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Discussion: FACT OR FICTION?

Posted Discussion
Oct. 16, 2009
ROOSTER10
Men's 60
91 posts
FACT OR FICTION?
We can go on and on about PPR and Protection, screens, masks etc.but the bottom line is as Seniors we can hurt in many ways other than pitching etc.
There are many views from all of you and I think the bottom line is that we want to make the game safe at all times if possible but unfortunately circumstances come up when something happens.We all love the game otherwise we would not play or voice our opinions
as we do on this message board.The economy has caused alot of players to look at what tournaments they will go each year and everyone has a opinion which is better!We all play at different levels of competition but the bottom line is no one wants to see a player get hurt.I wish I had the answers but negative responses on this subject does not or will not correct anything that goes on.Is the answer better balls, bats-maybe playing fields?I know in our FHC Assoc. we do have injuries but we have no PPR,we do use screens only if the first game of the day is in a field which blinds the pitcher.I know this discussion will go on forever because I see no real solution besides wanting our fellow Seniors to be safe at all times.
Oct. 16, 2009
Mr. Manassas
230 posts
Amen....Good post!!
Oct. 16, 2009
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
yes rooster,good post.yes we get injuries,but its the life threatening ones that need to be eliminated,which can be done by using safer equipment(bats,balls).yes i do like to use good equipment and such,but have no prol with going "back in time" per say and maybe use metal bats with our current ball.
Oct. 16, 2009
Omar Khayyam
1004 posts
Safer equipment is the ultimate solution, but seems unlikely with the ego-building love affair with the Miken and its hot brothers. A screen is a big help, but unfortunately only for the pitcher (who is closest to the bat after all) and doesn't do much for the sun-blinded infielders. In those cases, I hold the TD responsible for field scheduling considering the time of day and the umpires responsible when games extend into twilight and a change of field should be made.
Oct. 16, 2009
ShaneV
Men's 55
382 posts
I agree, good posts.

It occurs to me that life-threatening is a good threshhold to use to better frame the discussion. Could we say that 99.9% of the risk of life-threatening injury are face/head shots and that everything else, as much pain as it may cause, are very unlikely to be life-threatening?

If that's generally true (EMT's and Doctors jump in here), should we be employing facemasks and/or helmets even before a cup?

And then, for me, it follows that when talking about reducing the risk of life-threatening injuries, a mask/helmet is the obvious answer. And next, it still should be the player's choice to protect him/herself. And finally, a life-threatening injury can only result from the player's choice not to employ that protection. End of (bat/ball) discussion?

ShaneV
Oct. 16, 2009
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
why the end of bat/ball discussion shane,its them that cause the problem.not all life threatening injuries are of the face/head vareity.you can be hit on a shin or other body area's and get blood clots,infections before you realalize they are there.
Oct. 20, 2009
BossBandit
Men's 50
55 posts
I have been slow to join this discussion but I need to point out some facts rather than conjecture. For the last several years there has been a great deal of discussion about injuries incurred from batted balls as being the leading edge of a need for required protection of some type for pitchers or other players on the field. Is there anyone else here that has actually read the injury reports from Parks and Recreation departments about the types of injuries reported. Way over 95% of the injuries reported are from thrown ball impact / sliding injuries / player collisions / bad hops on batted balls / no contact pulled muscle and sprains/strains.

In today's game, my impression is that the number of life-threatening contact hits are as much a product of people with no concern about the health and well-being of other players as it is anything else. There seems to be a lack of consideration for the other individuals in the game who have to go to work on Monday morning. We need to bear in mind that our egos being bruised because we aren't allowed to hit as many home runs as we feel we deserve does not justify the lack of concern for the well-being of our brothers by saying "Oh well, we're out of homers guess I have to shoot the middle, buzz the tower, ring the bell!" Insert whatever stupid statement belongs there.

We can not protect everyone from every possible type of injury and if we are intent on playing the game, we do need to show the good sense to play at the level our skills qualify us to play. Bats and balls are part of the equation, field prep and mindset and fate and attitudes also enter into the discussion and need to be addressed.

Bat alteration moves the whole process into a different dimension and needs to be addressed also.

Rant off, I've said most of what I meant but I'll be around off and on to see anything that is added.
Oct. 20, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Boss, that was beautiful. :)

And VERY true.
Oct. 20, 2009
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
yes boss a very good post,but if in the process we save just 1 life(or serious injury) by going to a safer ball and/or bat combo,we should do it,i think.yes i do like my senior bats,but i'm willing to go back in time per say to make this happen,(metal bats and such).at this age we should play and have fun,playing both sides of the ball(offense and defense)and not be worrying about getting killed or seriously injured playing.
Oct. 20, 2009
Lefty
Men's 65
505 posts
Good post boss. mad dog when I was hitting with metal bats we were using 525/47core balls. I don't about you but I was still hitting that hard softball over a 300 foot fence. I got hit this year right between the eyes with a bad hope in the outfield this year. So what about the field. More people get hurt by a bad field or bad throw. Look at the infield next time you go the a tourneyment you will see rocks. The park doesn't seem to care if the ball hits this rock an hurts someone bad. If someone can't field the pitchers possition drop down to a lower level or buy protective gear. 2 strikes an a pitcher puts the ball on the out side of the plate he should know to back up.
Oct. 21, 2009
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
got to agree with ya lefty-joe.back in those days i also could do the 300',but unlike now a days with an u-2 or senior combat,where i can get closer to 400' than not.hey i really don't care as long as it is over the 300' and with a metal bat it would give me more satisfaction to do,yeah i do accept the u-2 ones.LOL
on the field conditions,don't get me started on that one,no field prep,bad sun fields,batters boxes 6-10" deep,lighting real bad.
Oct. 23, 2009
curty
Men's 60
108 posts
I would like to see the ppr rule updated: Any ball hit thru the pitcher's box, from the ground to pitchers height + 6" would be a dead ball out.This does not have to hit the pitcher. Currently, it takes an injury to be dbo and that is certainly not the intent of the rule. So many on here are concerned with homeruns and feel that they must hit middle when used up, forget that we have had to advance equipment so we can hit homeruns!

Oct. 23, 2009
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
I said I wouldn't get into one of these discussions anymore but I have to put my 2 cents in.

If the players would put their egos aside IMO one of the best ways to protect the pitcher is using the an 11th fielder up the middle as a rover. I know that hitters don't like that as it takes about 100 points off their average but it does give some protection to the pitcher without tinkering with the equipment and the game.
Oct. 23, 2009
hitman
Men's 65
309 posts
Shouldn't have went there Fred as adding an 11th fielder is tinkering with the game. While it will get some outs it doesn't do anything to stop hitters from hitting the pitcher and protecting him. It's just like now for a DBO the pitcher has to get hit in the box so how does it protect the pitcher. Getting hit hurts and can cause life threatening injuries but the the PPR doesn't stop that.

The Hitman #13
Oct. 23, 2009
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
Fred... how is using an 11th defensive player not tinkering with game???... One change, a different ball, is all that is needed... Nothing else... Keep your bats, no PPR, nothing!
Oct. 23, 2009
JohnBob
Men's 60
248 posts
#19 I agree 100%,a ball like the one used last week in Phoenix will do more to protect the Pitcher than any rule. Ball still would leave the park if hit just right and went through infield ok but not like a missile where Pitcher or corner infielder didn't have time to move their glove like it does when using a hot ball, and that ball put defense back in game, that we had gotten away from last few years.
Oct. 23, 2009
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
We play with the 11th fielder in all our Senior games in our area and we have very few pitchers have balls hit at them on purpose (except for a couple of players). Most of the time hitting up the middle is an out our double play if man on first and that is what you.

Your counter arguments don't make sense unless you have done it which is why I said I would never get involved in one of these threads again.

There is more to Senior Softball than all the hotshots on this board.
Oct. 23, 2009
grumpy55
Men's 60
102 posts
Fred,I agree with you all the way. Have not done it in senior ball, only 16" here in the midwest, different game but same results if you know how to play the middle.
Oct. 23, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
19, I love you. lol

You sooooo get what this is all about.

Fred, keep in mind you are much older than must of us. God bless you for still playing, but the 50s don't need ot play by 70s rules.

If a guy cannot field his position, move. It is really quite simple.
Oct. 24, 2009
JohnBob
Men's 60
248 posts
Fred, the 11th fielder may be ok for 70 and over but I'm not there yet got 6 more years. Sure hope I'm able to go then. I like the game as close to the way we played it before senior bats, no PPR, no screen etc. In order for this take place for us young guys ha ha is use a average ball,not a rag but also not a hot ball that some hit 500+ feet and goes through infield so fast that pitcher and corner infields don't have a change. Pitcher's should still wear a mask and like I have said before most Pitcher's want to field their position.
Hope this fines you well and keep on playing.
Oct. 24, 2009
DCPete
242 posts
We just had a player in our area die. He had been in a coma since his injury one year ago. There was no bat or ball involved; he was in a collision at 1st base and fell and hit his head on the ground.
Clearly there's no consensus on how the game should be made safe & just as clearly, a game of this nature will NEVER be completely "Safe".
While there are a lot of good ideas posted here, most/all of them are pie-in-the-sky, will never be agreed to, will never happen, etc.
So here's 1 more: RAISE THE FREAKING ARC TO 15 OR 20 FEET FOR CRYING OUT LOUD . . .
Oct. 24, 2009
DCPete
242 posts
We just had a player in our area die. He had been in a coma since his injury one year ago. There was no bat or ball involved; he was in a collision at 1st base and fell and hit his head on the ground.
Clearly there's no consensus on how the game should be made safe & just as clearly, a game of this nature will NEVER be completely "Safe".
While there are a lot of good ideas posted here, most/all of them are pie-in-the-sky, will never be agreed to, will never happen, etc.
So here's 1 more: RAISE THE FREAKING ARC TO 15 OR 20 FEET FOR CRYING OUT LOUD . . .
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