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Discussion: correct call ASA rules

Posted Discussion
Sept. 4, 2005
Larry S
37 posts
correct call ASA rules
Runners on 1st & 3rd, one out.
Fly ball caught by outfielder.
Runner on first thrown out returning to base. Runner on third tagged after catch & scored before runner thrown out at first.
Does run count?
Sept. 5, 2005
JTS2
Men's 55
88 posts
Run scores
Sept. 5, 2005
BillyMac
Men's 55
91 posts
I think that the run does "not" score, as it was a double play with a force out at first on the returning runner. Not positive though.
peace
Hit to WIN!!!!
B Mac
Sept. 5, 2005
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
billy mac it is not considered a force as in the double play rule,the run scores as the play at first is an appeal play.had this come up before as an ump
Sept. 5, 2005
Larry S
37 posts
This was in Burlington. One ump said yes, one said no, They called the ASA official and he said NO. Cannot find in ASA rule book.
Sept. 5, 2005
TexasTransplant
Men's 70
424 posts
The out at first is a live ball appeal, not a force play. If the runner from 3rd crosses the plate before the out he (she) scores. I think this one has been debated on the Mohr board in the past.
Sept. 5, 2005
KillAbrew
Men's 60
55 posts
ASA Rules:
Points of Emphasis:
#21. FORCE OUT
2nd sentence: It is not possible to have a force out on a caught fly ball, as the batter is no longer a runner.

SO::::::::
The run counts as long as the run scored prior to the out at first.
Sept. 5, 2005
Joncon
289 posts
Run scores.

Softball 101 but a lot of umps don't know this simple rule.

It is NOT a force, but rather a TIMING play.
Sept. 5, 2005
lilab5
Men's 60
3 posts
The run scores before the lastout. If you have umpire for league or tour you should know the rule. Asa and usssa are the same on that rule. Lil Ab 5
Sept. 5, 2005
Steve
Men's 55
24 posts
KillAbrew hit it on the head. It is NOT a forceout by rule and run stands if it scores before the out is made at first.
Sept. 5, 2005
Steve
Men's 55
24 posts
This rule is ALWAYS on the test. Umps cannot miss this one.
Sept. 5, 2005
Downs
50 posts
Downs-Seattle: the majority of you have the call correct. As having served 10 years as the UIC in the Women's College World Series, it is a common question which often results in a wrong call by the umpires. Yes, it is referred to as a "Time Call" and is actually an appeal play. As the rule states you cannot have a force out on a caught fly ball, it depends on whether the run scores before the tag of the runner or the base prior to his/her return to the base left at the time the ball was hit. If the tag was made as stated, after the runner crossed the plate, then the run DOES count. The miss interpretation or application of the rule can be protested, however, the judgement of the umpire cannot be protested. Therefore it is important for the caoch to determine if the umpire is miss applying the rule or saying the rag was made before the runner crossed the plate.
Sept. 5, 2005
Downs
50 posts
Downs-Seattle: sorry, last sentence was supposed to read "tag:, not "rag". See what happens when you get old. You have senior moments.
Sept. 7, 2005
KillAbrew
Men's 60
55 posts
Are there any of thses umpire tests on line to view some of the often missed plays?
Sept. 8, 2005
BillyMac
Men's 55
91 posts
Thanks for straightening that out for me fellas. As I said, I wasn't positive; but I am now. Thanks again.
peace
Hit to WIN!!!!
Sept. 8, 2005
Downs
50 posts
Downs-Seattle: BillyMac & Killabrew, I know of no umpire's tests that are on any of the websites. However, the thing that has always amazed me is that the coaches and managers DO NOT attend the annual ASA Umpires Rules Clinics (not umpires schools) that are made available to anyone that pays the entry fee. (Very cheap) They go over all rules, starting at an entry level and any changes or new rules too. They teach rule interpretations and proper applications. It is the coaches and managers that are responsible for making sure the umpire is correct or for challenging him/her. It is obvious that the umpires are not always right. Also, it is honestly rather difficult to read a rule book as the items are categorized under a single heading and you lose track of that as you scroll down looking for your issue of concern. However, I always taught my new umpires to at least read the back of the ASA rule book, under th section titled "Points of Emphasis". This section breaks down the proper application of the major rules such as your "Time Call" which also applies for missed first base and missed home plate. The umpire is to "hesitate" then call safe. That play is over and only when the defense makes the required appeal by tagging the runner or tagging the base does the umpire change his call to OUT! It also addresses the NO FORCE on a flyball issue. Good reading as you are going to learn a lot of things you thought you knew to be right before, that really isn't so. Jim
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