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Discussion: All World, All Tourn. Selections

Posted Discussion
July 19, 2005
LA
46 posts
All World, All Tourn. Selections
In the seven years that I have played senior softball, I have seen good teams torn apart because of the All World selections. Egoes and sensitivities quickly get into the way of good friendships that was the original foundation of the team's formation. One possible suggestion, is to have the ump(s) from each game to add two(?) players,with postitions, from each team, to his or her's official score card. Then the tourn. dir. can talley up the votes for the end of the tourn. In this fashion it gives every player and equal opportunity to make a true All World team whether they are on a good team or not. As a player, you would have to be mentioned at least twice(since double elim) to make the tourn team.It would take the politics away from the vote of the players and/or coaches. It would also create more of a sportmanship among the players to the umps and the game itself. What do you think?????
July 19, 2005
Dale
Men's 50
76 posts
I can't believe they have All Tournament, All "World" (c'mon)
selections in Senior Softball. We're 50+ years old. Do we still need our egos massaged? I, like many on this board, have earned my share of All-T awards. Like LA says, they usually cause more friction than friendships and places the emphasis on '1' instead of the team. Trophys are nice for sponsors, but I play the game for the exercise, enjoyment and fellowship it provides. Keep the individual trophies and lower the entry fees.
July 19, 2005
Robert
Men's 50
64 posts
LA
I thinks that is a great idea, coming from a manager it sure would take off alot of pressure & guilt. So many times you could flip a coin in choosing between players with the loser having hurt feelings.
July 19, 2005
mad dog
Men's 60
3938 posts
these do cause riffs amongst teamates,ask buzz, robert will see you in seattle,i'll be playing 55's now,u guys need an extra for the 50's?
July 19, 2005
TaterinGa
Men's 50
178 posts
Dale: I do not feel the same way; we use the highest batting average & have did that since 2000, seems to work alright. The All Tourney Trophies go towards your Softball Hall of Fame Nomination. I love the trophies, when I am having a hard day, I go down & take a look & say, well that day I was awesome.

Tater
July 26, 2005
JoeHardy
11 posts
TaterinGa, not to make it sound like you are one sided, but I think there is more to just having a high batting avergae in softball. I knoww a lot of great players who contribute outstanding defense for their team besides hitting. A lot of great defensive plays put a stop to those would be big innings. Some of the annimosity between players is that very thing. Hitting vs defense,,,,,,well you have to have both to win. What it all comes down to is that you win as a team,,,,,who cares about "ALL TOURNEY". It's about playing together and picking up the your team mate when he's having a tuff time,,,,,that's why I play !!!
July 26, 2005
mad dog
Men's 60
3938 posts
and with some teams its not what u do but who u know
July 26, 2005
JoeHardy
11 posts
Gary19, Mad Dog,,,you guys couldn't have said it better. So many players are selected for those very reasons. Softball is a team sport and it takes contrbution of everyone to be winners,,,,,,,there is nothing better than winning,,,,,I love this game !!!
July 26, 2005
LA
46 posts
Guys; thanks for some nice replies to my topic. I have been Blessed over the last two + years to be able as player/coach to select players to our 5 World and National wins. I told all of them that if you made it one time, you had better be even darn better the next tourns. to even be a candidate. I just like to spred the glory to others on the team. However you do have to play into some childish egoes or frustrated abilities from their childhood playing days and that I have seen creates the issue with team breakups. Again, I strongly suggest that the TD takes a serious look and get the umpires involved for each game for player selection. Afterall, we DO pay our above fair share for the entry fee to their tourns.
July 28, 2005
terryspears
Men's 55
38 posts
Years ago I played tournaments in Oklahoma and Texas where the individual player awards were selected by opposing coaches. A coach would nominate two or three players for each category from any team but his own. It seemed to work great. A player could get AT, defense, offense, and or HR recognition without being on a team that finished in the top few places. I liked it.
July 28, 2005
Smokey20
Men's 55
102 posts
I like the way ASA selects their award winners at Nationals. The tournament officials pick. Leaves all the B.S. out of it. What I've noticed is, if you are one dimensional you will not be selected.

Oct. 16, 2005
the wood
1086 posts
As a manager, I've had to deal with all of the elements that have already been mentioned. The ASA method does take the pressure off the mgr but it may ignore something important. Why is it that some assns offer 15 AT awards and others only give 10?
We just had 5 guys hitting .750+ and could only select 2... all of them played defense, too. I'm told that one of our players is still grousing over being sbubbed in Iowa (his opinion)... he didn't play defense or run the bases. I feel much worse for the 3 .750+ guys in LV that didn't make it. It is grossly disappointing to me that 50+ people are so hung up on this. But, all things considered, either the TDs should pick them or leave it to a team vote. There always seems to be 5 pounds of potatoes for a 2 pound bag.
Oct. 16, 2005
Proudtex40
57 posts
LA,
I totally agree with you 100%. Do away with the all tournament team and just play and have fun. There is no doubt that most selections are well deserved, but then you have the political selections. As for the Hall of Fame, I totally support inductions, but believe someone should figure out another way for nomination and selection.
Oct. 17, 2005
tater9
62 posts
Everybody makes some sort of contribution during the course of the tournament. When it comes time for the selections just list the team name. Don't we win as a team and lose as a team?
Oct. 17, 2005
Walkoff
8 posts
My guess is that players that don't usually make the All Tournament team think there doesn't need to be recognition given for outstanding play.
Oct. 17, 2005
Proudtex40
57 posts
Walkoff,
Not sure who you directed your comment to, but I can assure you that in my case I've made the all tourney team many times and that doesn't change my feelings in the least. Maybe some ego's need stroking and if that's the case, then give them all the trophies.
Steve Shannon
Oct. 17, 2005
MK39
Men's 50
333 posts
Proudtex40
I only wish that you lived close enough to Ca. as i would put you on my team in a heartbeat.
I have a couple of very unselfish players who would rather see a team mate get it more then themselfs so's just to encourage that team mate.
Denny Jones is exactly like that and you sound like that as well.
ASA has always picked them at Nationals and for the first time this year i was part of USSSA picking them in Hutchinson KS.
I picked them for Des Moines and picked it by overall contributions and not just hitting average.
It is a real good feeling for the players chosen and like Gary19 said has been a part of the game forever. It is like an incentive to some to excel even more and if that helps us to be more competitive then it can be a good thing.
IMO
Thanks
Mike Kelly
Kelly's Sports /Worth
Oct. 17, 2005
Walkoff
8 posts
You hit the nail on the head MK. Some players need that extra incentive to produce.
Oct. 18, 2005
Robo2
223 posts
"Do you know what stirs my blood? Baseball! A group of players fielding, throwing, running and playing together. Each man participating as part of a team! A team wins as one and cannot win without each person doing his job. BUT WHEN A MAN STANDS ALONE AT THE PLATE, WHAT IS IT TIME FOR? IT IS TIME FOR INDIVIDUAL ACHIEVEMENT...." These were the lines out of the "Untouchables" by Al Capone - as best as I can remember them. All this talk about individual rewards is nice after the game is played. But I have yet to hear anyone say I am trying to hit or field to make the all tournament team. That discussion is reserved for after the tournament is over and we are sitting around having a beer. It is merely a perk for being hot during those four days. A very nice perk and one that each person should be proud to receive. Good luck to all participants.
Oct. 19, 2005
Proudtex40
57 posts
Mike,
If I lived in CA I would play on your team in a heartbeat. You have a class team from top to bottom. For the first time since 1973 I only played locally and didn't miss playing in national tournaments this past year and as of now probably won't play tournaments next year either. I enjoyed spending my weekends with my grandbaby or riding my Harley (even old kids needs toys). But, you never know about us softball junkies. We think we want to retire, but then we go out to the field, see all the old teammates playing and you suddenly get the feeling again. Hope you have a great winter and I'll stay in touch.
God Bless,
Steve
Oct. 19, 2005
MK39
Men's 50
333 posts
Proudtex40
Thanks for the kind words and i feel the same about you and how you carried yourself on the ballfield.

I find that i now would rather spend more time with the family as well.

I will only invest 5 to 6 weekends to softball next year.

Got some new golf clubs and hope to find a swing to use them with.
hahaha
Take Care
Mike Kelly
Kelly's Sports/Worth
Oct. 26, 2005
JackR
Men's 65
2 posts
I think you're going in the right direction, but, maybe the opposite managers should add the selections to the official score card. The rest of your suggestion makes great sense.
Oct. 27, 2005
boston
306 posts
All-tourney teams are just fine. Even though we play for fun and the joy of the game. We still are competitors. We go to tournaments because we feel as a team that we are one of the best and want to be recognized as such.
Althogh, it is my contention that All-tourney players should be selected based on offense, defense, and overall play. To base anything on just one aspect of a sport cheats the truly well-rounded athlete.
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