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Discussion: Plate & Mat as Strike

Posted Discussion
Dec. 18, 2010
Tater50
336 posts
Plate & Mat as Strike
Have not posted in over 3 years: There seems to be some semblance of sanity now, so I will start posting again. Would like your opinion(s): please indicate if you are a pitcher or a batter. If you do not support SPA or SSUSA by purchasing a membership card, please do not post; I am ONLY interested in people who care & sponsor these programs. We all played SB for many years, then suddenly we come to SSB & the plate becomes a strike. I do not mind the mat being there, but as a batter I do not like the plate being a strike. Would you like for SSB associations to repel the plate as a strike? Or repel both: plate & mat?

Tater50
Dec. 18, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
i like it as it is hard to separate the 2,so as to be able to tell ball and strike sometimes.
Dec. 18, 2010
Tater50
336 posts
I should have said repeal, instead of repel. MadDog; do you pitch or are you a batter that plays another position?

Tater50
Dec. 18, 2010
southpaw
Men's 60
729 posts
Hey John, how are you? I am an average hitter and hopefully a pretty good pitcher. Play SSUSA and SPA with seniors; U-trip and ASA with youngsters.
I can take or leave the plate as a strike, it does not matter. I, personally, do not like the mat. I try not to throw many straigth pitches; everything cuts into or away from the batter, passing through the strike zone, but not always hitting th mat!
Dec. 18, 2010
Mr. Manassas
225 posts
I like it as both a pitcher and a batter. It tends to standardize the strike zone from tournament to tournament. I am sure that we all have had that umpire with the wild strike zone and I for one can't stand it. I think by having the plate as part of the zone it gives the pitcher a hair more control in the situation with out slanting it too heavily in his direction
Dec. 18, 2010
Tater50
336 posts
Southpaw/Steve: have batted against you & you have a great curve; have to add you to the list of my Bro. Winkey, he has a classic curve. I think the mat takes away from great pitcher's like yourself. I have tried to find the origin of the plate as a strike & I have Struck Out;could not resist the pun LOL!!

Tater50
Dec. 18, 2010
Pitcherman
Men's 50
40 posts
Tater, I am a pitcher and I play SPA and SSUSA. I am fine with the mat as a batter and love it as a pitcher. I think it removes a lot of often questionable umpiring and arguing from the game. As a pitcher, I sometimes don't like that what would have been a strike without the mat is not one with it. But on the other hand, I love throwing a curve ball that hits the back inside of the plate for a strike without ever crossing it.
Dec. 18, 2010
hitman
Men's 65
298 posts
Hey Tater,
As a pitcher I like the matt and plate as a strike, as said above it comes as close to leveling out umpires as possible. My pitches go both ways and it depends on the wind on where the knuckle ball goes. I also like it as a hitter again because it levels out the umping again and you can mostly tell if it's going to hitfor a strike. I think I have a pretty good eye but not like ACTION JACKSONS.

The Hitman
Dec. 18, 2010
Airbosn
Men's 65
319 posts
Pitch in the over 35 league locally and pitch from time to time with senior team. I like the mat and I like the 8 foot pitching box in SPA. Also like Winky's curve...It was great to go backside when it broke.
Dec. 18, 2010
ShaneV
Men's 55
381 posts
I umpire NSA tournaments and a local NSA rec league. I wish they would go to the mat!

I like umpiring with the mat.

I like pitching to the mat when the umpire is paying attention.

I like batting with the mat as well, makes balls and strikes easier to judge. There are still edge strikes that work like the borderline strikes but it requires less umpire judgement, good for everybody including umpires!

Related to this in a general sense, I wonder what it was like when "slow"pitch was born? Did it start out as a recreational-only sport then develop into a more competative one? I ask because I can imagine plenty of "purists" mocking the sport in the beginning. Again I generalize by saying slowpitch must have been so offense heavy from the beginning. Compared to baseball and fastpitch softball, slowpitch must have always been offense oriented and allowed the most rec players and beer guts to have fun and stay active. All forms today seem to be more serious and competitive while still giving hitters much of the advantage. The point being that the larger strike zone (mat) slides the advantage slightly in the direction of a good pitcher and defense in general. The equipment takes us the other direction significantly but makes the game fun in the extreme, in my view.

Time for another thread - What was the birth of slowpitch like?

ShaneV
Dec. 18, 2010
Tater50
336 posts
Good to know: so far, I am in the minority. Some great views in reference to equalization of the game; giving a little more edge to the pitcher. Definitely helps in the determination of a strike!!

Still have never found the origin of the plate as a strike?? Puzzling!!

I can live w/it either way, just prefer playing w/o the plate as a strike.

Tater50
Dec. 18, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
tater,yes to all three,LOL.i pitch both call and mat over here now.i pitched a lot of mat ball in cali before i moved here and loved it,we used everything as a strike,mostly just a mat covering everything,couldn't even see the plate.i liked that type until i came here and got to throw call strike again,and i'll tell you,trying to hit the mat can be very trying now,like my call strike pitching.
as a batter i like mat ball to be able to zero in on a specific area.
Dec. 18, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
shane v,slow pitch got started between 2 colleges after some event(sporting)in the early 1900's,by someone rolling up a boxing glove and threw it at the other college rooters,he defended himself with a paddle and it was on... cliffe notes of the history....
Dec. 18, 2010
audieh
Men's 60
241 posts
I love the mat and occasionally pitch. I find that seniors that also pitch Utrip don't like it as the mat requires a slower speed with the 6' to 12' height and better control of your pitches to hit flat and up front or high and deep. The faster ball pitchers have not honed their game to be competitive with the mat as it takes more skill to throw a curve, screwball, knuckle, etc. with the mat.

I think the mat helps the pitcher and is detrimental to the hitter as the pitch that hits the front of the plate and bounces back at the pitcher is not hittable and the extremely high pitch that hits the back inside corner is just about as impossible to hit.

The mat also reduces arguments on pitched balls, speeds the game up and I predict that some day it will be used in most phases of slow pitch.
Dec. 18, 2010
Omar Khayyam
984 posts
I am primarily a pitcher and I like the mat and plate as a strike. I was often frustrated by umps who were poor judges of the strike zone. No pitcher wants to just groove the ball to compensate for a weak umpire.

I also throw a lot of high pitches, some probably more than 12 feet, and the mat helps determine if the ball is a strike (never mind if it passed through the strike zone).

i also agree with others that it has really lowered the level of complaints against an ump, whether by the batter or his teammates. The only complaint now is the occasional height call (after an inning or two, the pitcher knows the umps range).

As a batter, it took me quite awhile to get used to the plate being a strike. And yes, the ball that hits the front of the plate and bounces back is a tough one to gauge. But now, I don't mind it, primarily because it is pretty obvious when it is a strike, whereas in the past as a batter, I thought the ump was blowing a lot of calls.:=)
Dec. 19, 2010
leftyfalcon
Men's 65
158 posts
The only reason I like the mat is it makes it easier for the ump. I think it helps the pitcher a little but that's alright with me.
Dec. 19, 2010
Hippe
Men's 50
13 posts
I like the plate and mat, if not you might as well put the ball on a tee and I feel you`ll have alot more walks because strike zone will be way too small
Dec. 19, 2010
curty
Men's 60
102 posts
I like the plate as a strike because the true strike zone is the area above the plate, shoulder to knee and it seems that in order for the ball to hit the plate it must pass through this zone. this is not necessarily true as by the mentioned curves, low, fast balls, etc, but if not illegal then it meets the requirement. As an umpire the mat takes the questionable call away. As a pitcher it creates a consistent zone and as a hitter it leaves little to "discuss" thereby speeding up at bats. Just how I see it. A good history of softball was around about 6-8 years ago from Worth and it may still be available, but memory escapes me as to actual name of this publication
Dec. 19, 2010
Webbie25
Men's 60
1952 posts
I really think it is time to take home plate as a hitting entity out of the Senior game-it serves no purpose as runs are now scored on a secondary plate and pitches that hit it are strikes. We can just put the mat down and the catcher can touch that for an out. --------------------------------OKAY!!! I'm just kidding, Dirty. Couldn't help but tweak you a bit on that one.
Actually it makes no difference to me as a hitter whether we have a mat that includes the plate or not. With the plate as a strike, I just moved forward a bit in the box so I am relatively even with the middle of the strike zone. I do like the fact that having a mat takes a lot of arguing over balls and strikes out of the game.
Dec. 19, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
webbie isn't that what we do now ,basically..lot of the cali leagues did that,the mat was considered the whole plate for runner and catcher(non-senior league).
Dec. 19, 2010
Player25
Men's 55
51 posts
I am a batter. Have pitched in the past but no longer. I am okay with the plate being a strike but I believe the batters box should be lengthen in the the front by the approx 17" to keep players who want to stand in the front of the box from being called out for being out of the box. I believe the plate being a strike has caused more players to "walk up" in the box. I believe this has also led to less control of where the ball is hit. (Potentially more shots at the pitcher) As to the mat, absolutely hate it. Balls are called strikes that never cross the plate but hit the mat. Others are called balls that crossed the plate but did not hit the mat. High pitches hit the back of the mat but do not cross the strike zone. If they want to use the mat as a guide it would be okay but to have a rule if the ball hits the mat it is a strike is unfair in so many ways.
Dec. 20, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Strike zones are supposed to be vertical and tailored to the height of the batter, NOT horizontal and the same size for a guy 5'8" as for some guy 6'7". Another terrible idea!
Dec. 20, 2010
curty
Men's 60
102 posts
Dirty, this is true if the ball is traveling on a vertical plane, but shouldn't it be more attuned to the arc of the pitch? in slo pitch it would seem to me that the zone is drawn across the plate vertically but the pitch,if legal, crosses horizontally.Just how I see it.
Dec. 20, 2010
curty
Men's 60
102 posts
sorrry, got the directions back ass wards. Should be ball travels vertically, zone drawn horizontally.
Dec. 20, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
curty, yes there is more arc than in baseball, but the ball is still travelling at less than a 45 degree angle. Pitches are still much more horizontal than vertical, that is just geometric fact. Especialy with the arc limits we use.

And strike zones were NEVER intended to be one-size-fits-all.
Dec. 20, 2010
jimjoes-gman
Men's 55
80 posts
Give me the mat. All those years of hearing umpires giving those "corny" verbal descriptions of each pitch ( too deep, you're over him,just missed etc,etc,etc.)And then there were a lot of "corny" pitchers hollering at the ump wanting to know "what's wrong with it"? Personally,I liked umps that only said "ball","strike" & thats all......TATER,I totally agree with you about this site getting rid of that "trojan horse virus"......PLAYER 25,yes the chalk should go further out in front of the plate to compensate where a batter has to stand with a mat vs.a plate nowadays.
Dec. 20, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
So we are going to a horizontal strize zone that is the same size for EVERYONE just so you don't have to hear a few words exchanged between the ump and pitcher?????????????

Dec. 20, 2010
Tater50
336 posts
Dirty: are you a member of the SSUSA or SPA?
Dec. 20, 2010
DCPete
232 posts
For those that do Not want a mat, be careful what you wish for! The last time we played in an ASA tourney, about 5 years ago, they had some extremely old umps who called batters out on pitches that would have landed 6 to 10 feet behind the plate.
These umps claimed they were calling the pitch where it crossed the batter and the plate had nothing to do with it.
Another reason why we haven't played ASA since . . .
Dec. 20, 2010
curty
Men's 60
102 posts

i can't find where any one has said that the strike zone should be the same for everyone?
Dec. 20, 2010
Mr. Manassas
225 posts
Again...I reiterate...It was developed to reach some kind of concensus on a strike zone...Yes, in a perfect world all the umpires would be consistant. It does give the pitcher some chance to challenge the hitter in giving him the short and deep pitch. I like it as both a pitcher and a hitter.
Dec. 20, 2010
Tater50
336 posts
Mr. M: I still have not found the origin of the plate/mat; heard one scenario that early SSB only used one Ump & it made it easier. I guess that one ump was positioned somewhere else on the field & could easily visualize a srike???

Still a puzzler how it originated??

Tater50
Dec. 20, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
i watched them in the mid 80's and can't remember if they used a mat,i would say most likely b/c there were a bunch of mat leagues in Sacramento back then.
Dec. 21, 2010
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
"i can't find where any one has said that the strike zone should be the same for everyone?"

Curty, you find it everytime you see the mat. It IS the strike zone, and it NEVER changes size based on the batter. 5'4" or 6'9", we all use the SAME size strike zone. Wrong, just wrong.
Dec. 21, 2010
Mario
Men's 50
367 posts
The mat is a good idea for consistenency
from one umpire to the next. The plate being a strike is another story. We all played softball for many years and got used to the plate being a ball. Now all of a sudden its a strike. From a safty stand point, I think the plate should still be a ball. My reasoning behind this is I have to hit that short pitch somewhere as hard as I can. Most of the time it goes back up the middle. I'm a pitcher/1B so I don't like hitting it up the middle. But it always happens in Senior ball, you get 2 strikes on you and here comes the shortest pitch of the at bat. I don't think the game would change that much if they went back to the plate being a ball, other than I think there would be less balls hit up the middle.
Dec. 21, 2010
DCPete
232 posts
The problem is Without the mat the umpires also range from 5'4" to 6'9" and everyone of them will call a Different strike zone which is also just wrong for both the pitcher & the batter.
Dec. 21, 2010
ShaneV
Men's 55
381 posts
It occurs to me I need to propose in our senior league that the front of the batters box should never be enforced. We have had issues with the box being called in league, local tournaments and even Western here in Lacey last year.

The reason is with the mat covering the plate and the whole thing a strike, the short ones force a batter to hit pitches they never had to hit before, and they're 12" or more shorter than the old strike zone! SSUSA shold consider this too. On many dirt infields anymore they don't even paint boxes. Our problem is they are painted on the artificial turf!

ShaneV
Dec. 22, 2010
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
I don't care what strize zone the ump calls, as long as he/she is consistent a good pitcher and batter can adjust. That is all anyone wants, be it softball or hardball, is just consistency and knowing what to expect.

Oh, and I would like a strike zone that is at least somewhat tailored to my height and not Magic Johnson's.
Dec. 22, 2010
Tater50
336 posts
Gary19: glad you got your old handle back. I do not like the plate/mat as a strike; but any dislikes we have in SSB can only be addressed if enough players platoon together & eeeeeeeee the associations to put them to a vote.

Everyone banning together can get rules changed. If the Plate/mat stays, SBats stay; I can live with it, but I just prefer it the other way.

As far as protection for the pitcher; if he wants it,more power to him; dbl 1b; split home plate.....great, injuries at our age take forever to get over.

Tater50
Dec. 22, 2010
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Thanks John. Good to hear from you, I remember you well from SBF.

I agree with you, I live with these but don't really see why seniors need special rules in most cases.
Dec. 23, 2010
Corky
Men's 55
446 posts
As an NSA umpire that listens to players cry about balls and strikes that are close and then swing at something a mile out of the strike zone.....I love the map and the 1 and 1 count. On the 1 and 1 count....all games Except championship games.....SHANE V as umpires how do we suggest NSA across the board use the mat?
Dec. 23, 2010
samg
25 posts
Being new to senior league this coming year in Ohio I will have to get use to the plate as a strike zone. As for the mat we have played with it in Ohio for several years now. I like the mat in it takes some of the younger players arguing and creating issues that cause delays and in some cases games away from theit teams. The height has alwasy been 3-9 and 6-10 unless in an unlimited height tourney. As for the short pitch, you are true in that most hitters will send it back up the middle on you. I know as I have pitched now fore several years with the younger guys, but it has actually kept me honest and on my toes. :-) Like southpaw I usually wont give a batter a straight pitch to hit unless I know they will take a first strike. Then I will get ahead and start with the angles and yes even a short or deep pitch here and there. :-) The mat did speed up play as far as an umpire is concerned with the calls, but there are times when the ball will hit left, right, or back hitting a small rock or clod of dirt and dart leading to a bad call by an umpire. I have done this and had it done to me. I try to look around the mat before a game to see if the ground is level or not or if there are any areas that may cause a ball to take off like it caught an edge. :-) Just using the field to my advantage? The only issue with short pitching a person is at the rec level and up to some of the higher ones we still have issues with the "young" guys using illegal bats that send a ball on you right now! Those are usually the ones that have no real talent or control of their bats, and probably cheat in everything they do.
Dec. 24, 2010
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
samg, what part of Ohio?
Dec. 24, 2010
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Beside making it quite large and not really correctly fitting anyone, a good pitcher can make a joke of the mat. Try placing just a toe on the side of the rubber, extend way out to the side and release the pitch a good 4, 5, maybe 6 feet off to the side of the rubber depending on how tall you are and long your arm is. Now, just knick the edge of the mat on that side.

NO way the ball ever came anywhere close to the real strike zone, but you will get the strike call every time. It just totally changes/eliminates the real, intended strike zone if done correctly.
Dec. 25, 2010
samg
25 posts
Prospect Ohio. Just south of Marion and North of Columbus Gary. You from Ohio?
Dec. 25, 2010
samg
25 posts
Gary I will agree with you that most mats it will give a pitcher a wider margin of "error" since the mat is wider than the plate by in some cases 4 inches or more. I believe the intent was to make the games faster for league play and squash some mouth from players to umpires.
Dec. 25, 2010
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
19,do the same with called strike and most likely will get a strike,well,maybe need to get it 2-4" into the area behind the plate,but the same scenario you just described,and it'll be called a strike,been there had them call it for me.i say 90% of the umps look to see where it lands before calling it.

samg,put that 4" (2" each side of the plate and you are still taking an 1.5" from me(diameter of a softball,approx 3.5" across).mat ball has never has bothered me,been playing it since the 80's.
Dec. 25, 2010
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
samg, I live in Shaker Heights, in suburban Cleveland.

mad dog, you probably have a point, though I know when I umped back in the 90s I never just looked at where it landed. But yea, I know a lot/too many umps just look at that and little else.
Dec. 25, 2010
samg
25 posts
Who do you play with there? I am the rookie this year playing senior ball. Been playing with a team from delaware ohio in league and got picked up for a recreational tournament which we won. I really had a good time with it though. My brothers team from cali won the 55 Major+ in Vegas and I hope some day to have an opportunity to play with or pitch against him. :-) I got the chance when I was in the military to play with a team in LR Arkansas with him. I had a great time. Maybe we will see you around this year. I will play on Weekdays with Universal Mechanical from Powell Ohio.
Dec. 25, 2010
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
I play in the Silver League in Barberton (near Akron) two nights a week, and last year played with the Ohio Silverstreaks in some tournaments. We played Universal three times, I believe, in various tournaments last season. Good bunch of guys!
Dec. 26, 2010
tater9
62 posts
The game we played as a youngster is gone, not only from a philosophical standpoint but also from a business standpoint. The organizations need to turn a profit and will make changes to the game to keep players involved. As silly as some of these rules are a change back to the past would only mean less participation which in turn means less profit....you don't remain solvent on less for long.
Dec. 26, 2010
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
tater, you are probably right. It is just a shame so many seniors want so many silly rules.
Dec. 26, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4305 posts
Gary19,
for those wanting specific ones like i do the open roster, and having any become reality especially as stated by them isn't going to happen. I wonder how may have? This would be truly interesting.
The players have no say or vote, only feedback positive and negative with the suggestive.
Dec. 27, 2010
Webbie25
Men's 60
1952 posts
Gary-you say seniors want so many silly rules-I slightly disagree because we have reached the point where we need the silly rules. We are not spring chickens any more. I have been hurt more in the last two years than ever in my career.I feel like a Klingon--I'm Klinging on because I can still hit, but am run for every time I get on. We have many guys on our team that would not be playing if not for these silly rules. So which ones do you think really should be canned. The CR rule? That allows 7 or 8 guys on our team to be able to play that could not play if it was otherwise. Do we suffer defensively-big time, but we are there to compete. Cut out the CR rule and I think we would be gone as a competitive team because we are a family team. The five runs an inning? With these bats and diminished defensive skills we would be playing 3 and 4 inning games. HR rules? Again, with these bats it could get very out of hand. The outside plate? Again diminished physical capabilities-that we cannot do what we used to do physically dictates we need it to prevent collisions protect bones that are older from breaking-or worse. The mat-debatable-I don't personally like it from a competitive standpoint, but my observations are that it does cut down the arguing over balls and strikes and the really bad ump can at least get that part right. It is getting harder to get good umpires. We just roll our eyes anymore in league-we are beyond arguing with some of the people they put out there.
We are blessed to be playing at our ages. When I was 25-anyone playing past 40 was an absolute fossil. Now look at us!!! A lot of us would love to play old style open softball. However, we would lose a lot more people and teams than we gain by having the rules.
Dec. 27, 2010
Tater50
336 posts
Webbie25; Well said!!


Tater50
Dec. 27, 2010
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Webbie,

For starters, the mat has nothing to do with our age, and again causes all guys no matter their height to have the same strike zone, which is fundamentally wrong.

Our age does not cause us to have to use two home plates. Sure there could be collisions at home, but there also can be at second and third yet no one seem concerned with those. Why are collisions with catchers who can see the runner coming worse than collisions at second when many times the infielder has his back to the oncoming runner while taking a throw from left field?

Our age does not require us to use special bats, and actually I would (and have) argue the special bats cause more problems and silly rules. Guys don't need to be able to do in the 50s and 60s what many could not in their 20s and 30s. It just doesn't.

The bats cause, or at least contribut to, the time limits and the run limits. Again, one silly rule causing many others.

I could live with the CR, I suppose, but NO need to allow rabbits to run. None at all. That is just scamming the original intent of the rule.

Pitchers looking like hockey goalies. Yes, that one has part to do with our age, and a large part to do with the special bats. Again, no need for them.

Webbie, those are what comes immediately to mind.
Dec. 27, 2010
Webbie25
Men's 60
1952 posts
Gary-I agree with you on problems with the mat, but I think it solves more problems than it creates.

Collisions at home and intentionally running down the catcher are the bad ones. The base collisions are rarely intentional. There is always some kamikaze guy out there who will still mow down a catcher if given the chance. A lot of the catchers are our older players that may be hurt, but still want to play. It is such an easy thing to have the second plate.

No argument on the bats.

No argument on pitchers, but even WITH toned down bats, at our ages with diminished reactions, it would be a good idea to have the protection.

CR's I addressed in that thread.

Thanks. Mark

Dec. 27, 2010
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Obviously we have seen different things. In 37 years of playing I can count on less than one hand the number of times I have seen a catcher intentionally run into, but have seen many times where an infielder is taken out (which is perfectly fine if done correctly, it is part of the game, always has been) trying to turn a double play.

Like I said, age certainly has something to do with some pitchers needing protection. For me, if/when I get to the ponnt that I do I will either switch positions or stop playing. To me that would be the sign that the time has come, as it does with all of us at some point.

I responded to you in the other thread as well.

Dec. 27, 2010
Webbie25
Men's 60
1952 posts
Interesting-that's 2 things you say you have rarely seen, but I have seen a lot-enough to comment on them and support a rule that takes it into consideration and that's balls hitting the rubber and collisions at home. When younger, taking out the catcher used to be the accepted-in baseball, then fast pitch and then slow pitch. There are still kamikaze win-at-all-costs guys out there in our game that could really do some damage to a catcher. I'm glad you are still a 'specimen' yet, and admire you for what you have gone through. Unfortunately, time takes its toll on us. I like that second home plate, as long as I can remember not to bat from it!!!
Mark
Dec. 27, 2010
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Again, in 37 years I have NEVER had a ball take a bad hop off a rubber in front of me and I have rarely seen a catcher intentionally run into. Now I have seen collisions when the catcher is out of position, and that in on him NOT the runner.

I know time takes a toll, trust me I am not as strong as I once was. But I still say that collisions happen at second and third as well, yet we don't have double bases there. How is running into someone there safer/better than at the plate?

As far as what I have gone through, thanks and so far so good. Another round of checkups next week. Only 3 1/2 years to go and I think I am considered 'cured'. :)
Dec. 27, 2010
DCPete
232 posts
Obviously there were enough home plate collisions for the rule to be implemented years ago in ASA that if the Catcher already had the ball the Runner has to slide or give themself up, otherwise it's an Out and they're ejected if deemed flagrant.
Needless to say, this rule has never been implemented for 2nd or 3rd base because most of those plays are Force plays that don't involve collisions.
Dec. 27, 2010
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Pete, I completely agree with that. With that rule, there is no need for the second plate, which has been my point.

I have seen plenty of collisions at second over the years. They are called breaking up the double play.
Dec. 29, 2010
jimjoes-gman
Men's 55
80 posts
Gary 19,I am the pitcher on the team that Paul R. (Bullet) plays on out of Indy that won the 55 AAA Winter Nat's. Been doin it "forever". I have never had an injury from a ball hitting the mound , but I have had some close calls. I also can recall seeing a few other instances (past 35 yrs),where an opposing pitcher got hit by a "worm burner" hitting the rubber......As far as the CR,I have a titanium knee (1 1/2 yr.), am on base a lot & can get to 2nd quickly. But,Paul will tell you, that the more CR's I have, I will swallow fewer hydrocodones, have less pain on Sunday morning & be able to go to work on Monday morning. That's what a CR means to me. Without them,I could not get through the weekend.....RG, "Expert Car Care". PS ,Hope to meet you some day.
Dec. 29, 2010
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
I know Paul well. I believe others have seen it happen, and maybe I have been very lucky, I just don't recall a ball hitting one in front of me. I have seen my share of bad hops, but just not off the rubber that I remember.

If CRs are really needed, that is one thing though it really should be the last out or some other way than just letting the manager send out a rabbit. But I am sure you have seen plenty of cases where a healthy guy is replaced just because the CR is faster. I still maintain that is NOT the spirit of the rule. That is my real point to all this.

Hope to meet you somewhere as well. Hopefully we will have a team out of this area next year and I can get around a bit to some tourneys.
Jan. 4, 2011
pitcher55
Men's 55
130 posts
i started pitching in 1972,with a 14 inch corkball,unlimited arc,the plate and mat was a strike.always playing in so.calif.i have seen a mat that fit behind the plate,an extended mat that fit behind and had a 2 inch strip up each side of the plate,and the extended matthat totaly covered the plate.the last one is the best.with a scoring line behind the plate,might as well cover it up.one consistant stike zone is best.it is not as easy in sb to locate your pitches as it is in baseball.i,ve pitched them both alot.the pitcher does not have an advantage greater than the senior bat.i have watched a friend of mine get his eye socket shattered from a shot off the front edge of the mound.he has double vision in that eye.all mounds in slowpitch should be flush with the ground.i can not believe some complexes have a raised mound.that is so dangerous.each inning as i take the mound,i pull dirt up in front of the rubber.when i say mound,i meant rubber.in vegas,the rubbers were 2 to 3 inches above the ground.crazy and extremely dangerous.and when a pitcher must put on hockey gear to allow him a better chance of not being killed,it is way past time to eliminate the threat.most players that disagree,play deeper.
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