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Discussion: Indy Tournament

Posted Discussion
May 2, 2005
stig 52
Men's 50
46 posts
Indy Tournament
Just a word on the Indy Tournament this past weekend. Although the tournament was well run I object to the disregard for senior rules. This is a SSUSA sanctioned tournament that used every rule they could to speed the game up or increase profits. It starts with the $2.00 admission at the gate then you find out you have only one umpire and no scorekeeper. The count we used was 1-1 with no extra foul. The umpires in SSUSA are supposed to call illegal for a pitch too high or too flat. These umpires refused to do that. Next we find out the pitchers rubber is 53 ft. with no box. Next we find out the bases are 70' for all ages. Then we learn there is only a fifty min. time limit to finish the inning and play one more. And finally we found out about the flip flop rule to keep the visiting team that is winning from batting the last inning if they are ahead. Each of these items are not much by themselves but when you put all of them together it looks a little like we are getting the shaft. Maybe next year we can add in a flip to see who wins and don't even bother to show up. I thought the reason we have a rule book was make the game the same all across the country. This should not be a sanction SSUSA tournament if it is going to be run in this manner.
May 2, 2005
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2664 posts
I haven't heard of "the flip flop rule to keep the visiting team that is winning from batting the last inning if they are ahead".
I would like to see all Senior Summit associations require that their sanctioned tournaments follow minimum standards reguarding score keepers, scoreboards, time limits, ball/strike count, pitching arc, home run rules, etc.
When we run into tounaments we need to remember them the following year.
May 2, 2005
TexasTransplant
Men's 70
420 posts
Bruce,

With the flip-flop rule, if the visitors are ahead by a substantial margin (I've usually seen it set at 10-12 runs), the home team simply bats two times in a row in the next to last and last inning. Should they manage to make up the margin, the visitors get to bat again. In effect,
it reverses the home field advantage, but it only comes into play in blow-out situations.

I've not seen it used much in Senior tournaments, but it could prevent some embarassing situations when teams of different classifications are matched up, as frequently happens in qualifiers.
May 2, 2005
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
612 posts
Unfortunately not everyone feels about senior rules like we do. Just like we deal with league rules that may or may not have a basis with the actual association; we had tournament rules that were intended to even up play bt also to keep the park happy. Since the 2005 SSWC rulebook is not out yet, I am not going by it, but SSWC has a flip-flop rule although we used it a little differently. Non-seniors do not understand why we do not have run rules, although we do encounter them with some associations and some levels of play. I personally have never liked a 1-1 count, but this was a concession. I did make up the tournament rules with some requests from the park. I will be glad to discuss anything with anybody as long as you realize that I did not have total control of certain aspects such as some added rules and brackets. I was very pleased that with no major NSA tournamentst that we were able to get three of the top umpires in the state. If you had them, you know who I am talking about. I will have more information hopefully tomorrow on results. Thanks to all that were here; I thought in general things went very well, and most play was fairly even.
May 2, 2005
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
612 posts
Stig, I did have one other thing that I forgot on illegal pitches. I briefed all of the umpires and had in the rules, "SSWC umpires signal and call illegal. NSA umpires usually do not." Our few experienced ASA umpires did call it. I do both ASA and NSA and believe that you really even want an NSA umpire making that call when they are not used to it. I asked them to be courteous when explaining this. If they were not, I would like to talk with you.
May 2, 2005
stig 52
Men's 50
46 posts
Nancy, I know you try and make a fair tournament but I know Tim runs the field like a business and get as many games as possible when he can use the fields. I just don't like the rule changes but on the other hand Tim runs a good organized tournament with excellent field conditions even in bad weather and used good balls 44 core 525 compression. I don't like one umpire but these were excellent umpires and consistent in their calls. Maybe in the future we can get Tim to give a little on some things like the 70' bases and 1-1 count with no extra foul. Also the flip flop rule was intended for blow out games not one or two run games like we used this weekend. I am not complaining as much as I am pointing out these differences. A lot of our tournaments are based on being close to home rather than how they are played.
May 2, 2005
RonD22
Men's 50
26 posts
Stig ...You are correct the flip-flop rule is meant for only when the run rule limit is exceeded. The inning the run rule is in effect and the home team is losing, the home team will remain at bat and become the visiting team. If they do not score enogh runs to reduce the run rule the game is over. If they do score enough then the new Home team will bat.
May 2, 2005
LA
46 posts
These early bird tournaments that we have here up NORTH are usually the first time that organized teams are together. We purposely took "visitors" each time so that we could get more swings and for me, as coach, to be able to see more hitters. The one game, I had promised that everyone was going to hit and then they put in the "flip-flop" and left me with an apology for those players. I wish that more tourn. directors would take into the consideration of money and time spent to go to these tournaments. Everytime I turn around, we seem to be getting less for our money. Whether it be on the games or just the money we have to spend for the multitude of bats that we have to carry for each sanctioning. Incidentally in Indianapolis, the U II's were allowed. One field was turf. In our games and the others that I had observed, I did not seen any injuries relating to the bat or balls. If any balls were hit up the middle, I saw that many times the hitter apologized to the pitcher. Senior ball players are a class act. It was nice to again see the excitement of home runs. Even though in our divisions, they were only doubles, it brought life and excitement back to the game. I was one of many that feel that you should never be penalized for hitting a HR. I feel that at the AA and AAA divisions, HR's should be allowed and counted as doubles after so many and in the AA, allow one HR and the rest could be singles with advancing the runner only one base. We must wonder if rules are starting to get antiquated for the new younger 50's that are coming up. Anyway, good INDY tourn. but next year for the money, please give us better weather. Dayton Legends.
May 2, 2005
Gelpas
Men's 55
25 posts
Just a few comments: First of all What the heck gives with the $2.00 per day admission? Heck what is going to come next ? ....Parking FEES? I could add few other complaints but what I really wanted to say is thanks ....I had a great time. I had the opportunity to meet and watch some damn good ball players and bask in the warmth of the sunny Indy weather (ok one of two ain't bad). Seriously though, thanks for letting me share in this kid's game we call softball. Hope to run into you all in some other tourny.

Gelpas
Geezer's
May 2, 2005
Gary Heifner
248 posts
I played in the 60 AAA division and had a good time over all. I did ask the director about the extended pitching box and he claimed he never heard of that rule. I asked an ump why we didn't have the extended box and he said he was told "before" the tourney not to allow it. What's the truth??? My complaints center around playing at 9:00 in the morning 2 more during the day and 8:40 at night. Most tourneys clump your team's games in the morning or afternoon hours which helps stop 4 trips back and forth to the motel and you can actually eat a good meal.
Also, the older guys always play on fields 4-5-6. The wind always blows in on these fields. How about giving the older guys fields 1-2-3 which are also next to the BATHROOMS. There isn't even a porta potty way out on 5 and 6. Now don't give any grief on potties until your up in your 60s and gotta go!!!
May 2, 2005
JimS
Men's 60
11 posts
The Chicago Classics Silver had a good time in Indy. Its our first tournament of the season and its always nice to see our friends from other teams around the midwest. We did have one disappointment and that was when we came to the park to play our 12:40PM game on Sunday the team we were supposed to play didn't show. Now I can understand that after a four game twelve hour Saturday with sore bodies you don't feel like playing a 'meaningless' game on Sunday but I think you should try to let the team you're supposed to play know so they don't waste their time. By 12:40PM most of us could have been home. If you know you're going to forfeit a game make an effort to let the other team know.
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