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Discussion: How many Worlds can 1 team win before having to move up to the next highest division

Posted Discussion
Sept. 18, 2005
MK39
Men's 50
333 posts
How many Worlds can 1 team win before having to move up to the next highest division
Exactly that.

I have been hearing from teams on this board for awile now who admit to winning world events but do not think it is fair to them to move them up to the next highest division.

Adult ball has always contended that if you win too much or win the worlds that you have to move up 1 level and give it a shot to see if you can compete. I f you can't then you can always petition to be moved back down from whence you came.

I by the way agree with the idea of if you win a world you automatically should be moved up to the next highest level in that assocation.

What is fair here???

All opinions glady accepted.

Thanks
Mike Kelly
Kelly's Sports 50 Major Plus
Sept. 18, 2005
theFinalWord
7 posts
I agree with that completely in concept. But unfortunately it is subject to politics and not always done equally. There is a team playing in 55 Major plus this year that should not be there. Because of the loss of a few key players, they are not anywhere near as good as they were last year when they won at Major.
Sept. 18, 2005
MK39
Men's 50
333 posts
theFinalWord

That team needs to state there case to those senior softball assocaitions and see what the response is.

This rating thing is flawed without a doubt as not real ball players are behind it.
I am all for at each event, managers gets cards and put there feelings about who was the best team and who were the best players, at least that way some live imput besides who won and who lost could be reviewed.

I would think that each assocaition should only worry about there own assocation and not force there opinions on the other assocations.
In other words you win the SSWC in Major and then the SSWC moves you up to Major Plus.
You try, you can't compete but they wont drop you back down.
Forget them and move to another assocaition who will drop you down and lets see hiw you do in that one.
By this time next year ASA, USSSA and NSA will be flying on there own programs and if they do it right will not listen to any suggestions from the other senior softball assoaciations and just run there own the way they want to.
This whole idea of trying to untie all 10 of the senior softball playing assocaitions onto the same page has been 1 bad joke on all of us and maybe next year they will do as i suggest and just worry about who wants to play in there event and not have any imput on the other assocaitions as to who, how or why they run there worlds like they see fit.
IMO
Thanks
Mike Kelly
Kelly's Sports 50 Major Plus
Sept. 18, 2005
TaterinGa
Men's 50
178 posts
The problem lies within the fact that a team can win a World Title, then change their name & come back with the majority of the players & win again w/o moving up. This happens a lot.
TD's know who they are, but turn their heads just like they do with snowbirds; anything for attendance & money. If they do little investigation on snowbirds, they will even do less on whether a team that has changed their name should move up if they won a World the previous year.


Tater
Sept. 19, 2005
BMoney
37 posts
I agree that evryone has their own opinion in this and am not really sure what right is. I think it is wrong for these teams to change their name every year and try to "sandbag" at a lower level.This should be stopped.Having said this,let me say that there are teams that are truly major,truly AAA,truly AA;I'm not saying that this is always the case,but in some instances this is true. What distinguishes between Major and Major+?;there is no way my major team can compete power for power with the likes of Turn2/Rekco. 9 home runs a game?how about 9 for 2 tourneys.
I don't know the answers,but I do know this has broken up teams.I think each team should be considered on a year to year basis based on rosters and players.I know you can go try to get dropped down,I just don't like playing that way or wasting a good sponsor's money.
Just my nickel's worth.

Dave
Sept. 19, 2005
SoCal'er
68 posts
How difficult could it be to establish a data base of all players in senior softball? They demand rosters at all events. They have the infoand records from the past, use it. Come up with a formula for how many players can return to a World Tournament roster ,regardless of team name. Example , if you have X amount of players on your roster that played on your team or anothers that won or finished 2nd in a World Tournament ,say Major, they must play in Major + Worlds the following year. This should cure the team name change that seems to confuse directors. Shouldn't be that hard for World Tournaments, they require the rosters way in advance.
I'd be interested in what the organizations think. SPA might be looking at 5, as the magic #.
SoCal'er
Sept. 19, 2005
SoCal'er
68 posts
Gary,
they did when I played "young" ball, USSSA etc. Shouldn't just be Major + players though. I don't mean hanging a tag on them for ever, but at least the previous year.
SoCal'er
Sept. 19, 2005
KillAbrew
Men's 60
55 posts
Gary, younger players are classified, yes.
In Senior ball Associations like SS-USA classify teams as a whole. If you are an extra and seldom get to play with a Super Major team you are classified as Super Major. If you are on a Major team and move to the next higher level with four other guys that all hardly played your team is then Major. Makes very little sense. But it is what they use.
Sept. 19, 2005
KillAbrew
Men's 60
55 posts
SoCal'er, to track the players would not be hard at all. But it seems to only happen to some and not others. Politics again.
Sept. 19, 2005
taits
Men's 65
4305 posts
I also agree that if you win a worlds tournament, you should be moved up a notch. But as for the petitioning part, that is fair, UNLESS you win another, then you should be at the higher level for at least two years.
Sept. 19, 2005
Dbax
Men's 60
1243 posts
Just to add my two cemts worth. Arizona Mob was a decent AAA team last year. We did not win any Worlds. The best finish we had was a 5th place tie at SSUSA Worlds in Vegas. In Plano, we were out in two!

Yet in May we were bumped up to Major! We have struggled this year to win a single game in Majors. It would have been nice to win a World in AAA before being bumped up. This panel of experts who rate teams are obviously clueless!
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