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Discussion: seen this same question posted on another board.

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Oct. 21, 2010
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
seen this same question posted on another board.
can you still hit a ball 300' with a metal bat(no ti's)single,double wall don't matter.the ball to be used is the ASA 44-375.lets see how real hr hitters we have,or how truthful they can be...
Oct. 21, 2010
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
oops supposed to say "how many real hr hitters"
Oct. 21, 2010
DoubleL10
Men's 65
837 posts
mad dog, Yes, I can (with a 40 MPH tail wind)!
Oct. 21, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
855 posts
Just my point all along Bob, Yes I have hit 300+ with most of my double walls. All of which are now in the form of a Honda or some other import.
Oct. 22, 2010
Omar Khayyam
1004 posts
Never mind the double wall, I tried for 50 years with a single wall (wood at first) metal bat and never came close, so I concentrated on being a singles hitter. Then along comes the composite and suddenly I can park them over the fence. At my age! With my peanut frame! What a farce and why I would like to return to real softball, the softball of my first half century, and the softball enjoyed and loved by millions for decades before the game was tampered with by the super bat.

No wonder senior players are leaving the game in droves (younger guys, too, for that matter). It no longer rewards the skills of defense and base running and accurate hitting, but focuses on offense and even there cheapens the home run. It makes legitimate home run hitters start bragging about 350, 400, 450 foot shots when they used to be satisfied with just clearing the fence regularly. Bring back the balanced game of only 10 years ago!
Oct. 22, 2010
Lefty
Men's 65
505 posts
mad dog if you remember 10 years ago we were hitting 525/47 core balls. When you got hit with this ball it would hurt and brake bones. To answer your question on hitting it out the park with double wall bats. Larry knows I'm only 5'9" 185lbs and I still can hit out the 300ft park. You guys must have some great balls where ya'll play ball. For the balls we use I don't see that many HR's. I see the same guys hit them every tourneyment. I can see your point if I would hit the Dudley Advance 375/44 core somebody would get hurt. But the balls we hit stay in the sun all day and they don't last very long. I know of this old boy here in Nashville might way 155lbs and looking at him the odds are your thinking come in boys. This old boy can hit it our right or left handed over a 300ft. park with any bat. So you really can judge the book by it's cover unless you know this guy never had HR power. All I care about is hitting the ball well and getting on base. It's just a way for me to stay in shape and live a little longer.
Oct. 22, 2010
Lefty
Men's 65
505 posts
mad dog if you remember 10 years ago we were hitting 525/47 core balls. When you got hit with this ball it would hurt and brake bones. To answer your question on hitting it out the park with double wall bats. Larry knows I'm only 5'9" 185lbs and I still can hit out the 300ft park. You guys must have some great balls where ya'll play ball. For the balls we use I don't see that many HR's. I see the same guys hit them every tourneyment. I can see your point if I would hit the Dudley Advance 375/44 core somebody would get hurt. But the balls we hit stay in the sun all day and they don't last very long. I know of this old boy here in Nashville might way 155lbs and looking at him the odds are your thinking come in boys. This old boy can hit it our right or left handed over a 300ft. park with any bat. So you really can judge the book by it's cover unless you know this guy never had HR power. All I care about is hitting the ball well and getting on base. It's just a way for me to stay in shape and live a little longer.
Oct. 22, 2010
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
larry ,yeah right,you hit them into a headwind ya mean...LOL

E4/E6,just looking to see who thinks they still can,i can,but its more for me to basehit tho.

omar,yep i went from a 10-20% hr hitter to a 50-60% when the hot stuff came out.i do play with the kids a lot in mostly non hr tourneys so that helps me on keeping it in the park for senior play,lots of line drives,till i get used to lifting the ball again.

lefty,hi joe,met ya at dalton(texas legends couple yrs back) yes we did hit those balls,and some would get hurt,but not get seriously injured or killed like what has been happening lately with the composite bats,we also had the 50 cor 600 comp's balls back then.

i just want to see who thinks they can still hit the ball out with metal,only picked the ball b/c its what we use now,and basically the best ball available to us.don't care what mfg'er you use.
Oct. 22, 2010
DCPete
242 posts
O.K. ". . . senior players are leaving the game in droves". Really???
Don't you read this board's News publication?
Per SSUSA, there are 7% MORE teams & 16% MORE players competing in 2010 tournaments than in 2009.
Opinions are one thing but if you're going to try & make factual statements then you really need to mix in a few facts.
Nothing personal, just saying . . .
Oct. 22, 2010
Jose #12
Men's 60
86 posts
DCPete, I agree with you. There seem to be at least as many teams/players as in the past few years.

Omar, I would like to see the stats about the players leaving in droves. We discused this before, I play in wood bat, single and double wall leagues. I would probably play with a tennis ball.....but, playing with the senior bats is the most fun.

Theres something for everyone, let each player make his own choice.

Check out the number of teams playing in Phoenix...and at great expense.Someone is enjoying it.

Play ball
Oct. 22, 2010
Omar Khayyam
1004 posts
DCPete and Jose, good point. I have listed facts several times in other threads and I should have repeated them. And perhaps my facts are California-oriented and they don't apply to other parts of the country (you can tell me if that's true). I would like to hope that softball as a sport is not declining elsewhere as it is in California.

Let's start with tournaments. Seniors, many/most of them on fixed incomes and living on investments and retirement plans, have not been as affected by the recent economic malaise as younger men losing their jobs who had little savings (and maybe a giant mortgage).

But 2009 was a scary year for seniors as many of us saw a 40% drop in our savings and retirement funds! Lots of guys didn't want to pay for tournaments in such an unsettled environment, but 2010 saw a restoration of much of that loss (look at the rising stock market) and it doesn't surprise me that tournament attendance is up. But it doesn't equate to more players, just more seniors willing to spend money for the joy of tournaments.

As to players, I have access to the team registration records of the Northern California Senior Softball Association for the last ten years. In that time, the total number of registered teams has risen by 7%. But demographically, the total number of seniors who could be playing softball has risen by 15%.

You have to be 50 years old to join the NCSSA. So every year, there is a new crop of once 49-year-olds now able to join. At the other end, there is no cut-off age. The NCSSA has teams in their 75s, even 80s. With advancing health care, better nutrition, more emphasis on being fit, etc., there are a lot of older men who could still effectively play softball, but what has happened to them?

Of course injury, illness, and even death has taken its toll, but this is nothing new. The number of 50s teams in 2000 should equal approximately the number of 60s teams in 2010. And the number of 70s teams in 2010 should be just a bit less than the number of 60s teams in 2000. But this is not so.

The senior guys are no longer playing softball in the same numbers. The reason? The game is not as fun; it is more dangerous; it is biased toward power hitters; etc. These are all complaints I have heard from guys I know who no longer play softball, or at least no more tournaments with their faster conditions (NorCal is pretty much a SSUSA area which means lively balls and senior bats).

And the same holds true in local recreational leagues with younger men. Ask any rec director. 10 years ago, you had to beg to get on a team because the number of fields limited the size of leagues, and those fields were full. Weekend leagues were added, and still it was hard to play league softball.

Now, the younger guys are dropping out. There are plenty of openings. Weekend leagues are disappearing. The only thing that keeps softball vibrant is the phenomenal growth in women's leagues and coed leagues because of the rise in women's softball, particularly at the college level.

Why are younger guys dropping out (unless they are playing coed with their gals)? The same reasons, it seems, that older guys are leaving—lack of fun, safety, and opportunity for average-built guys.

As I said, I hope I'm wrong. Tell me about clubs and rec departments in other parts of the country that are growing—not from population growth, like Arizona and Texas—but from popularity. Tell me about areas where these same clubs and rec leagues are even holding their own with the same number of teams, and in the case of senior softball, more teams because of the improved health of older players.
Oct. 22, 2010
Omar Khayyam
1004 posts
Forgot to mention that the NCSSA has seen an uptick this year in teams, but this is due to a new policy allowing guys to double roster on teams in the same age category. Thus, the same number of guys, or less, formed more teams because they were on two rosters.
Oct. 22, 2010
E4/E6
Men's 60
855 posts
IMO, SSUSA puts on premier events. The Worlds in Phoenix is acknowleged as just that. Every team and player who comes to play knows they will be playing the very best. With that in mind of course they will draw more and more each year. Teams and players dont come because of the bats and balls or where they are playing. They come for the competition. To see how their team stacks up against others.
As long as the equipment is perceived to be good thats really all we ask.
Oct. 23, 2010
Jose #12
Men's 60
86 posts
Omar, as always you make passionate and lucid points. In my area (Pa-De-Nj)there does not seem to be a fall off of players and/or teams.

Granted, the majority of the leagues are of the single wall variety. There is only one senior bat league that is very well attended. The majority of the players in the non senior bat leagues are not tournament players and would probably not be suited to face senior bats.

The more competitive players from these leagues do enjoy going to tournaments to face the best competition with the best equipment. That's the nature of the beast. Play at the level where you are most comfortable and have the most fun.

As to the economics, I do agree that it is getting harder and harder to finance what is essentially a childs habit. Therfore our team usually only goes to one tournament a year requiring airfare. The rest are regional where car travel is the norm. Some stay 2-3-4 to a room to lesson their expenses.

I feel tournament players (at least in this area) know what they are getting into and love playing with the high-tech equipment.

It appears that a good portion of the peope who come on the board are from the western states, I'd love to sit down and discuss these topics in person but Ft. Myers is the furtherst our team ventures.

I'm playing 60's (Stahl Post) and 65's (De. Stars) in Ft. Myers. If any of you are there, look me up.
Oct. 23, 2010
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
well a lot of answer about senior playing and passions,but what about the question,can you/or not, hit a ball out with a metal bat.
Oct. 23, 2010
Omar Khayyam
1004 posts
mad dog, thanks for getting us back to your question on the thread. To repeat my answer: No.
Oct. 23, 2010
Jose #12
Men's 60
86 posts
mad dog, I couldn't hit one out with a metal bat or a senior bat. At least not on 300 foot fences. Not many I've known could hit it out with a metal bat. Sorry we got off the original thread.
Oct. 23, 2010
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
jose#12,are you a glove man than,lol..i was able to,but was known more for my singles/doubles than hrs.people knew i could but it was like 1-10 for me.
Oct. 23, 2010
Jose #12
Men's 60
86 posts
I have been known to bring my glove with me. I am a singles/doubles hitter. If I could hit them out (even 1 out of 10), I'd probably be a .100 hitter, because I would try to hit one out everytime. My average, like others improves with the senior bats.
Oct. 24, 2010
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
jose,yep know how ya feel.

still looking for all the metal hr hitters,don't we any more...........
Oct. 25, 2010
Webbie25
Men's 60
1995 posts
mad dog-I can still hit them out with my orange crush techfire, but I have to really hit it. As you know, I am a proponent of stepping a pace back to a bat similar to the techfire and maybe a step back UP to the 47/525 ball. That was a great combo when it was in vogue. Smaller sweet spot would make a big difference, too. I am also one that enjoys the defensive side. It about killed me this weekend not to be able to play outfield in Phoenix. It is as much fun to make a diving catch or throw someone out as it is to hit a long dinger.
By the way, one of our pitchers got hit by a line drive and broke his thumb yesterday. He normally plays shortstop. He didn't have a chance. Obviously unintentional.
You realize that if they ever do back it off some, Einstein will be pointing to every pitcher or infielder that gets hit and say "See, it still happens".
Oct. 25, 2010
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
yes webbie, i do understand he'll do that,but we won't have to be visiting them in the hospital,or going to their funeral.

i didn't like the crush,but loved the rage(blue) and fury(red) they made.
yes with the 44-375 ball it would put a premium on hitting the sweet spot,not just getting close like with the senior bats.
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