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Discussion: Ratings

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April 19, 2010
starburst23
Men's 60
44 posts
Ratings
I know this has been discussed before. With the debate of AAA and Major, over the last couple of years playing against teams in both classes the gap is very small between the two. Why not try a few tournaments playing them both in the same bracket and see where all the teams end up. I believe you will find that the majority of the AAA teams can play straight up with most of the Major teams. I would like to see some ideas on the subject.
April 19, 2010
Corky
Men's 55
446 posts
Actually I've found more similarity with the major / major + teams. The majority of senior players are in the AAA division. 3 divisions in my opinion would be acceptable. (AA, AAA,& Major)
April 19, 2010
Paco13
366 posts
Corky, You are absolutely correct, there is no need for this glorified M+ ranking. At least on the East coast there are only but a hand full of 50M+ teams and very rarely do they all show up for the limited tourneys that we have on this coast. The other problem that those teams run into is when they play M teams that they have to give 5 runs (equalizer) and abide by the lower team HR rules. You can count on at least 7-10 hrs for outs from these teams when playing by the M rules. How much fun can they have playing the same 1-2 teams everytime. With the senior bats we all can hit HRs, so the difference become line drive hitters, who can hit the most singles, doubles...Egos will be egos...Three divisions is all what is needed, make it 7 HRs to equalize everything for the M and M+ levels.
April 19, 2010
Jawood
Men's 50
794 posts
Back to this again! I will chime in anytime somebody brings this up. Paco and Corky are so correct! There are even less teams on the West Coast! Major-plus is a joke, the 5 runs an inning and 5 homeruns are equalizer enough to combine the two divisions. The only team that is head and shoulders above the rest out here is the Mavericks, why do we have to have a separate division for them? Because that what it is. The Mavericks are the Yankees, it's fun to try to compete with them and it's great if you can knock them off once in a while!

If the Major and Major-plus was combined it would give us two divisions of equal teams numbers wise(Major and AAA) with the AA for the lower level. I have never talked with a player that is against this, it is so simple!
April 19, 2010
Tate22
Men's 55
259 posts
Can't say it any better than the last three posts(Corky, Paco, Jawood). Get rid of Major Plus, three divisions is enough.
April 27, 2010
canIjack
Men's 60
322 posts
Why are there three times the number of Major Plus & Major teams in So Cal than there are in Northern Cal? All I see are AA and AAA coming out the North. And how can you move a team up from Major to Plus when they have NEVER won a Qualifier in either division in 6 years with the same men that has always been there. I don't get it. These guys that make up these loop sided divisions are they all Republicans or are their Hoods turn around the wrong way or too tight on their heads and they can’t think right. This Ass o ci at ion . Is sooo wrong. Come on SCSSA!
April 27, 2010
canIjack
Men's 60
322 posts
1 more thing…………Back last year in the Winter National in Las Vegas. In the Major Div. West Coast were Double Dipped and Lost by 25 or more run in the final game. West Coast was moved up(same players)to 55 Major Plus. While Double Play remains 55 Major. Man is this a B ll sh Ass o ci ation or what? All we ask is for is to be given a FAIR playing field. Well Tom H what type of lie can you come up with NOW, to justify this bucket of sh . No Snot.
May 1, 2010
Jawood
Men's 50
794 posts
The problem would be solved by combining Major and Major-plus, canljack. All teams (in those two divsions) would be Major. The ones that show a bit more strength would have to give runs. If they show they are having trouble winning with this handicap, they would get the + taken a away from them.

It would not be such a big deal getting moved up or down within the same division. One week a team may play with a + by their name and the next they may get it taken away.
May 1, 2010
curveball
Men's 65
400 posts
Skill level between Major and Major+ too great to be conbined. But, you could lenghten the age group, 50-57, 58-65. 65 and over should remain as is.
May 1, 2010
Jawood
Men's 50
794 posts
In my opinion, it's not at all. In the Spring Nationals in Florida, one Major-plus team played with the Majors in the tournament and had to give runs and hit down to 5 HR's, they finished third. One tournament, yes but I would say this would happen around 50% of the time, which is ideal.
May 1, 2010
titanhd
Men's 50
331 posts
starburst23 Perhaps the association is listening.Check the brackets for INDY this weekend.Brackets are just as you suggested.
May 1, 2010
curveball
Men's 65
400 posts
Qualifier at BLD in Cathederal City CA last weekend, Major+ team wins it after spotting 5 runs, they won it by another 5/ Perhaps in various parts of the nation the two are closer.
May 1, 2010
Jawood
Men's 50
794 posts
Major-plus teams ARE entitled to win when they earn it! An equalizer is just a way they can both play in the same division.
May 1, 2010
Duke
Men's 60
713 posts
All of the above statements are the same as before. I respect those comments, but we need to find another approach here. I do not know what might be the best way to go here, nor have all of the answers. I have played 50's, 55's, and now 60's and occasionally playing for a younger team. There is a distinct difference between Major and Major+ teams in the 50's and 55's. At least on the West Coast. I have not played too many 60 tournaments to make a fair analysis of this age group.

We can talk about equalizers all you want like home run limits(which by the way Paco, should be 5, not 7 to accomodate the Major team, not the Major+ team), giving 5 runs, and/or allowing an extra fielder. After playing 10 years in Senior softball tournaments, I know what is what and how things work. I may not like it all, but we are here to play, have fun, get some exercise, and make friends. I totally enjoy the overall experience. I am unfortunately getting too old to argue about this anymore. SSUSA cannot please us all, but will please the majority, and for the most part, try to do things right MOST of the time. Besides the equalizers that have been discussed many times, there is only one real equalizer, that I have seen work over and over again in the past 10 years. It is the crappy ball and crappy bat tournament(Huntington Beach), where AAA, Major, and Major+ all play in the same division, and anyone could win and no equalizers are given or taken.

Lastly, I still emphasize with those teams that play in 2-3 team tournaments. Sounds like a waste of time and money and unfortunate. Like I said above, SSUSA will try to do what is best for all concerned, which includes themselves. If they opt to combine divisions and force lesser quality teams to play against teams that are much more talented, then you will have too many teams play elsewhere or disband. That would cause less $$$$ for the organization, unhappy teams and players, and a few more Major+ teams. That is not to say that some Major teams vould not compete well with the correct equalizer. This will just not happen. Everywhere you go there will be teams protected or that are favorites and will not get bumped up. This is either because they are not noticed and never win a huge tournament and only win a few small ones(which is OK). There are teams that will never get bumped up, because they play so many tournaments during the year, and if moved up, will leave and play in another organization(and there are many of them this year), and lost revenue is too costly. SSUSA is still the best organization around, and like all of us, and like the world we live in, nothing is going to be perfect. We will strive to make it better, but no reason to fight it so much with the same arguments, that go in one ear and out the other most of the time.


I do not claim to have the right answer, but an answer that might work for the combining of Major/Major+ teams is to use the crappy bat and ball combo, but does the majority really want to do that? I also think that with about 4 organizations in Southern Cslifornia, that teams in some classifications and/or age groups are being thinned out. The thread about asking which Major+ teams are attending a particular tournament is the positive way to go, if more of the teams would respond.

For you Major+ teams, I really do emphasize with you. My team has only played 2 different teams in our age and level in the past 4 months. Where are all of the 60 Major teams???????? Please leave a message on this board, so we can play some other teams.

Just My Opinions!

Andy Smith,
Double Edge,
60 Major
May 1, 2010
Jawood
Men's 50
794 posts
I am just trying to advocate a system where we can have a good number of teams competing. Duke, playing only 2 different teams since January is a joke, no way should they be making you do that, but I guess it's better than not playing at all. I understand that there is even less teams in the 55's than the 60's.

We are a 50 Major team and don't care about getting five runs when we didn't earn them. If we have to play someone like the Mavericks, who cares? we will give it our best shot ... it's competition!

Throw Major and Major-plus together in these tournaments leading up to the worlds in Phoenix, then separate them.
May 2, 2010
Duke
Men's 60
713 posts
Just so it is clear, my team has only played 2 other 60 Major teams since January. One tournament, we played a 50 Major(that should be Major+), a 55 Major+, a 60 Major, and two 60 Major+. Some of these teams that were younger and/or higher classifications, just kept the games close as they saw fit to do so. They either paced themselves and/or did not utilize their better players during our games. I do not want to play under those conditions. In another tournament, we had to spot runs to every team, except one other 60 Major team. We played teams that were AA or teams just bumped up from AA. I found the entire experience quite boring and not challenging. The only good thing was to see friends from the days when I played in those divisions, and nice to have the practice. I do not know how a Major+ team could enjoy playing a AAA/Major team, just because it is a different team, at least not on a regular basis. Just not that much fun for either team. I actually felt like our team at times was fielding batting practice for these teams. I can do that at home without the travel and cost.

There are not as many teams as you may think in SSUSA. There are teams listed in duplicate, and there are many teams that do not exist any longer. I emailed a list of the ones that I know to SSUSA, but they are still there.

I believe that there would be more teams playing in a particular tournament in the same classification, if the teams communicate and make an effort to do it. This would make a better tournament for all of the teams.

I am expecting and hoping for a big turnout in the upcoming Reno tournament for the 60 Major group. Look forward to meeting some other teams.

Andy Smith,
Double Edge,
60 Major
May 2, 2010
DoubleL10
Men's 65
821 posts
Andy, I can certainly sympathize with your concerns about a lack of teams to play. Our 60 Major Plus team (Boaz/ASI) broke up around this time last year. We had NO ONE to play in our age group for the 2+ years we had a team until we went to Nationals. We usually got stuck playing Hendricks 50 Major Plus team out of Texas or other younger teams - usually with no equalizers. It was a joy last year when we put together a combination of AAA and M+ guys to form a 60 Major team (OK Turf Pro). That team has now disbanded and most of us are with Texas 60s. There are two other 60 Major teams in this area that we see at local tourneys. Patriots USA are out of OK and a team now called DOC (last year Carriage Homes) out of Arkansas. Hopefully, you will see all of us sooner or later. We do plan on being in Gallatin, Dalton and Phoenix this year.
May 2, 2010
curveball
Men's 65
400 posts
Andy, Unfortunately, there aren't very many of us in 60's Major on SoCal. As the season wears on, you'll most likely swee 4 teams at the regional events. you, Heat, Gusto, and Top Gun. Don't know what's going on with the Braves. There are several on NorCal, but the economy has a lot of teams cutting down on travel.
The best senario you'll find, is going to be in Reno and at the Cal Cup. Both are in the North and us SoCal guys are going. With Robson from AZ, we should see 8 or more in Reno. (Top Gun has been waiting for many injuries to heal)
If you need to know a couple of teams schedules, I know Tony from the Heat and Carl from Top Gun would share with you. What 2 tournaments did you go to that had only 2 60 Majors. There were several last week at BLD, I know Gusto, Robson, and the Heat were there for sure. If we communicate as you advocate, we may get better turnout for the division. It makes more sense than each of us going to different tourneys on different weekends. It makes our travel dollar more worthwhile for sure.
May 2, 2010
Duke
Men's 60
713 posts
Curveball,

Thanks! Our team is going to about one tournament a month, except the months where we are going to play a big tournament, like Reno. In those months, we go to another tournament to get ready for the bigger tournament. Our coach is in contact a lot with Gusto Larry. Our next tournament is in Santa Maria May 15-16. Reno the end of the month over Memorial weekend, June 26-27 at Camp Pendleton, July in Morro Bay some time, August 13-15 is the Cal Cup. That is all I know for sure. September we might be going to LVSSA, then a small one before Phoenix Worlds.

This is exactly why I do not care to play Major+ or Major, because there are so many other teams to play in AAA. This is why I supplement my schedule by playing with 50/55 AAA teams.

The other comment you made about where are the Braves. There is no more Braves. They are spread amongst other teams. This is why SSUSA should update their lists.

If it does not improve in the next 6-7 months, then it may not be worth the time and money to play in tournaments. Our team could just have pickup games with the Palm Springs Heat and Gusto, and save a lot of time and money. We could add D & K and GSF and anyone else into the mix too. As long as we are not spending our hard earned money, I do not really care who we play. I believe we already did this once in a centrally located park, and it was good. Our team cannot afford to travel East, so we have limited ourselves.

Andy Smith,
Double Edge,
60 Major

May 2, 2010
birdie
Men's 60
681 posts
Larry, We may get to see you either in Dalton or Phoenix this year. (NV Force). Tudor, Randy Lewis, (B Rice Phoenix only maybe) a few more that you may recognize. Should be fun!!!!
Thanks Harry
May 2, 2010
DoubleL10
Men's 65
821 posts
Harry, Looking forward to it! I saw Tudor, Randy Lewis, Mad Dog, Billy Cameron, Jim Wheatley, Kevin Farley and several other old friends/teammates last year when they played in the 50s for IMS Dogs. What age and class are y'all playing?
May 3, 2010
birdie
Men's 60
681 posts
Larry, Lewis and myself strictly 60s (major). the rest of them are playing 50s with the dogs. Tudor and rice will play with us when there is not conflicting schedules. We thought Tudor was going to give up playing with the young guys but I guess not. The rest of them are not 60 yet. Thanks Harry
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