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Discussion: Another bat/ball thread

Posted Discussion
Dec. 3, 2009
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2667 posts
Another bat/ball thread
Ok, with all the talk about "dangerous" bat and ball combinations, what are some of your local league/associations rules about bats and balls?
Our league uses ASA bats and 44/375 balls. Our National league recently voted to allow senior bats but we had to buy additional insurance from SSUSA.
I just read that the SSAA (Southern Softball Associational of America, ssaasoftball.com) allows the following:
THE FOLLOWING CHANGES HAVE BEEN ESTABLISHED FOR 2005 - 2009
1. MENíS CLASS C, D, E, REC. E, MASTERS, WOMENíS , CO-ED, CHURCH, INDUSTRIAL, ARMED FORCES, BLACK AMERICAN, NATIVE AMERICAN
A. SOFTBALL:
1. Maximum of Cor. 47 with SSAA Stamp
2. Maximum compression of 525 lbs.
B. BATS NOT ALLOWED FOR ANY SSAA SANCTIONED EVENT
1. Miken Balanced
2. Miken Maxload
3. Miken Ultra II
4. LADY VIRUS VIRSP 3 by Combat
4. Bats made of titanium or titanium alloys are illegal
2. MENíS CLASS A & B
A. SOFTBALL
1. Maximum of Cor. 44 with SSAA Stamp
2. Maximum compression of 375 lbs.


HOW ABOUT THAT FOR GOOD BATS AND BALLS!!!
Dec. 3, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Bruce,
In the city we play ASA rules.
ASA bats and 44x375 balls.
The cheaper, newer
44x375 balls tend to suck
a lot so lots of times
you can't get the ball
out of the infield.
When we bring a good 44x375 ball
and we play at night when it's 55 degrees or so, the balls will go.
In our local NCSSA league
we use lively 44x375 balls
and senior bats and as I've said
numerous times, if a TD goes cheap
on the ball or uses one that's
really crappy he will lose
his NCSSA sanction
and won't get another tournament.
Because NCSSA has maintained itself
as a community there's a lot of desire
to do what we all want and expect
so we can have a good time.
And again, thanks to president,
Gary Tryhorn, Noel Lanctot, Bob Strand,
and some of the other NCSSA stalwarts,
they are PLAYERS...
THEIR interests are OUR interests
and they are open and receptive to us
as we move together better down the road
of Senior ball.
Dec. 3, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
The standard we subscribe to in NCSSA
is one based on what the older versions
of the 44x375 yielded.
Apparently they were made just a short time ago hotter than their literal specs or 'better' than they had to be.
Regardless, that's the ball we like to hit that's the most fun and the one,
performance speaking we gravitate toward.
It's the standard and not the spec
we're looking for.
Look how hot Trump's Microcell ball is
and it's only rated 44x375 and again
in LVSSA where it was used this year
a good time was had by all.
Lively balls and good bats, forever
and free defensive subbing is better
than batting everyone if
"You play...to win...the game."
Dec. 3, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
Very liberal considering the balls and the few bats not allowed. With so many bats are better then the LV its great for you guys.
The league here is ASA but they don't know a ASA bat from most others. RF balls as well. Exception is a thurs "league" where good balls are used like the SSAA 47's I supply them, and any 1.20 bat.
Been wondering where the balls I've sold where used for back there, now I know. They were SSAA, ISA & NSA 47\525's.
Happy Holidays.
Dec. 3, 2009
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2667 posts
Maybe we should adopt the SSAA approved bat and ball list!!
At the park where we play league the young guys use ASA bats and Evil Microcell balls!
I wonder if they will change the arc there to 6-10 feet?
Dec. 3, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
Don't be surprised. Meat ball express.
Seems no one has a mind of their own on some issues. Playing follow the deaf, dumb & blind one game.
If you're going to Nashville, keep an open ear\ mind.
Dec. 3, 2009
DoubleL10
Men's 65
833 posts
In our Oklahoma City "senior" league (age 43 and up), we use ASA bats and Worth Classic M balls. The ball doesn't go anywhere unless you kill it. We use NO "senior" bats. Scores are generally in the low-to mid-teens; VERY few HRs. I work on line drives and opposite field.
Dec. 3, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3938 posts
well larry thats gotta suck,ASA bats ok,but the classic M ball is terrible,maybe ok from oct to april,but thats it.
down here in tyler its ASA bat and ball.i personally like this combo,as we supply our own ball,so i have been using the MCT ball which works out great for the summer months.during the colder ones we use a dudley heat/thunder.
Dec. 3, 2009
birdie
Men's 60
683 posts
Hello, We play in a senior day league in Northern Va, we used a trump ball to begin the year with then switched to a thunder advance. It is my understanding that the advance is no longer being made. The league uses ASA bats and is looking for a new ball to buy. The advanced seemed to be a very good ball. Is there a ball out tere that comes close to the advance. Thanks Harry
Dec. 3, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
6 to 10 feet pitching arc?
Why would they do that?
I know a lot of pitchers who
will be looking for other positions to play without the 12 to 15 foot pitch
in their arsenal.
Too many home runs
from hitting higher balls?
Nawwwwwww.
Easier to hit with less time wasted
per batter at the plate?
Maybe.
Tait suggested they can back door in
the crappy balls because everyone will be hitting the ball down & hard
at all the infielders?
Hmmmmmm.
Any ideas why they would consider
lowering the arc?

Dec. 3, 2009
Omar Khayyam
1000 posts
Biggest reason for low arc? Feeding the ego of hitters who live only to crush the ball and want it coming in on a silver platter.

Best pitching year of my life was the year of the unlimited arc. At that time, you had to plant it in about a 9 inch area behind the plate or it would be a ball. I was throwing 18, 20, even 25 feet. Scores were typically 4 to 3, 5 to 4, seldom more than 7 runs. Kept your head in the game all the time, made strategy, base running, and defense very important. Sluggers (true sluggers not composite bat-aided) could still put one out since the ball was hot (blue dots I think), although bats were mostly aluminum. Rule was changed and arc lowered to present limit after one year because of whining from ego-damaged hitters, particularly A-level players (there was no senior ball then).
Dec. 3, 2009
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2667 posts
I disagree. I find it much harder to hit the pitches of a good utrip pitcher than those of one throwing 6-12. With the flatter pitches the pitcher can vary the speed of his pitches much more that an ASA pitcher, throwing off the timming of the batter.
Omar, when we played unlimited, the ball was the SB12. You're right, a pitcher would make or break the team. Ours could really throw it high and usually struck out atleast 3 batters a game.
Dec. 3, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Bruce I'm with you.
I know some guys like Steve Wilson on East Bay or Denny Jones from Kelly's
who will crush anything they swing at
above their waist
to the top of their heads.
Most long ball guys like the higher ball
and singles/doubles guys like the lower pitch.
Joe Lecak and I both like to lift lower pitches but that's not usual.
Have you heard if SSUSA is going to it,
Bruce?
Dec. 3, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3938 posts
don't understand why a lo pitch(usssa) is harder to hit than a 12' pitch.i find that i just wait till the dancing clown on the mound finally releases the ball and short stroke it,my old BB swing.i have always been able to wait as long as possible to swing so the flater, even the mo better for me.
also with the 6-12' pitch you can be changing the batter's eye's up and down,and you can change speed some,just like usssa.good curveballs,good knuckle balls,good screwballs,good back spin,you can make an ASA pitch move just as much as an usssa.

so far everything isee is from batters complaining that the pitcher is not throwing them a 6-7'pitch with them using a senior bat and a very lively ball so they can just load up and blast away.
Dec. 4, 2009
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2667 posts
No Joe, I haven't heard anything about SSUSA changing the arc rule.
Bob, it's not a question of not being able to hit a low pitch, it's that it's harder to time a fast pitch. Once you have that pitch timmed a good pitcher comes back with a floater. We'll get Curt to pitch to you at CST! :)
Dec. 4, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
I just love guys who definitively state the height of pitches, as if they have any way of knowing for sure.

What is wrong with scores in the low to mid-teens? I know this is slow-pitch, but we don't need basketball scores.

What exactly is the point of lower the upper arc limit? Seriously, and anyone in a position of power to make that change stated the reason. Everything said and done should have a reason.
Dec. 4, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
That's what I'd like to know Gary, too.
Just why would anyone consider
lowering it.
It must be for some reason or cluster
of reasons.
As a pitcher for me, lower is better
because I have some junk in the trunk
and rely on off speed balls with hair on them at times that can be difficult to time well.
It's really curious, though, isn't it.
We may have to become forensic
and go backwards in our thinking and figure it out after the fact.
Of all the things we've been talking about to make our game better
lowering the arc has never been one of them unless you're talking about
going to 3 feet low and that would give the pitchers more to work with.

Nothing's wrong with lower scoring games, Gary but not when ocmpromising
the joy of hitting the ball
is how you get there.
But I'm with you at how outlandish
some decisions can seem to be at times.
"How did we get HERE"
(sounds like Chris Rock).
Dec. 4, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Yea Joe, I don't get it. We went from a 6' range of arc to just 4'. Even USSSA allows a 7' range.

Pretty soon every pitch will theoretically look the same. Now I am completely with you that there are still things good pitchers can do even with just a 4' range, but not every pitcher is as good as the next guy and not all have those pitches in their arsenal to use.

And even by leaving the upper limit at 12' you and I can still do what we want with 8' or arc but would still have those 10' to 12' pitches to throw in as well.

I truly don't see the reason, certainly not if safety is a concern. Again, we are doing silly things to potentially make it more unsafe for pitchers and then wanting to do things like putting mini-golf obstacles in the infield.

I am confused.
Dec. 4, 2009
DCPete
235 posts
ASA is going to the 52/275 ball in 2010, at least on a regional basis, so lowering the arc to 10' may be a small/misguided concession to the batters on their part to make up for reduced performance of the new ball.
Dec. 4, 2009
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2667 posts
I agree with you DCP, that must be their reasoning.
Dec. 4, 2009
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
So if all they are doing is making one change to negate another, why make either? You can either have 1 - 1 = 0, or do nothing at all and stay at 0.

Again, what is the point?
Dec. 4, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
What do you mean ASA is going to the 275 x 52 ball on a regional basis
for 2010 and what does that mean or will mean for us playing senior ball?
What would it do to/for softball
and present equipment presently used?
What again are the reasons why
going to a 52x275 ball is a good idea
for senior ball or open softball?
What facts and or reasoning
is this change based on so we can argue with or wrap ourselves around any such
huge change in experience and investment going forward?
Anybody?
Dec. 4, 2009
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
Another attack on good player equipment.
Teams better ask which balls will be used in\for any given tournament before paying fees, if they want to prevent any ball sock shock.
I doubt all ASA tournaments will go with it but I'd bet many will to keep in good harmony with ASA if for no other reason.
Happy Holidays.
Dec. 4, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3938 posts
hey guys the only ball requirement for ASA in 2010 is that it will be optic yellow(and no MCT balls will be made for ASA either).as of now the only assoc going to the 52-275 ball is usssa and that is thier cold weather ball only for the moment.your local area's might be using the 52-275,but any ASA sanction tourney will be a 44-375 yellow ball standard.
Dec. 4, 2009
tattooball
620 posts
Nsa and usssa has approved the ball for all play, not just cold weather play. After usssa did the testing that the ball performed better in the heat than their regular ball and the same between 40 and 100 degrees it was announced that this is the ball of the future. You can use either ball until the .40/325's are gone and then only the .52/275.
Dec. 4, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3938 posts
thanks for the update kev.
Dec. 4, 2009
spoonplugger
Men's 60
58 posts
I played NSA 3 nights a week last year. I was swinging a Super Freak and they used the .40/325's. It seemed like a nice combination. Is the .40/325 a limited flight compared to the .44/375? Thanks
Dec. 4, 2009
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
"The ball of the future", Kevin.
Could you or Robert explain
what you mean?

And the optic yellow ball
is very hard to see well when there's a leafy or grassy green and sometimes
backstop-green background.
I know it's accepted as a better color than white but I'm not sure why
given real conditions versus perhaps
labratory ones.
Can anyone help shed some light
(I'm killin' myself)
on why Yellow balls are considered
better for use than white ones or red ones for that matter?
Dec. 4, 2009
tattooball
620 posts
yellow balls are not better visually, especially when the sun has just gone lower than the horizion.

As for the ball of the future, the associations have allowed us to sell through the current inventory, and natural progression will bring this ball in following the depletion of the old stock. However every director can use the new ball this year if they desire.
Dec. 4, 2009
butch17
Men's 55
415 posts
Cutting my teeth on slo-pitch softball with unlimited arch I believe it would be much harder to hit than a 10' high pitch.
Dec. 4, 2009
mad dog
Men's 60
3938 posts
yep butch i think i can agree with that.

also as kev and joe have said,the yellow can be hard to see during the sunset hrs and greenish backgrounds,but hey its what ASA and senior assoc's want to use.
Dec. 4, 2009
tattooball
620 posts
Mad dog
ISA,ASA,NSA,USSSA, and senior softball all now use the optic yellow ball exclusively.
Dec. 11, 2009
seniorsbfart
45 posts
I remember a long time ago a city league used orange balls. There were great in the day light but very hard to see at night.
Dec. 11, 2009
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Years ago (71/72) here in So Cal, Placentia to be exact, the Parks & Rec people spray painted balls Floresent Orange trying to make them more visible at night. Same issues, still hard to see.
Maybe they should have turned the lights out.?
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