoughts?? Don Newhard |
| Oct. 16, 2009 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | Tate22, Terry does not pitch, so he really can't honestly relate. Maybe\Perhaps thinking like many men do from a sexist & or gay perspective or comparison. The Ball ='s an STD (injury or killed). Bat ='s equipment or "special" bat allowed at event. Condom ='s a Screen or other protective equipment. Pitcher ='s Person who doesn't want to get an STD, if he's smart. Hits = sexually active people, who love the middle, lol. Hits uses box, no pun intended, lol, to get on with "game", Pitcher does not know "Hits", and sure doesn't want to contract an STD, given the use of the mighty Bat this Hits person has and uses. So, Pitcher uses one of many Condoms available to him which should be his choice not someone else's. Game play continues. Another year starts soon, we will see then what happens on this. |
| Oct. 16, 2009 Tate22 Men's 60 280 posts | Taits: OKKKK, interesting analogy, but here is my point about Terry. He may not pitch, but he makes sure we all know that he is CEO of SSUSA. He makes the rules according to his view of the world. The buck stops with him on the PPR, HR's as outs, equipment, and team rankings that are allegedly based on an objective formula. I just want him to be reminded that we've almost completed our one-year sentence under the PPR sham, and the vast majority want it changed. We want a direct solution to the pitcher safety question, not an unenforceable rule that doesn't do what it purports to do. |
| Oct. 16, 2009 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | Tate22, I agree. |
| Oct. 16, 2009 grumpy55 Men's 60 102 posts | Alot of guys have brought up the screen for protection. With all the TS that are going on all over who would supply them? |
| Oct. 16, 2009 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | grumpy55, I think most teams use one for BP anyway. If a team has the option and has one they supply it. If they do not, I do not believe the assn should provide one, but give them them that option. If the other team does not have one it's upon them to beg borrow or buy one... Yea, I left out steal, because I know a team that had one taken. It only takes about 3 minutes to put one up, and if pre set up, it's light weight and easily carried on and off the field. |
| Oct. 17, 2009 CAT 200 posts | I had a fall tourn. of which was hampered by rain but i did incorporate rules for the usage of a screen if we had to go into night games of which all of the teams seemed to have liked. IT can be done. However, I would first like to start with required protection such as masks and head guards for the runners...again, "make it cool !! " And if we had to go into night games, make it an agreeable option of both teams to utilize the screen. |
| Oct. 17, 2009 Dirty Men's 50 1371 posts | Larry, I don't see how you can "legislate" the use of this type of protection. If a guy wants to, go for it, but to make a grown man use any of it just to feed the egos of others who are clearly much less secure with themselves is wrong. |
| Oct. 17, 2009 CAT 200 posts | the screened was agreed upon by the coaches at the time of the game; if deemed necessary. It is bad enough to play during the day with the bats we use. I have seen what can happen with a night game. No legislation here. Nothing harmed if two coaches agree. And I feel that the rules were written as such to not deter from the basic game of softball. |
| Oct. 17, 2009 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | Gary, Things were going (game wise) pretty darn good until ASA got they're asinine ideas into the game banning of bats, and down grading of the balls right after. They initiated the start of all that really has begun the down fall of the enjoyment of the game. The rule changes in the last few years really stem them that. Companies had to survive in the meantime and thus the evolution of the composite bats... Composites were around back then but they were nothing like what we have now. Back then I used the best bat(s) if could find and every competitive tournament used the best balls out there, primarily red or blue dots. Leagues used restricted flight Dudley SB12LND balls, a few used non RF balls. Protection became necessary fro me primarily because the lights were way out of prober alignment or didn't even cover the yard. But is it's legal and available use the best you can afford I'd say. SSUSA 'legislated' ""protection"" that only takes place after the harm is done. Others followed suit.So you explain that one to me... other than the blind leading the blind. Play ball. |
| Oct. 17, 2009 Dirty Men's 50 1371 posts | Larry, I understand that, but what if both sides agreed to 5 balls for a walk, or runnig counter-clockwise around the bases. How far does it go? And you hit the nail on the head. "with the bats we use." If there is an issue, and I personally don't have one but many seem to, with safety THIS is the root cause that is always ignored. |
| Oct. 17, 2009 Dirty Men's 50 1371 posts | Scott, most fields I play on now have the same lighting configuration they had 20 years ago, or longer. So I am not sure that is the cause, though clearly most of us don't see at night as well as we used to. As far as the bats, NOTHING is making seniors use bats that are banned for everyone under 50 but insecure guys who want to be able to hit like they probably couldn't 20 years ago. Yea, the PPR is stupid. But so are screens on the field of play, well not unless your field of play is a miniature golf course. Again, as I have said, pro boxers who lose their reflexes don't get to fight with headgear. Cornerbacks who lose a step don't get to have the receiver run backwards. If you can no longer play a particular position, or a particular game, you move on. That is how life goes. |
| Oct. 17, 2009 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | Gary, 20 year old fields say one thing. Out dated. Every thing evolves (gets better) that we use. It's unfortunate that we the users do not we decline. We like the better electronics cars and all. No different from bats. You said you have or use one that make you somewhat like us. Balls are basically the same thing. They go well or they die mid way. Your last ones are just another analogy towards protection, age and gear. you won't see a FB player out there without his gear on. you won't find a boxer in the ring w\o his cup or mouth peace in either. But you will find them using the best of those items for his protection. Just like I doubt you'd find a BB player using a pine wood or bamboo bat. But this is SB. Same type of stuff, but more rule changes than Morton has salt. lol Try a major T again, but check on the rules first... Yes, I do know It's costly as is. |
| Oct. 17, 2009 Dirty Men's 50 1371 posts | Scott, you guys actually turn over fields and light poles more frequently? Sure bulbs get replaced/updated. But how does the field and the locations of the light poles get outdated? If a guy wants to wear stuff, fine with me. Just don't make me wear it, or put a miniature golf obstacle in front of me, or make it illegal to hit a ball at me and take away my ability to play my position. |
| Oct. 17, 2009 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | No but some cities keep more up to date than some others. There are tourneys that aft 250, 265 feet fences still used. Probably some worse than those out there as well. Poles we have for a local "T" one guy put on,& leagues are only 50 feet tall. I believe the norm is around 70-80' Only has two poles of light banks, none on the back side fence, it gets dim in spots at night fence there is 290 to LF and bends around to 252 in RF. Only 15 feet or less from side fencing to base line either side and fence there is not in line with out of play. I vote that you must wear the gear and use the screen, travel to two T's next year, 1 Q and one major. Use your U-2 and pitch a mush ball. ( i won't say which) The other team gets to use any ball they want to hit. Screen would become a part of the field you know that so give that up. Optional at request of the pitcher, not the assn or other team, that's all, It's his ass (body) on the line no one else. But have fun meeting the guys at least in the process. Lets see who scores more runs even with errors and louse at bats. Should be interesting at least. Joking here. |
| Oct. 17, 2009 Gary Heifner 248 posts | Some of you think that by Xing the U2 all will be good. There are a ton of great hitters out there and they will hit the weakest looking part of the defense. the PITCHER area. A few years ago, I kept count of batted balls that made contact with the pitcher and at least caused someone to ask if he was OK. The final count was low 20s with non Mikens and 9 with the U2. The vast majority of the U2 guys drive the ball. If you will simply add an 11th defender who must have both feet on the dirt and be within 5 feet of 2nd base until the ball is hit will end the reign of middle hitters. Try to hit the middle vs this look in practice. You see "4" defenders in the same line of sight and you won't go there. Any grounder with men on base is an automatic Dlb play.The 11th must be positioned as above because some he man pitcher will say I can handle it and the team will play 5 outfielders which defeats the purpose of the 11th defender. I have very quick relexes and will NOT pitch without the mask, shin guards and a cup. I also recommend that after the ball leaves your hand, back up 5 or 6 quick steps. This will give you quite a bit of xtra reaction time. |
| Oct. 17, 2009 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | Gary H. Your correct to a point. But I'd call it intentional placement. I also agree on driving the ball hard, what ever direction it goes. I like the 11 th guy option but don't like the restriction as to placement. The reaction time will depend on player ability but I see your point. A cup..?.. haven't worn one since HS.. didn't then either if I could get away with it. |
