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Discussion: Teams Being Bumped Up

Posted Discussion
Feb. 17, 2010
Llama Man
Men's 55
15 posts
Teams Being Bumped Up
Because of the way that SSUSA has become obsessed with moving teams up in the ratings, my team won't play any tournaments in SSUSA this year! They are afraid that if they win one qualifier, they will be immediately bumped up a division in the ratings and won't get to play for a National or World Championship in the division we belong in. It has happened to many of us before, where we have even won the Western Nationals and then not been allowed to play for the overall National Championship in that division! So, instead of being able to play the most teams and the best competiton, we will have to just play smaller local tourneys that aren't SSUSA. Is this what SSUSA really wants? For more and more teams to drop out because of this constant bumping up this first time you win anythng? When I first joined SSUSA back in 2003, we were allowed to at least play out the year in the division we started in and then when we won a National Championship in 2004, we were moved up....which I had no problem with! But if you don't allow winning teams to progress through the year towards a national championship in their division, teams won't want to play SSUSA anymore, as has happened to my team! I want to play where there is the best competion and most different teams to play, but your policies have driven my team away. Maybe you should rethink this practice or risk losing more and more teams. Tha's my 2 cents worth!
Feb. 17, 2010
OTE24
Men's 65
122 posts
I agree. Mid season bumps force you to start moving players to stay competitive in the higher division. Tough to win in Majors with AAA power. Being on the edge of being moved up is a consideration when it comes to entering tourneys. Moving teams during a season should be well thought out as to how well the team will do in the higher bracket.
Feb. 17, 2010
wagon487
Men's 50
524 posts
Lman, I've seen many teams win and not be moved up until next season. I see it in majors all the time. Just play, it will be okay. And for some reason you do get bumped up (which I don't think will happen) then stop playing usssa.
Feb. 17, 2010
wagon487
Men's 50
524 posts
that should be ssusa, not usssa, sorry
Feb. 17, 2010
Bob50
Men's 60
240 posts
Llama,
To be clear--Do you want to play the most teams or the best competition?
Bob Schulz
Feb. 17, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
Past article has how it is supposed to work: Summer 09 edition page 9.
With all mentioned and more one could add. I feel of you win a TOC bracket, You should get a move up, unless say you only one one other that got you there.
Not counting qualifiers.
Article is not explicit however, like much of the changes that have been occurring. Not well thought out for end run.
You all have choices, you know what they are.
Just my opinion.
I forgot the read the new one...
Feb. 17, 2010
lemons
Men's 65
302 posts
If your team happens to be connected to a SSUSA official and you win a few regionals, you may retain your rating in spite of your success. If not, and skullduggery exists, you may be moved up just because. :>)
Feb. 17, 2010
Q19
Men's 55
48 posts
Deja Vu! After we (EAST BAY OLDIES) won the '09 Rockin Reno Challenge we got bumped up to MAJOR PLUS. Granted we won a few tournaments in the Nor Cal Senior circuit, we were'nt exactly killing teams. We quietly protested to SS-USA to no avail. Then we make SS-USA look good by finishing second place to the Seacrest Mavericks in the World Championships in Phoenix.
Feb. 17, 2010
stever
Men's 65
62 posts
Bob50...Unfortunately, there are a lot of players who don't care about the best competition, they only want to win a ring. I really get tired of the teams that win 80% of the time in their brackets and then whine when they get bumped up. There are a lot of considerations in deciding where to rate a team and winning one tournament, unless it is a major tournament, will not cause you to be bumped up. Now, if you play in three qualifiers and win all three, or if you totally blow out the competition, you probably are in the wrong classification and should be bumped up in mid-season. Considering all the variables the officials who decide the ratings have to look at I think they do a pretty good job...not perfect, but probably as good as can be done. I know from last years SSUSA, ISA and SPA Nationals I couldn't complain about teams in our bracket being mis-rated. The best teams on those particular weekends won, as they should have, but there were many others that could have won had a couple of breaks gone the other way. (No, we didn't win any of the three tournaments). And I didn't feel any of the teams in the bracket were mis-rated.
Feb. 17, 2010
smooth01
Men's 50
122 posts
I consider the TOC a major tournament.
Should those winners be moved up,or
does it depend on the margin of score's?
Feb. 17, 2010
Llama Man
Men's 55
15 posts
To be clear, if it was up to me, my team would play in SSUSA tourneys anyway. But I have seen many teams bumped up after winning one tourney. The winners at Reno, and at the NW Championship in Portland in 55AAA were both bumped up to Majors immediately after winning in 2010, just to name two off the top of my head. I'm bummed that most of my team has seen this happen so often that they will avoid playing in SSUSA for most of the year at least! I would like to play the most teams I can and the best competion there is in the legitimate division we belong in! In 2004, my former team was able to win a couple qualifiers and then play for and win the National Championship, before we were moved up the next year. That was fine with me, although it did lead to the break up of our team in an effort to constantly have to bring in more power. Now,one win and your moved, unless you have a good connection with the right people it seems! Each team should get a year at the level they start the year at,....that's all I'm saying.
Feb. 17, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
I'd think the TOC to be the top one or pinnicle for all of them.
A win is a win, be it by 1, 5 or 8 runs as said to have been used.
I've also seen teams moved after one major win, but I have also see no move after 3 wins in a year.
Parity is not there, no written justification, explanation or reason usually accompanies a move either way, up or down. Ability to request review or reconsideration is there but the same people do it, soy you need to have your stats and ducks in a row for the shooting gallery.
Keep your books, scores and player info safe. You may want to keep a few about other teams as well as you can while your at it. Comparative values as it were.
Feb. 17, 2010
Mr. Manassas
230 posts
I have a question for the "staff"...IMS Dogs moved up to major plus on the basis of one win...Windy city wins several...not moved up...What is the reason? The Dogs have a 50/50 record with the major teams in Virginia.....
Feb. 17, 2010
Llama Man
Men's 55
15 posts
To SSUSA Staff: I never said that my current team was treated unfairly. I joined "The Spot" in April of 2009 and it was a 55 AAA team then and when we played in Kent, WA in April, so I don't know how you say we were moved down. Maybe some previous incarnation of some of the same players? We played at AAA all year and never won anything,so there we remain, as we should. I'm upset that my team wants to try and improve and try to win a national championship in AAA but are afraid to play in any tournaments before the Worlds since they feel they will be penalized and bumped up if they were to win something.I think we should worry about that after we DO win something but can't convince them on that point. We have all seen the major push you guys have made over the last few years to move teams up quickly, so don't pretend it hasn't been happening. I wish you would just put a team in it's proper classification and leave it there till the end of the year and then make changes up or down based on a full years results! That's the way it used to be when I joined SSUSA. This team(Spot) has been treated fairly and I have no complaint about that. Thanks.
Feb. 17, 2010
Jawood
Men's 50
798 posts
Agree with you Liama Man, let teams stay in one division for the whole year! So what if they win a couple of tournaments during the season. Good for them!
Feb. 18, 2010
softballerK1
Men's 65
29 posts
The thing I don't like is, you only have to win one tournament to move up, but you have to get your butt kicked in three to have a possibility of moving back down. There should be some consistency there. Every team can have their day for one tournament. The question is, are they winning the majority of the tournaments they enter? I agree you should stay the same rating all year and then make adjustments at the end.

Mr. Manassas, wasn't your one win in an ISSA event? I thought since the breakup of the Summit, other associations tournaments weren't supposed to count against you.
Feb. 18, 2010
Paco13
373 posts
If I am paying $500.00 for a tourney, I should be able to play what ever level I desire. Should a team be penalized for having a good competitive team and be able to play with friends...No. Sure we all like to play better competition, but I am not so certain that at this age competition is that important, frienship and good times I believe is also part of the equation. Bottom line if a team wants to play AAA with major talent...who cares, there is not a lot of difference, at the end they pay there money and invested their time. No Assoc should dictate where we play, be happy that we play on your assoc. Have a nice day.
Feb. 18, 2010
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
stever....you're right about teams just wanting to win rings. My team won at LVSSA as a major, then played winter-worlds as M+. Only one other M+ team there, so best out of 3 games. We won and are now entrenched in M+. We may not be good enough to win at the nationals, but at least we will be playing against good competition. Most of us did not purchase the M+ rings.
Feb. 18, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
I'd think there should be some distinction between winning a qualifier as opposed to any of the other bigger major ones UNLESS that qualifier is also a TOC birth. Those are Major tournaments.
There is a real wording problem there with them.

Paco, go play in NCSSA, you can do it easily all the time, and now on two different teams. You might have to move though, Va is a long way to go for a mom and pop T' as I call it. Buy fees are much less., Maybe you would break even...
Feb. 18, 2010
Corky
Men's 55
446 posts
SoftballerK1 is exactly right........win one, get moved up......then you have to lose 3 with at least 6 teams to get moved back down and only then if the margin of "loss" is 5 runs or more......Been there done that bought the T shirt. AND to add insult to injury, after we collected the data for the move back to AAA, SPA won't recognize the move?
RATE US AT THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR AND MAKE NO MOVES UNTIL THE END OF THE YEAR BASED ON PERFORMANCE......Why all the effort to PLEASE the smallest segment of our game???? (major+)....We all would love to play at that level but the reality is that most of us are in the middle of that Bell Curve (AAA).
Even when half a team moves up to another age level the rating for those who stay down remains the same. SO......the team names are changed, but the players are the same, just to stay where you should be......."The Rules" make you do these kind of things to play where your competitive. I hate changing names and buying new uni's every year. (plus the new team sanction fees)
Feb. 18, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
Corky,
That is one reason a visual player data base is necessary. Last year there were some players on two teams but under different names.
I know another was 3 years too young to play on one team but he did. Not in SSUSA as far as I know though.
A win is a win. If you know you will pull it off, and they usually do, just slow down the motion and keep it under the 5 runs or so and are home free in most cases. But these with one win and a move is questionable just like the ones who never did move. You win the TOC you earned it, move up.
I don't like the rating stay for the entire year though. Your performance can be manipulated.
Maybe in May ( because the year is just started for some), then at the end of July and again end of Oct. even if they change or flip the Worlds and TOC.
Feb. 18, 2010
leftyodoul
Men's 60
99 posts
Someone please enlighten me. I thought that your classification was based on your power (number of Home Run hitters or home runs that you are able to hit in the course of a game). Afterall, as you move up in classification the number of allowable home runs increases. So,you might have a team that is very good at the AAA level but they don't hit home runs very often. Should they be moved up just because they play well at that classification? If they are moved up they then have a decision to make. Do they stay with the same group of guys and most likely get hammered by teams that have more power or do they break up their team and go after other players with more power? Neither option sounds appealing.
Feb. 18, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Paco, you were kidding with all that, weren't you?
Feb. 18, 2010
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
He has to be kidding !
Feb. 18, 2010
WOW
197 posts
I'd like your opinion.

1. A team plays at a certain level for 12 yrs, and has close to an equal # of wins as losses.

2. Plays Reno and wins 6 and looses 1. 5 of those wins are by 1 run.

3. Gets IMMEDIATLEY bumped up [after 12 yrs. at the LOWER level].

4. Plays the next 4 SSUSA tourn. at the higher level and wins 2 and looses 17 [or something very close to that].

5. Appeals to be moved back to where they should be.

6. Is denied as a lot of those losses where close games. That same logic was NOT used when we won those games by 1 run!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

7. Sees other teams win similiar tourn.
3 or 4 times and DOESN'T get moved up.

8. Is told by 1 of those teams "you just have to talk to the right guy"

9. Talks to that "guy"

10. DENIED again.

11. Seem fair to you?


Feb. 18, 2010
Mr. Manassas
230 posts
You are correct...ISSA was the one that we won. A number of tourney directors have said that we were not a major plus team but to no avail. It would not be so bad if the ssusa would follow the same rules for everyone.
Feb. 18, 2010
lemons
Men's 65
302 posts
Amen! Connections shouldn't "smooth the way" to remain in a lower class and limited success shouldn't be an automatic bump up. Consistency would be nice.
Feb. 18, 2010
wagon487
Men's 50
524 posts
I don't think anyone should be bumped up for winning 1 tourney. Sometimes you just get on a roll.
2 maybe 3 should bump you up.
I also think you should be able to stay in your division for the entire season.
Is it written anywhere how someone would get bumped up in the middle of the year? My first year we won ISSA, ISF and SPA in majors. We bumped oursleves up for the ASA nationals.
Feb. 18, 2010
SSUSA Staff
1261 posts
We seldom comment directly on issue-oriented Message Board threads, allowing the Member comments, right or wrong, to guide the discussion. However, certain comments made in this thread mandate clarification.

The SSUSA has never made, or failed to make, a good-faith ratings decision with respect to any team, at any rating, at any age level, based upon a personal relationship as the basis for the (non)decision. Any representation to the contrary is false on its face and wrongly serves to diminish the integrity of the game and the SSUSA.

The ratings process has been disclosed on numerous occasions here and in the Senior Softball News. The principal misconception is that winning any SSUSA major event comes with an automatic ratings increase. This is false. The ONLY tournament win that guarantees a ratings increase for the Champion (except Major+) is a win in Phoenix at the World Championships. Other automatic increases are applied to teams that win the year-end National/World Championship of four of the major Senior Softball Summit Organizations, namely ASA, SPA, ISA, and ISSA. And those Champions are moved only when their win comes in larger brackets of more than five teams. Championships earned at the Huntsman Senior Games, the LVSSA and the Senior Softball World Series do not result in an automatic ratings increase.

Teams are moved up when their overall performance statistically indicates they are winning regularly, by larger run margins per game, against competition in their current ratings group in SSUSA events, regardless of whether or not the team has won a championship. (Example: Wilson Trophy 50's were moved last March from 50-AAA to 50-Major without a tournament win in the prior year and a half. That decision was validated later when they won the Northwest Championships at the Major rating.) The converse is true, for downward ratings moves, for teams losing regularly by larger margins.

The statistical scoring and win-loss data is supplemented by written comments from members of the SSUSA National Ratings Committee before any decision is made to re-rate a team, up or down. Occasionally, ratings changes are made coincidental with roster additions of players that have a player history at a higher rating level than the team at that time. These are made on a case-by-case basis, and always with Manager input in the process.
Feb. 18, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
WOW,
You do well where your at. Not Great like we all want, but pretty equal overall. Isn't parity what most player\teams are looking for?
The ranking have been off for a long time, not saying they are better or worse now, but I think it will change again, when the new regional framework comes into play next year, unless players are "grandfathered" into it somehow... Then you have another can of worms. The who (they are), how long they were playing for the team, where they live & other team "location", etc, etc ....
None rank teams like everyone wants, but they do the best they can with the info available they have & from other assns I'd say.
The proprietary info non sharing crap is for the birds. Some can't even agree to disagree.
Wow, Play more 65's with Dee.
Feb. 18, 2010
turn2
486 posts
It is all politics as stated in an earlier post. They move who they want to and leave other teams alone and then they give you a bogus reason on why they moved you up and when you question other teams they tell you they will look into it.
Well they must still be looking a year later.
my 2 cents,
Donnie
Turn Two
Feb. 18, 2010
Tate22
Men's 55
263 posts
Different year, same old issue. The ratings question is exacerbated because there are one too many divisions in senior ball. With the 5 run innings and home run caps, there is more than ample equalizing to allow more than one type of team to win. Combine that with coin flips for each game. Combine Major and Major Plus, and leave AAA and AA as is. There isn't much difference between most major teams and the M+ teams anyway. Much of the "bump up" squabbles would go away if there were only three divisions.

Despite the passionate defense by the SSUSA staff of their so-called statistically-based rating system , my experience is that mid-year bumps are arbitrary, subjective over-reactions that serve to isolate good teams and leave them with nobody to play in their age group. Last year my 55 M+ team played 25 of 75 games against 50's teams because there were no other 55 M+ teams in many tournaments. There are 5-year age brackets for good reason, but 4 skill levels subverts that for no good reason.

SSUSA STAFF - how about another managers poll to see how your customers actually feel about this question???? It worked for the pitchers rule.

Don Newhard
Manager
Nighthawks 55 M+
Feb. 18, 2010
Jawood
Men's 50
798 posts
Playing games close, should not be a criteria in rating teams. Most all games are close! This is because of the five run rule ... which is an excellent equalizer and why, along with the HR limits, Major-plus and Major can be combined with no problem!
Feb. 18, 2010
cyclops
6 posts
You can still play TOC at the level you qualified. S.FLA Heat played at 60AA after being AAA for 11 mos. Qualified at AA, played at AA. You can't just run around picking up anyone you want. They recognize that things change, but there are written down rules on who can add whom.
Feb. 18, 2010
WOW
197 posts
TO WHOMEVER FROM SSUSA THAT RESPONDED TO THIS THREAD." See my above example!

"Teams are moved up when their overall performance statistically indicates they are winning regularly, [NOT TRUE, 1 yr. out of 12],
by larger run margins per game, [NOT TRUE, in their only SSUSA win since 2002, all but 2 games are decided by 1 run, including 1 loss],
"against competition in their ratings group,[same group rating for last 12 yrs.]
"regardless of whether or not the team has won a championship." NOT TRUE.....We were moved up IMMEDIATELY.
Everything I stated above is true and happened to my team!
"Statistical scoring and won loss data etc.......",this all sounds good, and I would agree with that. But that again, IS NOT TRUE."........[2 wins and 17 losses since being moved up].
Also, the "MISCONCEPTION IS THAT A TEAM GETS MOVED UP WITH ANY WIN......." Again, NOT TRUE.
It's not a "misconception", it's a reality.
Again, as I stated earlier, all the above happened to my team.
If the "Statistical scoring and won, loss data" you mentioned, were truly being used, wouldn't mine be an obvious case that should justify a move back down?
Appeal was denied.
Feb. 19, 2010
grumpy55
Men's 60
102 posts
We were AA team up till 2 years ago, got bumped up to AAA after 1st T of year, did not win it. We did win 1 T each year, both 2 team Ts. We accepted it because of more teams in the division. Problem I have is AA teams have beaten us over those couple years and won Ts and no move up for them. Go figure.
Feb. 19, 2010
LP
293 posts
I put a 55 team together in 2007 we knew going in your rated AAA till its seen whayou really have. we did ok playing locally and i thought we had a decent team then we went to phoenix we got clobbered, ok that happens.
So the next year we struggle we couldnt even win a 60's tournament we got put into. soi appeal to get rerated to AA. was told they would look at us after phoenix. I said that would be to late that fell on deaf ears. we go, we get slaughtered. then i get a letter saying that because of our poor performance in 2008 that we are now rated AA. At our age in life you dont want time wasted, 2008 was a wasted year in terms of money for we played at the wrong division. but one team in our state was rated major then dropped down to AAA then to AA, all in the same year. go figure.
Feb. 19, 2010
Paco13
373 posts
I stand by my assertion of a team not the assoc should decide what division you play. We are the customer. Interesting you think that my previous statement is wrong, but it seems to me that everybody is saying the same just with different words. Nobody seems to want the mandatory move ups, isn’t that what I just said, you pay to play where you think that you belong? The sad part is that this argument exists since we were kids and still exists with all the other assoc (Utrip, ASA, NSA, SNA…) check any of the smack boards and that is the main topic. Nothing is going to change sandbaggers will be sandbaggers…and for what? for a stupid ring that you have to buy, how dumb is that play for a ring that you have to buy…I wonder how many of you have 5 or 6 of them…as Forrest Gump said “stupid is what stupid does”…I am done. BP tomorrow and Sun is going to be 55 here in VA Beach. Getting ready to play e-ball, with my C team. LMBO.
Feb. 19, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Paco, that is a nice theory but who is to say teams won't choose to play where they think they can win and not necesarily where they belong competitively?

Sadly, there are far too many guys with far too little pride and will just cherry pick where they can win, even if that means just picking a level where everyone else is overmatched.
Feb. 19, 2010
lemons
Men's 65
302 posts
Playing games close is what we all do. Regardless of the division, I believe that almost any team is capable of competing with another that is a division higher. Maybe they will even beat them every once in a while. However, rules and ratings should be made using generalities and not exceptions. Mel
Feb. 19, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Gary, when are you coming out to play with the old guys?
I would like to meet you.
Feb. 20, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
E, it looks like this year if everything comes through as currently being discussed.
Feb. 20, 2010
docofojai
1 posts
HOW CAN SOME TEAMS PLAY IN THE WORLD CHAMPSHIPS AS AAA AND GO TO THE WINTER WORLDS IN VEGAS AS AA WIN THERE DIVISION AND THEN GO TO THE TOC AS AA
AND JUST WALK THROUGH THE TOURNEY.
Feb. 20, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
The Ojai board was moving the right way...lol
Feb. 22, 2010
Tate22
Men's 55
263 posts
Ojai board???
Feb. 22, 2010
Omar Khayyam
999 posts
Tate22, used my ouija board to determine it is a game manufactured in a tennis mecca in southern California.LOL
Feb. 22, 2010
LP
293 posts
docofojai its kind of simple really some teams that played in phoenix that were rated AAA might have been like the team i played on we got beat up all year long but couldnt get rated AA but after phoenix we got dropped down to AA because of poor play all year long in the AAA division go figure.
the thing about the TOC is whatthe team was rated in the previous year but if they win the winter at a different rating thats what they will play at 14 months later if they keep the same roster. someone tell me if i'm wrong.
Feb. 23, 2010
Brett
Men's 55
239 posts
To SSUSA staff post:
"Other automatic increases are applied to teams that win the year-end National/World Championship of four of the major Senior Softball Summit Organizations, namely ASA, SPA, ISA, and ISSA. And those Champions are moved only when their win comes in larger brackets of more than five teams."

If this is ture, why was Windy City not automaticallhy moved back to major plus after having won the major divison at the 2009 ISA World tournament in which there were 8 teams?
Feb. 24, 2010
smooth01
Men's 50
122 posts
I agree Brett , I believe this is the same team that had "Major Plus" on the back of thier uniforms in Phoenix.I questioned SSUSA about 3 teams last year, after the Phoenix Worlds,that played AAA and were rated Major, and they would not respond, You will most likely have to contact them by phone if you want any info.They won't respond on this site. Good Luck
Feb. 26, 2010
garyheifner
361 posts
I know there will be movement in the 65AA pool of teams. It is the rule, but in my 9 years of senior ball, I have not seen a more level playing field. There were no ringers and in every major tourney we were in, it could easily have had a completely different result if replayed.
Feb. 28, 2010
vinniec
Men's 50
18 posts
Brett,here we go again..having to defend ourselves as to what division we are currently playing!!!!
Windy City Softball has followed every rule and decision that has been implimented for re-rating teams in every Senior Softball Association the last 5 years and to imply otherwise is ludicrous.I know Windy City been a personal pet peeve of yours for years now, but I don't understand the constant concern with us and at what level we participate!!

Windy City has done EVERYTHING we have been asked to do by every organization: SSUSA,SPA,ISSA,USSSA..Namely compete wherever were told to play..

Brett...
This started in 2005, we were successful, we won the 50 Major World in Phoenix and got moved up...But we competed..We weren't happy but we played in every sanctioned Major Plus world/national tournament in 2006 and never won a SINGLE tournament game..We applied to be re-rated for 2007 and it was approved.We played Major and again we were successful. We won in Phoenix and got re-rated to Major Plus for 2008. Again we played All the Major Plus Worlds/Nationals in 2008 and only won 2 tournament games all that year. We applied again and we were not re-rated to Major until 8/09.Bottom line..So we played Major Plus for 2 full years and won 2 games during that time, BUT WE PLAYED...We played in all the MAJOR PLUS worlds and nationals during those 2 years, will you do the same? I know other teams have chosen not to play after they have been bumped to Major Plus how about KC Barons
We did win our 1st Tournament in Nashville after being re-rated last year at the ISA Nationals in a tournament by all accounts was highly competitive and evenly matched,I think even you would have to agree. A tournament in which 3 of our 6 wins were by 1 run . We then went to Phoenix last year and did not even finish in the top 8.This is where you went undefeated and won the 2009 World Championship.

Brett, This year KC Barons will move up and IF you COMPETE at Major Plus in ALL the National/World Tournaments and don't win a game all year then you too can apply to be re rated next year..The exact same method we used to be re-rated.
My only comment to you would be to COMPETE and see what happens..We will do the same and play wherever they tell us to play.. Look forward to seeing and competing against you guys this year.
Brett, Good Luck this year..
Sorry for using the word "compete" so much but just trying to make a point..Wherever your told to play.PLAY

Smooth01- Yes the jersey's that we wore in Phoenix did say [Major Plus] which a sponsor got us while we were playing Major Plus earlier in the year before we were re-rated.But I really don't understand the issue with that!!!

My simple response to this discussion: Combine Major and Major Plus into one division with inning and homerun limits with a couple other possible equalizers and take all the guess work and complaining out of it..

Vinnie
Windy City
Feb. 28, 2010
Bob50
Men's 60
240 posts
Vinnie, I agree. Combine Major and Major Plus in all age brackets.
March 1, 2010
Brett
Men's 55
239 posts
Vinniec, nothing personal...I'm sorry you took it that way. I was simply asking a question pertaining to the SSUSA's official response earlier in the post. Our team won an ISA world tournament at the AAA level and was automatically bumped up the following year. We revised our team accordingly and have been competing at the major level since. Yes, we won the SSUSA worlds last year and will now be playing major plus. We will be giving it our best try and will see how it goes. As you know, unfortunately there are very few major plus teams in the midwest to compete with. We have no sponsor, so we will travel and play in what we can afford. I was simply questoning why every team does not get bumped under the same rules that applied to our team. I happened to use your team (sorry) as one example of the inconsistency that exists in the rating of teams following a national tournament. I am one that believes there should only be two divisions in each age category, like USSSA does it.
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Senior Softball-USA is dedicated to informing and uniting the Senior Softball Players of America and the World. Senior Softball-USA sanctions tournaments and championships, registers players, writes the rulebook, publishes Senior Softball-USA News, hosts International Softball Tours and promotes Senior Softball throughout the world. More than 1.5 million men and women over 40 play Senior Softball in the United States today. »SSUSA History  »Privacy policy

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