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Discussion: Hybrid Turf Fields

Posted Discussion
Feb. 15, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hybrid Turf Fields
They're putting in a couple of all Turf fields in San Francisco,
repaving a couple of our favorite
spots and it seems to me
that the best combo of turf and
natural is turf infield and grass
outfield.
Then the infield hops are true and you can in front of 'em better
and the grass feels better, looks better
and keeps the ball from rolling forever
especially on a more open field.
What do you think?
Feb. 15, 2010
diehard
Men's 55
245 posts
Hey Joe,

Here in the Baltimore area, all of the High schools are going to the new synthetic turf fields. Running on them is great for old geezers like us, and I have even taken ground balls off of them and the hops are true just as you said. The resons that they are going this way is the high costs of maintaining natural turf fields. It would seem to me more economical to put the synthetic on both infield and outfield.
Feb. 15, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4315 posts
Yes, and good deal for payers, but SF only allows single walled bats or wood.
So there goes your good bat half of the "fun" equation.
Feb. 15, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Scott and Gregg,
I play once or twice a week
in SF to keep my game head and game sharp for the weekends so the bat/ball
combo isn't as important for me
as compared with the huge investment
I make in time, money and energy on the weekends.
As an infielder by trade, Gregg,
I really appreciate the "true hops" of the turf infield.
Feb. 15, 2010
Lecak
Men's 55
1005 posts
Joe, Las Vegas just opened 6 Big League Dreams fields where the old Freedom Park fields were. Artificial turf IF and natural grass OF. What a pleasure to play on. Not sure if any of the senior events we have in town will ever use them though.
Feb. 15, 2010
Jawood
Men's 50
788 posts
Lecak, I think I saw where you have something to do with LVSSA? What's going on with moving the Nationals from October to Labor Day? October was perfect!
Feb. 15, 2010
Omar Khayyam
984 posts
Big League Dreams in Manteca, CA has the artificial turf infield and grass outfield. I agree with einstein that it's a good combo. HOWEVER, BLD in Manteca has not been consistent on outfield maintenance and I have played there with large mud holes in the outfield and poor grass conditions. And for that "privilege", you pay at the gate even if you're already paid in the tournament.

This combo also does not save money over an all artificial, such as in Redwood City CA. With all artificial you save on water, mowing, repairing divots and mud holes, and fertilizing, and you don't have dangerous sprinkler heads in the field.

Also, BLD bans the Miken, mostly for safety reasons, although I prefer fielding a fast one-hopper on artificial turf to a bad-hopper on dirt.
Feb. 15, 2010
green rocket
51 posts
Hybred fields are the new wave for right now, and the mentioned maintainence free is a big issue. They are popping up all over the place and competition if fierce for your hard earned playing dollars.

Like Omar said, even with these new synthetic fields, certain maintainece issues still have to be dealt with. First, is the baselines around the bases, where one would slide. These get worn in just a short time and need to be replaced. I've seen them replaced like carpet, a patch and then you have a very uneven surface.

Heat is another issue. When it gets over 80 degrees, your playing on a hot rubber surface and the heat reflects right back up at you. Not very pleasent.

Woodland, CA where they had the California State Championships, has giant water guns to wet the fields and cool it, but it is only temporary.

Also after playing a few innings, the balls get real dirty (rubber marks) all over them and are more difficult to pick up in the outfield.

The last time I was in Palm Springs, their BLD complex was rather shoddy with paint chipping and very low upkeep of the dirt infelds and grass outfield.

I'm glad SSUSA moved their Winter World;s from this site.
Feb. 15, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Lecak
As I understand it, the BLD in Vegas will always be the first fields to be used when any tournament comes to town, as part of their deal Vegas. The fields we normally use will become secondary.
Feb. 15, 2010
Lecak
Men's 55
1005 posts
Jawood the dates are correct I don't believe the fields were available later therefore the date change.

E4/E6 yes you are correct what you don't have is the kids schedules, ASA, UTRIP, NSA and AFA. They basically have them booked for the balance of the year. I would be surprised if any weekend play for seniors takes place. It is possible some of the weekday schedules go there 65 and over. The weekend stuff most likely will be the normal fields always used.

Feb. 15, 2010
Jawood
Men's 50
788 posts
If they had the fields last year, why wouldn't they get first choice this year? Didn't do it fast enough? Also, why wouldn't they use the Monday of Labor Day weekend when nobody has to work instead of making everyone play on the Friday and have to take it off?
Feb. 15, 2010
stever
Men's 65
61 posts
It has been my understanding that all the BLD fields forbid the use of the senior bats. Therefore, I would think it highly unlikely a senior tournament to be held at one of them. Could be wrong, though.
As to the hybrid fields, I find it a bit amusing the posters advocating against the senior bats because the balls come at the pitcher and infielders too fast would like the aritificial infields. True, you get truer bounces (although the ball stays down), but it sure goes through faster than on dirt. Plus, rug burns are a bitch and the seams can cause major problems. I liked them as a middle infielder, I'm not so approving as a corner infielder.
Feb. 15, 2010
green rocket
51 posts
Also for BLD, its all about money. I've seen quality senior softball teams pushed to get off the field so some low level co-rec E and below (league play) can get on and play their game. It's just not right....

They milk you dry by having to pay each day you play. Their concessions are good but major league prices.

Plus, once you've played a couple of times on fields like that, they lose their novelty.

For Vegas, I've always liked their fields in Henderson, NV. Rancho Arroyo I think they are called?
Feb. 16, 2010
Omar Khayyam
984 posts
Stever, you're right about anti-senior bat posters like me approving of the artificial turf fields.:=) I play on both artificial turf and on dirt.

As to safety, what concerns most pitchers and corner infielders is the line drive that arrives too fast to be fielded properly—this is the feared danger from the Mikens et al.

As to fielding, what I like about the ground ball on artificial turf is the predictability of the bounce and the opportunity to at least get a glove in front of it, if not catch it. Whether a grounder is faster on artificial turf than on sun-baked dirt is questionable. And most infielders and pitchers are frustrated by the senior bat grounder that speeds past them before they can react and diminishes their ability on defense.
Feb. 16, 2010
doker
Men's 60
168 posts
Hey guys if you haven't played in reno on those turf fields you're really missing out...we have the same surface here in Austin at the UT baseball fields....the ball actually slows down a bit when hit hard on the ground...not like the old astro turf fields...and it really doesn't bounce very high in the outfield...a great surface even in Reno in late May....Doker............great bounces and slower through the infield than a hard dirt infield!!!!!!!!!!
Feb. 16, 2010
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
einstein....how is the turf on the ankles of those that still slide? Maybe you could ask those that play in the leagues. I remember hearing that players were getting hurt.
Feb. 16, 2010
Omar Khayyam
984 posts
Doker, I agree with your comments on the artificial turf fields in Sparks. My only caveat is that when the field is wet, look out! I played there once about 10 minutes after a rain and the skidding ground ball just about took some heads off! Luckily, these fields drain very, very quickly and are soon back to normal. What a great surface!
Feb. 16, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Omar, I am trying to picture this. How does a skidding ball take off a head? Where is the head? On the ground?
Feb. 16, 2010
Omar Khayyam
984 posts
Dirty, don't know how you field your position, but my guys try to get low to the ground. Secondly, a skidding ball is not one trapped in water, but one that hydroplanes from the water. That said, it is obviously hyperbole and a man with your education should know that.
Feb. 17, 2010
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2617 posts
I wish we had some artificial turf fields in the southeast. Even the Olympic fields in Columbus, Ga have natural turf.
Doker, I agree with you about Golden Eagle in Reno. Just remember don't wear 3n2 turfs as the heat melts the glue used to attach the sole.
Feb. 17, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Omar, there is nothing "obvious" about bad hyperbole. Yes, the head stays down but not THAT low. :)
Feb. 18, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Gary,
Seems our boy or girl
is not only gutless but he or she is a bad infielder.
You're not trained to get low playing the infield.
You're trained to move your body in front of the ball and keep your glove lower than the ball
and than react up to it.
Talking a lot, G, is OK when
someone's there and can back it up.
Now we're learning the value of not
giving us his/her name.
He's got no game and he doesn't really know what he's talkin' about.
I wouldn't want people to know who I was
either.
Feb. 18, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Joe my man, I thought it wasnt suppose to get personal. And the anonimity issue is really getting old.
Freedom of speech says nothing about identity.
If I may quote you "cant we all just get along?"
Feb. 18, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4315 posts
From arch enemies to kissie, pissy, sissy faced is a joke.
Ah, good ole identity crisis. Who cares. Any 'name' is better than a blank or dots on the ID post....
Omar, man your old, your really playing down... lol

Feb. 18, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Sure Joe, your glove needs to stay low, literally on the ground when the ball is hit. But kind of tough to do that without your body being low as well, unless you have reeeeeaaal long arms. :)
Feb. 18, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
We need stuff to think about, E,
before thinking doesn't matter anymore.
Anonymity is a form of depersonalization
and dehumanization in a society
that loves machines, power, money, greed and suing one another
more than God and one another.
And that would be a majority opinion
as evidenced by over 80 per cent
of the guys who post on the site
have revealed themselves
formally or informally.
Feb. 18, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
I see where you are going Joe and agree to a point. However our Democratic society has always been based on a certain amount of anonymity, hence the secret ballot when we vote.
The power you are talking about have anything to do with bats and balls? Just kidding.
You do know this is the first true majority you are right about! =)
Looking forward to a lively discussion with you in Reno my friend!

Feb. 18, 2010
Omar Khayyam
984 posts
I think this is the fourth time I have called einstein on his false information. I took the time to look it up. I listed every poster. I then looked up every poster. The figures are 58% anonymous and 42% identified (at least by name, not necessarily location so a common name can still be "anonymous").

The majority registered as anonymous on this site.

The requirements for participation welcome anonymous posters (after all, they're the majority).

It is only einstein, an intelligent guy who has probably looked everybody up like I did and found he was wrong, who keeps insisting that "over 80%" (twice the actual percentage) are either known or, his phrase, "revealed informally."

I bow to einstein's superior knowledge. He somehow knows over 80% of all posters when the rest of us know less than half. Actually, his secret knowledge seems a bit scary.

I'm sorry that my superior arguments have evidently frustrated him and led him to denounce me, and the majority of posters on this site, as "gutless". What a slam at the majority of his fellow softball players.

In fact, several men who regularly read and post on this board know who I am, but evidently none of them has told einstein. So he lashes out at all anonymous posters—the majority, of course. Maybe I'll just have to go and shake his hand in Reno or Phoenix so he can return to "lively bats, lively balls."
Feb. 18, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Over 80 per cent of the guys
on this site
who post have identified themselves
formally or informally.
Why do you think?
I/we would embrace you and your right to disagree with us if you would give me, you and all of us, the respect
and recognition we all deserve.
You have NO credibility
as you chose to hide yourself from view.
None.
A waste of words, space and attention.
And that would be a majority opinion.
Feb. 18, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Respect isnt given, its earned.
I would guess, most new guys who come on this site have no idea how to look up who we are. They read and post if they choose to.
They read what is written without even a thought about idenity or anonymity.
I read what is written, sort thru the issues, and form my own ideas and opinions.
There is one I especially liked, that was the idea of a players association, brought up by of all people Mr Rinaldi.
Joe talks with passion about Lively Balls and Good bats. And the idea of Free Defensive subbing. He also speaks for the majority? JK
Joe you have EARNED my respect for your ideas, ideals, and honest passion for Senior Softball.
We have never met, so in essence we too are anonymous. Both hiding behind our screen names.
Omar, hold true. If you see Joe in Reno, show him you are real. Or dont.
Feb. 18, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Respect has to be given,
going in, E.
"All men are endowed with certain
inalienable rights..." and stuff
like "we're all God's children"
mean we can't wait for respect
and recognition.
It's gotta be up front and clear
like a handshake so intentions are clear
and not aggressive.
Feb. 18, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
joe please keep your god comments to yourself as you truely can't believe there is one with the way you comment on here.omar has done nothing but post very inciteful and professional posts,but you acn't take it b/c maybe he is better at it than you.just get over it he doesn't care to have his personal info out there.i believe he has gone thru and got the numbers right and you haven't,i think is closer to 50/50 that people put thier name and any info in thier sign up.who cares,this is a damn message board and that is the way they are all run(anonymity),so like i said get over it.

lets make the game safer to play than worry about who's is posting and thier name.
Feb. 19, 2010
Omar Khayyam
984 posts
Oh, that I had the psychic eye of einstein.

On this very thread, 5 of the 14 posters are anonymous (and one wished he had never listed his name because of abuse he receives). That's 36% anonymous...but einstein claims he knows more than 80%. I don't.

On the adjoining thread, Teams Being Bumped Up, there are 22 posters and 11 are anonymous. Once again, I don't know any of the anonymous identities and that is 50% of the posters...but einstein claims that he does. I guess he would still claim that those he doesn't know (and I doubt he knows that many) are "gutless".

I don't believe that. I enjoy all their perspectives. Why do I have to know who they "really" are to share a love for softball and a frustration with how things are sometimes? And as I have said before, the ONLY poster who is bothered by anonymity is einstein...although he claims he is in the majority on this, too.

But this is supposed to be a thread about hybrid fields, and my first post on this complimented einstein for his perspective and opinion! His response? Name calling and invective, not only of me but of a majority of posters on this site. I'm for returning to the topic or moving on.

Thanks mad dog for your perspective. I believe you are in the majority. Certainly SSUSA believes that or they wouldn't host a popular message board allowing anonymity by the majority.
Feb. 19, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
You're a sad footnote of depersonalized
and dehumanizing times.
Wittingly or unwittingly
you've become part of the problem
You have nothing to say to the majority of us, men, real men who show up
and need to continue to show up
so we can help return our society to one
where basic fundamental human values
rule and there's no need or desire
to hide and "get off" on one another,
at everyone's or anyone's expense.
You're nobody, OK, literally and figuratively, a character, not a person,
just a thought, a fart in the universe,
interesting but not characteristic
of anything substantial or worth
investigating or knowing or believing.
You need to stand in and show up
if you want
to be listened to or believed
about anything you have to say
and that would be a majority
opinion.
Robert, you're tone has changed
and I want you to know for whatever
reason that's a good thing.
We disagree but you're somebody
and worthy of respect at all times.
OK is a character and not a man
until he stands up and in for himself
and merits no credibility or respect from any of us
regardless of whatever
may slide out of his computer.



Feb. 19, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
I was pulled over by a Policeman recently and given a traffic citation, as the officer was writing my ticket it occured to me just how much respect I have for the job they do, just how much respect I have for the Badge and what it stands for. I found I couldnt respect the man behind the badge for anything more then having the guts to wear it. Why? Because I dont know the man.
When you arbitrarily give or get respect without having earned it as a person you are cheaping that respect.
Like anything else we do, working for something, anything makes it so much sweeter and worthwhile.
My point is this, we dont know Omar as the man. But from what I have read of his posts, I respect his ideas and imput.
Feb. 19, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
If I'm not mistaken
that policeman has his name or a number
in full view somewhere on his uniform
that will identify him for all the right reasons.
He's not a cop.
He's a man who works for all of us and his name is Fred or Bill or Robert.
And from what little I know about the constitution, the authority he has,
is only the authority that he, any or everyone of us has as Citizens
of the United States.
I'm sure OK knows me
but I don't know him.
He's referred to me as Joe and claims
to know how I think or what I should think about important matters that concern me and lost of us.
He needs to step up to the plate
like the great majority of us
to be recognized as a real player
in the game.
I know we live in a tabloid
or "gotcha" society and what anyone
anonymous or not says can make the headlines and get everyone talking.
That's not good or a sign of anything good about us.
Innocent until proven guilty
is how we role or we're supposed to.
I'm waiting for Tiger Woods or the next poor bastard that gets caught for being a human being to say to the press,
"my personal life
is none of your business.
Not any of you, anytime, anywhere
and any place".
Feb. 19, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
When you are pulled over by Officer FredBillRobert, whats the first thing you see in your rear view mirror? A police Car with lights flashing, not the man behind the wheel. The Police, not the Policeman.

If I'm not mistaken thats exactly what Tiger told the press. "This is a private matter between my wife and me, we will work it out"

The anonymous are innocent until proven guilty as well.
Our constitution says nothing about identity, it does however give us Freedom of speech rights.

Feb. 19, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Oh yea and the right to play on those great Hybrid turf fields that are becoming so popular. =)
Feb. 19, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
E, maybe we should take this off
to personal email
but EVERYTHING about our constitution
is of and about identity.
We've got some good talks coming up.
Feb. 19, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Joe,
I would be happy to discuss anything of interest to both or all of us.
You have my address I believe.
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