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Discussion: Phoenix 60's Major Plus

Posted Discussion
Oct. 18, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Phoenix 60's Major Plus
Just finished the 60's major plus
tournament in Phoenix.
It was won by a very deserving
GSF team over a very game
and courageous MTC club
having played so many games
coming back from the losers bracket
in 95 + degree heat.
Great game both teams.
Congrats to Woody and Conway, Ron,
Corky, Danny Mac, Billy and Chuck
and
to Larry Campbell, coach of MTC
and Steve Owens who showed his elite
power hitting credentials
pounding a poorly performing ball
through the wind and high heat
for 2 line drive home runs
in the final game.

Franny was there and she was/is great
and a great administrator for us
and our game with her beautiful green eyes and her generously gracious manner.

The ball, the Trump Stote ball
is less a ball than I remember
or want to remember.
I feel it's been getting dumbed down
since a couple of years ago
and a lot of players have noticed it
and say the same thing.
Compared to Vegas
this ball is a dog and not acceptable
to most.

Balls were whistling through and to
the middle because guys
couldn't hit the ball confidently
and well enough to try and get on base
rendering the PPR and home runs as outs
useless in deterring middle hit balls.

Jim Carey says the balls being shitty
is the direct result of TD's or Associations wanting dumbed down balls
that won't be lost or chased after.
That's not what Ridge said about
the balls he uses in SPA
or what Dave and Fran say
about the balls they want to use
in SSUSA.
Hmmmmmm.
Here we go again.
Someone is driving and wanting
to drive the liveliness of balls down
for some reason
and blaming in on the tournament directors and asociations???
Who could or would want the caliber
of balls being driven down that we use
and why?
How or why would this help ball
manufacturers or in particular
one ball manufacturer?
What's happened to all the good balls
that used to be around.
Diamonds, Deckers, Dudleys, NRG's
even Baden's used to be good
and Worth, too.
What's happened to all of them
in just the last couple of years
and has anyone come into the market
place with a plan and means
to capture/corner the market place
to their own ends???
These are some terrific questions
which produce very specific
and telling answers when asked to
and about
the right people and just
add a sprinkling of
"Follow the money", connect some dots
and Voila
what's really going down.

I don't care who's balls we use
as long as they're good ones.
The balls in Vegas were good.
The balls or caliber of balls we used
in Phoenix are not good.
Single wall bats and Blue Dot balls
is the yardstick we want in Senior ball.
Intrinsic enjoyment and even safety
will be compromised
if we don't get/hit with good bats
and balls.
Kevin can make ALL





Oct. 18, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
(Con't)
the bats and balls.
I really don't care
as long as they're good ones.
Oct. 19, 2009
turn2
486 posts
Congratulations to Bob and Conway from GSF for there big win.
If we would have known all those teams from Ca. and all over were coming we would have tried to make it there.
Maybe next year.
Later,
Donnie
Turn Two
Oct. 19, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4403 posts
Joe,
I think the manufacturers are tinkering with you mind just to be mean. It's working.
Kind a like what the economy is doing with the players pocket books.

Correct me if I'm wrong but, didn't SF restrict bats to SW's, but don't use blue dots now either?
Oct. 19, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
The balls in Phoenix
weren't fun to play with
like the balls in Vegas.
Pure and simple.
They don't react well in the heat
if they are even the same ball
we used last year.
Being so close to Vegas
it was easy to tell the difference
and the smiles were gone, too.
We need a good bat/ball combo
We don't care whose bats
and balls we use as long as
they're good enough.
These balls did NOT perform
well enough was the majority opinion.
Even Jim Carey said so.
Listen.
We don't care specs from shinola.
We don't care whose balls we use.
We want to hit good balls.
Vegas caliber balls were good enough.
Phoenix caliber balls were not.

It's going to be cooler this coming weekend in Phoenix up to Sunday
I was told and that should help
the balls perform a little better.


Oct. 19, 2009
Wes
Men's 65
312 posts
einstein--if you are still here

I'm looking to buy 3 doz DP balls-I was
looking at the new, I think they are new,DP balls that are orange & white--they say they go easy on the new bats---I have you used them??? how long do they last---I try a hit 100-150 each weekend.
Wes
Oct. 19, 2009
DoubleL10
Men's 65
836 posts
Joe, It was good to see you with the Old A's in Phoenix! I certainly share your impressions about the Trump Stote. If you were "lucky" enough to play the 8:00 or 9:30 AM games, the balls performed much better than in the high 90s afternoon. The few homeruns we hit (3 as a team in Majors) were hit in the earlier games. I suspect these balls were used rather than the Trump Rock which was used in Vegas and is a very good ball is $$. I understand the Rocks are considerably more expensive than the Stotes so it comes down to budget $$ for balls.
Oct. 19, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Wes,
I hit balls I've had for years
in BP, but I don't swing
any game bats during BP.
I'm not the one to ask.
There's other guys on here who will know better about good BP balls like Joe Lecak
or Bruce Fairchild or Stoneman.
Oct. 19, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Maybe I am confused, but if the "Balls were whistling through and to
the middle" how bad could they have been? Doesn't it take at least a decent ball to "whistle"?
Oct. 19, 2009
DoubleL10
Men's 65
836 posts
Wes, I, like Joe normally use old balls for BP. However, when I played with the Old A's last year, Gary Tryhorn had some of the Orange/White balls. They are made by Evil and are less than $40/dozen. They do not damage composite bats and they react well for the purpose of BP - just to get some swings and work on hand/eye coordination prior to games. Just MHO.
Oct. 19, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
It was good seeing you, too, Larry.
I know Joe Lecak hit with those
orange and white ones and Stoneman
has/had some of them, also.
Oct. 19, 2009
sliplayer
Men's 60
70 posts
Congratulations to GSF for winning the Senior Softball 60 Major Plus tournament. Excellent field of teams who all played hard and competitively, well run tournament with a few needed tweaks for next year. Great games on Sunday, in the heat with not so great balls (because of the heat) and the sun in our eyes in the final innings of Championship game (both teams no excuses), playing the game the way it is suppose to be played. I would hope in the future the management team would make sure championship games would be played on fields that the sun would not be a factor (we had opened fields).
GSF great ballplayers and even better individuals who play hard and fair and are very deserving this week end, good job Bob and Spider. Class Act!!!!
SLi
MTC
Oct. 19, 2009
CRUSADERVB
Men's 65
272 posts
THANKS STEVE....THE SUN WAS HORRIBLE IN THE FINAL GAME, AS YOU STATED, THEY COULD HAVE MOVED US TO ONE OF THE 2 VACANT FIELDS. BACK AT YOU BROTHER, SEE YOU IN VEGAS.
Oct. 19, 2009
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2733 posts
Einstein, in Bogie's dvd Kevin uses the orange and white bp balls. I've never used them. I do have some of their 50/125 (if I remember right) bp balls. They fly about 70 feet shorter than regular balls but don't pick up any water when the grass is wet and won't harm bats as much as 44/375's. One more thing, you don't lose as many! They're much like the 52/275's, you have to hit them just right to hit it over 300'.
Oct. 19, 2009
the wood
1096 posts
Joe, Donnie & Steve:
Thanks for your kind words... we were blessed with a good seeding draw, a fortunate bye (less games in the heat), etc...
Steve, we concur with all that you stated about the tourney. The choice of fields for the final game was less than sterling. The balls were not lively but we knew that the heat would compromise them. They could be stored in ways that would lessen this effect.
Having said this, there were many more positives than negatives... good field of teams, field conditions were excellent (they were drug and watered frequently), plenty of pre-tourney info, very few PPR incidents (in our games), the schedule was fairly well maintained (very few lags).
There were 7 teams in our division... they had about 14 guys each... this means that over 80 guys our age were out there battling it out in the heat... there were a couple of cardiac issues and I'm told that both were handled well.
No one battled more than MTC... they had to win 4-5 games to get back to the finals... they were short a few guys and had a tourney-ending injury to another... but they were in the other dugout in the championship game. I also was impressed with the Rickers team... they won a couple of games in the last inning and barely lost another on a walk off HR.
One thing is for certain about that ball and the heat... there were no cheap HRs... only the guys with true power hit them... we played 5 games and only hit 8 of them. We also won every one of games by 4 runs or less... good parity among the 7 teams.
The difference between this year and last (60 M+) is huge... more teams, better field conditions... the HRs were about the same... IMO, it boiled down to timely hitting and reliable defense.
BW
Oct. 19, 2009
Dbax
Men's 60
1299 posts
"One thing is for certain about that ball and the heat... there were no cheap HRs... only the guys with true power hit them"

Exactly how it should be.
Oct. 19, 2009
Gekle BUilders
Men's 50
204 posts
Congradulations Woody,Sounds like you had your hands full and won some tight games.Good job Wood,I will be in Phoenix Thursday,first game against Mavs.3:30 Friday.

Ray
Oct. 19, 2009
BMoney
37 posts
I don't post here much,part of it is the constant griping and complaining about balls and the hi-jacking of the entire message board by these posts.
I also am really tired of reading the attacks on Trump ball even if he is not mentioned by name. He does not need me to defend him,he does pretty good himself.
If this is all that posters can think to say on this board; I will even quit reading it.
Senior softball is fun and these negative poster are not going to ruin it for me.
Money
Oct. 19, 2009
the wood
1096 posts
DBAX: I'm ok with confining HRs to the real HR hitters... my ideal set of circumstances would be somewhere between the conditions of the LVSSA and this one... I like the thought of defense playing a big part.

Ray: Thanks... perhaps it will be a little cooler for you guys... but having seen your guys (and the Mavs), you'll hit a lot more out than our division did regardless of the weather.

BMoney: just exactly who are you referring to?
BW
Oct. 19, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Las Vegas was a blast, Woody.
We don't need rocket balls but we need
good balls, better than the Trump Stote
balls we used in Phoenix.
They go soft in the heat.
So, Bax,
if I hit some home runs in Phoenix
then I've got real power?
Even with a bad leg and out of shape?
Thanks for the complement.
Oct. 19, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
And Woody,
why capitulate when there's no evidence
that softball is more dangerous
with Ultra 2's and good balls
than at any other period in recent softball history.
Terry Hennesey actually did a survey/study
to find out if there were more
injuries with the Ultra 2 and he found
out there weren't.
They've got us thinking something is wrong with our game because we love
hitting balls fast and hard.
I'm really sorry you don't see the
man behind the curtain in all of this
Woody, but he's still there,
blowin' smoke, counting his money.
Oct. 20, 2009
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2733 posts
Congrats to Woody and GSF!
It sounds like we missed a good tournament.
Oct. 20, 2009
armiho211
Men's 70
410 posts
the final game for the championship between GSF and MTC was played with the sun directly in the batters eyes. i dont understand why the TD or the umpires didnt accommodate both teams and move them to a different field, ( there were 2 fields that were perfect for most positions not to affected by the sun). i really would like to know from SSUSA why the field change was not made. both teams were not able to display the full hitting potential both teams possess . we spend a lot of money going to these tournaments, we need to be accommodated as much as possible, is it too much to ask ? PS: THE BALLS " SUCKED".
Oct. 20, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Marketers who were quantum leaped
by the Ultra 2 and lost huge ground
were staggered by their plight,
losing following, huge dollars
and brand to an upstart entrepreneur.
So what happened?
Withing 2 months,
the bats were banned and everything
began slowing down given the 'old boys"
and some new boys some breathing room
to try to figure out a response.
Testing, retesting, new testing
and safety committees and if we can't beat them in the bat business
we can take out their ankles
in the ball business.
We, the seniors, and me in particular
are frustrated, and fed up victims
of this economic phenomenon
and want someone to man up
and be accountable and stop
so we can have our game back.

Things are in the wind to help us
come all the way back I can't speak of
right now.
Help is on the way but there's nothing wrong and a lot right in wanting to express the feelings most of us have
about shitty balls over the last
couple of years to those most responsible.
We're being used, slam-boozled if you
will and mind-frucked to believe
it's US and our game
that's to blame.
That wanting to hit and play with good
bats and balls which marks us
as players since the sand lot
is now wrong and selfish
and inappropriate and even laughable.
Well the 60's taught me a lot about
power structures and money
and mind-bleeping and I can still
figure it out when someone's or small
powerful group is colluding to take away
something that truly belongs to me.
We will have very good,
lively bats/balls to hit and play with
because it's fun and we deserve it
because there's nothing but a powerful,
exploitative, self seeking few
are trying to take us and our game
away from ourselves.

Oct. 20, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
"Things are in the wind to help us
come all the way back I can't speak of
right now."

Please, stop trying to flatter your windbag self.

If you were a teacher I am assuming it wasn't English, as clarity, conciseness, grammar, and punctuality are always so lacking.

If you don't like the game, leave it. Yes this is America and you are free to express your opinions (ad nauseum in your case), but free enterprise is NOT a democracy. They can do as they wish, and you can vote by withholding your money. So please just do so, for the sake of this board.
Oct. 20, 2009
the wood
1096 posts
Joe, I'm not sure when I capitulated but I'll be in confession before long...
I liked parts of both scenarios (LVSSA and SSUSA). When 270' routine fly balls are blowing out of the yard or off the screen, I believe the game is impaired. On the flip side, when a HR hitter 'gets all of it' and the ball is caught 15' from the fence, there is something wrong (wind notwithstanding). This is one reason that USSSA uses more than one type/level of ball (I'm not a big fan of USSSA overall).
GSF can live with it when the games are 20-17 or when they're 34-32... but we don't like 9-6 or 45- 42 games. Don't hold me to these scores as they're meant conceptually.
Our leading HR hitter in AZ only had 4 but they were an important 4. In LV, our leader had 11 and some were close to 400'. One other guy hit one out in LV and he hadn't hit one in 2 years.
In my view, both events were near the extremes. We recognize that good teams need to be able to play under whatever conditions are present at the time. Still, we have our preferences.
If this is capitulating then I'm guilty as charged and will accept full responsibility for it.
BW
Oct. 20, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Thanks, Woody for a great response.
And help is on the way.
You'll be hearing about it shortly.
Great job in Phoenix.
I think it's easy to argue
that it's hard for the winner
GSF to not have a good time
having won a significant championship
in the Phoenix sun
but you'd have to admit
that more players had a better time
in Vegas with their balls, conditions and rules.
Wind aided balls which carry from
270 to the fence are a product
are an effect of nature and the wind and shouldn't in my estimation factor primarily
into the caliber of balls we find appropriate as it is a constant.
It's nice to have a lively ball
that won't compromise true home run
power when the wind is blowing in
isn't it.
Oct. 20, 2009
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
well let me say,ya can't please everyone all the time.maybe ss-usa should do what usssa does now,trump stote(or similar type ball) for cold weather(85 degrees and below) and MCT for hot weather.
also if miken hadn't found a way around bat testing proceedures(back with the ultra's when they first came out),then maybe we wouldn't be having all this problem's.also what i'm reading here is that none of ya's ever played ball before the hot bats came out.now i know that is a lie as all of us here are at least 50 yrs old.did you all complain about balls and bats back in the 70's,80's,don't think so,we played and had fun back then(also had some defense back then).nothing but cry babies about this"we need the hottest equipment around or its no fun",with no regard to player safety.even one person getting seriously injured or even killed is one to many.
Oct. 20, 2009
tattooball
622 posts
A .44/375 comp ball at 95 degrees is around 215 comp, this to is a product of nature.

As long as the game has been played true home run hitters battled the wind, most lost.
Oct. 20, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
There's absolutely NO REASON
why we can't have lively bats
and balls to play with.
It makes the game more fun for MORE players of all levels and skill.
But when market forces take effect
and our game becomes dictated
by the power battle for dollars
and cents we hear all the stuff
about what's dangerous and what's not,
who's gonna get sued,
and why we we're wrong to demand
what we rightfully want and need.
Even Jim Carey commented last weekend
it's all about money and
he was right.
Oct. 20, 2009
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
isn't jim(amongst a couple other's,myself included)that you ranted about trying to ruin the game with thier money hungry tactics.oh yeah i remember the rant you had about me when i suggested using the MCT ball(MUST BE SCHILLING FOR JIM AND KEVIN),about it not being up to YOUR specs b/c of feel and not good to throw and sound of it when hit.damn your worse than any politician in your wavering. COME ON MAN
Oct. 20, 2009
cliff21
Men's 60
6 posts
Woody, you couldn't have put it any better. Sunday in Phoenix was as challenging as it gets (could've done without the sun factor). Weren't many homers but dammit they were huge and with the soft ball and sun so was defense huge. Little guys playing their roles getting on base, the big boys driving in the big runs, good defense by both teams......the way it was supposed to be? Do ya think?

Congratulations to MTC on a great effort in the heat and all... great tournament.
Oct. 20, 2009
lectricman
8 posts
mr einstein had the pleasure of watching you play for the first time on this past saturday in phoenix. i'm player coach for baystate bombers heard glowing reports from players around the field of what a good player you are,and i must say all were accurate. my problem here is i saw you hit 2 bombs that went between 375 and 400 feet how far do you want to hit them i guess with a good ball they will go 450 to 500 a hr is a hr
Oct. 20, 2009
tattooball
622 posts
Cliff,
Great post, players doing their part as a team to win a world championship what a concept. Defense rarely ever spoken here, it's always about inept players wanting to hit home runs no matter what the temps and wind conditions are.

I will agree that a .44/375 ball in that kind of heat is not a great ball but if you read my comments back in 2003 I said the same thing. A .44/375 ball is to tempeture dependent, a higher cor lower comp ball is not depentdent on the tempeture.
Oct. 20, 2009
JohnBob
Men's 60
248 posts
I can not understand why the championship game was not moved to a open field. In our 60 Major semi-finals of loser bracket game TD let us move to another field due to the Sun. I know Saturday we played the 2 pm game on that field and it was very bad.
As for the Balls,last year each team was given a dozen with the option to buy more and a new one could be put in game at any time. I was at Mgr's meeting and did not hear this brought up. Wonder why the change? I know after a few inning some of the balls put in by Umps were beat up real bad. To me the 44/375 is a good ball if hit on sweet spot it will go 300+ feet but no cheap HR's. I know we hit 4 in 9 games all in am but the biggest thing I like was that in those 9 games at 3rd base I had about 30 balls hit to me that I had a chance to make a play on.
Oct. 20, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Kevin,
That higher cor lower compression ball
would push us toward that sock
52x275 ball
you said was never meant for seniors.
You know, the one that Terry agreed
to test a couple of times this year
with seniors to see if they'd like it.
The one that 90 per cent of the players
in Oakdale California said stunk.
Electricman thanks for the complements.
And yes, rumors of my demise
as a hitter are greatly exaggerated
I'm happy to report.
We, most seniors and there I go
speaking for the majority again
want a ball that hits consistently well.
We don't care who makes it
as long as we get to hit it and enjoy ourselves and not be sold
snake oil about our ailing and pathetic game and a "bill of goods"
by self interested reps
trying to sell us their stuff.
Oct. 22, 2009
jim16
Men's 65
173 posts
I don't want to hi jack this thread and was looking for somewhere to give my opinions on the 60 major plus tournament and this is certainly the place to do it. GSF won the tournament with DEFENSE. I was amazed at the level of defense I witnessed by all of the teams in the final games. Offense was neutralized by heat that was OFFICIALLY 104 degrees. The offensive strategy was substantually changed by the heat on the ball. GSF adjusted and won with what I feel was incredible defensive play. Because the ball wasnt going out, hitters were consistently attacking the middle as its the easiest hit in softball. Wood put Conway in to pitch and to plug the middle. The final 3 outs were all hit to Conway to end the game. GSF adjusted to the conditions and won because of recognizing limitations and enhancing their chances of winning. Many times I have been quoted as saying " managers cannot win games but they sure can lose games". In this case, quote me, "The manager won the game". This tournament proved to me that the Major Plus teams also have the best defensive teams. Defense played that sunday by 60 year olds was the best I have ever witnessed.

I have already been quoted previously in this thread and the quote was taken out of context. Our game, as well as almost all business, is about the money. SS-USA cannot run a quality program like they do if they cannot make a profit. I want them to make as big a profit as they can because it will reflect in the quality of the program. They MUST run every financial aspect of their program to the max, touch every base in order to continue to give us the best product they can put on the field. If we do not buy their product, something is wrong. We are buying their program and even in hard times it is expanding. They must be doing most things right.
Oct. 22, 2009
jim16
Men's 65
173 posts
Now a small Hi Jack in this thread, the ball. I will try my best to explain a bit about the balls mentioned previously in this thread. The balls used in Las Vegas and the balls used in Phoenix were both 44 375 and both are made by TRUMP. Why was their such a difference in the way the ball performed? I will try my best to explain. 44 COR is basically a measure of bounce and the 375 is a measure of hardness. After the manufacturing process is finished, both balls have the same bounce (Co efficient of restitution) and hardness (375 pounds of pressure to squeeze them by 1/4 of an inch). This where the likeness of the balls ends. The Las Vegas ball has a layer of insulation wrapped around it under the cover. The substance is like the substance used on the space shuttle to insulate it from external heat. The Las Vegas ball also has a winding around the polycore to keep out all moisture. Because of the thickness of the insulation and moisture barrier, the polycore obviously has to be smaller in diameter in order for the final product to be the same size. The polycore also has to have slightly different mixture in order for the final product to have identical bounce and hardness. The Phoenix ball has no insulation and no moisture barrier but still has the same bounce and hardness. Since the Las Vegas ball will not react to heat and moisture, it will stay cool in the center and outperform the Phoexix ball in any heated atmosphere. Phoenix was way hotter than Las Vegas and therefore there was a substantial difference in the way the ball flew. Here's another interesting fact. If the temperature was 40 degrees, the Vegas ball would stay warmer and softer and the Phoenix ball would be harder and fly off of composites better. Now lets talk cost. Obviously the ball with the insulation, moisture barrier and leather cover will cost more to produce than the synthetic non insulated and non moisture proof ball. However, they have the same bounce and same hardness as a final product when tested at the same temperature. When Trump puts 375 44 COR on a ball, you can be sure it IS 44 375. There are a couple of un named manufacturers who have cheated and confused some of you. In the past some of those balls were used in the Las Vegas SSA program. They were incorrectly labeled on purpose.
Interestingly enough, the Microcell Technology ball (used in Vegas) was sent to SS USA players and it was turned down because a few rather uninformed individuals didnt like how it felt soft to the touch. It feels soft to the touch because of the layer of insulation beneath the cover.
This surely isnt a total picture of the difference in the balls but I hope its enough info for most of you to understand why one ball outperformed the other for distance. Durability is another subject
Oct. 22, 2009
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
thanks jim on the explaination,kinda thought something was up with the MCT in cold weather,as it didn't seem any better than a regular ball in our fall and winter leagues around here (anything under 65 degrees).it still hit ok tho.
Oct. 23, 2009
the wood
1096 posts
Jim16:
I cannot take credit for the win as it was the players that made it happen. As a manager/co-manager, similar decisions have been many times in the past that didn't capture the anticipated results... the LVSSA comes to mind as some of those moments.
I believe that it comes down to execution, which is mostly a player function.
Also, the biggest factor at that time was the sun and how a pitcher could use it to his team's advantage.
Nonetheless, I do appreciate the kudos.
But I totally agree with you regarding the defense played in our division. It was there all weekend for us and for most of the teams that we played. This is an element that the game has missed in some time, for the most part. GSF has always strived to have solid defensive players with the expectation that they won't 'let in more runs than they can drive in'.
BW
Oct. 23, 2009
JohnBob
Men's 60
248 posts
Right on BW,I'm player/manager also and wether to walk a hitter intentionally because 1st base is open can be big in a close game,along with changing Pitchers. I agree that the ball that we hit last weekend was fine and infield defense was hugh. Sometimes with the senior bats and hot ball infielders don't have time to react to alot of balls drilled,plus the Pitcher is a lot safer PPR called 1 time in our 9 games.
Thanks for the diet-coke may see you in FL in Feb are you all going to TOC?
Oct. 23, 2009
The Pro
81 posts
Jim, just want to clarify your statement that the balls previously used in a LVSSA tournamnet were "incorrectly labled on purpose". Those were Decker Sharks and I am the one who ordered them. I want to make it perfectly clear that if those balls were as you have stated not accurately stamped it was not at the request of LVSSA or me. We ordered 44/375 and that's what we got from them. As a matter of fact the balls were actually ordered through a third party distrbutor. Glad to hear from you, That was a great explanation of the difference between the Micro Cell and the regular Trump.
Oct. 23, 2009
tattooball
622 posts
Pro,
I don't believe he meant that you had the ball mis-marked. A couple of companies purposly mis-marked balls when the change to.44/375 was made in order to get a leg up on the competiton. They got caught and some suspened from play until they manufactured new softballs that passed the test. Decker was banned from ISA years ago.
Oct. 23, 2009
curveball
Men's 65
408 posts
"Woodman" great job by you and the guys, well deserved win. Way to beat the elements and be the last team standing. Good to see you, catch you along the trail soon.................

Felt bad for my friend Charle Waible, (2nd baseman for Ruth), went down during 1st seeding game Friday with a heart attack, surgery Friday evening, buts seems to be doing very well. We never know. We all wish him a speedy recovery and a speedy return to the game.
Oct. 23, 2009
jim16
Men's 65
173 posts
The Pro, Kevin is exactly right. I didnt mean that LVSSA or YOU did anything wrong. Those balls were made and circulated long before LVSSA used them. We play "hit your own ball" in Texas and those balls were being used all over the state because teams wanted to win and didnt care if they were using balls that were mis stamped. My hat is actually off to LVSSA because when I go to their association, I know ahead of time that they will use the best balls they can get regardless of price. I very much enjoyed this years LVSSA event with the MCT balls.
Sorry I hijacked this thread. Its supposed to be about SS-USA and GSF
Oct. 24, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
First, I haven't seen such much snow
blown since the 60's in the Haight/Ashbury...we must have really hit a nerve.
First, Jim, you and I were watching the same game and Conway made one spectacular play and a bunch of much easier plays
as "the over come by heat" balls
and the desire to hit through the box
instead of flying out to outfielders
kept guys from their normal swings.
It was lack of offense that created
the result we saw Jim
and not the caliber of defense
suggesting that a slower game
is a better game which is poppycock
to us seniors.
I can't believe the way you guys
wanna spin this stuff.
Oh, actually I do but I can't really
get how you can expect us
not to get what's going on.
We want good balls and bats
and we don't care who controls
or throws their weight around the bat/ball industry as long as we get
to play our game.
Good bats and balls.
It's the way that the greatest number
of seniors experience
and will experience a good time,
fun, gratifying experience at senior tournaments.
Remember this.
Only a few teams feel good with winning their divisions.
The great majority of players
need to know that they had fun,
accomplished something, did well,
and this comes from how well they hit/played.
Good bats and balls insures the greater
majority of players have a good time
good enough to invest and want to come back and of this there is no doubt.

We're not buying our game is too dangerous or not competitive enough.
That's ignorant BS and shows the presence of those who want to re-engineer our game
to their ends for profit.
Jim Carey WAS right.
It's all about money and I know
what he meant.
Oct. 27, 2009
Webbie25
Men's 60
1995 posts
I just found this site. Great discussions. I just got back from Phoenix and played 50AAA. We had the sun in our eyes hitting in 2 games. One was 9-9 after 6 and then a few guys hit for a 16-13 8 inning score, but there were about 5 K's. The game after us was 4-3.The other game it affected the lefties the most. Then for the last 2 games the sun was in the eyes of the left and leftcenter fielders. At the request of Los Vatos Viejos and CJ&S they did move the championship game to another field. That is just part of the game, but I would ask that they consider the sun when scheduling fields for later games when there are fields available. They did run a great tournament. It was 90-92 degrees and the balls did soften, but still went out if you hit them. We (Desperados) only got our 3 dingers 3 times in the tournament.
One thing in the ball discussion that I did not see was the effect of altitude. We play a 5500 feet in Albuquerque. That's just too much fun on a cool night!!!!
Mark Weber-Desperados
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