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Discussion: What do you think about Major/Major Plus tournaments?

Posted Discussion
May 9, 2005
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2617 posts
What do you think about Major/Major Plus tournaments?
There are several AA and AAA qualifiers, do you think there would be enough interest in some Major/Major Plus tournaments? I realize that maybe only 4 or 5 50+ teams at the Major/Major Plus level would attend. I would think about the same number of 55's.
It is understandable that some AA teams don't want to play Major Plus teams. This would give the Major and Major Plus some where to play.
What do you think?
May 9, 2005
DoubleL10
Men's 65
811 posts
BruceinGa-
It would be nice IF there was enough interest.

It seems we (Major +) are always playing in tournaments in which we are the distinct minority AND no one wants to play us! And after we play the two or three "seeding" games (SPA), we are then placed with the younger Major Plus teams. For example, we played in Baton Rouge a couple of weeks ago. There were 10 50 and 55 teams. They split our team - Mission - out of the 55s and made us play a 50 Major and 50 Major + teams (Kittrell and Randy Smith). I would think if they make the Major + teams play the younger guys, it should be the 50AAA class. At least with the teams we play against, the 50AAA teams are very strong. For example, American Marking and the Senior Brothers are classed as AAA.

I find it hard to say a team is the 55 champion without having to beat the other 55-class teams.

Just venting. It seems all the SPA qualifiers are being run the same way. Pre-established "gold" and "silver" divisions regardless of how a team does in the "seeding" games. I've also seen how a 60 Major + team (Ironmen) are treated the same way. They play all the 55 upper division teams but not the AAA in the tournament proper.
May 10, 2005
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
597 posts
I don't really think that Major/Major Plus teams want to play AA/AAA teams anymore than those teams want to mix with the upper teams. Everyone that I know has a lot of respect for the upper level. Sometimes it is just a matter of picking your tournament though. In Indy we had six teams that were rated Major/Major Plus that played each other only. I know Akron had a good number last year, and the last time that I was at Johnson City they had their own bracket. So there are no tournaments in the South that draw enough teams to have a decent upper bracket? I guess that we have one softball advantage up here then. Take care, and good luck finding some play.
May 10, 2005
TMW10
Men's 55
5 posts
Nancy, you must have forgotten already that you made a AAA team play against those 6 Major/Major+ teams, and to make this worst, we were playing a 5 game format...so again I ask...why would you force a team to play up in this situation.
May 10, 2005
Airbosn
Men's 65
319 posts
There may come a time when the major/major plus divisions are the same and under one heading. According to the ratings there are only 15 major plus team in the USA so the opportunity of playing teams out of your geograhpical region is limited not unless your sponsor (if you have one) will transport, board, and feed the team.
May 10, 2005
turn2
484 posts
it is hard to be able to play the major plus teams until the worlds. everybody is so spread out you always usually have to play down. we are playing this weekend in the 55 major plus turn two and we are going to play 50 major teams in the round robin and then play Damens and Thermco in a 3 team double elimination format. will be like this until the worlds and then there will only be about 4 teams in the major plus bracket. thats my 2 cents.
thanks,
donnie
May 10, 2005
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
597 posts
TMW, if you are the gentleman who spoke to me Sunday, I guess that I need to repeat our conversation. I never made you play up. I was told that one AAA team needed to be moved up and was asked which of the three AAA teams was the best, and your team is much better than the other two choices. If you want to know why you need to speak with the park because I did not make the choice to move any team up; I only made the recommendation of the best AAA team. You are rated AAA, but even with the differential you did beat Pine Knob because of the quality of your play. I have always believed that you have a very good ball club, and I think that you played very well that weekend, but you must remember that everyone has their job, and mine was UIC and assisting in rating the teams for bracketing. I can only speak for the things that I had control of. Our AA team has been forced to play major teams before so I know what it is like, but we were able to let it go afterwards. Of course we do not play to the level of your team either. Good luck at the ISF.
May 11, 2005
TMW10
Men's 55
5 posts
Nancy, I did speak to you on Sunday and it sounds like I need to repeat my question after this comment, earlier in this message you stated that teams need to pick the tournaments they go to better to stay in their classification, and that here in Indy we had 6 Major/Major+ teams that played each other ONLY. That was not what happen, we as a AAA team had to play against those teams, we did manage to win two games out of five, but we were given 5 runs and allowed to play with eleven men on defense. Now to my question...with a 5 game format and 6 Major/Major+ teams already in the bracket...enough so that everyone plays everyone else...why was it required (as you stated) to move a AAA team up into this bracket??? The T.D. says you had some say in the decision, you say the T.D. said it had to happen, but with the format this tournament was using, there is no real reason to have made any AAA team play up. I realize the Major/Major+ teams have trouble getting enough teams to have their own bracket at most qualifiers, and sometimes it can't be avoided and as a team we have had to play up before in those situations, but this tournament had enough Major/Major+ teams that no AAA or AA team should have had to play against them. I appreciate the fact you talked to me on Sun. and all I want to say is that when we can control these situations were teams play against common ranked teams we should make every effort to do so, Teams and people pay out a lot of money to go to these events and all they want is a fair chance to compete.
May 11, 2005
LA
46 posts
TMW makes a good point. I would like to see the answers to his questions.
May 11, 2005
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
597 posts
I still can not answer the question since I did not make the actual brackets, but I do know that a Major Plus team did drop out, and I was asked which of the AAA teams was the best because of this. TMW's is the best of the three AAA teams that were there, and the results proved this. In looking at the results for that bracket, there were two Major Plus, four Major, and one AAA team. Two Major teams got first and second (4-1 and 3-2); of the rest one Major and the two Major Plus teams went 3-2; the AAA team went 2-3, and one Major team did not win a game. So even with the small differential TMW's team did well and even beat one of the top Major Plus teams in the country. The other AAA team that his coach and I talked about as a possibility to move up only went 2-3 against AA and AAA teams. Half of that bracket went 3-2 or 2-3 which is fairly even. I also wish that we played teams of our own ratings before the Nationals, but this qualifier was a least big enough to separate the AA from the Major Plus teams. Ultimately I have wide shoulders, so if you need a scapegoat, I will be it, but I still believe that this team is a very good AAA team, and they proved it by hanging with the best. I did watch all of their games because they were upset, and they played like champions. I just can not answer TMW's question because I do not know the answer. I wish his team luck although they may not wish me the same.
May 11, 2005
TexasTransplant
Men's 70
416 posts
Well said, Dave. If you used this board as a yardstick, you might draw the conclusion that nobody is having fun, when in reality nearly everyone is having the time of his life. The good fortune of being able to play ball at this stage in our lives far outways all the preceived problems with tournament, brackets, ratings, etc. Let's face it, there just aren't enough Major and Major Plus teams to have legitmate tournaments or their own every week. I've been on the losing end of mis-matches many times, but have yet to be treated with anything but respect by the big boys.
May 11, 2005
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2617 posts
I also agree with most of what Dave wrote. I disagree with "Most of us take more satisfaction in playing well (win or lose) against superior competition than we do in thrashing inferior competition ... "
My experience has been that the AA and AAA teams detest playing Major and Major Plus teams. When I played with AAA teams, the Georgia Masters and Wilkerson Packaging 3 and 4 years ago, all of us complained about playing Faith Electric, When I played with the Pensacola Hitmen we played in the Baytown Classic. We started playing all 50+ teams but after two games we were told that the AA and AAA teams wouldn't play us. They then asked us to play Mission, two out of three.
This year playing with Miken/Old South/Lill, I see the same thing happening.
I would like to see three or four tournaments where all Major and Major Plus teams are actively encouraged to come together for regional championships. If we knew that some of the Major and Major Plus teams from the Northeast would travel, say, to Myrtle Beach, we would be interested in attending.
I think this would be a great opportunity for SSWC and or SPA to step up to the plate and make this happen.

May 12, 2005
TexasTransplant
Men's 70
416 posts
Bruce,

Any idea what happened to the post we were responding to? I certainly don't remember anything objectionable about it that should have caused it to be deleted.
May 12, 2005
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2617 posts
I don't have a clue.
May 12, 2005
Proudtex40
57 posts
I'm about to start my third year of senior softball (I'm 52) and I'm having a blast. My first two seasons were at the Major Plus level with Fergie's and Damon's. It was great playing against some of my old softball buddies and I got to meet guys I had heard of, but never had the chance to meet in person. I just wish there was one Major division which would include the Major Plus and Major Teams. That would give everyone a chance to play different teams once in a while. However, I'm enjoying playing as a senior and look forward to seeing you all again (starting Sat in Glen Burnie).
God Bless you all,
Steve Shannon
Damon's
May 12, 2005
Gary Heifner
248 posts
I guess I can't see the problem in a qualifer. With the "5" run limit per inning, why wouldn't a AAA team go ahead and play a Major -Major+ team. It's only a tournament that gets you ready for the Nationals. I have seen a lot of excellent AAAs that were as good as many majors I have seen. I even watched a Major+ team play with the wind blowing in and they only hit two HRs. in a close game vs. a lesser team. I could see a problem in a tournament with no limits on the runs per inning. I think you get better playing competition that forces you to play better.
May 13, 2005
yo-dt
Men's 70
24 posts
If you guys want a major/major plus tournament then set one up! Call managers that are at your rating level and pick a tournament to play at. I'm sure TD's will gladly take your money. If your excuse is that you do not know the other managers call the association's headquarters and get their demographics.
May 15, 2005
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2617 posts
Yo-dt, the main problem is most major plus teams are located far from each other. One in Texas, one in Georgia, one or two in south Florida, etc.
I have heard that the Texas team, Pine Knob from the upper Midwest, our team Miken/Old /South/Lill and Thermco may be in Marietta.

If some midwest major plus teams wanted to play in one qualifier up there I doubt that we could play, since we pay our own way.
May 15, 2005
jah#4
Men's 55
551 posts
I think that a Major or Major + tourneys would be great, But I think it won't happen there has to be something there to play for to bring it together. We just played in Pensacola and had to play AA and AAA teams. Ask your self does a Major+ team better itself playing a AA team. I will tell you NO. It might help your batting avg. but that about all. the TD that read this site should not let a team play down 2 divisions of play, it just hurts the game and will make some player not come and play the game. There is a problem in pool play that we have to address. I do not have the answer but there are some players an some TD that can help us all not hurt us.
May 29, 2005
yo-dt
Men's 70
24 posts
How do you think the Major/Major + teams would fare if there was no courtesy runner rule?
June 1, 2005
armiho211
Men's 70
407 posts
to give a AA OR AAA team a fighting chance, why not spot 5- 6 runs per classification, FOR EXAMPLE AAA PLAYS MAJOR PLUS, 10 RUNS ARE GIVEN TO AAA TEAM. minimum 5 innings before run rule takes effect. if mixing the classifications are for practice only or preparing for nationals,then it should be no big deal for the higher teams to give up the runs for the sake of fairness. i would be more concerned about injuries, major plus teams hit the ball too hard, and the AA PLAYERS may not be quick enough to avoid getting nailed ,especially in the infield. i dont know what the answer is but something needs to be worked out for the benefit of all. i would hope that the sponsoring association will consider fairness,and injuries before mixing AA AND MAJOR PLUS. OR DO THEY WANT YOUR MONEY AND ARENT REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE THINGS THAT CAN HAPPEN. MY .02C WORTH.
June 7, 2005
yo-dt
Men's 70
24 posts
I know of no documented injuries occurring when two teams of differennt levels play each other. I think this issue is like the bat issue. There are no documented injuries casued by a high compression bat either.
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