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Discussion: pitcher safety thought!

Posted Discussion
Nov. 2, 2009
Gary Heifner
248 posts
pitcher safety thought!
Terry told me that the pitcher protection rule will be a major topic this winter and it has been enforced in so many different ways, I don't know what the rule is. I was in a Sport Authority store and saw small, soft fully collapsable orange cones that were about 5 inches high. What if you extended the the 6 foot box lines past the rubber forward about 3 feet and placed a cone on each corner. Any ball that passes between, over or hits a cone and is below the top of the pitchers cap is a dead ball out. It wouldn,t matter if he trys to defend himself or not. If the pitcher reaches above his head or outside the cones he is on his own. We have had some rockets hit at our pitchers who slapped at the ball in pure self defense. The umps declared it hit his glove 1st and even though the ball caused bodily injury, it was not an out. Some will say it takes a pitcher started double play away but how many hit at the pitcher with runners in scoring position and an easy double play is possible?? Just a thought.
Nov. 2, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4395 posts
Great rule, like shoot the cop then have him put the vest on or rear end a car and then install the air bags.
Nothing quite like foresightedness.
Well thought out rule.

Nov. 2, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
It's an ill conceived rule
that doesn't deter hitting the middle.
Most players know and agree
that letting hitters hit the ball out
with HRs as singles or walks
cues the unwritten rule
to leave the pitcher alone.
And if a team is in retaliation mode
no PPR is going to stop them.
Why not ask the majority of players
what the think?
Why is this NOT the way to go.
You must make rules that support
the majority of players and what they
expect, think and feel.
Then the seniors as a group
will be recognized and engaged.
No small group of invitees from Anywhere, USA is going to necessarily
come up with what will secure
most players loyalty and cooperation.
Teaching 101.
Go at the middle, the center
if you want to reach the most members.


Nov. 2, 2009
Tate22
Men's 55
263 posts
Gary:
I would hope that this is a major topic in Nashville, because not one of the versions enforced has "protected" a single pitcher. Simple question, how is the pitcher protectd by soft, fully collapsable 5" high orange cones? Seems like these devices do not add anything of substance to the PPR which purports to protect the pitcher with a pane of thin air and the threat of an out.

To me, this theory of pitcher protection is actually a veiled attempt to outlaw hits up the middle. Why mess around, though. If we are going to close a 3'x9' section of the field, why not close the entire middle? Put the those little orange cones on a line drawn through second base, parallel to the pitching rubber, about 30 feet apart. Draw lines from home plate connecting to the two cones placed on either side of 2nd. THEN, and only then, you will have truly safe zone in the middle for pitchers. Hitting the middle will be completely illegal. Pitchers will still be able to low, flat, outside pitches, but hitter will now have to pull or push everything away from the middle.

I apologize if this seems like a wise crack or a personal attack. I just want to point out that any version of the PPR comes across like an attempt to declare that the middle is closed. I want pitching to be as safe as possible, but I don't want a useless, non-protecting rule to be the alleged solution.

In real softball, the middle is always open, and only a fool intentionally hits at a guy with a glove. Hitters should not be shamed for hitting balls where they are pitched. Almost all balls hit anywhere near a pitcher are unintentional miss-hits.

Only protective equipment protects, it is readily available and currently legal. Best of all, pitchers can be safe AND we can keep the game intact.
JMHO
Don Newhard
Nov. 3, 2009
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2691 posts
Great post Don!
I thought I cut and past the best part:
"In real softball, the middle is always open, and only a fool intentionally hits at a guy with a glove.
Only protective equipment protects, it is readily available and currently legal. Best of all, pitchers can be safe AND we can keep the game intact."
Nov. 3, 2009
tinman
Men's 50
75 posts
WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING.I AM IN MY SECOND YEAR OF SSUSA AND I PITCH,HIT WITH POWER AND CAN GO MIDDLE WITH FORCE.I HAVE BEEN BUZZED MANY TIMES IN THE BOX AND THEY ALL SEEM TO BE IN AN EFFORT TO NOT HIT THE BALL OVER THE FENCE.I USUALLY MOVE OUT OF THE WAY IF I FEEL I CANT GET GET A GLOVE ON THE BALL UNTIL THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP GAME IN PHOENIX.I WAS HIT BY A LINE DRIVE 15 INCHES OFF THE GROUND BY A POWER HITTER IN THE FIRST INNING WITH 5 ON THREE,NO OUTS.I WAS TAKEN OUT AND WALK WITH A LIMP AND HAVE A OPEN SORE 10 DAYS LATER.I DONT WANT TO BE TARGET BECAUSE OF RULES AND I DONT WANT TO RETALIATE.
Nov. 3, 2009
ROOSTER10
Men's 60
91 posts
GUYS!
It has been said numerous times on this board that the PPR is a joke when the umpires or assoc. call things all different-If you want super balls and super bats if you are a pitcher then be ready to get hit sometime.The middle is open and if you think we are not going to use it then you are mistaken.We all agree on ONE THING we do not want to see our fellow seniors getting hurt by a batted ball-but as we all know the game is dangerous at times without hitting the pitcher.As we stated injuries happen when people collied etc. on the field.It is the monster of the game to try our best to win and sometimes injuries do occur.
What is the answer I do not know and I
believe regardless on how the home run
rule is the middle is part of playing softball.It was when we were young and it is as Seniors. MY 02!!
Nov. 3, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4395 posts
Back say when the Grey Ultra was around, Few ever got hit. There was NO concern for any rule to be made. That was the best bat ever produced and the balls were the best around. Back then, the only real limits were the 5 run limit, so many over, (what ever it was), and it was all good. Then the rules started to be played with, balls got worse, and limits were changed at will.
Rules changed mid season, but would not go back because it would admit a wrong was done.
Nothing like "Cutting off your nose to spite the face."
It won't be long before we read what's in store for the game within the real game of softball.
Nov. 3, 2009
mad dog
Men's 65
3948 posts
well guys,here we go again.PPR is a joke,there is no protection what so ever with it.i also think unlimited hrs is not the answer,it does nothing to protect the pitcher,either.if you really want to protect the pitcher,something has to be done with our equipment(bats and balls),and if you think otherwise your are not thinking at all.tate22 has put it right,protective equipment to wear is the only thing that will do it also,how many want it to be mandatory for the pitcher to wear it,(mask,shin guards and maybe even a chest protector),prolly not a lot.people are saying use the hot stuff and take the limits off,tell me how that is gonna help a pitcher when someone does hit middle,not a bit,in fact it will make it worse of an injury,ask tinman.
i think its time we put our ego's aside and look to make our game a little saner and safer,it still can be fun to play regardless of what the ego maniacs say.
Nov. 3, 2009
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2691 posts
Tinman, sorry for your injury. Were you wearing a mask, shin guards and heart protector? Dosen't sound like it. That should be a pitcher's first line of defence.
If a pitcher is hit as a result of a dumbed down bat and ball it would still hurt. This isn't the solution.

Pitchers must protect themselves. Once they do that then we can talk about changing the game.
Nov. 3, 2009
mad dog
Men's 65
3948 posts
bruce it might,but you won't get the serious injury you get from the harder ball.you hit the 52-275 last yr in fl and were still hitting it out,that ball will prevent the bad injury that can happen with the harder ball we use now.it will also let us keep the senior bats to use.
Nov. 3, 2009
butch17
Men's 55
415 posts
taits,

I believe they outlawed the grey ultra. Do you think they did that for safety or for some marketing strategy?

I also believe they outlawed the T4000 ball and the titatium bat both I believe for safety reasons, so if the balls or bats change would not be the first in history of softball.

I also do not believe the PPR works but neither do I believe its because of the home run rule. In my opinion there is as many pitchers hit with home runs left as there is with no home runs left.Talk about snake oil salesmen. They should just say they don't like rule and not try make it out as something else.
Nov. 3, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4395 posts
That they did about 6 months after it came out.
I did not say it was a legal bat now only that "back then" it was used with good balls. Better than what we have now & we used better ball as well.
Perhaps some safety reasons but ASA is the one who initiated it and most every other mess we have encountered since then regarding bats and balls.
Not sure about theT-4000 ball,( I think I still have one ) but the Ti was, however the U-2 (most all 1.20 senior bats) are a lot better than they all, ever were. I had 3 different Ti's and the Grey Combat, U-2, MM and others exceed them.
As long as money is primary concern the game will continue a decline even if only slight in different aspects of the game but it will, for one reason or another.
PPR is an after thought. Legalese that I think would take a beating in the court system.
I think you are more than right with the snake oil remark... & for more than just one issue.
Nov. 3, 2009
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2691 posts
Bob, (MD), I've heard the specs of the 52/275 and realize it isn't as "deadly" as a 44/375. Will you be willing to bet that if someone is hit in the temple by one it won't kill him, I wouldn't! If/When that happens what will be the next step... a Rag Ball?
Rumor is that next year the USGA will mandate the use of whiffle golf balls! ;)
Leave the ball alone and let the pitchers decide if they need to use protective equipment.
Nov. 3, 2009
Bob50
Men's 60
240 posts
I have pitched against some of the best hitters the last few years in 55 major plus. The current rule does not protect the pitcher but it does provide a penalty for hitting a ball hard directly at the pitcher. While the rule is intended to protect the pitcher, part of the requirement for the rule to be enforced is counterproductive to its intended purpose. I refer specifically to the requirement that the pitcher stay in his cage (pitchers box). If we want to protect the pitcher, why require that he stay closer to the hitter for the rule to be enforced? I believe if a pitcher is allowed to back up after delivering a pitch he will be safer, have more time to make a fielding play and therefore, given an additional split second, be able to better protect himself. Given the additional time and the possible chance to then play the ball, the chance of the rule needing to be enforced or the pitcher getting injured is reduced. I can state however that the power of some hitters, with the current bat/ball combinations, will mean that some balls will not be catchable no matter how fast a pitcher is able to "retreat." Therefore I would recommend that the rule be modified to state that as long as the pitcher stays within the width of the pitchers rubber and retreats straight back that the rule can still be enforced but only if the pitcher in the opinion of the umpire does not have time to make a play and is in a purely defensive position attempting to shield himself from injury when hit.
Bob Schulz
Nov. 3, 2009
Par
Men's 50
10 posts
Tinman
I played against you in the Phoenix game. I was disturbed to see my teammate hit you as I have pitched in younger days but not hardly any in Senior ball. I noticed after you pitched you stayed on the rubber and did not back up. Almost every other game I saw at Phoenix that weekend all the pitchers were backing up away from the rubber. I just wonder if a little more reaction time(knowing it wouldn't have been much) would at least given you enough time to get out of the way or perhaps put a glove on the hit??? Bottom line, I do not condone hitting up the middle but know it is going to happen. The PPR rule does absolutely nothing to protect pitcers, in fact it makes it worse. I know when I came up in Phoenix with nobody on base (regardless of HR quota being met or not), I was not going to hit a solo & tried to go opposite field. Even trying to do this there were still a couple of hard grounders I hit up the middle but were just out of reach of the opposing pitcher. Your team is a class team & good luck next year.
Nov. 3, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Par, Tinman, Bruce,
Right on.
I watched the Mavs play Gekkle
in Vegas with great balls,
THE BEST hitters in senior ball
and both pitchers pitching almost
exclusively from the front of the rubber
and not one ball went through the middle.
I watched the whole game with Stoneman.
Most players will attest that when
you let the big guys take or try to take
it out, the middle is not a preferred
target like it is when HR's are more dear.
This is not only common sense
but what great majority
of the players playing
I've met and talked with
think or believe.
Nov. 3, 2009
tinman
Men's 50
75 posts
I WOULD LIKE TO ADD A FEW THINGS.I LIKE THE BATS AND BALL WE USE IN PHOENIX.I AGREE THE MIDDLE IS PART OF THE FIELD AND I SHOULD BE READY TO PROTECT MYSELF.I WILL PROTECT MYSELF AS I FEEL NEEDED.I GOT EXCITED WHEN I TURNED 50 BECAUSE OF THE EQUIPMENT AND HOMERUN/SINGLE RULE.THE RULE WAS CHANGED AND I AM NOT AS EXCITED SPEAKING AS A PITCHER AND HITTER.
Nov. 3, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Par, Tinman, Bruce,
Right on.
I watched the Mavs play Gekkle
in Vegas with great balls,
THE BEST hitters in senior ball
and both pitchers pitching almost
exclusively from the front of the rubber
and not one ball went through the middle.
I watched the whole game with Stoneman.
Most players will attest that when
you let the big guys take or try to take
it out, the middle is not a preferred
target like it is when HR's are more dear.
This is not only common sense
but what great majority
of the players playing
I've met and talked with
think or believe.
Nov. 3, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
You know why I know so much about senior softball?
One, because I'm a player
and Two, and here's the big one
Terry and Dave,
I ASK them and then
listen to what they say.
I don't need to call a meeting
to and have to accept what a couple of attendees have to say.
I've been asking players all year long.
You guys should already know
what worked and what didn't and what
we want to see next year.

Nov. 4, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
I honestly cannot see why anyone should have a problem with the biggest and the best being allowed to hit home runs. What I don't get is why they need special bats to do that with. If they truly are what I am reading here, USSSA bats aren't good enough?
Nov. 4, 2009
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2691 posts
Dirty, I don't know if you honestly don't understand why we use senior bats or if you just like to stir things up.
I have used a Freak Plus and Worth Mayhem many times in senior softball but the main reason we use senior bats is so the cheaters don't gain an advantage when they use doctored bats. At present there is no reason to use a shaved bat when the senior bats perform as well if not better than a doctored bat. If the senior associations go to utrip or asa bat rules this will just open the door to the use of doctored bats. Asa already has a problem with doctored bats.
You may argue that the cheaters need to be caught and exposed, probably suspended or banned. The problem is catching them. I'm sure many will slip through and won't be detected.
So, what's the solution? Maybe producing a bat that can't be shaved (per Trumpball)? That means everyone will have to buy new bats.
How about TD's supplying bats for their tournaments? That's been discussed, too much $$.
Leave it like it is.
Nov. 4, 2009
paul alvarez
1 posts
Hi guy's I'm new I'm from austin,tx.50 over pitcher very good topic as a pitcher I don't want to change any rules love the game the way it is,funny to say this since i am the pitcher of my team.I think I found the solution to all this PPR what I notice about the batter's in senior league is they are smart selective the reason for this because how much freedom they have on the plate,stay with me now if you take away the black plate see a pitcher can only do so much the batter knows that he has to hit the plate no matter what that's where the select pitch comes in,take away the plate and go back to the umpire calling the strike zone this will eliminate alot of balls going down the middle,as a pitcher if you have a great excellent pitcher he knows how to pitch to a batter from getting hit down the middle,it's that simple guy's any way's it's nice talking to ya'll guy's bye for now .
Nov. 4, 2009
Swampy
24 posts
Beat me to it Bruce---I quit playing softball for almost ten years and didn't know anything about senior softball until last year. I started playing both senior and with a couple of younger teams. I also didn't know anything about the senior bats or rolling/shaving. I was amazed at the number of younger guys that talked about 'doctoring' their bats. I believe if we allow everyone to use the same type of good/hot bat in the senior division, the chances of guys playing around the rules will be minimal, if non-existant. I guess the selection of what type of ball to use becomes the determining factor if everyone can be satisfied with the bat regulations, and may take one aspect of complaining off the board.
Nov. 4, 2009
JohnBob
Men's 60
248 posts
Tate22 great post,I agree 110% any way you could go to Nashville next month?
Bob50,as most know I been on here a number of times saying the same thing. Most pitch and back out of box and the back of box gets marked out after a few innings and so on. I talked to Terry and Dave by phone and email all Summer trying to get the fact that Pitcher has to remain in box for DBO to be called removed but was told that rule will be looked at in Dec. I hope the rule is removed but if not surely this will be changed.
Again congrats to the Travelodge team for their big win in AZ
Nov. 4, 2009
mad dog
Men's 65
3948 posts
bruce to answer both of your thoughts,yes a temple shot might kill a person,but it will have to be a straight on shot to the temple,as with the harder ball its not need to be straight on for substantial damage to be done or a person to be killed.read the ball facts post that i put up by stoney.
on the cheaters part,the 52-275 ball won't do away with them,but this ball will not be affected like the harder one is.a cheater bat will not hit the 52-275 any harder than a normal bat(see my other thread on ball facts by stoney).
paul,maybe taking the mat away might help a pitcher,maybe,but i'll tell you now there will be more arguements on pitched balls than ever was with the mat.most umps i've seen when i've pitch(which i do for the kids,i don't pitch so much for senior)is they don't call corners so much,they like the ball dead center or real close to it,they also just look to where the ball lands behind the plate,could careless if you can curve the ball across the plate,just where it lands.its bad enough they miss it hitting the mat at times.personally i wouldn't mind seeing the mat enlarged a bit,and height limits taken off on how high you can go.
Nov. 4, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Bruce, leaving it like it is is fine with me, as lone as how it is doesn't include mandatory gear and screens. It is when how is it changes the fundamental way the game is played that it becomes a problem.

Just curious, can't senior bats be altered? Do they need to be? Certainly not. But what makes anyone think that those looking for an illegal edge won't alter those too? Is there any proof of that?

Doctored bats have existed for a loooong time. Every play Steeles back in the day and notice how long their bats were? 34"? I don't think so, and I am sure they weren't the only big-time team back then doing that. It has always been done.

Sounds to me like the thinking is let's give everyone ridiculous bats so the cheaters don't have an advantage and then everyone will be capable of killing an infielder.

Heck, let's give everyone guns so it isn't just the criminals that have them. Then everyone would be capable of shooting innocent bystanders. :(
Nov. 4, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
We need some common sense,
good leadership
and representation on these and other issues relating to our game
or nothing will be done and we'll end up
somewhere else
pushed around by are own ignorance
and market forces to be and accept
less than what we want, need and deserve for senior softball.
We either need to stand up, be heard and counted or have associations like SSUSA value us, find us and poll us
to keep pundits and a self interested
and powerful few from running and possibly ruining our game.

Some leaders look to the group
for direction.
Some groups look for leaders
for direction.
When no one steps up to the plate
who's running the ship?????????
And people who are pushing us
in some direction or any direction
which is not immoral or against any laws
gain much greater traction
and influence over what we do
by the absence of any organization or control.
Let's wake up and smell the coffee
before somehow it changes to tea.
Nov. 4, 2009
v55lrv
23 posts
I was reading some of the replies as I also pitch and have been hit a few times. They are saying that the pitcher should suit up and not complain, but that would just encourge some to come up the middle more as they would say oh they have all that equipment and it wont hurt..All I can say I was a cather in college and It Still Does Hurt And If The Player is a Hitter He Does Not Have To Use The Middle.
Nov. 4, 2009
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
paul alvarez: I play senior league on Sunday night on Krieg 3...come on down and introduce yourself.we have a good time and a great bunch of guys..........I know you and I will probaly catch hell from this, but after thinking about your comments.......I like the ideal of removing the mats.bring the umpire back into the games, if there is no mat..will the batter be more likely to hit inside/outside ?knowing if it hits the plate its a strike, would that not make batters go with the pitch ?(MAYBE).....I am going to ask all of the senior pitchers on Sunday what they think about removing the mat.maybe I have been in the heat all day.but I like it........einstein and Dirty...#19-what cha think ?
Nov. 4, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Absolutely get rid of the mat. The game was NEVER intended to be played with a horizontal strike zone that is the same size for a guy 5'6" as it is for a guy 6'8". NEVER.

So what if it brings the ump back into the game? I guarantee you the average ump makes faaaar less mistakes during the course of the game than the average team does, so if you lose who is really to blame?

So many guys on here want to change the game from what it was when you probably started playing in the 60s or 70s. Were you that miserable with the game back then that you want all of these changes (mats, PPRs, courtesy runners, screens, suits of armor for the pitchers, team classifications, home run limits) now?
Nov. 4, 2009
Gary Heifner
248 posts
To answer a question above, the two cones do not protect the pitcher in any physical way. It would tell all batters that if they go there it is an out and could kill a potential rally. It would end individual umpires interpretation of the rule and standardize or make the call automatic.
Nov. 4, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
If safety is the key issue
as some portend and others pretend
then screens is the way to go
and keep overall hitting alive and well.
Dumbing down the ball
does punish us all
and never a good way to go.



Nov. 5, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Joe, please share your workout routine with the board. That will help all of us to increase bat speed and get the ball exit speed you are craving.

And it would be soooo much more rewarding than just getting extra power from someone else's technology.
Nov. 5, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4395 posts
Dirty;
So are you saying you don't use the more "extra power technology" in products you use? Say like an analog cell phone or TV over a digital one, I-pod vs 8 tracks, as examples?
Give that one up the majority of people buy the latest up to date item within the same product category.
You did say you had a U-2, so what's up with that?
Why not the wood bat?
We enjoy what we are allowed to use and can afford to get or are given by sponsors as some surely are.
Please give this a rest, maybe even bury it.
Nov. 5, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Honestly, I am not a "gadget" guy. No cellphone at all. Analog TV, and no cable. No i-pod or other music gadget. So maybe I am the wrong one to ask that to.

Yes I use a U-2, but if they were banned I wouldn't care at all. I play for the competition, so if we are all using the same rules (bats and balls) I couldn't care less how lively they are.

If I just want to hit the ball hard, I will go take BP. I play games to win.

By the way, if hitting the ball hard is all he craves then what workouts does he do to help with that?
Nov. 5, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4395 posts
Ok, but the game tech has gone forward and backward, resulting in most of the problems equip wise, mostly regarding the balls.
I too like the competition, try to win, play the game & have fun all at the same time.... a common ground with Para 2.
As for 3, I firmly believe in hitting hard, I am not good at "dinking" as I call it, but use good balls in BP most of the time... Only time I don't is when I go with other guys that have some restricted one in the bucket. Play to win, but not at any cost.
#4 Does it really matter if he works out with weights, jogs, or swims laps? That is his way of dealing with his game. He hits well, trust me, but He also like good equip like I do, that included bats balls and even rules.
Over all, a lot in common game wise.
I've played against and been sociable with Joe for over 12 years. He is vocal about issues, so am I, we just have different ways to express it, but both of us...... Love the game which is the heart of the matter.
Come play Gary,
Nov. 5, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
And NASCAR now has the Car of Tomorrow. Softball would not be the only sport where technology took a step backward for the good of the game. Heck, there have been banned golf balls as well. It is not as uncommon as you might think.

I like to hit the ball hard too, but feel better knowing the ball traveled far or fast because of my hard work and not someone else's technology. If I can dunk because I used a trampoline, should that thrill me?

Yes, it does matter that he doesn't seem to put as much effort into it as many, and wants technology to do a lot of the work for him. Is he a good player? I hear he is. Would he be better if he worked at it instead of just whining about ball companies? I think so.

taits, I do play. Play plenty. Don't think just because I have not traveled to play in a lot of 5-team bracket tournaments against the same teams over and over that I don't play.
Nov. 5, 2009
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2691 posts
Were golf balls banned for other reasons that being smaller that the required minimum specs?
NASCAR has the COT but how many fans and participants aren't happy with it??
Nov. 6, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Bruce, I believe the balls were banned because they just flew too far. And yes I understand there are people not happy with the COT, but my point was that softball would certainly not be the only sport where someone with a little commons sense saw that technology had gone too far.

And as far as I know no one has quit NASCAR because of the car change, unlike the guys who whine on here that they might not play if they cannot have their rocket launchers and superballs.
Nov. 6, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4395 posts
Dirty,
You have the habit of going way off the subject.
Back to the game... Not Nascar, golf or wrestling.
The whole Game has become "dumbed" down as it's been called.
The high, two tiered entry fee rate, Rule adjustments, all the different Limits the standard ball used to be 47\525 or better, are now 40 or 44 cor \ 375 or 400 comp. And it seems a few want an even worse ball.
Definitely not what it was.
Shorter games equals less money spent for umps. Time was they were paid per game no matter how long it was. Now its pretty close to an hours game, baring extra innings. But at roughly 25 a pop chances are, it is more than the day job paid for standing there and calling balls and strikes for the most part. Few get out from behind the plate to go see and make the calls, but some do that well and earn their pay.
Perhaps its come to this not only for the money but they have lost their edge, game spirit, for some reason. Making the results counterproductive for enjoyment and team that want to go.
On the other hand the job is unforgiving, rarely thanked for the time, energy and trouble it takes for putting them on. So both sides are caught in a catch 22. Assn's won't give in, admit or correct wrongs, teams complain may or may not show up, and sometimes with only a few others to play.
Gary, imo league play is not the same as tourney play, and not all tourney is equal either. There are both ends of the "ratings" spectrum you might say within those (tournaments or leagues) as well.
Far too many variables (consistencies) with them to say their the same. But they are games, none the less.
Could be too, all these changes (all over) are because of a loss of real interest in actually playing, & would rather control how it's played out.
Nov. 6, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
taits, sorry you are challenged with applicable analogies.

"Shorter games equals less money spent for umps." Huh? What, are your umps paid by the hour? Where I play they are still paid by the game, same amount no matter how long the game takes.

I still don't see why so many want to change the game so much. I ask again, were all you guys that unhappy in the 60s and 70s without all these silly rules that you demand such radical changes?

Nov. 6, 2009
E4/E6
Men's 60
854 posts
Maybe SSUSA should poll only players who Pitch and ask them how they feel about any PPR or how pitching can be made safer. Or do the even want a rule.
Some I have talked to think it takes away from their game, some think it helps them but takes away from the game as we KNEW it.
Nov. 6, 2009
mad dog
Men's 65
3948 posts
e4/e6,mine would be no PPR and go to the 52-275 ball for pitcher safety.
ok as for nascar,they have been constantly adopting new safety features thru out the yrs,so guys saying it doesn't apply,,,,mmmm don't understand your thinking.all sports thru out the yrs look to make thier sports safer,and its a never ending theme for them.
Nov. 6, 2009
E4/E6
Men's 60
854 posts
Dog, I'm a dead pull hitter with pop, when I accidently drive the middle my heart stops for a moment, until I know the ball is past the pitcher. I'm not sure a "punkin" ball is the answer. Remember the years of playing Punkin Ball? By the 3rd inning the ball wouldnt make the grass with a full swing. Maybe manditory masks and chest gear? At least until we decide on a safer soultion.

Nov. 6, 2009
E4/E6
Men's 60
854 posts
On the other side of the coin I am also a pureist, I dont like seeing our game changed to the point we wont recognize it in 5 years.
I like the idea of Wooden bat tournaments. Maybe a fill in for our Techno Tournaments to fill our needs.
Nov. 6, 2009
mad dog
Men's 65
3948 posts
e4/e6,i'm just the oppo of you,i'm a back up the middle hitter and always have been,now i can pull the ball with pop also,but it is more naturally for me to be in the middle someplace.i don't get a lot of pitchers thank goodness and i'm like you when i play my senior league b/c of being in the middle a lot.our league is a real wide area of talent and ages so it scares me when i do.i do try and pull to stay away,but it is hard when the ball is throw in the middle to slightly outside.i have been trying to go oppo when that happens.

now when i play with the kids i just hit,as i'm usaully our pitcher(senior i play SS or 2b).i wouldn't mind going back to metal bats and a good ball personally,lets bring the game back to what it was,we don't need rocket launchers and super balls to have fun.
also the 52-275 will not degrade during play,it is made to handle all temps and such,unlike other balls.i have used it and have no prol with it being used for us.
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