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Discussion: SHAVED BATS?

Posted Discussion
May 17, 2010
ricky33
37 posts
SHAVED BATS?
we just played our first senior tournament ever this weekend. i need to ask this question. if you dont know for sure, dont answer. i thought i was getting away from shaved bats. but this weekend, the teams we played hit the hardest and some the farthest balls i have seen in a while. my infielders didnt have time to react to most grounders. homeruns were reaching 370 feet when they hit the ground. will someone please inform me on what is going on. we bought a new ultra and it wasnt producing anything like the teams we were against. we hit 1 home run in 6 games. we play 50's. i would bet a dollar to a donut they were illegal bats. i need to hear some thoughts and opinions. thanks for your reply. just a little frustrated right now.
May 17, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
First, it would help if you had a name.
It so much easier to confide in someone
as opposed to no one
as in no one of any importance.

I don't know a senior who has a bat shaved or end loaded.
I suspect there might be a few.
We need to start going after cheaters/cheating, else,
little by little
more guys might drift over
to the DARK side.
It's not hard for a real power hitter to reach 370 with a good ball and a good broken in bat and a little farther with a lot of wind.

A bunch of us saw Mike Burbank
hit a ball
well over 500 feet in Las Vegas
a few years back
with a stock Ultra 2.
If you knew Mike and wind conditions
in Vegas you'd know that's really not a stretch, at all.
I've seen Ken Van Bogart hit balls
450 plus over and over again
for 2 days in Seattle with stock
30 oz Ultra 2's.
If you faced a team that hit like that
it was probably
a major plus hitting team.

I've been blessed to play on a couple of Major plus squads where everyone in the line up, could take it downtown.
That's not that uncommon.
Lastly, for now, what separates major from major plus clubs is the quality of pitching.
Some players think all you do in senior ball is throw strikes and don't walk guys.
Nothing could be farther from the truth.
Major plus hitters hit strikes like
it's batting practice and it usually means when you get squashed by a good major plus club is,
their pitcher was nasty and
yours was just OK.
A very good major plus pitcher
can keep big hitting monsters from
being comfortable when they swing,
especially when there's a lot of wind.
My guess is they were a major plus club
and they had a monster on the mound.

May 17, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Here we go again.

If they dont have a registered name they are of no importance? Einy listen to yourself, you are a very intelligent man with a lot to say, common my friend see the light.
A name doesnt make an opinion any less important or valuable to this community.
We need more guys willing to post their ideas and questions, regardless of who they are or what their names are.
You degrade your good info by taking this stance.

May 17, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
You're clueless, E.
Accountability may not be required by law
but it is essential to our community
for credibility.
May 17, 2010
Swampy
24 posts
To maybe help answer your question---did you purchase an Ultra 2 with a warranty? I know it was the first bat I purchased and the results were nothing like the Ultra 2 with no warranty. Yes, you will see many homeruns that travel 370+ with legal senior bats!
May 17, 2010
ricky33
37 posts
first of all, thanks for the comments. maybe they were major plus, gathering all of the info i can. we really liked playing this weekend. there was no arguing and every team was a class act. maybe we were just out of our class a bit much. looking forward to more tournaments and chatting on here. thanks, guys, ricky
May 17, 2010
Omar Khayyam
994 posts
Ricky,

Thanks for your input. Hope the answers were satisfying.

As to identifying yourself, there is absolutely NO requirement. It is a personal hangup of einstein that to remain anonymous is to have no validity. If you do reveal more, you may find he can get very personal (evidently with direct emails beyond the scope of this forum). No one else in two years on this forum has agreed with him on this issue.

As a matter of actual count, more than half the posters on this board are not identified. einstein says he knows almost all of them anyhow, but most regulars see through that bluster.

Welcome to senior softball with your 50s team.
May 17, 2010
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
ricky33 ............If you just bought an Ultra 2 for the first time, you are right, you were overmatched. The teams that you played have probable been swinging senior bats for some time. You're going to need more than one senior bat to play SSUSA.
May 17, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Ricky.
You sound like a good guy
and avid softballer.
There's something unmanly and missing
when an adult male deliberately
hides his/her identity when speaking his/her opinion or
being critical of others,
especially when being critical
of others.
It doesn't matter if it's technically
legal or not, it's an unwritten rule
of responsible adult conduct and a majority opinion and you need to know that about us, going forward.
To be or not to be, Ricky.
80 per cent of the guys who post
are known players, having revealed themselves in one manner, way, shape or form.
Any comment you make being an identifiable member of our community
carries validity and credibility
and helps make friends, teach and influence people.
It's positive act but staying anonymous
amounts to little more than masturbation,
getting yourself off
while doing no one else
any real good.
May 17, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
well being as self centered as you are joey,i can see a dumb azz comment from you like this to ricky33.who gives a flying @#$* who he is.he came up with a valid question and comment.
and again you've answer why we don't need this stupidly hot equipment to play senior softball.why do people think they need to hit balls over 400' to have it be fun,how about some defense being played.
maybe you and your boys need to go hit on the long haul bombers tour.
May 18, 2010
Omar Khayyam
994 posts
Ricky, another thing you will learn is that einstein has a thing for "majority opinion" which surprise! surprise! always agrees with him. He has never documented any of these "majorities," but they are real in his mind.

It's easy enough to check. Do what I did. I went back through about 100 topics, wrote down all the handles, checked them all out, and 55% were anonymous. Again, it is only in einstein's mind that this anonymous majority of "80%" is "revealed" and that they agree with him.

A final thing you will discover, if you disagree with him, and produce a better argument, is that he will quickly resort to name-calling. Look at his last two posts above and count the slurs and name-calling: "clueless", "unmanly", "missing", "[ir]responsible", "[in]valid", "[non]credible", "masturbator"...

einstein is a great softball player and has a lot to offer and contribute about our game, but his tendency to demean and insult those who disagree with him has cost him most supporters on this forum, in my opinion. Again, just look back through the archives and count the number of people who attack him, disagree with his tactics, or mock him and you will see some evidence for my opinion.
May 18, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Mad Dog is Robert.
We disagree, Ricky.
But Robert doesn't hide or want to hide
himself from view.
We have mutual friends.
The universe is big enough for us.
Someday, maybe we'll shake hands
and have a laugh at all that's been said.
That will never happen with the coward
who uses Omar Khayam.
Gutless, non responsible
and not be taken seriously on anything
about anything or anyone
and most of us feel the same way.
No name, no game.
May 18, 2010
Rudy
Men's 55
24 posts
Ilove coming to this board to read about the state of senior softball. Although I no longer play (I played 4 yrs with Robert's Construction) I still follow the game. The only thing that bothers me about the board is Einstein. I feel sorry for you. According to most posts, I understand that you are an outstanding player, but as a person, I have never heard someone as bitter as you. What happened in your life that has made you think that your opinion is the only one that is right? I hope this is all an act just to invoke discussion. But if is is not, you should seek help for your "God complex". Agian, I feel so sorry for you.
May 18, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
And so predictable.
May 18, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
A lot of people would say that we suffer in 2010 America from having been loosed from our moorings,
our fundamental values
our once simple definition of what it means to be a vital, valuable and contributing member of our society,
any society and I'd be one.
I think anonymity represents
a part of the slide,
the abdication by responsible/knowing members of society from standing in
and up for decisions that have been
and are being made so others can weigh in for and against important issues
and real things can be done to solve
real problems.
Anonymity, as most of us still do feel,
I would hazard, is "less than" what it takes to bring to effect any real change
when change and direction are both sought after and necessary for the benefit and positive movement of any
society.
So, to me, I'm willing to talk about and deal with the more fundamental, more basic
aspects of our difficulty finding solutions to very real problems like
bat/ball deterioration, cheating,
what to leave in/out of standards
for the playing of our game.
You can call me old fashioned
for demanding
that we all be accountable for ourselves
when making comments and criticisms
regarding one another but as anyone
who's seen me lately would evidence
don't call me late for dinner.
I have tons of guys/players/friends
who support me taking stands and "showing up" for what I think is going down both right and wrong
and sometimes I might go to far
and when I do, I apologize or should
whenever it happens.
I think real debate is positive
and stimulates all of us
to think about, feel and react to
and hopefully someday solve
problems we face, especially the ones
we and self interested others
create for ourselves.
I call 'em like I see 'em, son.
Win, lose or draw.
May 18, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Anonymity is a kind of depersonalization
that happens in a society like ours
that renders it's members
impotent, lack luster, leaderless
and lifeless,
I forgot to add...
May 18, 2010
Rudy
Men's 55
24 posts
I am not anonymous. Check out my profile. You should be able to figure out my name. I believe my e-mail address is listed also. I just think you are too full of yourself most of the time. If there are any friends of Einstein on this board, as he speaks of, please let me know. It seems most of the people that visit this board are not.
May 18, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
You believe incorrectly, Rudy
that your email is available
and no, I don't have a clue who are.
Bogie, is this you,
you old rattlesnake?
Seriously, Bog, if you're out there, how you hitting 'em.
How's your hammy coming along?
Mine's in it's 3rd year and still coming around little by little.
May 18, 2010
Rudy
Men's 55
24 posts
My name is Rudy Korsmo.
Email is: rkorsmo259@yahoo.com

Unfortunately, I played for Roberts before Bogie joined the team. I last played in 2004.
May 18, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hi Rudy,
I think the world of Bogie.
I know and like some of the present day
Robert's guys.
They're a terrific team, competitive
and fun to play against.
Last tournament I was in against them
they beat us en route to the championship
without Bogie who is an elite senior softball hitter.
It's funny, too because I've played against them with Bogie any number of times and they never seemd to do
as good.
(hee, hee Bogeeeee)
You can email me anytime
at joerinaldi56@yahoo.com
if there's anything you want to discuss
or say to me.
May 18, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
with it to do all over again,i would not have listed my name for public view in my profile.i got onto this at the very beginning when we didn't have all the crap going on(members emailing other members to provoke crap and such,like you do joey),so like i said if i had known the crap that comes with it,i would of never put myself out there for all to view.
rudy you have open up a can of worms.
oh and joey still doesn't know who i am anyways,just his way of being able to send crap to you.
May 18, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Be careful, Robert.
You're going above and beyond the call
of your normally ignorant and personally offensive views
and that's not easy to do
and you just may explode
into the oblivion from whence you came
and saying you'd rather be anonymous really says a lot about
your (lack of) character
Remember, being a character and having character aren't necessarily connected.
May 18, 2010
Rudy
Men's 55
24 posts
Mad Dog,

I am just curious on who Einstein really is on a personal level. If he is who you say he is, then I have brought on anything he says about me to my e-mail on myself. I have invited him to respond to me to see if he really is as hateful to those who disagree with him as has been stated many on this board. You van believe me, if he sends me any e-mails that I deem inappropriate, i will be the first to share it on this board. I am not afraid of Einstein and I don't think I should be. As stated before, I just really want to find out if he is as bad as everyone says he is. I raed his posts & sometimes I think he is just passing the time of the day trying to invoke responses from the board. I am sure he is opinionated but I think a lot of it is just bluff. Soory for my rambling.
May 18, 2010
Rudy
Men's 55
24 posts
And misspellings.
May 18, 2010
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
Why would you post something that is personal between Joe and yourself?
May 18, 2010
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
It's like wrestling with a pig in the mud, after awhile, you realize, the pig loves it !
May 18, 2010
Rudy
Men's 55
24 posts
Salio2k,

What I meant to say is if he attacks me in a personal e-mail, I will relay that to the board to give credance to what some of the posters in the past have said about Einstein attacking them. I want to find out what they say about Einstein is true. I really do not expect to receive anything from him. I am sorry if I am out of line.
May 18, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
rudy i understand where your coming from,i thought you had a very good post and it had nothing to do whether or not i knew who you were,oh and i still don't know who you even tho you have posted your name and email.now does that make your post any better or worse,no it does not.
as you see here he has no problem in calling someone ignorant and other names because they don't agree with him.

oh joey boy,or is that cabin boy...i could care less what you think of me or anyone else who refuses to put their name out for public view,your a nothing in this society.like i have said before show me where message boards require to have personal info for public view to join or use.
May 18, 2010
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
Rudy..He's not going to attack you. What if Joe sends you love letters? Are you then going to say that these people that don't like him are wrong?
May 18, 2010
Omar Khayyam
994 posts
Rudy, I certainly don’t hate einstein, and as I have often pointed out on this forum, I admire him as a player and enjoy watching him and playing against him. You may be right that it is bitterness that drives a lot of his posts.

I do feel sorry for him since he can’t resist his impulses. For example, I pointed out that he creates fictional “majorities” and also easily slips into name-calling. So what does he do on his very next post? Commits both of these faults!

The latest names are “coward”, “gutless”, “not to be taken seriously”, and then comes the fictional majority: “most of us feel the same way”. Who is this “most”? So far, everyone who has posted has defended the option of anonymity on a public post. This is not a government debate, or an important social issue where sides are taken, or even “real problems” as he terms them, this is a softball forum and being anonymous is anyone’s privilege.

By the way, I am anonymous to einstein because I was warned not to get personal in order not to receive unwanted email, but I am not anonymous to many posters and readers of this forum, some of whom email me directly to talk about softball issues...and other things.
May 18, 2010
Rudy
Men's 55
24 posts
Like I said I feel sorry for him & I thought if he would take the time to see what others think of him, maybe he would see the errors of his way. As my mother always told me you attract more bees with honey than vinegar. I was hoping that instead of being so offensive, he would respect other opinions and not force his on all of us. I think it is a waste of time to have people attack each other on these forums instead of just sticking with the topic. I know he is never going to respond. I guess I was just hoping by hearing a new voice, he would reflect upon himself and change his ways. I guess I am an optimist, not a realist. I am sorry if I offended anyone.
May 18, 2010
tattooball
614 posts
Rudy we have a file of emails from this insignificant menace. It will happen unless he has truely changed. I highly doubt this but who knows, maybe he fell and bumped his head and forgot what a dolt he is.
May 18, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
You guys are hysterical.
Bobby, Kev, Kenny, Rudy and Noman and
yes Noman even in this grouping,
four out of 5 or 80 per cent
have what it takes stand up
and sign in for themselves.
You're not even in the ball park, sir or madam, OK, OK?

Issues guys.
It's about showing up and talking
to and about issues
that affect us, all of us.
It's about debate and expressing
opinions about topics important to all of us so we can learn, contribute,
resolve issues and grow together.

I've said it a million times.
We're all one community here
and I don't want or have a problem with anyone who doesn't want or
have a problem with me.
I don't think anyone has a right,
the human right,
to criticize anyone else
publicly without standing in
for his or herself and it happens
a lot on this site.
I think and believe this is unmanly,
disrespectful and wrong
and I also feel that most players/members agree with me.
As and if I hurt or have hurt anyone
wrongly I am and will always be sorry.
But I will speak out,
against or for any issues that are important to seniors or senior softball.



May 18, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4359 posts
Far too many have not posted in awhile or allowed to, or get edited out. Site is great bet one is restricted, even it some is justified.
It's a good place to vent.
May 18, 2010
ricky33
37 posts
hey guys, i really didn't mean to start arguments. i am a christian and i was never intending on criticizing anyone. actually, my shaved bats topic had a question mark behind it. i was only asking if there were illegal bats around. this was our first tournament ever. i was really looking forward to playing with mature and honest 50 year olds. last year with the young guys, i know for a fact there was shaved and painted up bats everywhere. i really thought i was getting away from that. i would hate to see any player get seriously hurt or killed over a ball game. i started playing softball in 1973 and have played extensively every year since. i know how bats should perform. after all of that, i will admit i am not positive on the other teams using illegal bats. thats why i was only asking what i thought was a fair question. i just miss the ole days with the single wall bats where there were a lot of defensive plays. l love the double plays and infielders diving for balls and making outstanding defensive plays. doesnt you guys miss that. we didnt turn a double play in six games. the balls were hit to hard and fast to react to. and we have a pretty good team. all i really wanted to know was if many teams used illegal bats and if they did, we will not be able to compete against them with our bats. i have yet had anyone tell me honestly if players do or do not use them. my last question would be, why do people use illegal bats and wouldnt they be more of a man, if they played the game by the rules. thanks, ricky
May 18, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Ricky,
That's a pretty stock set of statements
that tend to appear over and over again
and you not signing for whoever you are
begs the question who are you and/or
are you the same guy all the time
who's saying all these things
using different aliases for either mayhem
or acute self interest.
I don't believe or trust what anyone
on this site has to say who doesn't/won't show up for the real person, man or woman
they in fact are.
It's that simple.
There's a lot of interest in what goes on inside senior ball.
There's a lot of money at stake
to be lost or gained and some guys
will just manipulate the rules
if the get a chance, just like the politicians and bankers who tend to run our society.
So, I don't care what's legal because in the world of REAL men and woman,
just like Nancy and Dave Dowell
and Kevin, Gary Sommers, Scott Tait,
and the great majority of others
in our community who identify themselves
as they really are
we can only trust those who are willing
to be accountable for their views
and actions.
It's really quite simple, isn't it.
Common sense, isn't it.
Learned first in Kindegarten,
first day of class.
"When I call on you,
stand up and tell everyone your name".
C'mon man.
May 18, 2010
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
einstein,
Your a disgrace to softball, PERIOD !!! I know and understand your a really good player...but enough is enough ! You have e-mailed me and even called me once.......and when I read your crap, I get sick to my stomach !
Can you not get the hint, nobody on this board cares about you "softball knowledge" or in this and many other cases..cares about what you say............give it a break.......go take a vacation !!!Try tennis!
May 18, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Thanks, Kenny Ray 60 and over
from somewhere in Texas.
I'm sixty and over, too.
Have we played against each other?
We really disagree about some fundamental issues, Ken.
I don't think you're a disgrace to softball, just wrong on some of the issues.
Sad you have to make it personal
but knock yourself out, son.
Email me or contact me anytime
if you like and I'll be glad to share
more of myself and my opinions with you.
We both just might learn a thing or two,
Kenny.
May 18, 2010
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
As I said you called me once to discuss the issues........and things seem to be ok, but you just will not give it a rest.........I wished you would go back and read all you 1981 posts, and see if you even agree with yourself !BTW, It's Spicewood,Texas, like it says on my profile..and all my information is on there.......also, was going to play against you, but ya'll won your game and we didn't...and I was really looking forward to playing against you.maybe someday !
May 18, 2010
Omar Khayyam
994 posts
Ricky, welcome to a growing group of guys who also yearn for the balanced game, not only in fielding, but in base running, strategy, etc. Somehow, the egoists who live for the long ball have persuaded many associations to allow the super hot "senior" bat—to the detriment of the balanced game.

I, too, would like to go back to a single wall, if that is what it takes, for more balance in our game. The other option is to dumb down the ball which most guys don't favor, or as einstein has proposed, put up a screen in front of the pitcher to protect him and then slam away with even hotter bats and balls. The screen, of course, does nothing to return the infielders to a meaningful participation in defense, or even the outfielders who are already playing 320 feet deep on some fields and still watch balls sail over the fence with the hot bats.

Keep lobbying and we'll try to change the game back to the one we enjoyed for decades before the advent of the composite bats less than ten years ago. So far, only one person has said they wouldn't play if their hot bats were taken away (guess who?).

BTW, I figured you were a Christian by your humble tone and attempt to help, but now of course you are suspect as a phony by einstein because you consistently disagree with him. He has already accused you of self-interest (whatever that could be) and soon you will be called "ignorant."
May 18, 2010
Dbax
Men's 60
1267 posts
Reference shaved bats....I prefer mine hairy.
May 18, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
DBAX,i would think there in az you would like them shaved with the heat and all LOL.

ricky stay anonymous,it will save you a lot of grief from this clown.your post was great and yes you asked a very good question.as far as anyone using dirty bats,well i really don't know,but as they say"they that protest the most on having to use our hot equipment most prolly are the biggest offenders".
i'm with you on bringing some reality back into the game,defense and such.some will argue that it wqill only invite cheaters even more if we back off on the bats we use now,and i have an answer to that,its the 52-275 ball as no bat is superior in preformance to any other,and that includes the cheater bats.this ball will allow the hr hitters to be hr hitters and will take away the wannabes(the mishit hrs)and bring some D back into the game.the ones who don't want this cringe at the thought they might have to play defense and not just have a hr derby going on instead of a real game.
now for this thought of mine,i'll be called an ignorant sob,self centered a-hole.what i really am is someone who doesn't want to see another 55 yr old killed like the father of 6 in virginia about 6 weeks back. if thats what makes me all of those,so be it,i would do that then see another fellow softballer lost b/c we have to have the hottest equipment around to have "FUN".
May 18, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Ho hum.
More unoriginal whining drivel
from he Usual non-spects.
Time to play checkers with Kevin
or go lawn bowling with grandpa,
guys and gals,
and let the rest of us have a good time
playing the game we love to play
hitting the crap out of the ball
and running around like we was all in fourth grade, again.
See you all in Sparks in 2 weeks.
May 19, 2010
titanhd
Men's 50
329 posts
ASA & NSA has told the manufactures that starting 1/1/12 they can't manufacture any bats for them that don't have a tamper proof end cap.

ASA & NSA championship play will no longer allow multilayer balls after this season .Using 44/400
May 19, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Joe, who are you going to Reno with?
May 19, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4359 posts
titanhd,
Where there is a will they will find a way. About the only two things to work I see is a dye pack inside to go off if cap is removed or an embedded chip which I know was being worked on but I doubt will be realized overall. Cost to get and receiver to check for aren't cheap.
They are like the ones you implant in animals but could be made smaller yet.
May 19, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4359 posts
My bet is with MTC-60's
May 19, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
and cabin boy what is so original about your posts"i want to play with the hottest equipment made or i won't play",not a thing.at least i care for my fellow softball player and you don't care if someone is killed or seriously injured,its "who cares" from you.
May 19, 2010
Proudtex40
57 posts
Mad Dog,living here and playing against George Crisp (Sterling, VA) in the past I can tell you that the bat and ball combination were both ASA approved and neither were "hot". It was an unfortunate accident and a great man (and I mean a great man) was taken from his family and friends. Since I've semi-retired from the competitive teams I played for (all Major Plus teams to include Fergie's which is still talked about I'm told) I don't get real involved in the various posts on this website. I will comment though that I've played against Joe and he is without doubt one of the best players in senior softball as I'm sure alot of you are as well. As for the hot bat & ball combination I have to agree with several of you in your comments. I truly miss the days of the single wall bats and GOOD balls. Back then home run hitters hit home runs and base hitters hit base hits....and defense made the difference in a lot of games. The biggest issue we had to deal with was microwaved softballs. I MISS THE OLD DAYS! My intent is not to offend anyone, but I just wanted to share my thoughts. Good luck to all of you this year.
May 19, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
proudtex,that it is what i'm talking about,it was lesser equipment than what the seniors are allowed to use now,just imagine how fast a ball can be hit with our hot bat/ball combo we use.yes it was unfortunate accident and i don't want to see it happen in senior ball or again any where else,and with this hot combo it will happen.
yes i know joe and have played with him and against him when i lived in cali.
yes i would like to see a game played again instead of the hr derby it has become myself.
May 19, 2010
Proudtex40
57 posts
Mad Dog, chances are we've played against each other somewhere in the past. Although I played in a local league (with the youngsters) the one tournament I did play in I used an Ultra and I hit a ball that I'm told went about 375' to 400'. Unfortunately it was an out since we had hit our limit, but the thing that pissed me off was that I swung down on the ball and was just trying to hit the ball down and hard. As for the hot bat/ball combination my feelings is stated above. If I were King for a day in senior softball I would bring back the single wall bats and keep hot balls (within reason). I am 100% against using nets or any other foreign obstacle and I say that although I have done more pitching than playing 3rd base in the last 5 or 6 years. I've also been tatooed a couple of times with balls hit back at me, but that's part of the game. This is just my humble opinions though.
May 19, 2010
Proudtex40
57 posts
And I'm having problems spelling as you can see above, but then I'm getting older so I have an excuse...just like having to take a leak every few hours. : - )
May 19, 2010
Jose #12
Men's 60
86 posts
I haven't been on the board for a while but read it everyday. I may not be as vocal about the topic as Einstein, but every poll that I've seen taken favors keeping senior bats.

I wouldn't stop going to tournaments, but surely wouldn't enjoy them as much without the senior bats. I can't speak for the majority on this board but I can speak for my team and most of the players I 've spoken to on other teams and I haven't heard any of them say they wanted to stop using the senior bats.

Maybe there should be a poll similiar to the one posted by SPA. I think that's the only way to determine what the majority really wants.

We stopped going to ASA events because we never knew what other teams were actually using.

Just one mans opinion.
May 19, 2010
DoubleL10
Men's 65
816 posts
Steve, Good to see you on the board again! Yeah, I too, miss the days of single-walled bats even though I hit for a higher average with the Senior Bats. Do you play in the Fairfax senior league? When I left Virginia, they were still using single walled bats and playing at Wakefield. And, we had a blast!
May 19, 2010
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
Jose #12…….You are part of the majority that Einstein speaks of. Joe, I believe, is counting those he plays with and against. He does not play with or against most of those that post on here. If you go to any SSUSA tournament, the bat racks will be filled with senior bats. Occasionally, a Freak or Freak+ will show up. For the majority, a senior bat is the only way to play SSUSA.
May 19, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
proudtex,the sometimers will creep in and get ya every now and again,LOL.
i'm ok with keeping the bats we have if we can play with a safer ball,the 52-275 will do this for us.it will allow defense to be played,it would allow you to hit the ball you describe and still keep it in the park,tho it might get caught.
jose#12 do you feel the same way when playing defense about our hot senior bat/ball combo we now use.offense has taken over our game,with very little chance to play defense.playing defense is a crap shoot now with this hot combo.balls that are hit 2 steps either way don't get caught any more,unless you happen to guess right on where its gonna be hit, then maybe you can get to it.
i never worry about hitting with a senior bat in my hands,i know that if it is a step or 2 to either side of a defender i'll have a base hit.
May 19, 2010
Proudtex40
57 posts
Hey Larry, I haven't played in the senior league for several years. I've been playing with the young guys which I've enjoyed because all I do is pitch and hit. We play at various fields, but last year we played most of our games at Nottaway on the small field. I really enjoy that since it's only 280' and I can still reach that with no problem so I only have to run to 1st base. It's funny getting walked at 57 years old by a 20 yr old pitcher who then pitches to a 28 yr old stud that crushes the ball. I guess they would rather have the young guys hit the HR instead of us old farts. : - )
Give my best to Pam and let me know when you come to VA for a tournament.
May 19, 2010
DoubleL10
Men's 65
816 posts
Wow! Still playing at Nottaway; now, that brings back some good memories! I think you're right about not pitching to us old guys rather than the young studs. Even I get walked from time-to-time and I'm almost 64! I really enjoy it when I play against the kids and they creep me!
May 19, 2010
Jose #12
Men's 60
86 posts
salio2k...I play on the opposite coast from Einstein, so I don't have any paricular loyalty. I play in several senior leagues with single wall bats and I don't enjoy it half as much as the one league (plus tournaments)that allow senior bats.

mad dog..I play OF and 1B and enjoy the challange of playing defense with the current bat/ball combo. I'm not trying to demean or put down those who don't want the senior bats, that's their choice. I just enjoy the senior bats more.

We obviously all love softball or we wouldn't be here arguing about the specifics. I'd play even if we went back to Bombats and SB 12's, but I wouldn't enjoy it as much and I certainly wouldn't travel to tourney's.
May 19, 2010
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
Jose #12.........I did not mean to imply that you were loyal to Einstein. I only meant that you play SSUSA or other associations that allow senior bats and that you are not looking to do away with them. That would put you in the majority that Einstein speaks of.
May 19, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
jose#12 you are right in enjoying hitting with the hot combo we have now,who wouldn't.the prol there is, that it makes the inf and pitcher have an undue risk of being killed or receive serious injury.i have actually hit balls that have gotten onto fielders(to also include the OF'ers) so quick that they really didn't have time to react to them.and i'll be the first to tell you, i do not hit the ball as hard as a lot of senior's do.
i also enjoy the challenge of defense,but with this combo its more of a guessing game than a reaction to a hit ball.
like i have said another post,when i hit singles and turn them into doubles b/c the OF'er has to play so deep b/c of our hot bat/ball combo there is something wrong.
lets bring some sanity to our game,so we can have some FUN playing defense again.
May 19, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Time to find a less difficult
and demanding position on the field, Robert.
You gotta know when to hold 'em...
As I said, you can go play checkers
with Kevin or take up lawn bowling.
Proud Tex.
Hey Steve.
Great to hear from you again
and thanks for the kind remarks.
You're a great player and a better guy
and I enjoyed both watching you play
and playing against you.
A real monster at 3rd base
and with a bat.
Steve, there's so much self interest
wreaking through all these discussions
regarding dumbing down our equipment.
These aficionados have no other suggestion to make the game safer
but to dumb down to a restricted flight ball that few will want or be willing
to play with.
The ball we use has to be lively
and safer.
Not just safer.
We've got a lot of whiners
and name callers in our midst
it seems but in fact there are damn few.
And even fewer when you discount
the anonymous ones who uses multiple
handles/disguises.
I too prefer single wall bats and good
balls but the standard these ignorant and self interested few want to take us
to is well below that level, Steve,
well below and is unacceptable to us,
first, last and always.
Again, we at NorCal deal with this situation all the time and have always defined it in favor of senior bats
and good 44x375 balls
and we WON'T be coerced, intimidated
or deterred to play the game
we want, love and deserve to play.
I saw some of those Fergie Matches
before I started playing Major plus.
There were some great games
with Clatta and company.
Hope to see you again soon
somewhere down the road.
May 19, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
but yet its ok for you to call anyone that disagrees with your worthless point of view ignorant and other names.
how is the drivel you post not self serving.
tell me where does it say we have to have our private info out there for all to see to have an opinion that is a valid one.
please tell me what message board you know that requires all personal info be viewable by the public,none that i know of.
no one is trying to get you to do anything you don't want to.
as steve has said the individual that was killed,was hit with ASA equipment which is a lot tamer than this hot combo us seniors use now, but hey you don't care as you want to impress all the girlies that come to see you hit a ball 450',so you can have fun.tell that to the loved ones when another is killed.
i could go back to the metal days and have said so,but you choose to ignore that,and personally i think you wouldn't as you have said you would quit before giving up your hot bat/ball combo.
game set match,see ya cabim boy.
May 20, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
oh forgot,i still play with the younger generation and have no prol playing my position,in senior ball you don't get to play your position,you stand there as rockets are hit all over the place and out of the park,i could put myself in a lawn chair to do that.by the way,what part of having to play defense don't you like.
May 20, 2010
Jose #12
Men's 60
86 posts
T think tournament ball is a different animal from playing league games. In the leagues, you usually have a greater discrepency in age and talent level. So saftey becomes more of a concern,i.e. a sixty year old hitting against a 75-80 year old.

Tournament teams are usually made up of the best players/more highly skilled players, who are closer in age, who are more up to the challenge of the hot bat/ball combo.

I have seen a few injuries, especially pitchers, but not always with senior bats. I agree with Dirty on that when I pitched, it was ususally a lapse in concentration that caused the problem.

We can all agree on one thing...we must all love playing. Choose your poison there is something for each of us.
May 20, 2010
Steve 27
22 posts
I would like to weigh in on the shaved bat issue. I started playing Class A ball in 1978. I've played against the best players in the world. For example; Don Ardt, Stan Harvey, Rick Sheer and Rooster Bradley just to name a few of the former Howard's Furniture players. I've played against Steel's, Demarini and numerous others. Trust me, these were the best of the best players ever. They could absolutely kill the ball. However, when they would occasionally hit one at me ( by the way I pitched ) I could at least catch it, or knock it down and was not fearful of injury. All that has changed with today's equipment. I wear shinguards and can bearly get my glove on the ball. Have my reflexes slowed that much? No! It's the shaved bats that making the difference. I hate what it has done to the game. I don't understand why anybody has to have one or what the thrill is of hitting homeruns with them. It's equal to taking steroids in my book. I'll bet Don Ardt has turned over in his grave. We used to take hours of batting practice to achieve the homerun stroke we had then with antiquated bats. Guys nowadays just buy their homeruns by taking already hot bats and then having them shaved. I say let's get some directors with the moxie to put on tournaments and tell the players " leave your bats at home. The bats will be furnished by the directors and let the truly talented and able-bodied players hit, run, glove and throw like we used to. That's the only way you are ever going to get the game back that we all fell in love with when ball was ball!
May 20, 2010
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
Steve 27........Are you talking about ASA or USSSA? Is this in Texas?
May 20, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
We don't have the shaved bat problem
in seniors compared with what
some think is happening in the open
divisions.
We do need the desire and means
to check for/catch bat cheaters
just like you do with any cheaters
else more guys will tend to rationalize
and take advantage.
Bobby.
Sounds like you've really lost the stomach (I wish I could) for and have
slowed down too much
for the game we play and you should really consider changing positions
rather than changing the whole game
to suit your slow,
selfish and ignorant interests.
Our game has always been dangerous and if you want to protect the pitchers
there's a cajillion things that can be done that won't punish everyone
not least of which are screens.
You're a whining and broken record, Bobby boy and senior softball
has decided for lively bats and balls.

May 20, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Help me out here Joe, why is it "ignorant and of self interest" to have a different view on bats and balls?
Isnt that what our great country was founded on? The right to have a different opinion or view. And the absolute responcibility to speak out about it.
Isnt our voting system based on anonimity, the secret ballot?
Isnt adding things to our game that YOU want the same thing you are preaching against? The changing of our game!
Either you are for change or you arent, which is it?
May 20, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
steve 27,as said,in senior ball we really don't have a shave bat prol,maybe some might be endloading them,but that would be it i think.
now to the real problem,is that most senior bats are as hot as a shaved bat,therein is our problem with senior ball,we are playing with bats that are as hot as shaved ones.

oh cabim boy and what is all the crap you put out,is it not whining and a broken record yourself,wa-wa i want to hit a ball 500' so i can be seen as a BMOC.maybe because of all your whining is why rip-it decided not to use you.mmm there is a self interest right there.i have none as i'm not sponsored by anyone and never even tried to be,as i'm here to just play ball the way it should be played,thats playing DEFENSE AND OFFENSE.oh thats right you were dropped,sorry cabin boy you lose.
GAME,SET,MATCH...
May 20, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Check out the specs for play
in NCSSA, SPA, Huntsman, SSUSA
and LVSSA.
That would be 5 to 0.
A shut out.
If God wanted our old,
sorry and scared selves
on the mound to be protected better
we'd a been born
with littler heads and smaller balls.
Come to think of it, E,
I'm not sure why you and little bobby
have anything to worry about at all.
May 20, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Sorry, everyone.
This is getting childish
stupid and offensive I'm sure to most
if not all.
I'm done.
See you all in Reno.
May 20, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4359 posts
Steve 27
The reality of any assn doing that is far fetched. Huntsman for the most part finds a few every year they remove.
Cost for say just an event like Reno would be around 33k, for say 3 bats in each dugout for the roughly 26 fields they will use. < at 200 a bat> Add to that the transport cost and storage between events, it isn't going to happen. Just like the real bat check won't. Majority of players are good to go, but for those who get caught, they are not dealt with enough and if were, are back later.
Would be nice though if you could get around the Make\model of bat, it's weight and whether Bal or EL... Just hope no one breaks one in the mean time...
lol
May 20, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Right again Joe, you have sunk to a new low.
And still avoiding questions you either cant answer or are afraid to be honest about.
See you in Reno!
May 20, 2010
tattooball
614 posts
E4
He is never going to answer a question, I posted 4 direct questions with big spaces in between them so he wouldn't get confused. Well lets just say that the chicken hearted coward never showed up.
May 20, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Kevin, are you going to Reno? If so, where will you be?
May 20, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Try to walk away and they just
keep PULLIN' me back in.

Name calling, Kevin?
Piling on, Kevin.
Just can't let anything go, can you.
I would say that's beneath you
but having listened to you many times,
I can't.
A big man, like you
is a name calling little mouse
who's not fooling or impressing anyone.
Here's a bit of cheese for you
Try and stay on the issues.
You might be better served.
May 20, 2010
Pitcherman
Men's 50
40 posts
Can someone please tell me why someone on an open message board for a topic we are all so passionate about would degrade people so much for their differing opinions and call them ignorant, clueless, whiners, self serving, in the minority, unaccountable, unmanly, gutless and non-credible because they don’t state their true name here and above all masturbators? Also, if you don’t want to armor up, risk your life with bats and balls needed to make men with declining skills feel good about themselves and put up screens in the middle of the field to change the game in a manner never seen in all our years of playing ball, you should step down because you are not a man?

No answer necessary!
May 20, 2010
Omar Khayyam
994 posts
Steve27, welcome to the growing majority of players who miss the days of balanced softball, where defense, base running, and strategy were as important as offense.

Great post, and what credentials you have! I see your point throughout. The sad thing is that it is not the shaved bat in senior softball that is ruining the game for all but the major plus level, it is the composite bat, not even a decade old, yet it's imposition is driving many long-time players out of the game, and lessening the fun for others.

Keep lobbying, and maybe we will return to the fun game of just 10 years ago: non-composites, lively ball, balanced game.
May 20, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Say something bold and with passion
and you're beset with
anonymous pitch-men cowards
and self interested, bloated fools
with nothing else better to do.
SSUSA, SPA, NCSSA, Huntsman
and LVSSA all have spoken and openly
by their actions repudiate the drivel
and whining this is sliding out the holes of these loud and gutless few.
They are my supporters and constituents, those who stand and wish to invest in a game that is fun
and full of camaraderie and competition
like we're gonna have in Reno
next weekend.
Lively bats and balls forever
and if safety is REALLY an issue
there's tons of ways of dealing with it
without killing our game.
Screens would work way better
than dumbed down balls and stiff
and stupid bats.

May 20, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Einy, if there are a ton of ways to add safety to our game why not list them all? Dont hold back, share them with us.

If you want to kill tournament Senior Softball, throw a screen in the middle of the field. That should do it.

And what makes YOUR passion more important then the rest of ours. You rip anyone who dares take a stand on the other side of the bat/ball/screen issue from yours.

As passionate as you are about Lively bats and balls, some of us are just as passionate about wanting our balanced game back.
How thats going to happen, who knows, but it will happen.




May 20, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
John, my good man.
Are you saying you haven't heard me
talk forever about all the things that
could be done to promote safety?
Really?
Did you forget?
Or are you insincere and trying to badger and bait me?
The readers have it all in front of them, my errant man.
Lively bats and balls are key,
critical to our enjoyment.
It's been shown and demonstrated
again, and again and again.
John, can you hear me?
Are you listening?
John?
Anything else is not
how our game is played
and will not be supported by a great number of players
of which I will be one.
I will back up what I've been talking about with my actions
unlike those who run like
to run their mouths,
disagree but will continue to play
no matter what "they" and
their ignorant and/or outside
interests want to change us to.
The GREAT majority of us
have already spoken, John.
Are you listening and getting this,
John.
It's over.
Game, set and match.
May 20, 2010
Omar Khayyam
994 posts
einstein keeps prattling on about cowards who should leave the game if they have safety concerns. Of course, many posters are concerned about safety, and rightly so.

As far as my position, it is a desire to return to the balanced game, not the offense-dominated home run derby of today. It's the pitchers like einstein who are frightened and want a screen, not the brave majority who just want a chance to field the ball before it's by them or over the fence behind them.

I could live with a screen if it reassures pitchers like einstein, or sluggers like him who evidently have little bat control, but I would prefer to do away with the composite bats and return to the fun game we grew old playing.
May 20, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
Omar as usual you opinion is from a gutless,no name masturbating point of view,DOH,LOL. :):)

i like what you have said,but i don't see the bats being toned down in the future,to much $ involved i think.if you go over to the www.softballfans.com message board(and you don't even have to have your private info out there for everyone to see to be able to post),you'll see the kids are accepting the 52-275 ball.usssa has made it their ball of choice now.they say the ball will still go out for the hr hitters and there is no mishitting balls out like we get now with the senior bat.
now the screen,i'm not in favor of using one as it takes a defensive position away from the defense, unless you make it an automatic out for hitting it,otherwise to me its a nuisance out there.


is it me or
everybody
get
tired of
the 4 words typed
and hitting the
enter key
to make your
post look longer
than
what it really is
,basically more
fluff than
substance.
May 21, 2010
Omar Khayyam
994 posts
mad dog, for a moment I thought you had been einsteinized! LOL

Sadly, I agree with you. Most of the guys on our team have invested in an expensive bat (not all Mikens) and they would be a little frustrated to give them up. On the other hand, they WOULD give them up to return to the game we used to enjoy, the game of balance. But it might be that a ball like the 52-275 is going to be the easy answer. Of course, we will lose einstein, but no one else that I can remember posting here. I would keep my Miken in that case because it is the best balanced bat I've ever swung.

I wasn't kidding when I said I could live with a screen. I've pitched about 1000 games with a screen (it's been mandated in our league for 10 years) and it is not nearly the bother most think it is. But I would rather have a balanced game again and do away with the screen except for batting practice.
May 21, 2010
DoubleL10
Men's 65
816 posts
Omar and Bob, I'm still holding onto my two old H&C Bombats waiting for a return to the old days! Ya just never know...
May 21, 2010
tattooball
614 posts
And your 4 answers are? Yes I did read all of your factless.faceless,unsubstanciated,BS physco babble. The only info you ever post is how big your fragile ego is.
May 21, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Careful, Kev.
You're fangs are showing, again.
But, for you and John I will reprise.
Here's the idea.
The more you give pitchers to work with
the tougher it will be for batters
to sit on/wait for fat pitches.
So, if you made the rubber wider,
let's say 6 feet then pitchers could use
more angles and change the ball trajactory and timing with every pitch.
Also, if you made the rubber longer,
all the way to 60 feet, pitchers would be farther back, more safe and could again change trajectory and timing for the batters.
Also, the plate/mat could be made much larger let's say 44 x 28 making the batters less comfortable and have to hit more tougher pitches keeping them off the sweetspot and changing their timing.
1 and 1 count or even to one strike
for the batters which would push the game along and give the pitchers way more leverage in keeping batters off balance.
I believe the bat/ball combo we're using now in NorCal with senior bats
and 44x375 Baden Fire or your Trumpball
are OK but not a step less.
I'd like the balls a little better
but that's me, like the ones in LVSSA
and they were your balls, too
weren't they.
You couldn't keep the smiles off
all our faces, we had such a good time.

Now, all those are just for starters
and only out of my head.
I'm sure there's a bunch of other
ideas that guys might have to make things safer for pitchers and other players, too.

Kevin, read my lips.
Safer AND lively has a chance.
Not safer OR lively.
We been playing this game
since we was babies.
Kids in high school were killed
by hit/thrown balls.
Didn't and shouldn't stop anything.
Are you gonna take on football next.
Any clue how dangerous playing football really is, Kev.
I played 7 years and I've seen deaths
on film and, in person,
paralyzing spinal injuries and quality of life robbing injuries on a daily basis.
Try and sell safety to those guys, Kev.
There's a lot more to work with.

Danger is part of the excitement and
experience else we might just as well be
playing checkers with you.
You and some others gone too far in the other direction.
Safer?
Sure but at what cost???
Hitting sponges would safer
but no one will play, would they.

NCSSA, thanks to Noel Lanctot,
Gary Tryhorn, A.C. Linde, Pete D'Avignon
and Bob Strand and many, many others
is defined and run by players
over 2000 and we haven't and won't go to
a less lively bat ball combo because
it's not called for except by those with special interests, Kev.
We won't play if we can't have fun,
Kev and I'll tell you this.
A lot of the kids will stop playing, too.
Lastly, on one thing we seem to agree.
Bat cheating and cheaters need to be
meaningfully checked else, more and more
will drift over to the dark side.
Just like with speeding/speeders
you have to give out tickets
to keep guys, in this competitive culture, from taking advantage.
May 21, 2010
tattooball
614 posts

And your answer is? LOL You will never change. Blah blah blah, on and on.
May 21, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
And I forgot the easiest and most effective way to help pitchers from being hurt is with the arc limits.
I would make them both higher and lower
and make crossing the plate/batter
from knees to shoulders a strike,
also.
May 21, 2010
tattooball
614 posts
I really love reading your babble. This one says. LETS CHANGE THE GAME ENTIRELY SO I CAN STILL HIT HOME RUNS, AND GIVE ME A BETTER BALL TO DO IT.

Nice........
May 21, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
I answered your questions, Kev.
You just can't seem to hear me or anyone
who disagrees with you, sometimes.
It's in front of everyone now, Kev
to figure out who's who and what's what.
And make up their own minds.
That's what a forum is for
and all about.
It's as important to a community's growth and development as having enough
to eat and drink.
I'm glad you're back talking
and contributing, again.
We may disagree on some thing's but your a monster contributor to senior softball and our community.
Bat cheaters/cheating, Kev.
We need some help.
May 21, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
The special bats have affected/hurt much more than just pitcher safety.
May 21, 2010
neck10
493 posts
have you guys looked some of the older players in the game today take a look at all thos guys on that minesota grayhounds team,they all look like they live above the weight room.no wonder they can hit the ball called dedication & being in shape.I hit a ball 330 with a new vicios last night & some of the younger guys were going much futher than that with the new asa easton bat & I watched them take it ourt of the wrapper, so Im sure someone lifting or in shape can hit 370 plus with an ultra II.
May 21, 2010
neck10
493 posts
what class was this tourney?????the 55 in indy wasnt like that except for the 50 major plus teams!!!!!!!!
May 21, 2010
tattooball
614 posts

I just re-read the entire post and quess what..... You did not answer 1 question, so lets try this one more time since you are now so willing to answer my questions.

As usual alot of print with no content. Please address each and every point seperatly so the common man can understand your position.

Let's hear your point about protecting only 1 player.

Lets hear your point about why with deminishing reflex's you should use the hottest equipment.

Lets hear your point on on why making a safer game will ruin it for everyone.

Please explain to us why you only want to protect a select few.

Lets hear it JOE inquirering minds want to know and you are so willing to answer.
May 21, 2010
Rudy
Men's 55
24 posts
The rules of all sports evolve. Look at the 3 point line in basketball. Blows to the head in football. I actually like some of the ideas proposed by Einstein.

1. Move the pitcher back. The angle of the pitch will be different & the pitcher will also have more time to react.
2. Increase the width of the mound. The idea of pitches comung in from different angles is intriguing.
3. Increase the height of the pitch (15 to 18 feet). The batter will have to make adjustments in order to hit the ball out of the park.

I think those were very good suggestions.
May 21, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
I've spoken to these points
over and over again either in rebuttal,
analysis or by comment.
I think you may have some difficulty
imagining ANYONE could disagree with you
and make sense.
The major senior softball associations, Kev, all support
my basic understanding and approach.
Lively bats and balls are integral
to the experience of playing senior softball if not all softball.
Safe and not lively, doesn't and won't work for us.
The burden of proof is on you, Kev,
to show that what we're doing
is wrong or undeserved.
We know who we are and what we want.
It's you who's saying
we're unjustified, reckless and irresponsible and just like with NCSSA
when they looked carefully enough
at the data
it doesn't add up.
To you, your argument is overwhelming.
For us, it doesn't hold water.
So why don't you tell us
the reasons why going to a lesser bat/ball combo is necessary, beneficial
and necessary for us to continue
to enjoy and want to invest in senior softball.
May 21, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Rudy, you really believe the special bats are necessary?

And do you realize the special bats are helping to cause the special rules changes you mention?

Joe, all the associations support is the idea of making money, and that old guys need the special bats to feel good about themselves and continue coming back and paying to use the special bats to do in their 50s and 60s what many of them weren't in their 20s and 30s.
May 21, 2010
WOW
197 posts
Ricky33 asks a question and it leads to this????????????????. Grow up!!!!!!
May 21, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Gary,
I think there's something to what you say
but the fun that's essential in hitting
with good equipment cannot and needn't
be compromised.
WOW.
There's a lot of real value undergirding
some the comments being made.
Just communicating and contributing again is positive
and the argument about good bats/balls
is still under siege in some areas.
May 21, 2010
Rudy
Men's 55
24 posts
Dirty,

In answer to your question: yes.
Why?
I am a perfect example of how the bats allowed me to play Senior Softball until I could no longer throw a ball more than 10 feet. I am not a big person and my best attribute was my defense (which I was able to do at a high level until the arm gave out and yes I played the infield). But the Ultra II gave me the abilty to contribute to my team (Robert's Contruction) offensively also. I was not a home run hitter, although occasionally one would go out of the park, but I was able to hit over .650 because of the equipment. If my arm hadn't given out I would still be playing today. So yes, I do feel the special equipment is good for the game.

The suggestions stated are not that big of a change, but I feel would still increase the safety of the game.
May 21, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Rudy, I do understand what you are saying but probably still disagree.


They might very well enable some guys to still play the game, and to them I am sure it is a very good thing. But I think, on balance, the special bats and funky rules they seem to create do more harm than good.

High-flying basketball players who can no longer dunk as they once did develop other aspects to their game. They do not get to play in spring-loaded shoes.

Fastball pitchers who lose some MPHs off their fastballs have to develop other pitchers, they don't get to pitch from 45' so they can still get the fastball past the batter.

We all lose something over time. I have gotten a bit slower, they don't let me get a head start.
May 21, 2010
tattooball
614 posts
once again a coward and a fool, you have not answered or attempted to answer any of these. All of your babble hear only protects one position. That position just happens to be the one you play. protect me so I can hit the hottest equipment so I can stroke my
fragile ego. That is all I hear along with the rest of the intelligent ones.
May 21, 2010
Rudy
Men's 55
24 posts
Dirty

I have a feeling that there are more people playing Senior Softball that are in my situation than not.

I bet if they did invent a spring loaded shoe, that they would be used in order to stretch a career.
May 21, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Rudy, regarding the shoes I would hope not but sadly you are probably correct.
May 21, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
I find it very interesting that "many" players who advocate Lively Bats and Balls are either what I consider Upper Major players or Major Plus.
On the other hand "many" players from Lower Majors, AAA and AA arent nearly as vocal.
Any ideas about why?

Rudy, I think that if there were more players on the cusp of not playing due to a worn out body parts the bat isnt going to keep them out there.
Any ideas on a spring loaded arm? I'll have one please.
May 21, 2010
Rudy
Men's 55
24 posts
E:

My arm wasn't worn when I started playing Senior ball. I guess the older you get the faster things go. I do agree with you though, I could go for a spring loaded arm.
May 21, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
It's becoming more clear
you're unable to hear, Kev.
A big man like you, calling people names.
What an embarrassment for you and yours.
You're just a gutless bully
who doesn't like it when someone
stands up to him.
May 21, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
I'd say it's time to take this off line
Kevin if there's something you really want to say or start.
You can call or contact me anytime.
May 21, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
When throwing stones one should expect them to be throw back.

May 21, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
When throwing stones one should expect them to be thrown back.

May 21, 2010
tattooball
614 posts
once again a coward and a fool, you have not answered or attempted to answer any of these. All of your babble hear only protects one position. That position just happens to be the one you play. protect me so I can hit the hottest equipment so I can stroke my
fragile ego. That is all I hear along with the rest of the intelligent ones.
May 21, 2010
grumpy55
Men's 60
102 posts
E4/E6,
I am guessing that the majority of players in the lower divisions want to just play the game. I know our team does. Our guys do not need homeruns to have fun. I am under witness protection so I can not tell you my name:)
May 21, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Kevin's just a blowhard bully
and no one I'm or anyone need be
concerned about.
John, what a surprise you came out
backing, Kevin.

May 21, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Good bats and balls, forever.
Bust and random check for bat shavers
and end loaders.
Free defensive subbing is better
than batting everyone picnic style
if "We play...to win...the game".
See you all in Reno.
May 21, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
It is my belief
that a poor or dissatisfying
bat/ball combo does and will ground
the drive/desire to alter bats
so that satisfying performance
can be achieved by the players
of any age.
By providing players as in SSUSA,
LVSSA, NCSSA, SPA and Huntsman
with a satisfying combo
this drive is virtually sated
and only a minimum of cheating
will exist and can be reasonably
monitored and checked.
May 21, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Joe I'm not backing anyone, my point was and is this. You seem to think its ok for you to name call, but when its you on the other end, you are being Bullied.
I would recommend choosing your words more carefully, however I know I would be talking to a wall.
Do I need to remind you how you talk to others? Its all in print and readily available if your memory has slipped.

Understood Grumpy,
I am of the same feeling about the lower divisions, we certainly enjoy playing defense as much as offense.And
your anonymity is safe with me.
May 21, 2010
Torco
16 posts
just got a miken freak super maxload 84 balls on the bat it broke off at the taper to the handle and almost took my brothers head off when the barrel flew off at him! called miken asked when there junk would do this and they should not make junk that can kill someone. you can sue a gun company when there gun kills someone but not a car company or bat company? why? there are laws to follow in the states if you put out fraudulent products that are really unsafe? look at seat belts in a car or air bags! DON'T BUY MIKEN UNSAFE!!!!!!!
May 21, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey John,
I was trying to spare everyone else.
Anybody that's got a beef with me
can bring it, anytime and any place
and I'll do my best not to disappoint them.
Kevin knows better.
This is a forum for positive comments, debate and issues that relate to senior softball and our community
and he seems to have run out of material.
May 21, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Torco, it must have been a fluke. I have several hundred hits on mine and its still going strong.
What ball were you hitting?


May 21, 2010
tattooball
614 posts
I this forum is for positive comments how come you have over thirty negative, name calling, bulling, comments in the last 2 wekks. Thats before I posted.
May 21, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
oh well children.lets get back to game fully rounded game and that includes being able to play defense and not be killed trying to do it.
do away with the hot bat/ball combo.52-275 balls are the way to go,hell the kids are now using them and are starting to like them.

oh cabin boy you jumped me for saying the MCT ball was crap when i mention we should use it last yr,so why the change now.
May 21, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
l'm getting too old for all this vitriol and
Wait a minute.
I've been too old
for this stuff for quite a while.
A friend emailed me that he was sad
to see me in such a mire.
He's right.
I will from this post on
not attack or respond to anyone's verbal attack on this site.
It's easy to get pulled in/started
when there's controversy and passion
involved but this behavior both from and to me is humiliating.
Anyone that wants to make anything personal with me is more than welcome
on another channel but this forum
and our discussions and issues
and far to important a vehicle
for all of us.
I'm not going to stop posting
so it will be easy to see
how I'm doing, we're doing.
Lively bats and balls forever
and free defensive subbing rules.
May 21, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Joe please forgive me for being skeptical, I am however pulling for US.

Softball, its a game of balance.

See you in Reno..
May 21, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Thanks, John.
We still disagree and it should be keener
than before but not vitriolic
and disrespectful.
See you in Reno.
May 22, 2010
tattooball
614 posts
Your friend is a much wiser man then you. You call me a bully yet you attack the man that started the thread long before I decided to post. Not just in your first post, the second an on an on. You friend I believe has found the key to manipulating you so you don't feel defeated, kudos to him. It really is sad that you contradict yourself in every thread you enter and attack people.

Maybe this friend will continue to massage your ego so you will have some simalation of normal behavior.

So where are the 4 answers you claim you have answered? I will put all 4 into 1 to make it easier for to answer.

Why do you feel you are god, and YOU are the one that should decide who life is more important?
May 22, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Kevin, you can start calling me
Joe-Hova if you'd like.
As I said, when there's passion,
conviction, self interest and real feelings involved it's easy to be triggered into fighting and wanting to fight back.
I get tired of having to field
veiled and unveiled attacks,
badgering and baiting
just like you.
God, you should know.
I mean, Joe-Hova, you should know.

In NorCal, Kevin,
we faced the same tensions,
concerns, arguments as now
but didn't become afraid,
asked some simple questions about
what was going on
and determined there was not sufficient
reason to change the game
we love to play.
It's that simple.
The burden of proof to alter
or change our game is on those
who wish to see it changed.
We can make the game safer
simply and inexpensively by changing
some of the pitcher/strike
parameters and it won't cost anyone
a dime.
Or we can use screens which are being used lots of places with a lot of success if we care that much about safety.
We feel hitting with lively/good
equipment is essential to the fun
we want/need/deserve to have
playing softball and it precedes
from when we was 8 years old.
Lively bats and lively balls
is how the game needs to be played.
It's that simple.
You either agree or disagree
and we can argue about it
till the cows come home.
I think a lively and safer ball
might work but not a meaningfully less performing ball that is safer
doesn't and won't.

I feel that most players agree
with me, Kev, and fundamentally like
our game the way it is today
and don't want it slowed down when
there's lots of other ways
to skin the "safer cat".
SSUSA, NCSSA etc all have spoken
for us and we're ready/eager to play.

May 22, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Stay on the issues, Kevin,
if you can and our community will be better served.
You can take it up with me personally
anytime and anywhere off the site
as you may or may not have the inclination.
I don't think your arguments about going to a safer and softer ball
are compelling or worthy of our support.
The burden of proof is on you
and as of yet, a la NorCal,
we don't buy it.
Issues, Kevin.
Try and stay on the issues and our community will be better served.
May 23, 2010
Jay24
1 posts
Why would someone use a shaved bat in senior softball,when they are allowed to swing senior bats legally. I would take a senior bat over a shaved bat anyday. Shaved bats are okay for bp to impress everyone...but when your playing a game...put them away and just play the game. Play hard with no one getting hurt,especially the pitcher !!!
May 23, 2010
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2647 posts
Jay24, that's been my point all along. If we went to ASA or utrip bats the result would be that many would swing altered bats.
May 23, 2010
tattooball
614 posts
What I find odd is why you are on the internet playing, real men are playing softball in your beloved nor-cal tourny this weekend.

What hapened, did you get a pass?
May 23, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Bruce, great point
and a big reason for keeping senior bats.

We played in Modesto with 44x375 balls
with senior bats and had a blast.
No one was hit or hurt with 4 major plus level teams playing against each other.
Stay on the issues, Kev.
What's wrong with us in NorCal
endorsing and playing with good 44x375 balls and senior bats?

May 24, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
So with that logic we should legalize rape, murder, cocaine, grand larceny, and embezzling because even though they are illegal now some commit or use those anyway? And we don't want to punish the guilty, so let's just make everyone pay the consequences.

And, of course, no one would shave a senior bat to get an edge None of us have ever seen eight guys on the same team keep using the same bat where there are other very similar ones sitting in their dugout. (sigh)
May 24, 2010
tattooball
614 posts
We played? You were on the internet for 2 full days, how did you play in mondesto and post in san fran at the same time?
May 24, 2010
Rudy
Men's 55
24 posts
This will be my last post. I am amazed at the maturity level of some of the posters on this board. I assume most of the people ewho respond on this board are over 50. But reading the name calling that is going on, it reminds of 5 & 6 year olds. Are you guys serious or is this just a joke to provoke answers? It doesn't matter if I agree with Einstein, Trumpball, or Dirty, etc, it would be a lot nicer if the personal attacks do not occur. I know I am only one person, but in this case I hope my voice is heard & we will all try to respect each others opinions in a friendly atmosphere. Call me a dreamer if you must.
May 24, 2010
kbl
Men's 60
529 posts
Rudy-- good post, thank you.
May 24, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
When you're God stuff like that is
a piece of cake.
Call me Jo-hova.
The internet and owning a computer
cam make one seem ubiquitous
at times,
n'est-ce pas?

I asked you what's wrong with over 2000 of us in NorCal playing by our own rules
and refusing to cave in to all the pressure, self interest and smoke being blown around???
We asked questions and felt all the wind and where it was coming from
made an evaluation and said
we don't have to change our game
for what others think is better for us.
What's wrong with that, Kevin.
Standing up for ourselves
against meaningful self interest
and otherness
and for our own investment
in senior softball and it's future.
We're waiting for your answer.

And to the issues:
In Modesto, this weekend
we used 44x375 balls with senior bats,
equalizer HR's at 1 and five run innings and had a blast.
These were major plus hitting monsters out there like
Steve Imlay, Steve Callan,
Tim Mallet, Smokey 20 and his 50's MTC bombers and other great hitters
and no one got hurt, killed
or crippled as per usual.
What's wrong with that, Kev?
Someone may get hurt
sometime?
That's softball/baseball, Kev
and we've been playing it
all our lives.

We're going up to Reno this weekend
to have a blast playing an SSUSA event
against some of the best teams
in the country with 44 x 375 balls
and senior bats.
Can't wait.



May 24, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Rudy.
You're so right.
Sometimes I have to get hit in the head
a couple of times to get what's going on.
Issues, info, opinions, questions
and positive comments should give us
more than enough stuff to do
on this site.
And of course, anything personal
can and should be taken off-line.
Let cooler heads prevail.
May 24, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
if we go to the 52-275 ball we do away with all the cheaters as no one bat will have an advantage over the other,and that is basically what we are looking for.we can still use our senior bats and won't have to spend all kinds of money to replace them.the hr hitters will still hit their hrs and the single hitters will still get their hits and we will have defense as part of our game once again.we also wouldn't have to be putting obstacles in our way for protection from so called hitters who feel they need to hit middle when hrs are gone.be a real hitter and place the ball if your any good.
May 24, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Robert.
I haven't talked with anyone
senior or open player
who likes playing with that 52x275 ball.
Maybe they're out there somewhere
but I haven't seen or heard from one yet
off this website.
Tons of guys are talking about and supporting screens if it comes
to being more safe for pitchers, though.
And I believe we won't miss a beat
in senior ball if/when we go to screens.
And remember, I believe like a lots of people that by changing the pitching arc and other pitcher-rules
we can make the game safer without costing anyone who plays a dime
and implement the rules in 3 minutes.
May 24, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
if you play usssa it is the classic + ball(one with the dimples to reduce knuckling),they also use the classic M ball(40-300) which is nothing but a sock once heat goes over 85 degrees.they used the 52 at the Budweiser(B thru coed and womens div's) at the beginning of the month in college station,tx and the kids there didn't have anything bad to say about it.they did say it bounced some but thats it.
why do you feel the need to put all these new rules in to protect the 400' hr,i would rather protect the players and have some defense brought back to our game.why at our age do you feel we need to endanger ourselves with this hot bat/ball combo when the 52-275 ball would allow us to continue to play and have fun without anyone being killed.
really is your ego so big that you can't allow that.
May 24, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Changing the game to indulge insecure old guys. Still very sad. :(
May 24, 2010
Proudtex40
57 posts
Wow, us "softball" fanatics are very passionate about our feelings and convictions, but the greatest thing of all is that we all (and I mean all) have a CHOICE as to where we play, when we play, what equipment we use (depending on the tournament/association) and how long we want to play this great American game. Like my former team mate and friend Larry (Double 10), I still have two old Bombats and a couple of Steele bats and won't hesitate to use them if I had the opportunity. Of course, all 3 bats have a few dings in them, but they come with a lot of fond memories from playing with and against the best damn players of all time (in my opinion). My best to all!
Steve Shannon
May 24, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Steve,
Right on about CHOICE.
But we in Norcal experienced
this dilemma and have already seen
that the majority of players
won't play(chose) if the equipment
is not up to par.
We simply remove our participation
and start or look for associations
which respect us and our concerns.
We don't trust Associations
or the market place to act in our behalf
without our input
and we won't support those
that act unilaterally or selfishly
regarding us and our interests.
I'm trying to save everyone a round
of going through having our equipment
compromised, most of us exiting
and then,
giving us back what we both
deserve and demand.
Who wants to go through and waste a year or 2 to eventually get to lively
bats/balls.
Lots of us don't want to or
even have another
year or 2 to waste.
Again, if safety is so prominent
an issue to stop and change everything we're doing
going to screens is a way better option
than changing everything for everyone
involved from fun and skill development
to dollars and cents.
May 24, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Steve, you played against Galloway? :)
May 24, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
as seniors we do not have a choice if we want to play against players our own age.there is nothing wrong with this 52-275 ball except that you won't be hitting 400-450' hrs,unless you are truely a hr hitter.we only need to hit the ball 300' on 90% of the fields in the usa,and there are a ton of fields that are less than 300' and this ball will suffice in all those situations.we can still use our senior bats if you want to and we can bring some defense back into the game.what is wrong with that,everyone who doesn't like this ball ,just wants to have a hr derby.i guess they could care less about the defensive player who has to try and make a play on a ball that is hit with the speed of bullets.all it takes is one bad hop,sun in ones eyes,ball getting lost in the back ground for a second and someone is dead.the 52-275 ball will still let us play a fun game and be safe from death.
i equate it to someone taking a 45 to play paintball,yes the paintball will sting and hurt ya,but the 45 will kill ya.
May 24, 2010
Omar Khayyam
994 posts
einstein complains that if the hot senior bats are banned that the majority of players won't play in his NCSSA. Let's see, back in 2003, there were 97 teams in NCSSA. That's when Mikens were banned and titanium were banned. The ball was lively. Most guys hit with double walls.

Now, after another 500,000 men entering the senior age bracket in northern California, and guys at the older end still playing because of improved health and medicine, the NCSSA has 105 teams.

So, 8 teams out of 105 might not play if we returned to standards of 2003? Another one of einstein's fictional majorities? I had fun in 2003 with the prevailing equipment. I would still have fun if we returned to those standards.
May 25, 2010
Enviro-Vac
Men's 60
394 posts
To me, it seems that over the years it's always been the ball that gets dumbed down followed closely with the Intro. of a livelier bat.

I kinda’ like the game the way it is but would be just as happy with U-Trip bats / current balls.
May 25, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
E-V(jim) yes that is kinda what happens,if the damn cheaters would stop shaving/painting their bats that would work fine(utrip bats/current balls).with the 52-275 ball we wouldn't have to worry about the cheaters tho.i have hit and played with this ball and it is ok to use.we can get back to a game that we used to play,to include defense.
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