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Discussion: We'll see who wants good balls.

Posted Discussion
Jan. 1, 2010
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2691 posts
We'll see who wants good balls.
I just replied to a survey from another senior association. A couple of questions delt with what balls I prefer to use. Maybe our input will decide which ball we will be using in seasons to come.
Another question was what manufacture made the best bat, or something like that. The question wasn't which model do I prefer. I don't know what they were asking here.
Imo this is how changes should come about, by surveys and polls.
HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL!
Jan. 1, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4395 posts
Bruce,
It was a very good survey. Roughly 17 questions. Covered most of the concerns now going on as well as what would you change. Makers of bats and balls NOT any models or type. Like last years well thought out. My only complaint was comment character number count limit was not enough. Especially on the one rule you would change or do differently & they wanted an explanation for. I was 601 over limit.
Happy New Year.
Jan. 1, 2010
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
BruceinGa and taits,

Hope you both are doing well and good luck in 2011.
About the ball issue I have been hearing on this board,our team has hit the Trump ball in almost every tournament we played in 2009,and for me and the team,we didn't have any problem with this ball, are we missing something?
Jan. 1, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4395 posts
#6,
I'd say that was the 44\375 ball not the 52 -275.
Do you mean we need to wait another year before we get lucky playing?
Jan. 1, 2010
JohnBob
Men's 60
248 posts
I agree it is a very good survey,one question was about going to a 1-1 count another about a possible hitting the middle rule,hopefully both will be shot down, changes the game way to much imo. Another was what they could do better and I suggested police the Roster better for world tourney, I know in 2009 there were a lot of M+ players playing M. This is very rare in SSUSA
Happy New Year!!
Jan. 1, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4395 posts
Some were really basic: how long have you been playing, age & last div level you played.
with appropriate choices for each.
Jan. 1, 2010
wagon487
Men's 50
530 posts
i thought it was a good ideal! some good questions, job well done spa. Now if terry and the gang could do the same...it might help them know what we want. I think they already know, but it would make it clear.
Jan. 1, 2010
Lefty
Men's 65
500 posts
checked my e-mail and I think it's a good survey with good questions. I put my vote in.
Jan. 1, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Bruce.
Right on and I would add voting
to polling
which sounds a little more like
one man-one vote stuff but I would always go with the majority
if it's set up and fairly done.
Very often polls rise and fall
on the effectiveness of the asking
and phrasing to get to the real
question or concerns.
Polls can be misleading either intentionally or not given
what's left in the question
and what's left out.
I think Trumps 44x375 ball is a good one
and works OK to well with senior bats
for the most part but I'm sure
they're other companies that are making
good balls too.
I hit a Baden Fire ball a couple of weeks ago and it seemed good, too.
I don't care who sells or buys
the balls as long as they're lively
good ones so we can have some fun.
Sometimes manufacturers can change
stuff in a product for any number
of reasons and it means this year's
computer, car, bat or ball
will not be the same necessarily
as last year's.
I think we need to be clear
and defined about
the play-ability of the ball we use
regardless of its name or specs.
A good ball is a good ball
and a sock is to keep feet
dry and warm.

Jan. 1, 2010
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2691 posts
Taits, #6 wants us to have a so-so year in 2010. lol
JohnBob, Major Plus players can play Major, they just can't play AAA unless that is approved.
Jan. 1, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4395 posts
JohnBob,
Move to Central CA and M+ players can play AA in ncssa. No player restrictions. Team Ratings are not 'rated' in same manner as other assn's.
Bruce, I figure their (#6's team), time is short before being moved up.
Jan. 1, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Bruce,
Take the poll conducted by SSUSA
and the managers of the team.
I never met a manager I agreed
with about all the major issues
of senior ball and though it was a step
in the right direction by SSUSA
they need and should go a lot farther
to create the representative tool
it needs to be
for the betterment of all.
I heard about SPA's questionnaire
and I think that's great, too.
I'm looking forward to seeing the results even though I didn't get one.
Sniff, sniff.
Jan. 1, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
This is a terrific thread
and representative of us.
Way to go guys and Bruce.
6 out of the 7 respondents
are known members of the senior softball
community whether registered
as such or not.
Really known is the acid test
and not officially known.
6 out of 7 is about 85 per cent
and very close to what I've been saying
all along and that is
over 80 per cent of the guys
who post show up and
want us to know who they are and
again, for all the right reasons.
"Never trust a guy wearing a mask."
Princess Bride
Jan. 2, 2010
PlanoPlayer
Men's 55
71 posts
Filled out my SPA survey. Not a bad survey. The general comments or questions at the end did not have enough character capability. I was like 350 over and had to delete some of my wants/desires/ideas.

In the general comments at the end I let them know that I felt the high tournament fees were limiting attendance, the 1 up rule should be back, their national should be moved to a destination with less risk for rain at that time of year, and their umps needed to call high pitches illegal which in my experience, they have never been very good at doing.

Anyone agree with me?
Jan. 2, 2010
PlanoPlayer
Men's 55
71 posts
I forgot to let you know that in my general comments I suggested that SPA's national tourney is 3 days instead of 4. Anyone agree?
Jan. 2, 2010
wagon487
Men's 50
530 posts
planoplayer, i could have saved you some characters, SPA does have the 1 up rule, at least in major. Never had a problem with them calling the high pitches.
Jan. 2, 2010
wagon487
Men's 50
530 posts
All the SPA's I've played in were 3 days. Dalton, three days, they even started the 2E on Friday night. Never played a 4 day SPA.
Jan. 2, 2010
PlanoPlayer
Men's 55
71 posts
Don't have 1 up in AAA and for me, high pitches were a problem at most tournaments.
Jan. 2, 2010
PlanoPlayer
Men's 55
71 posts
AAA is four day starting play on Thursday and ending on Sunday.
Jan. 2, 2010
wagon487
Men's 50
530 posts
If you want 1 up (which you say the don't have in AAA) play major. If you are hitting that many HRs, move up!
And if they are starting play on Thrusday, there must be a lot of teams.
But if you moved up to major it would solve two problems for you, three day tourneys and 1 up.
Jan. 2, 2010
PlanoPlayer
Men's 55
71 posts
I am not here to argue with you.
My comments remain the same.
Jan. 2, 2010
wagon487
Men's 50
530 posts
I'm not arguing with you. I thought I gave you a fix to your concerns.
I thought it made sense, more hr's move to major, shorter tourneys, move to major. just trying to help. I didn't even bring up sandbagging.
Just trying to help.
Jan. 2, 2010
PlanoPlayer
Men's 55
71 posts
Wagon 487: You are promulgating the idea that 1 UP is not needed in AAA and that a team that wants 1 UP in AAA should move to Major. By your logic, the major teams who seem to want 1 UP because they have it, should move up to Major + correct? Based on what you are suggesting for AAA, why doesn't your team move to Major +? How would you like it if Major did not have the 1 UP rule, would you then move up to Major + because there was no 1 Up in Major? My guess is that you would still have a Major team in that situation and the better answer would be to have 1 UP in Major versus your team moving to Major +. If you agree, why would it be any different for AAA or even AA for that matter?

In actuality based on my memory (which I admit :) I am getting older) there were more teams when there was the 1 UP rule in all levels of SPA. At least that is how I remember it.

I have never seen such small fields of teams at the SPA National...for AAA anyway. There were 12 teams registered and only 11 showed in 2009. They used to have 18-24 teams. High cost of the tournaments is certainly a factor but I also think that most teams would prefer the 1 UP in all levels of play.
Jan. 2, 2010
PlanoPlayer
Men's 55
71 posts
Wagon 487: You are promulgating the idea that 1 UP is not needed in AAA and that a team that wants 1 UP in AAA should move to Major. By your logic, the major teams who seem to want 1 UP because they have it, should move up to Major + correct? Based on what you are suggesting for AAA, why doesn't your team move to Major +? How would you like it if Major did not have the 1 UP rule, would you then move up to Major + because there was no 1 Up in Major? My guess is that you would still have a Major team in that situation and the better answer would be to have 1 UP in Major versus your team moving to Major +. If you agree, why would it be any different for AAA or even AA for that matter?

In actuality based on my memory (which I admit :) I am getting older) there were more teams when there was the 1 UP rule in all levels of SPA. At least that is how I remember it.

I have never seen such small fields of teams at the SPA National...for AAA anyway. There were 12 teams registered and only 11 showed in 2009. They used to have 18-24 teams. High cost of the tournaments is certainly a factor but I also think that most teams would prefer the 1 UP in all levels of play.
Jan. 2, 2010
wagon487
Men's 50
530 posts
SSUSA does not have one up, five HR's in Major and then it's on out. SPA has 1 up in Major after 4. Until the other teams gets to 4, each HR is a walk.
I like the SPA rule better. We went 4 and 2 in the winter nationals in Nov.
We were able to hit 30 HRs. We hit 16.
Of course we were playing on 325 fields.
Major + in SSUSA is 10 or so, and about the same in SPA. Big differece.
As far as the low teams in AAA for the nationals and it being 4 days, I agee, does not make sence. Did you play in Dalton last year for the SPA nationals?
Those were big fields.
And on my last note, I think that you could merge AAA and major together. If you used the 1 up after 4, everything would stay close. And the runs per innings rule helps.
Jan. 2, 2010
wagon487
Men's 50
530 posts
Bruce, you can now have hyour thread back.......sorry about that:)
Jan. 2, 2010
PlanoPlayer
Men's 55
71 posts
Actually I had a similar post on this board a few months ago requesting SSUSA to put the 1 UP rule back in for all divisions. I am just a believer that the 1 UP rule makes the senior game much better.

I have been at the SPA National in Dalton every year they have had it there and for every year they had it in Plano.

I am not sure if I was clear enough but I did not mean the small fields in Dalton as they were fine and the complex is great (the chance of rain for the area is a risk though), I meant the small field of teams. There were only 11 teams at the SPA National AAA division in 2009. That is not a very good showing.

I agree, Bruce can now have his thread back. I actually met Bruce at the 2009 SPA 2009 AAA National this past year. He is a great sportsman.
Jan. 2, 2010
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2691 posts
Thanks guys. What does promulgating mean???
Jan. 2, 2010
Airbosn
Men's 65
322 posts
As a tournament committee treasurer I can tell you this,
1. If we use crappy balls you da player will scream and yell.
2. You will recommend that we get better balls or you will not attend.
3. No matter what age group (50-75), you all want great balls to hit.
4. If a tourney gets a bad rap, teams will avoid.
5. BTW, We (the locals) make very little money on a tourney. We do it for the love of the game.
Jan. 2, 2010
LP
297 posts
the 1 up rule , and i mean used fron the start of the game not after a certian numbers of HRS are hit, evens out the teams. so if you have a power hitting team against a base hitting team, the base hitting team can stay in the game.

example ___ we played a team in the 2004 ssusa world that hit 18 HRS in one game we hit none and we beat them.

thats what will even out team i think, why ssusa got away from that rule i just dont under stand
Jan. 2, 2010
mad dog
Men's 65
3948 posts
AA,AAA should have a set hr rule,there should not be a 1-up for those 2 div's.AA gets 1,AAA gets 3,neither of thoise 2 div's need anymore hr's.if thier team hits more than like wagon says,move up.what satisfaction does a team get from playing down,oh i forgot,ya get a ring to pay for and can claim to be a champion.man up and play up.AA most likely will have no more than 2 maybe 3 guys who can hit a ball out every now and again.AAA shouldn't have many more guys who hit hr's maybe 3-5 guys with 1 of them that can hit hr's a lot(this guy will have 90% of the team's hr's),only difference will be the defense played by the AAA team will be a little better.
Jan. 3, 2010
DCPete
238 posts
Sand-bagging at AA & AAA does happen, but there should be some way of using 1-Up at every level since it adds so much more strategy to the game on both offense & defense.
Three years ago we won a tournament where 1-Up was in effect by intentionally walking a HR hitter with 2 outs & the bases loaded in the bottom of the 7th with a 4-run lead. Without 1-Up (and extra HRs being outs) we would have just pitched to him & if he had hit a HR it would have been the 3rd out, Game Over.
And no game should ever end with an over-the-fence hit being the last "out".
Jan. 3, 2010
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
We beat a very good team from Vancouver at the Vegas Winter Worlds over 60 AA.The score was 28-24,they had hit their HR and was there last at bat with two men on and the biggest player on their team hit a towering HR to end the game and put us in the Championship game on Sunday,sandbagging doesn't pay.They had several guys who could go out of the park "along ways".
Jan. 3, 2010
mad dog
Men's 65
3948 posts
DCPete,what div.walking the guy to me is not a sportsman type move(i've been the guy,and it was for a dumb tee-shirt)why not let him play also.the AA used to be none what so ever,AAA was a 2b only.if you wanted to hit hr's you played in the 2 upper div's(M,M+).the 2 lower div are more for(or should be)your rec type teams,local guys wanting to play together and such.

on the balls and such,yes any coach who wants his hitters to be able to blast away is gonna say they want the hard ball,b/c he'll not care if anyone will get hurt on defense,even his own players.if he is a defensive coach,he'll reply back tone down the bat or ball,as this coach see's the overall picture.if your any good at hitting it won't matter what ball you hit,if your only an avg fielder(like most AA,AAA and some of the upper div's)you do care as the ball will be on you so quick or by you before you can move to field it.
Jan. 3, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
sad puppy, games are not all about sportsmanship. They are about winning. The scoreboard records runs scored, NOT how many times you sing Kumbaya with your opponent.
Jan. 3, 2010
mad dog
Men's 65
3948 posts
as usual another dumb and dumber post,dipty when you gonna learn.
Jan. 3, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Why would you whine about sportsmanship, especially in the example he gave? Why shouldn't they do all they can to win? Isn't that why they keep score?

Any and all answers to those questions would be appreciated.
Jan. 3, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
855 posts
Theres a lot of merit to everything being said here. No one right or wrong view on hardly any issue.
Except the one Einstein Joe wrote about the Ball. Joe not all socks are made to keep the feet dry and warm, some are more for appearance and function.
Just like some Rocks are better for skipping.
Good balls and Warm bats forever!
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