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Online now: 2 members: TABLE SETTER 11, dawg888; 71 anonymousDiscussion: Dead Ball
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| May 20, 2010 Baps 1 posts | Dead Ball In Senior Softball other than someone calling for time, when is the play over and base runners not able to advance? Situation: Runner on third, batted ball base hit to outfield, fielder throws ball to catcher, pitcher covers, ball is tossed to pitcher who walks back to the mound, runner on third advances. Is this a legal play? |
| May 20, 2010 stick8 1992 posts | To answer your question: when the ump calls time. In the situation you describe it's a live ball until the ump calls time. |
| May 20, 2010 titanhd Men's 60 639 posts | Stick is correct.Players only ask for time out .Umpires call (grant) time out. |
| May 20, 2010 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | I believe there used to be rule that once the pitcher had possession of the ball withing the "circle" runners couldn't advance. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. |
| May 23, 2010 Maj + player 16 posts | Bruce, there is not a circle in slo-pitch softball. That is a fastpitch call. As stick8 says, time is out when the umpire calls it. In one man mechanics, as soon as the umpire deems the play over and no runners are still moving in a forward motion towards the next base, he/she should call time out. The umpire should verbally call time out on every play when there are runners on the bases. Umpires, be loud and proud when calling time out so you will stay out of unwanted problems. Good luck to all those playing in Reno next week. I will see most of you there as I will be umpiring. |
| May 23, 2010 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Thanks for correcting me M+. So, what is the call if the umpire deglects to call time? Can a baserunner advance as long as he is on a base when the next pitch is delivered? |
| May 23, 2010 Maj + player 16 posts | Bruce, If the ball is still live, which means the umpire has not called time out, the runner may advance. If the umpire has turned his back on the play, he will probably say that he had called time out. That will be the umpires way out, if he did not see the play. I have worked with umpires who do not think it is necessary to call time out after play has seemed to stop. Just because an umpire turns his back on a play, time out is not automatic. Good umpires will not let this happen, they will call time out as soon as the play seems dead on the field. I hope this explains things. |
| May 25, 2010 stick8 1992 posts | Bruce I've never heard of a pitching "circle" in slowpitch softball. However, in ISA the rules are the ump can only grant time out when the pitcher has secured possession of the ball around the pitching area. |
| May 25, 2010 stick8 1992 posts | Titanhd it was good to meet you this past weekend. You guys made a great run to the finals including that come from behind win Saturday night. Good luck to you guys the rest of the year!! |
| May 27, 2010 Webbie25 Men's 70 2414 posts | Maj+player, I hope we have you umpiring for us. We have had too many umpires assume a play is over without making the timeout call(Lazy?) and all heck breaks loose when a runner advances. Attention to detail.See you in Reno. |
| May 27, 2010 Omar Khayyam 1357 posts | Webbie, you are right on. Was in a tournament game a few years ago. Our guy hits a single to right. Right fielder relays it to second baseman at edge of infield (ump should have called time right then), who lazily tosses it to pitcher, but it gets away and rolls toward third base line. Our player takes off for second (against wishes of first base coach). Pitcher scrambles after ball, throws to second, and throws it away into center field. Now the first baseman is yelling "time out! time out!" but the ump had not called it. Our runner sprints down to third on the over-throw with a stop sign held up by the third base coach who knows that the ump didn't call time. The right center fielder foolishly throws to third which goes wild and bounces crazily off the fence. The coach sends our runner home where he easily scores without a throw being made. The red-faced manager of the other team is out of the dugout, screaming that time was called. Our manager goes out to protest that time was NOT called! The ump listens and then embarrassingly, but honestly, says he did not call time. Now there is a controversy of whether he SHOULD have called time. More guys are out of the dugout. Some are arguing it is a dead ball once the second baseman touched the infield. Others are saying it is always a live ball. Some blame their teammates for throwing it away. Others blame them for throwing it at all. Our runner comes quietly into the dugout with a big smile on his face. Calls are made for the TD to come and adjudicate it. Others say it is not a rule interpretation, it is wholly the ump's call. I think we lost that game eventually, but we only played 6 innings because of the prolonged uproar. May Maj+player's tribe of umpires increase. |
| May 28, 2010 Webbie25 Men's 70 2414 posts | Omar-We had one last year in Pinetop-play Los Vatos Viejos for the championship. Bottom of the 7th. We are down by 3 runs having scored 3 already, bases loaded, one out. Line drive to center and the left center fielder short hops the ball-actually closer to an in-between hop but obvious to all. Our runners were frozen waiting and when it hit-took off and moved up. 2 runs down and bases loaded-right-NO--the ONE umpire calls the catch AND the double play-tournament over. Want to compare stress levels on that one? |
| May 28, 2010 stick8 1992 posts | Omar as one who also plays 50 major plus and has umped numerous tourneys the ump in your scenario technically did not make a mistake. Although that ump could have called time out, just because the second baseman has the ball on the edge of the infield does not automatically mean the ump grants time out. What I do is look at the runners to see where they're at before doing so. If the batter-runner or any other runner is 10 ft or so off first (or any other base) looking to sneak to another base on the pretense you might not be paying attention or thinking you don't have a good throwing arm I'm not calling time out. If the runners are at their bases or a step or two walking back to their bases most likely I'll call time out--both with the ball securely held by an infielder in the infield. Rule of thumb: until the ump calls time out the play is not over-- |
| May 28, 2010 Omar Khayyam 1357 posts | Thanks stick. Hope I get you or your level of competence in the umps in my next tournament. |
| May 30, 2010 stick8 1992 posts | Thanks for the prop Omar. I had a similar situation as described above yesterday in a one day mens festival tourney. Man on 1st one out. Batter hits one in the right center gap. Runner on first (a very FAST runner) is motoring around the bases. Throw comes into the second baseman who immediately raises the ball up and yells "time." The fast runner never stopped going around third so so I did not grant him time out. Runner scored easily and the second baseman couldn't figure out why he didn't get time. |
| May 30, 2010 Omar Khayyam 1357 posts | Right on, stick! Haven't we all seen it dozens, (hundreds?) of times that a defensive player will want to call time when the play is still happening! You're a wise ump (and frankly, most umps ignore this obvious appeal to stop play to cover up defensive inadequacies) to let the play end naturally before granting a time out. |
| May 31, 2010 stick8 1992 posts | Absolutely Omar. I've long been amazed at players who have played competitive ball for years really don't know all the rules. Here's another one from a couple years ago which was in a world tournament. No one on base, nobody out. Batter gets a base hit to left field. After the batter-runner rounded first, the left fielder, who must have thought he was "mr arm", decided to try and throw behind the runner at first base. The throw went by everybody and thru an opening in the fence (no gate to close). Dead ball the runner gets third. The defensive team manager argued he only gets second. My partner explained the batter runner was past first base at the time of the throw running toward second. Then he asked for help. Runner was past first at the time of the throw. Then he argued it's not his teams fault that their was no gate on the fence. I thought he was kidding but he was serious. I told him to ask the park manager to give him the name of the field architect and deal with him and I walked away. Then the "you guys are the worst umpires ever" schpeel or words to that effect came out. No cussing or anything else deragatory however. We could have tossed him but his team was getting mercied so he was going to stay and experience the azz whupping his team was getting. |
| May 31, 2010 lemons Men's 65 323 posts | An observation...........far too many umpires immediately call time as soon as the ball is returned to the infield and without regard to where the runners are at that time. I'm glad you guys know how the game is supposed to be played and facilitated! |
| June 4, 2010 Omar Khayyam 1357 posts | stick, great story! I like the twist that you and your partner as the umps let the game play on, partly to see a team of whiners get a whuppin! |
| June 4, 2010 stick8 1992 posts | Oh gosh Omar, I, like I'm sure many umpires could write a book about stuff like that. For me it would be even easier in basketball. I'll leave you with one short one. Losers bracket game. Team A was getting beat. Their SS had a horrible game, booted several balls, took a called third, hit into two dp's, etc. After a close play at first where I had an out he became unglued and started with the f-bombs. Automatic ejection. After the game, my last one of the day, he comes up to me while I'm getting my bag off the fence. Calls me a disgrace, how'd they ever let you ump and the worst umpire of all time--the whole nine yards. Since I was done for the day and the tourney I told him "I didn't make all those errors at short, I didn't take a called third, i didn't pop out with the bases loaded, I didn't hit into two dp's". He then said. "well that's not very professional of you to say". Then I said, "I know, that's why I'm the worst umpire ever". If looks could kill that guy would have died right there. |
| June 4, 2010 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | yeah umps need to look to see what the runners are doing first,before calling time,its not auto just b/c the ball is in the infield.i have been known to call it even when an outfielder has the ball running it in and no one looking to advance. stick trying to think of something else you could of told him,but i think you covered it all.LOL. |
