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Discussion: altered bats

Posted Discussion
Oct. 14, 2009
neck10
488 posts
altered bats
if there are any altered bats they would be the ones breaking after 10 swings you can only have a bat so thin and an ultra 2 is already there!!!!!!!I would have to guess that less than 1 percent is the number of altered bats these combats & ultra 2's should keep the altered bats out!!!!!
Oct. 14, 2009
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2617 posts
I agree, keep senior bats!
Dec. 24, 2009
neck10
488 posts
what do you do about the bats that bat sponcered teams use the are a little better than the ones off the shelf.we had a guy on our team that his room mate played for demarini,he would get these bats & wouldnt let us swing them we would hit the ball over the fence with the stock bats right off the shelf ,but he would hit the ball over the lights.we went to birmingham to asa nationals back in the nighties had to practice on baseball fields the rest of us hit maybe one ball over the fence in BP he was hitting every other ball over the fence.I told him to hit my bat he still hit it out just not as far.so what Im saying is the bat has a lot to do with it but a $300.00 bat & a .25 cent swing doesnt get it,but a $300.00 bat & a million dollar swing will work every time.back when we all started ball were hard & went a long way,now bats are better & ball still goes a long way.but a good hitter going middle with a wood bat can still hurt you if you are not protected,you should be able to use what ever is availible to hit with & also use what is availible to protect your picher!!!!!!!!!!!
Dec. 24, 2009
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
neck10,Not "all" altered bats break after 10 swings......I know some players who have them and used them all year long.
Dec. 24, 2009
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
#6

Ever thought about reporting what you know to get rid of the Altered bats? Or confronting those Cheaters individually.
There are ways to do it anonomously.
Dec. 24, 2009
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
E4/E6,
You will never get rid of the altered bats,if players are going to cheat, their going to cheat.
Dec. 24, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
#6, you could say the same thing about all criminals, so should we have no laws? Or Law Enforcement?
Dec. 24, 2009
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
#6,

Cheaters must be held accountable.
We know we can never rid our society of drugs either, but we continue to try.
There cant be any tolerance for this behavior, its just not acceptable.
IMO

Dec. 24, 2009
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
I am not the bat police
Dec. 24, 2009
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
BY THE WAY,
These players have been checked about their bats from several umpires and were left to play.
Dec. 24, 2009
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
#6

Sorry, I didnt mean to put you on the spot.
But I feel each of us has the responcibility to the rest of Senior Softball and her players, to keep it clean. To help keep the competition as even as we can.
Again, sorry for putting you on the spot.


Dec. 24, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
E4/E6 i have refused to pitch to the kids with dirty bats,well can't say refuse but lets put it this way,they didn't get anything that they could swing at,LOL.when question about it,i just told them put the dirty bat away,and come stock,and i'll pitch to ya.i know i can't catch them all,but if i know one ,thats what i do to them.this is mostly done in league tho,where i know the clowns that like to juice,paint and etc,sure is a waste of time for them to come to league and be walked all the time.tourney's are different as i don't know most of the teams,i might suspect a team of being dirty but can't prove it.
Dec. 25, 2009
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
E4/E6,
Your not putting me on the spot Buddy,It's that if the umps won't call it,what cha do ?Seen several altered bats being use and when the umps were notified,they say looks fine to me.Go figure.
Dec. 26, 2009
flydub
14 posts
I think it should be posted that in the case of an injury due to a hard batted ball the bat will be impounded. The owners name and address be taken by the tournament. If the team won't provide ownership they would be subject to sanctions. If the bat is found to be substanially altered the owner of the bat may then be subject to civil and criminal prosecution depending on the severity of the injury. I would hope people would then think twice. There is no question altered bats are being used especially in critical moments of some games.
Dec. 26, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Whatever happened to due process? No one has the right to confiscate any property of mine, or anyone else's, without a warrant.

When do softball rules supercede civil liberties? Yes I know there are cheaters, and yes I know something needs to be done about it, but taking someone else's personal property on a hunch/whim because some pitcher could not field his position is NOT the answer.
Dec. 26, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
well usssa does it now.they tested bats at the open major tourney this yr after hrs were hit and one player got tossed from the tourney when his bat comp tested to low(anything under 200 to compress it more than a certain distance,not sure what it is,i think 1/2",but not sure).its like race cars are impounded for tech spec after races.
also if you don't want your stuff inspected must have something to hide.
Dec. 26, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
That is not what Utrip is doing. They certainly have the right to make their own rules, and to prevent you from participating if you choose not to follow them, but they CANNOT take your bat without your permission.

They can bar you from playing in their event if you don't, but again they CANNOT force you to relinquish your bat without a court order they clearly would not have.
Dec. 26, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
mmmm maybe you should ask the head of usssa(don Deonatis) as he did it when a hr was hit against his son's team(resmondo) and the team he did to walked in protest from the tourney(usssa major open worlds).
Dec. 26, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
also to add usssa has been doing it at worlds for the last couple of yrs,in all divisons.
and yes they do take your bat if you serously hurt a pitcher,or you get banned for at least 2 yrs.
Dec. 27, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Are you capable of connecting the dots?

Yes they take the bats, IF YOU LET THEM. They CANNOT just take your bat, what you think this is Cuba?

And yes, they can ban you from their organization. But they CANNOT just take your bat. It is called theft.
Dec. 27, 2009
stever
Men's 65
61 posts
I think we all realize the choice of giving up a bat or being banned is our choice alone and nobody is, technically, CONFISCATING it. No need for sarcasm.
Dec. 27, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
I am truly not sure that mad dog understands this.
Dec. 27, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
mmmm let me see,i said the bat gets confiscated(taken) if you hit a pitcher,or your banned for 2 yrs,what part of that don't you understand dipty.stever not sure who you r voiceing your post to,but dipty is full of himself,as he knows everything,kinda like einstien,just ask them.
Dec. 27, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Since when is being knowldegeable a problem?

Why should the batter have to make that choice because the pitcher could not do his job?
Dec. 27, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
ok on the bat being taken at the usssa worlds(major div,not a senior tourney,youngens)resmondo had a hr hit agianst them and the TD(his son plays for resmondo) had the bat comp tested right then and there,i think it was dan smith team.the bat came back less than 200(which supposedly is the mark for the 1.20 BPF).the prol with this it was done during the game,no bats were tested before like they normally do.once the bat tested to low,the player was ejected from the rest of the tourney.dan smith protested and told the TD to pack sand and left the tourney.

the big boys can really only get from 50-75 swings on thier bats(stock) before they comp test below the 200 mark.
Dec. 27, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
being knowledgeable,and just thinking your are are 2 different things,yours is thinking you know.
b/c thats usssa rules.
Dec. 27, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
my bad it was long haul who had the player tossed.here is the link to read about it.

http://www.softballfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=711206&highlight=usssa+bat+testing
Dec. 27, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Tell 'em, Gary.
Knowledge is power.
And in the land of the blind
the one eyed man is king.

All the hullabaloo about cheaters
which again is not a major problem of concern
in senior ball and
is most players' way of making sure
they have a good time hitting the ball
and don't get punked by other's
who might be cheating.
Maybe the way to deal with this
is how SPA does it and that is to check
and label all the bats at sign in
and go around with a compression checker/
balance point checker/altered bat checker
randomly throughout the tournament
and check bats of guys who've had their bats
labeled and suspend guys/managers
and their bats right there.

Fundamentally, we should move against
bat cheaters and cheating by going at
and against them directly without punishing
and changing the game for everyone else.
Let's return the game to one where
fairness, fun, sportsmanship
and right minded players, run it and rule.
Dec. 28, 2009
flydub
14 posts
Einstein, I totally agree. A serious injury to a pitcher, or infielder by a bat which has proven to be altered will result in the appearance of A) a lawyer B)car load of lawyers C) bus load of lawyers. Correct answer B.
Dec. 28, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4315 posts
As of late it seems, it doesn't take an altered bat to bring fourth the "B" situation.
Dec. 28, 2009
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
sometimes all one needs is a Trump.
Dec. 28, 2009
spoonplugger
Men's 60
57 posts
We can use senior bats. If someone needs to cheat BAN him for life. Every time someone joins SSUSA or other associations make them sign a form that they will turn over their bat to have it checked out if there is any question. For current members have them do it when they renew.
Dec. 28, 2009
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
More changes?
Dec. 28, 2009
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
spoonplugger,

Sign a form,get a new ball,get a new bat,get the pitchers safety equiptment,where in the hell is this going to stop.!
Dec. 28, 2009
spoonplugger
Men's 60
57 posts
#6-- Doesn't cost anything to sign a form.--we have the ball.--we have the bat.--pitchers have to sign a waiver if they don't use the shinguards and mask, what are the hitters afraid of? I'll sign one.
Dec. 28, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
spoon thats the problem,if we use the proper equipment as in a safer ball we wouldn't have to jump thru all these hoops.everyone i see making the case for the hot equipment, says"well its to bad if you get hit by a rocket,you don't have to play",hey why don't you all go and get your own div and use 50 cor and the gray ultra's..why should i have to put my life on the line,for something i get 0 $ for.its a damn rec sport,nothing to die for,which will happen with the hot bat/ball combo we have now.
its like going to do paintball and someone wants to use a 45 instead of a paintball gun,yeah right.

as for the cheaters they do need to be banned.
also in you last post,its not the hitters who are on pins and needles,or afraid.
Dec. 28, 2009
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Dec. 28, 2009
spoonplugger
Men's 60
22 posts
"People move into new communities all the time, because they like it. Then they get on zoning, planning, beautification committees, etc. and want to change things. We just tell them they should go back to where they came from. The balance is here in all divisions. I knew the rules when I joined SSUSA, SPA, etc. and that's why I play."

Spoon, I'm a bit confused, are you for change or not. Here you are, but the above post indicates otherwise.
Help clear this for me, OK?
Dec. 29, 2009
spoonplugger
Men's 60
57 posts
E4/E6--- You don't seem confused on the other dicussion where you read it.This discussion about altered bats.
Mr. 129 posts. Have a nice day. Spoonplugger
Dec. 29, 2009
neck10
488 posts
do you guys think an altered bat say a easton stealth is as hot as a regular miken ultra 2.if not what would the batter acomplish.the only way to check the bat would be with the machines right,I dont know this Iam asking?
Dec. 29, 2009
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
spoonplugger,
It's not the question about "all you have to do is sign a form".Today the pitcher has to sign a form,tomorrow,will we "all" have to sign a form.And your comment about what are the hitters afraid of,makes no sense at all.You want to pitch and wear all that crap,go ahead,if you want to pitch and sign that form,be my guest.Everybody should do what's best for them, this is about continuing to change the game.I don't get it,and no I am not a pitcher !
Dec. 29, 2009
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Spoonplugger,

Thats what I thought!

Thank you.........
Dec. 29, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Spoonplugger,
Me too and I'd sign a waiver
and so would most of us
to not sue an Association for
any damages coming from batted balls
to keep our game going the way we want.
I never got why that wouldn't be legal
or stand up in court.
Dec. 29, 2009
flydub
14 posts
It costs approximately $165 plus shipping to have a bat shaved and rolled. Google shave, and rolled softball bat. If a batter then uses this bat in a game and drives a line drive into the pitcher or an infielder resulting in them being badly injured, and hospitalized. What is the fair response to take to the batter?
Dec. 29, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
well flydub,according to the hero's here it would be 1)learn how to field,2)change to another position,3)quit playing.this would be for the poor fielder who got hurt,as for the batter it prolly would be,hey man you hit that ball hard(with some hi-fiving throw in there)as they are carting the poor fielder/pitcher off to the hospital.
Dec. 29, 2009
spoonplugger
Men's 60
57 posts
The form that I would sign would say that I don't use altered bats.
flydub:Ban him for life and let him get his ass sued, and if he signed the form more power for the pitcher's lawsuit. Remember I love the hot corner.
Dec. 29, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
if proven bat is altered,that SOB should be held accountable for his actions(lifetime ban,sued for all medical bills,etc),but from what i have read on here that would be a problem as no one seems to want to give up thier bat to be tested.its thier personal properety and no one has the right to take it.
Dec. 29, 2009
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
flydub,
Just for the record,you can get them shaved and rolled in Austin for $50.00,but if you can swing the Ultra 11, the MM,the Toxic or a number of the other senior bats,why would you have one shaved ?For $50.00 some of these players could buy their protection from these hot balls and bats.
Dec. 29, 2009
flydub
14 posts
#6 the reason a team would pull out a rolled, and shaved bat is the same reason someone would use steriods. It unfortunately works. I had batting practice with an illegal ultra 2 and it is amazing. As promised the ball went 50 feet further. I would be afraid to use it in a game. I don't think there are a lot of pitchers, or third basemen in the 60's who are going to be able to get their glove up to stop a hard line drive off an illegal ultra 2. We are probably lucky no ones been killed.
Dec. 31, 2009
curty
Men's 60
102 posts
I checked with area UIC about "confiscating" of bats. Told that in the case of injury suspect bat (and ball) can be considered a WEAPON in the commission of a crime. The crime could be intent to do bodily harm, with knowledge afore hand. As the policing authority, the TD CAN AND WILL confiscate the bat. USSSA policy.
Dec. 31, 2009
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
flydub,
I am not a home run hitter at all.maybe two or three in the last several years,but I do know bats.We hit an "altered bat" in batting practice,we also hit the Ultra 2,the altered bat was the Red Recoil from Miken,we still hit better and more power with the Ultra 2,go figure.yuour up !
Dec. 31, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
curty, I am not trying to be a wiseguy but what law school, or at the very least police academy, did this UIC graduate from? They CANNOT legally confiscate the bat. Sure they can ban you from playing because they can make their own rules, but to call the bat a weapon in the commission of a crime is to absurd it is laughable.

They cannot confiscate the bat, and only will if the owner lets them.

It is really just that simple.
Dec. 31, 2009
AZBaller
44 posts
Shaved and rolled $50 in Phx....All you have to do is take the weight out of the handle on an U2 and cut 3/4's of it off and reinsert the rest back in the handle and you got almost 90 to 95% of what it was when it first came out about 8 years ago.....
Dec. 31, 2009
SSUSA Staff
1127 posts
While technically correct that a player is not required to surrender a suspected altered bat, and the SSUSA has no legal right to confiscate one, there are repercussions that may result should the player/bat owner decline to voluntarily surrender the bat to SSUSA tournament officials for further testing. It is only fair those repercussions be noted here. The applicable provisions are contained paragraph 5 of the SSUSA's "Manager Agreement" which is required to be signed by each team manager on an annual basis before playing in their first tournament of the season.
__________

5. Bat Policy Agreement

I will inform all of my players of the following condition for participating in any SSWCI event:

Penalty for Using an Altered Bat: “If a bat is suspected of being altered to enhance performance, the tournament committee will determine if the bat will continue in play or be held for inspection. If the player refuses to turn over the bat, the player will be suspended for 10 years and the manager for one year and the team will forfeit all games. If the player voluntarily releases the bat and it is found to be altered to enhance performance, the player will be suspended for 5 years and the manager for one year. A second offense may result in the lifetime ban of the player.”
Dec. 31, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Which is all I have been saying all along. Associations have the right to make their own rules as long as they don't run counter to actual laws, and they have the right to ban participation if those rules are not followed, but they have no legal right to take personal property.
Dec. 31, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
its what i said usssa says give it up or auto suspension
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