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Discussion: what will you

Posted Discussion
June 29, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
what will you
do when the ball changes does come(as the insurance companies are really looking hard into the hot equipment end)and it will come to it.will you quit and take up some other sport(golf,fishing ,etc)or still play softball.
personally i will still play,along with my fishing and golf i do now.
please try and just answer the question i have put forth and no posts about what the majority will do,only yourself.
June 29, 2010
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
I'll belive it when I see it.
June 29, 2010
Slowest Pitch
Men's 75
14 posts
I'll continue to play. At my age, I don't have that many years left.
June 29, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Of course I'll still play, happily!
And golf when time permits. =)
June 29, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Much ado about nothing.
Right on, Sal.
June 29, 2010
DoubleL10
Men's 65
833 posts
In our Oklahoma City "senior" league (ages 43+), we've already gone to the Worth Classic M which does not hold up in the summer heat here. Also, we swing USSSA bats - no senior bats are allowed. In our just completed summer league, I only saw about 5 Home Runs. I just worked on my backside swing and hit a lot that way. Didn't even try to jack one out all league (one did scrape out though!). I'll still play and work harder on the base-hitting aspects of the game rather than trying to drive the ball in the gaps.
June 29, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Larry.
Doesn't sound like fun to me.
Are you going to SPA?
I just learned I am.
Hope to see you there.
June 29, 2010
DoubleL10
Men's 65
833 posts
Joe, I use the league for BP and BS with the guys! We do have a good time and great team chemistry. I will be going to Dalton with the Texas 60s. I'll be looking up my friends in the higher echelon while there!
June 29, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
It doesn't get any higher than the level
you play at Larry.
You can hit with the best.
Good luck and I look forward
to seeing you, there.
June 29, 2010
turn2
486 posts
Joe,
Who are you playing with? Have a safe trip and see you there.
l
Later
Donnie
June 29, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Donnie.
55's MTC.
Can't wait to see you, Clatta,
Andy and the boys.
June 29, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Donnie.
I know how much you like good balls and bats when we played in Phoenix
a couple of years ago and you double dipped us, you guys threw in
a brand new ball at the beginning
of each inning helping to ignite
your offense.
June 29, 2010
Jawood
Men's 50
798 posts
The Trump 44-375 seems like a fair ball. If they change to a ball that doesn't go anywhere, they will lose a ton of teams. They have to know that!
June 30, 2010
turn2
486 posts
Joe,
I am sure with the heat in Dalton the ball will be soft again this year. I will have to bring a FEW extra dollars to buy some extra balls to hit. Good luck and I will see you there.
Donnie
June 30, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
They do, Jawood.
Those on all sides know it will be
about participation and money.
No players, no tournaments.
We have a game we enjoy
and all this smoke blowing
and self interest
aren't going to displace us.
And JW,
that Baden Fire ball held up well
in 100 degrees sun, too.
June 30, 2010
terryspears
Men's 55
38 posts
I'll play as long as the other team uses the same equipment. Anytime, anywhere.
June 30, 2010
GT
Men's 60
162 posts
We just had 2 tournaments held in Pasadena, Tx and used the Trump 44/375. Both days the heat index was between 107 and 112. It didn't stop the home run production at all. I don't see anything wrong with this ball. Never heard a complaint about the ball. We are satisfied with this ball and don't have any problems playing with any ball both use. We sure don't lose any teams for our local tournaments due to balls. Its more about teams sponsoring themselves and having the money to play and playing so many tournaments. It still comes down the money much more then equipment and add having enough healthy players as the second condition. Least, thats how I see it.
GT
Houston, Tx
June 30, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
well out of 16 posts(some more than once)4 have answered the question put forth(said they would still play).how hard is it for people to answer a question.
as usual the nay sayer has refuse to answer a question,but comes on here with his usual BS.
the question was not what ball we want to use,but would you still play if and when we go to the 52-275 ball,or what sport would you take up if you choose not to play.
June 30, 2010
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
I would and the 300 or so players in our league would. We play to enjoy the game and as said above what difference does it make as long as both teams are using the same equipment.

We presently use the 52/275's and no one has quit yet because of the ball.
June 30, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Thanks, Fred.
You're an inspiration at 75 plus
still playing with any equipment.
Way to go.
Yet,
we, the great majority of players
who play at SSUSA tournaments,
SPA tournaments, NCSSA tournaments,
Huntsman Games and LVSSA tournaments,
ALL, support and endorse
minimum of good 44x375 balls
like Trump or Baden Fire
and senior 1.2 bats.

There's a ton of smoke blowing,
self interest and fear mongering
going on which amounts
to a whole lot of nothing to us.
There's no convincing evidence
we need to change from our game
to some other game
nor will there be.
If safety were REALLY an issue
there's many ways to make the game
safer that wouldn't take away
the fun
but knock yourself out
as long as you don't hurt yourselves
or anyone else.
Have a blast.
June 30, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Also,
you can sponsor tournaments
advertising using that 52 x 275 ball
and see who's coming
and we'll continue to play and pay for
the tournaments we'll attend.
Sounds fair enough, eh?
What do you think the results would be?
June 30, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Also, let me say that the slide
to 44 x 375 balls was never acceptable
to me or lots of others.
I only support the 375 x 44 limit
for practical reasons.
As LVSSA shows,
better balls = more fun.
Lively bats and balls forever.

June 30, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
just don't understand what is so hard about answering a question.
4 more posts and only 1 answer,thanks fred guess you can read.
June 30, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
A Hobson's Choice
if ever was one.
It ain't happening or gonna happen.
Like what would you do
if planet becomes so polluted
everything you touch or breathe
or see will make you sick?
Will I play ever, if softball
becomes not worth my investment?
Not a chance.
June 30, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Usually this many answers in defense signals concern. Why else continue to harp?
If the subject is so moot or "so much ado about nothing" why waste time with it?
It seems to me the TRUE long ball guys really shouldnt care about what ball is used, they can jack out a rolled up sock if necessary.
June 30, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
You're groping, John
and derogative, too.
You can play with that 52x275 piece of crap if you want
but why can't the rest of us
play with what we want.
If you really like playing a slower
game, knock yourself out.
But most of don't.
NCSSA, SPA, SSUSA, Huntsman
and LVSSA have all spoken for us,
John and will continue through
all this shinola.

July 1, 2010
Webbie25
Men's 60
1983 posts
I have been playing softball for 42 yrs through good and bad bats, good and bad balls, and the overriding idea is I love tha game. Of course I will continue to play as long as the good Lord allows me to, with whatever equipment is mandated.
July 1, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
well looks like the majority that has posted will still play.also looks like some people can't read,one in particular has posted 11 times with nothing but whiny comments about having to have the hottest stuff out there,when that was not the question asked,i will say he did finally answer with his 10th post,but we had to filter thru the crap that came with it.as usual we had the name calling come with it.
all you guys that posted(the majority)and answered,thanks for your input and will see ya on the diamond regardless of equipment.
July 1, 2010
Jawood
Men's 50
798 posts
What did you want everyone to do? Say "Yes I will play" or "No I'm not going to play"? That would be a little boring.
July 1, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Groping for what Joe? Derogatory how? For stating the obvious?
You continue to drop association names like they belong to you. All I have said is there appears to be a change coming, maybe with the ball maybe with the bats. Time will tell.
IF we do change balls maybe your local association will stand up against the mightly powers making the changes.
If not I'll be sorry to see you go.
July 1, 2010
JamesLG
303 posts

If the new ball still perofrms I don't think you will see much loss in participation but if it is a dud I will play local stuff but will not pay the $ to travel and play a the softball version of 6' and under rec basketball.
Thanks:

James
July 1, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
jawood,and your point is.i just want to know who will still play and not have read all the whining about a ball change.i also ask what sport would you go to if you decide not to play softball with the 52-275 ball.right now usssa(and nsa is going to it as others are also looking into it) uses the 52-275 ball and the kids are starting to like it(no more cheaters).i played a utrip tourney last weekend with the kids and still got my hits and watched the kids still hit balls out,no mishits going out like senior ball,tho.

jameslg,the ball will still be hit out by the hr hitter,you will not get that mishit hr anymore(which we shouldn't be getting anyways).the ball gets thru the infield with enough speed for most anyone.
July 1, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
First, there's nothing but smoke
blowing going on about changing anything.
SSUSA, NCSSA, LVSSA and Huntsman
all have endorsed good 44x375 balls
and senior bats.
Second, it's up to us to decide
what equipment to use by our choice
to participate or not and the associations will fall in line
Third, the arguments are not convincing
that we need to 'cure' our game
by dumbing/slowing down the game
for everyone
Fourth, there's a ton of self interest
disguised as altruisim
and safety interests
parading around these arguments.
It's all about money, honey
as we all know.
Will I/you roll over and "take it"
lying down when/if we get pushed
around with some Hobson's Choice?
Hell no.
As James said,
if it's not worth playing
it ain't worth investing in
or going anywhere
and we're not alone.
July 1, 2010
Jawood
Men's 50
798 posts
My point was already made earlier in the discussion. The kids were hitting the ball out at your USSSA with their shaved bats. That's one thing we don't have to worry about (I think) with the bat/ball combo as it is now in seniors.
July 2, 2010
Eddie12
14 posts
I will play Charles Laughton in this one and say hell no I will not play. With the heat out here in Arizona a 275 ball will be more like a pillow fight then a softball game!
July 2, 2010
JohnBob
Men's 60
248 posts
I have no problem with the 44x375 ball but feel no ball hotter should be used with the senior bats. The only rule talked about on here if applied would cause me to stop playing is a screen!!
July 2, 2010
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
If you are talking about changes in the ball used in SSUSA, LVSSA, SPA, etc, I would probably only play local tournaments. My team certainly would not be going to Dalton in a couple of weeks. How many of those replying that they would still play are speaking of local rec league play? Would you still attend the "Natioonal" tournaments? Would you spend the money?
July 2, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
A small group of people are
pushing this agenda for us, at us
and banking on the fact
that senior softball players
if not all softball players
will 'roll over' for whatever
"is mandated" by the associations
and be grateful no one has asked
we take off our pants and shirts, yet.
They don't think we have what it takes
to say NO and stand up for ourselves.
I say they're wrong but if not,
we will deserve what we get.
July 2, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Use any bat and ball anyone wants to use, as long as it does NOT result in any silly, stupid rules.
July 2, 2010
Jose #12
Men's 60
86 posts
This is about the millionth time this specific subject has been discussed.

Same repsonses each time about the changes needed in the bat/ball combination.

However, league play and tournaments are two separate entities.

I wish we used good balls and senior bats in our leagues, but we don't. I somewhat understand because there is a wide discrepency in the talent level and ages within the the players in the league.I won't quit playing locally.

But I will say, again and again, my team would not be travelling to tournaments and incur the expenses we do without having the opportunity to use our Senior bats and a good ball.

So mad dog, this may be hedging, but I do truly belive my opinion is an accurate reflection of the players on my travel team and the players I have spoken to at the tourneys in which we have participated.

July 2, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Jose, I am sure you are speaking for your team and perhaps others as well. But that is so sad that guys need to do things with the huge help from someone else's technology to have a good time.

Whatever happened to playing on a level playing field for the sake of the competition?
July 2, 2010
Bomber #7
Men's 60
62 posts
Haven't we been doing just that since the aluminum bat came out? Technology has advanced the sport of softball to a nationally competed sport from a Sunday local picnic game. With all the associations, seems to me tech. has advanced our competition. It looks to me, all playing fields are level, we all get to use the same equipment.
July 2, 2010
Jose #12
Men's 60
86 posts
Dirty, I love to play at any level and occasionally still play with the youngin's. I still workout, try to stay in shape, but let's face it, at 64 you can't create the same bat speed you did when you were 25.

Using the senior bats gives me the illusion (at least for a little while) that I can still hit like I once did. I love the feel and sound of hitting with the senior bats. Let those that want to use them and let the others who yearn for bombats and SB 12's create their own tournaments.

By the way, some of the worked bats the kids use approach senior bats anyway.
July 2, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Theres no argument that we love our Senior bats and the 44/375 ball. Technology has given us back what Mother Nature took away with age. Now the problem is, tecnology is still progressing and as we age we slow down. Safety aside (different issue) we no longer have the ability to make what use to be routine defensive plays. I know there are many of us that think Slo Pitch Softball isnt a defensive oriented game, and that is true, however there are also many of us who take a great deal of pride in playing defense. Or use to.
For those who say "Create your own tournaments" (and its not just you #12)
there are just as many of us who want the slower game as there are those who want the Lively game.

Theres our dilema...........

Happy Independence Day boy & girls! Stay safe.
Lets remember what this day is all about.
July 2, 2010
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
E4/E6.....you say that there are just as many of you that want the slower game, therefore, you (they) should not have any problem creating your own tournaments.

A Happy 4th to all!
July 3, 2010
Jose #12
Men's 60
86 posts
salio2k...I agree.

E4/E6...I don't see a problem. Play the game you enjoy. If, as you say, there are as many who prefer the slower game, then use the board and your influence to have tournaments with restricted equipment.

If there is as much support as you say there is money to be made..."build it and they will come". There are enough seniors to support both.

Happy 4th everyone
July 3, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
John,
With all respect, you miss the point.
We've ALWAYS wanted lively bats
and balls, at every levels,
since we were kids.
Lively is good.
Too lively is even better/funner
but you want to take away lively
all together.
Not happenin' any time, soon.
July 3, 2010
Jawood
Men's 50
798 posts
Moving the bases and pitching rubber back would make the game slower in that there would be more reaction time for fielders and allow for the same bat/ball combination. A shortstop could turn a doubleplay from the hole, an outfielder could hold a hitter to first on a ball down the line, a pitcher would have more time to make a play and protect himself up the middle. Scores would be lower, games would be closer and more teams would be given the chance to win.

When we all started in this game, the bases were at 60'. They then moved to 65'. They can easily be moved again.
July 3, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
jawood,moving everything back,puts the senior player's arm at a disadvantage,also most parks won't cut the inf back for the longer distance and we still will be at the same playing distance from the batter.if we go deeper(into the grass) than you have the lip from the inf affecting you(and i have seen some nasty injuries from a ball hitting the lip of the inf).

but now back onto subject,who would still play and if not what sport would you take up.

July 3, 2010
Jawood
Men's 50
798 posts
Most fields are already cut deep enough for an extra 5 feet. What infielder plays right behind the lip?
July 3, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
are you saying the majority of the fields are already set for the longer bases,personally i haven't seen it,MAYBE a 1/3 of the fields MIGHT be that way.
i see a lot of SS/2b playing back into the grass,any where's from 5-15' back.the longer bases require longer throws and more pressure on our old arms.longer bases will not slow down the rockets hit with this hot bat/ball combo,also will not give the inf anymore time to field it.
July 3, 2010
Jawood
Men's 50
798 posts
No, you are right, most are not set for longer bases, but most are CUT for them. If any infielder plays further back, doesn't that give him more time to react to the ball? Physics? A SS can play deep with a runner on first but obviously couldn't play 15' on the grass with no one on base unless he has a cannon which most don't.
July 3, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Jawood, great idea
and another way to solve some of our problems without killing the game
and satisfying only a few.
With the pitcher and the infielders back farther, given adrenaline and anticipated
reactions the game would be safe enough.
July 3, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
jawood there in lies your problem,senior arms are not as good as they used to be,so moving them back to make a longer throw is not good.we have enough prols now trying to get guys to play on the 3b/ss side of the field,just bc they no longer have the arm they had as a kid.makes for a rough time for the 1b to have to be scooping everything out of the dirt.

i say than lets move the fences back also,maybe 25-30 feet,make the hr a real hit and not these 305' mishits that get to go over.
July 3, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Great idea, Jaywood
but the zealous movement to dumb down
the ball isn't interested in any other
ways to solve problems.
One notish, self interested and ignorant
is the idea to solve any/all difficulties/problems with seniors and all of softball by keeping guys
from hitting the ball hard and well.
Hitting the ball hard and well
is intrinsic to our game,
and will kill the attempt to redefine us
and our game.
We're not going anywhere.
July 3, 2010
DCPete
235 posts
Don't move the fences back; that will turn routine singles into doubles & triples. Raise the fences to 20 or 30 feet high like they did with the nets in Vegas last year.
July 3, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
If you need to be "redefined" at our age there is a serious problem.

Bob, again I will say, yes I'll play with whatever is legal and available. When I choose to not play any longer I'll play more golf.
I could give a rats ass what ball, bat or other equipment we use. I'll play our game and love it just as much.
All I am saying and this is just me, I would like to be able to play my defensive position like it was meant to be played and not from deep on the grass.
One last thing, there is no majority on this board. And certainly not on this subject.
July 4, 2010
boston
306 posts
I play in a USSSA league w/ the young guys. We us the Classic M and of course USSSA bats. We have 5 seniors on this team and 2 of use have no problem hitting the ball deep. The other 3 seniors aren't HR hitters anyway. I even use my USSSA bat in seniors and still hev no problem hitting the ball hard. But, to answer the question, I would play. When I'm not playing I'm umpiring softball and coaching baseball. I LOVE THE GAME, PERIOD.
July 4, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
John.
I have NEVER heard from any player
at any level that they want to play
without a good bat and ball combo.
Not one.
It's obvious the most to all of us want good bats and balls and the major associations
have recognized this and mandated
as such for the rest of the year
when they all had the chance
to jump on the "safety first" band wagon.
Sorry, John.
I like you and your to be respected
for your love of the game
and your capability but the clear majority and it's not even close
don't want the ball/game changed
down.
July 4, 2010
Jawood
Men's 50
798 posts
Second that, Einstein. I have never heard from anyone either that they don't want a good bat/ball combo.
July 4, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
the question is would you play,not what you want.anyone asked will always say they want to hit the ball 400',ask what they want to field,how about that.
DCpete they are already doubles bc of the outfielders having to play so deep now.
July 4, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Joe, thats why I said "just me" I cant and wont pretend to speak for other grown men and women.
If you have been paying attention there have been several posts asking for a more balanced game. How that is achieved is anyones guess. My suggestion was with the ball.
I will still be able to hit most any ball 300 + feet, of that I'm sure, how much further is necessary? For ME, nothing further is necessary when called for. Am I willing to give up the 120mph missle on the ground or linedrive, yes I am, if it brings back the chance of making a defensive play.
Some say our game is an offensive oriented game, it is also suppose to have some reasonable amount of defense, otherwise every inning would end with a 5 spot on the score board, which in my opinion happens far too often now.
Offense, Defense, and Strategy shaped our game. I for one would like to see it come back.
Joe you know I also respect you and a lot of what you have to say on and off the field. We are close in what we feel should take place with our game. With some work I'm sure we will someday be even closer.
July 4, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
"If it ain't broken
don't fix it", should be our mantra,
John.
We're being told by a very few
our game is broken and/or we should be ashamed of all the fun we're having
and you know something,
it's just not true.
You were in Reno and we had a blast,
didn't we?
We play with lively bats and balls
every weekend in NorCal and have a blast.
There's nothing wrong with our game
that some minor adjustments
or like Gary says
no adjustments can fix.
This global move to slow down everyone
and the entire game
isn't called for and self interested
and wrong.
And more are seeing it everyday.



July 5, 2010
spoonplugger
Men's 60
58 posts
No,I would not spend the money to travel to any tournaments that do not use a good bat/ball combination. I'll still play in my area. I'll still fish and play golf.
July 5, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Mother Nature has her own ideas on slowing us down Joe.
There comes a point that we will need to slow down the game a tad to stay with her. Otherwise the defense will be no more then spectators. How fun will that be? Reminds me of the San Diego Fair this weekend, guys hitting off a tee for distance at on of the booths.

You got me on Reno, even though we finished in the middle of the pack, we still had fun!
July 5, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
E/E6,would you still have had fun without the hot bat/ball combo tho.

on a side note,its sad that old guys really have the ego prol that the young ones do,got to be able to hit a ball 400' to have fun.

spoonplugger thanks for the answer,exactly the question i asked and you answered.
July 5, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Bobby, I would have fun with anything they throw on the field. For me its not about how high tech our equipment is, for me its about the game, my team mates and friends, pure and simple. Let me repeat, FOR ME.

I do have to admit I like the feel of a good ball coming off my U2, but I also liked the feel of both of my ex-wives. I managed to get over that enjoyment and moved on to much better feelings. =)
July 5, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
And Joe it wasnt broken BEFORE the composites came along, somehow and who know how that was, we managed to squeek out a little fun.
July 5, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
So, you DO say our game is broken.
The defense rests.
July 5, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Sure I do, however broken to me is the opposite of broken to you. Still its broken. And yes its still fun.

BUT and its a very big BUT,

Because of the above the Defense gets to rest far too much.
July 7, 2010
Webbie25
Men's 60
1983 posts
Vegas did have the nets-and I hit 3 balls into it to keep them in the park.(HR rule and situation). They also had 70 foot bases which did make a difference. The only problem with longer bases and longer fences is that the area to cover defensively goes up exponentially, especially in the outfield and these old legs can't cover it. We can't throw the ball far enough or hard enough for a larger field.
When the Orange Crush Techfire, or the EST's came out-everybody thought they were hot. They were!! I can still hit it out with mine. Why is it the end of the world to go back to a bat that was once 'THE' bat? We used to have a saying about a long bomb-nice shot, but it's only one run-no matter how far it went.
I will not stop playing until I have to, either way.
July 7, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Love your comments, Webbie.
The ball we were using then
was a 47 x 525 blue dot
and those days were great.
But the movement is not to go back to those days but to make BOTH the balls
AND the bats lesser.
I'll go back to a good single wall bat
and a good Blue dot ball
anyday.
But that's not what's being talked about.
We must have lively bats and balls
to make our game work at any age.
There's just no way around it.
July 8, 2010
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
Webbie25,
Are you talking about the Winter World in Vegas..we played there, but we never saw any nets.
July 8, 2010
Webbie25
Men's 60
1983 posts
I can't remember the name of the fields, but we had nets on the field we played on.I'm getting old, I guess-was it Chapparral? I do remember breaking a cable on my 21 year old blue CTI brace I wear-had to get a new one.
Einstein-that's what I have been saying all along-take the edge off-just a step back to what was lively before the composites.Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater and make it a single digit game, but take away the need for the 5 run limit, and home run limits.
July 8, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Nothing wrong with a little more lively
if some simple cost-free adjustments
are made to keep the game in perspective.
All the stuff we been talking about forever like 1-1 count,
making the rubber
wider/longer, increasing arc limits,
protective gear up to and including screens would allow the game to be fun
and lively enough for us to keep investing in it and having a blast.
July 8, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
Joe my friend, take a pill. Its over. JK
No more changes.
July 10, 2010
Omar Khayyam
999 posts
mad dog, back once again to your original question: yes, I will still play. It wouldn't be any different than 10 years ago and I, and my entire team, were playing happily then.

The unacknowledged gorilla in the room is that senior softball is plateauing in interest. Take for example, einstein's beloved Nor Cal Senior Softball Association. In 2003, BEFORE Mikens and similar hot composites were legal, there were 97 teams playing and traveling to tournaments. Now, in 2010, with the lively bat/ball combo he promotes there are 105 teams.

But in the meantime, tens of thousands of male softball players have entered the ranks of eligibility for senior softball. And older players, thanks to medicine, are playing longer. Why are there only 8 more teams than there were 8 seasons ago?

Could be a lot of reasons, but one that I have heard is that a lot of players have lost interest as the balanced game they loved for decades has disappeared. Some fear injury from the hot bats (we all know good pitchers who will no longer pitch against a composite). Some were more valuable as defensive players and feel the game has passed them by with the hot bats. Some think the hot bats have cheapened home runs. Some are realistic about their stamina and realize that the larger parks necessitated by the hot bat/ball combo are too much for them.

Throw in the economy, other sports options, etc. etc., but senior softball seems to have plateaued (and maybe rec league softball as well).

mad dog, I enjoy the game—been playing it since I was 13 without a year off. I would play with a sock ball and a broom handle, as long as the conditions are equal. It's the game, the camaraderie, the exercise, the stories that mean a lot to me.
July 10, 2010
DCPete
235 posts
A little misleading to claim the Ultras take the defense out of the game. While it's true there are fewer defensive plays made when using the Ultras, the plays that are made are better and more challenging than with the 52/275 ball which travels more slowly & tends to float in the outfield. As a result, many of the defensive plays with the 52/275 are easy, routine outs again especially those in the outfield.
July 10, 2010
Omar Khayyam
999 posts
Pete, I agree that when a player makes a great defensive play on an Ultra-hit ball, you want to applaud him, even if he's on the other team! But it is the impact on routine, expected defense that I see discouraging players.

Example 1: played with a third baseman about 10 years ago. Hard-nosed, good glove, decent arm, overweight but still got to some that were in the gap. Then came the year of the Mikens. Balls went by him left and right, didn't get to a single ball in the gap. His skills hadn't declined that much in a year, but the ball speed had increased beyond his ability to respond. He quit the team at the end of the year, lost a lot of weight and played a little fill-in in tournaments, but hasn't played in more than 5 years, even in league play.

Example #2: Great outfielder with speed and a sure glove, but an average arm. Was asked to fill in more and more for tired teammates who were exhausted from chasing down shots from hot bats on 300+ fields. Used as a pinch runner too much (not Miken's fault). Found out this year that he has quit senior softball. "Wearing me out" he said. Will he return? Probably not while composite bats are busting the fences.

Anecdotal, of course. But I'm worried that our sport is broken because of the composite bat revolution, and we are losing players and not gaining many new ones to the current game with its over-emphasis on offense and glamour shots over the fence.
July 10, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
dcpete your quote ,"A little misleading to claim the Ultras take the defense out of the game. While it's true there are fewer defensive plays made when using the Ultras."and what part of less(fewer) defensive plays being made and taking defense out of the game doesn't compute.you just said it"fewer defensive plays",equals taking the defense out of the game.
omar again a great post.i have read that overall softball is on a decline from the mid 90's when it peaked,and like you have said,most that leave,have lost interest b/c what you brought out.also along with what you said i have heard that the attitudes of these composite hero's have driven away some.its sad to see leagues shrinking big time b/c of this.i played/umped today in a tourney with the kids.it was a benefit to raise money for our team,and to hear some of these kids on a 275' fence,able to use any bat any 44 cor ball,puff their chests out when hitting a 280' hr,LOL.
July 10, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
850 posts
There can be and have been endless discussions and arguements about the U2 and other composite and senior bats. One thing is undisputable, the Composite bats have had the biggest impact on Senior Softball, more then balls, rules changes, fiberglass, aluminum, or titanium bats. The U2 specifically has had the greatest impact of all. It is by far the hotest piece of equipment available to us todate. Everytime someone talks about another bat, its always compared to the U2.


July 10, 2010
DCPete
235 posts
MD; just making a comparison of defensive Quality vs Quantity but I do like your term of "composite heros". Would make a great title for a new softball book . . .
July 10, 2010
Omar Khayyam
999 posts
E4/E6, I agree with you. I have stopped referring to the Ultra II or the Miken as the "villain" and instead use the term "composite bats." I believe einstein that there are other bats out there as hot as the Miken Ultra II, so why ban just one model (as has happened at the Field of Dreams in California)? But behind the change in the game was certainly the original Miken, and now the Miken II—still the standard by which other bats are measured. With this advent of the super bat, the balanced game of defense, base running, strategy, and offense has been changed.
July 11, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
The game is faster which means better,
more interesting and more fun.
I know that MOST will not play
the slower game of yester-year
if it was in fact slower
which is easily challenged.
Faster without being rocket like
makes hitting more fun
and as some have said
softball is a hitter's game,
always was and always should be.
July 11, 2010
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
E4.
Yet, Combat, DeMarini and Worth bats
are as hot or hotter than
the Ultra 2 rendering the BLD ban
absurd.
Sounds like money/politics talking again,
doesn't it.
July 12, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
DC-and that is the prol now a days,no quantity of plays.it is bad when 120 lbs'er are hitting balls over 350' with these hero bats(as i call them).it used to be a inf could get a lot of balls hit on the ground,now he is lucky to get any,unless hit at him and then it he will be lucky if it doesn't take a bad hop and knock him out. as omar says there is a lot of guys just not playing any more as it is no longer FUN just to stand around and watch the rockets hit out and by them before they can react.it is no longer the game we grew up playing.
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