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Discussion: Then There Were 14!

Posted Discussion
Dec. 19, 2010
Duke
Men's 60
720 posts
Then There Were 14!
Unofficially, there are only 14 60 Major Plus teams in the SSUSA organization. Since I am unaware of the status of some of the Eastern teams, that is why I say unofficially. My team, Double Edge, has folded, mostly due to extended injuries and unable to decide which tournaments to attend, and players leaving to other States. Some time next year, I plan to find a 55/60 Major team to join or sub for some time next year. Not interested in joining a Major Plus team, due to lack of teams to play.

Best Wishes to all for a Happy and Safe Holiday!!

Andy Smith,
60 Major Plus
Dec. 20, 2010
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2665 posts
Andy, I won't be playing with the 60 Major Plus team, Miken/Anaconda Sports out of Florida, in 2011. My main reason was the lack of other 60 Major Plus teams in our region and nationally.
Good luck finding a team.
Bruce
Dec. 20, 2010
CRUSADERVB
Men's 65
272 posts
ANDY & BRUCE
AS FAR AS I KNOW, GSF AND MTC ARE THE ONLY 60 MAJOR PLUS TEAMS ON THE WEST COAST. OMEN MOVED UP TO 65 MAJOR PLUS, ROBSON RANCH MOVED DOWN TO MAJOR AND D&K IS NOW PLAYING 55 MAJOR. WE [GSF] ARE SPONSORLESS. WE'RE WORKING ON OUR SCHEDULE NOW PLUS A SPONSOR, THAT'S THE TOUGHEST PART!! ANYONE WANT TO SPONSOR THE SSUSA CHAMPS 2009 AND 2010??
Dec. 20, 2010
DoubleL10
Men's 65
833 posts
Ron, Did Ruth drop out of the 60s? They used to be Major Plus. Glad to hear you guys are keeping GSF together.
Dec. 20, 2010
FreeAgent10
43 posts
Happy Holidays Larry. Hope your planning on coming to Houston Feb. 19 & 20th for our first tournament. How many teams are you on this year? lol. Need to visit us down here sometime.
Merry Christmas
Dec. 20, 2010
Jawood
Men's 50
798 posts
I do not understand why they continue to have a Major-plus division. It is a joke due to the lack of teams. Either drop it or add 15-20 teams to it!
Dec. 20, 2010
CRUSADERVB
Men's 65
272 posts
LARRY, I EMAILED BILL RUTH A FEW MONTHS AGO AND HE TOLD ME NO 60'S TEAM THIS YEAR. WANNA SPONSOR US? WE'LL LET YOU PLAY ANYWHERE YOU WANT!!
Dec. 20, 2010
DD
Men's 60
75 posts
Andy, you spend far too much time worrying about the level you team is rated. I saw it when I played with you in 2009 on Double Nickels...we were very competitive in 55/Major, although you whined about us being overrated all year; and you whimpered quite publicly about Double Edge until you won the 60/Major World Championship. Now, you're quitting so you can play down again.

You are a very good hitter, quite an accomplished pitcher...and a Major Plus WHINER.

Dec. 20, 2010
DD
Men's 60
75 posts
Andy...I meant to add a Merry Christmas to that last post, too!
Dec. 20, 2010
Duke
Men's 60
720 posts
DD,

Have a Merry Christmas and Happy and Safe New Year too! See you out there next year.

Andy Smith
Dec. 20, 2010
Duke
Men's 60
720 posts
If no Ruth 60's team this year, then I should have said, "Then There Were 13"! Now there is approxiamately 1 60 Major Plus team for every 4 STATES! How pathetic this has become!

Let's be real here, as a former AA, AAA, Major, and now Major Plus player; not much has changed. I still know the main reason for not many Major Plus teams in SSUSA or any organization, boils down to dollars and cents. This is simple guys, 1) like I have said many times before, no one is concerned about how many Major Plus teams exist. For the most part, SSUSA and any other organization, is going to make this attractive to the majority, which boils down to dollars and cents for them, and 2) You will not hear this from anyone, but I am sure that SSUSA and other organizations probably hope that most Major Plus teams disband and form 2 teams from the one team, and this would bring in more revenue. Bottom line guys, it boils down to dollars and cents. Honestly, I agree with them, by pleasing the majority, they will have success and revenue. You cannot beat that kind of thinking, if you want to make a profit.

Just My Opinions!

Andy Smith

Dec. 20, 2010
Garocket
Men's 55
157 posts
Let me see if I can address this without sounding like a chicken head'


Teams build themselves to be as good as they can afford to be, they pay players to come play with them so they can win almost all of there games

They win at AAA and get moved to Major so they go out and get 2-3 more players that are top notch and win most of the Major Tournaments,

Then they get to Major Plus and break up or say SSUSA needs to bump more teams into Major Plus

Guys if they bump more teams into Major plus, a lot of these teams cannot afford to pay 2-3 players to come make them strong enough to compete

So they split up and the Major Plus teams still do not have enough to play.

If you drop the Major Plus teams down to Major and they beat the tar out of the Major teams then the Major teams split and make more AAA teams
Then the Majors would not have enough teams

A very vicious cycle.

The person that has the answer to this riddle will be the 1st millionaire.

I truely think if the bat and ball combo was not so advanced you could have 3 divisions and balance them pretty close

Dec. 20, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
Garocket,
I think you will hit a few nerves on that one.
Some might well be valid butmy take on all of it is they go (pay in advance) to play and THEN find out whom they are pitted against just before and can't withdraw w\o costing them anyway... usually not FULLY aware they will play the mostly major teams or even younger ones, likely both as well, & again not able to withdraw.
Some T's get good results in number of teams that show, others only a few.
The matching up is the best they can do with what info I think is used.
But probably could rate teams better with more info from other assns. SPA is only one I believe is semi partnered up with.
I do think many teams could be moved up in the brackets and perhaps even a move down here or there.
But the reality is, on any given weekend, there are so damn many tournaments of every magnitude to pick from.
That is the reason there are not many teams all the time let alone still exist because of this.


Dec. 20, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
I just wonder what will happen to the teams these M+ players go to... will they be moved up because of it or be an exception, and stay where they are.
And they will go somewhere.

Dec. 20, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
This is why I have asked for open public rosters on here so it becomes a checks and balances of teams playing.
Many things have been noticed by players\ posters on here about many of the schedules, teams, players & even rules that have been posted.
This can be a win-win thing for both sides.
Dec. 20, 2010
Tate22
Men's 55
263 posts
There still is and always has been an alternative to the Major Plus dilemma. Quit the incessant whining about Major Plus teams and ratings and show up and play. Combine Major and Major Plus, 3 divisions are more than enough. If you are afraid of the competition, quit pretending to be a nationally competitive tournament team and stay home in the comfort of your local league. If you need rings so badly, get on the Josten's web site and order all the rings you can afford. But quit trying to dilute the competition. Between home run rules, runs per inning rules, and "stimulus package/government cheese" equalizer runs there is more than enough handicapping of higher level teams. What's next, making Major Plus teams hit from the opposite side of the plate??

And what exactly is a "major plus" player. Sure, upper level teams will have their share of exceptionally talented athletes, but which ones should be branded, excluded or banned? The only answer ever offered to this question is somebody's subjective and likely biased opininon. Instead of obsessing that some player is TOO good to compete against, challenge yourself to take on the best available competition. Which one of you picked the SF Giants to win the World Series? They didn't beg to be moved down, or whine, they just showed up and performed.

Happy Holidays and Happy New Year to all, hope to see you all on the fields next year.
JMHO
Don Newhard
Nighthawks 55 M+
Dec. 21, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
If those teams add players, which they can, I doubt you can fool anyone that your not loading up. You may get by here or there but it will catch up one day and then you'll pay for the deception.
I believe its likely all levels are doing this, maybe not all teams. There aren't many that haven't "over extended" their "TRUE" original rating. And if you did that, you should play up.
Dec. 21, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
Oh, since teams are adding players, supposed to be up to 5, but some try to sneak in 6, your dead meat, play up. Adding that many for example to a AA team really makes it a AAA team. It escalates from there.
Used to be a time when you could only pick up 2, so that's the deal here half another team?
There was a time you could get three players, but FIVE? Come on...
Two pick-ups should be the limit. Equal level or lower at same age group, or one level up if older, imo.
Open the rosters make them public, check them out the players know who is playing for whom and where. By doing so you verify each others team, so there shouldn't be any surprises for you.
If you don't take the time to check them out its on you, if you do and question a player, inquire about it. If your right the system works, if wrong, at least you know.

Dec. 21, 2010
CRUSADERVB
Men's 65
272 posts
HEY GAYROCKET, WHO PAYS THEIR PLAYERS, NOT IN 60'S. MAYBE IN YOUR DIVISION.
DONNIE GOOD COMMENT....SHOW UP AND PLAY.
DUKE, TAKE DALTON'S ADVICE!!!
Dec. 21, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
My feelings on the higher rated players is that I don't like being labeled.
But that is what is happening.
So, If, as an example you are playing with more than two players who have been playing at a higher rating that the team is currently, you should be allowed to continue at that level.
However, if you have three or more higher rated players as is currently excepted, your team should or will be playing up.
Bring the teams back to where they belong, not an artificial steroid team. If there, play up and don't complain.
Dec. 21, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
Should be NO more than two players currently.
Dec. 21, 2010
Webbie25
Men's 60
1983 posts
taits-that exact point of 5 addon players is being reviewed as we speak.I agree with the 2 pickup idea. Another idea that has been presented for major plus only is an age division of 50-57, 58-64. Three years ago SSUSA had a pow-wow with major plus managers to work these things out and that didn't work either.
Dec. 21, 2010
Webbie25
Men's 60
1983 posts
There are 2 other issues here that are very pertinent. TATE22-I have to very strongly agree with you about moving up to play. My feeling is bring it on-lets challenge ourselves to play the best. That was always the challenge when I was younger and I believe most people felt that way. Now, it sure seems like a lot of teams are breaking up rather than play the higher competition. Why? Maybe the DRIVE TO BE THE BEST is not what it used to be in our aging bodies-we have hit a comfort level with our abilities. Maybe we don't think we can improve any more. Can't teach an old dog new tricks. Whatever the reason, teams that have won major championships in their division are ducking the move to a higher division. SSUSA is looking at that very hard trying to come up with an answer.
The other issue is labeling players. Another very tough call. Not every major plus player is a homerun hitting monster. Every team has to have position players, table setters, non-starters that come in and play major roles in winning, and, most of all, chemistry to win. Is it right to label ANYONE on a major plus roster as a major plus player? Not too many of us can take the rigors of 7, 8, or 9 games in the outfield any more, and you need 14 or 15 players minimum to last through a tourney. Those 14th and 15th players may be, honestly, good AAA players that base hit with little power, field well, and run well. Once you play major plus, though, you cannot step back to AAA. Is that right? Tough questions for SSUSA to tackle regarding major plus. Major plus players don't just grow on trees.
Anybody who thinks SSUSA has not spent tremendous amounts of time on this issue is VERY wrong. Keep the ideas coming to them.
Dec. 21, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
Webbie25,
7-8 year spread is too wide, and will only cause confusion... like any assn need to cope with that one TOO...!
Leave the brackets as they are.
Dec. 21, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
I have stated teams need to move and play better teams in order to better themselves over the years, but only if forced to move will they do it.
Mgrs and likely sponsors get comfortable playing where they are. Not really in the game to go anywhere, but in the recliner waiting for a hover-round.
All you get by playing the same teams is usually knowing where they hit or weak and strong positions are.
Dec. 21, 2010
Webbie25
Men's 60
1983 posts
Taits-I think at major plus it is not as big a deal, the age spread. Players at that level have quite often kept themselves in better condition and are stronger. Nature of the beast.
Dec. 21, 2010
jrhunch
96 posts
my team pace started out as aaa moved all the way to major plus and now are back to major.we have kept the same team basically from the start only adding players from our area.each year the teams that moved up with us picked up 4-5 new starters thus making them better.i am not complaining just stating the facts.a team from one state has a roster with players from touching states and numerous cities within that state.teams say its all about the friendship but many players have never been to each others house.it really is about winning.i believe u should be the best u can be but i dont think u should try to pick up a super team from many areas and then wonder why there are no teams to play.there is nothing wrong with being or trying to be the best.it all boils down to what you need to do to attain your goal.i for one will try to be the best i can be with my team without picking up players from other areas.i think u should only pick up players if you dont have enough players in your area. in the 70's i played at major level my goal was to play against the best which i achieved.then teams started picking up players and the a class went from many to a few just like today.the major division would have numerous teams if it was done right.in the 70's the a class was catered to everyone wanted to be a today the lower classes are catered to.i blame the major classes for this because in our need to win we have cherrypicked the best players from other teams thus we have less competative teams.remember when the teams move up with 4-5 new starters they had to get these players from someother teams thus breaking up or weakening another team.there is no reason why there isnt 2or 3playing levels 4 is too many.duke when your team won vegas the following year we moved up with you.when we played you again you had the first 5 batters(all new)hit back to back etc hrs in arow.this is what happens all the time.we weaken many teams to help a few.we need to find a better way.i will say it again recreation ,within 75 miles, over 75 miles are your 3 classes.use good balls no matter what and fight over the bat issues.peace out jr pace#11
Dec. 21, 2010
Mario
Men's 50
381 posts
I'm new to this Senior softball but what I saw this year is that most AAA teams could play Major if they wanted to. I will never understand why anyone would not want to play against the best teams around. Especially since you can only score 5 runs per inning. The only difference from level to level is how hard the ball is hit up and down the line up. All divisions best hitters hit the ball just as hard as the upper levels. The difference is in the lower part of the batting order. Your major and major+ teams have more players who hit it hard in the bottom of the line up. In my opinion HR's are just a number
due to the fact that you can only score 5 runs per inning. The only advantage to having more HR's is in the open inning.
Dec. 26, 2010
Al33
Men's 55
183 posts
Duke, Unofficially there are 19 Major Plus teams listed in SSUSA and 12 Major Plus teams listed in SPA. You are right, there aren't many teams to play. Major Plus teams consist of the best money can buy.
There are very few teams in the country that can compete on the Major Plus level. Major Plus teams are basically nothing more than All-Star teams. Gathering players from multiple cities and multiple states. You want to level the playing field then put in some more resideny restrictions. Get rid of the touching state rule. No players from touching states for a start. See how many Major Plus teams you'll have then. There's already at least one Major Plus team in the country who has said they would lose 4-5 starters and couldn't compete if some of these changes were made.
DD was right, you do worry way to much about ratings.
Combining divisions doesn't do a thing to solve the problem. It just gives the Major Plus teams more teams more to beat up on. Just because a team wins a Major championship doesn't mean they are good enough to compete at the next level. Been there done that.
Should the NCAA division II baseball champions be forced to play division I the next year after they win a national championship? I think not, for the obvious reasons. They won't win. It's got nothing to do with being the best you can be. I believe we are all trying to be the best we can be and get better or we wouldn't be wasting our time playing in national tournaments trying to win, while spending a lot of time and money doing so.
I'm not afraid to play anybody because I want to try and beat the best. Even if I know I don't have a very good chance. Although a steady diet of getting my but kicked isn't my idea of fun. It also doesn't mean I'm a whiner, afraid of competition, lack the drive to be the best, or any other reason you can come up with.
Facts are facts and the fact is that very few teams can afford to compete at the Major Plus level as it exists today. What's the answer? I'm not sure. It surely isn't telling people to just show up and play. That might be OK for the few Major Plus teams in the country but, not for everyone else.

Dec. 26, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
Webbie,
I'd agree to the spread, but not age AND ratings. Which they do combine in reality.

A133,
There are many teams that are good at picking and choosing the T's they attend based upon who says they are attending. Which can be very wise. Leads the lamb to slaughter as you hint to.
Teams or their mgrs\sponsors also, I think, have a fixation on the ring thing. Another one towards the fame level.
Paying players has been around for eons. Just not as OBVIOUS as to how some are done, but it is done. After all, there is only so much you can do on the books and or write off. And true too, not all players are, as you said, paid to play.

Dec. 26, 2010
Duke
Men's 60
720 posts
A133,

You need to do your homework and get the facts correct. Like I do not know the Eastern teams status, you obviously do not know the Western teams status.

Currently, there are 19 teams now listed as 60 Major Plus in SSUSA. 5 of those teams do not exist, and they are: Old A's/Miken, Omens, Omen, Double Edge, and W E Ruth. If I am wrong, then maybe these teams can let us all know. A133, maybe you can get us all the accurate information for the Eastern teams.

Andy Smith,
60 Major Plus
Dec. 26, 2010
Al33
Men's 55
183 posts
Duke,
What homework! What part of "unofficial listing" is confusing to you?. I really don't care if they've broken up or if they don't exist anymore or if they're from the east coast or the west coast.
They're listed and maybe the organizations should get them off the lists so guys like you don't get confused.
I guess it's difficult for them to do that though. Your team Double Edge is a perfect example. You got moved up on November 1st and then you told us you're breaking up less than 3 weeks later, mostly due to extended injuries and unable to decide which tournaments to attend, and players leaving to other States. Wow, that's a prety quick exit from the Major Plus level. Heck many of the tournament schedules weren't even complete yet. Oh well, good luck where ever you end up. When/if you win again, you'll get moved up again. No problem for you though. Just break up and play with another team.
Dec. 26, 2010
turn2
486 posts
I do not know how many teams are listed because I only count the ones that will come to play.
In the past 4 years in the 60 major plus division I think the most teams we ever had in our division was 8. The biggist turnout for us is SPA and Vegas. We went to Phoenis 1 year and there were 3 teams.
So I have never seen for than 8 at a big National that we attended. So the 14 or 19 teams doesn't matter if they don't attend any of the biggest Nationals.
Later
Donnie
Dec. 26, 2010
Duke
Men's 60
720 posts
A133,

Sounds like you have some issues with me, so I will reframe from fueling the fire or explaining anything, such as schedules, because Donnie's and Ike's organizations had their schedules out way ahead of SSUSA and SPA. Those were the tournaments that we usually attend 70% of the time.

To enlighten you as to what SSUSA's policy is on updating their lists, they leave all inactice teams on their list for at least 2 years, and I assume to see/keep track of where players go and that they adhere to their ratings or do not start another team under a different name with the same players.

Turn2,

I know Major Plus teams talk a lot about which tournaments they are attending, so that they may have a better attendence. That is a smart thing to do, but my team would never have traveled East, as we were not sponsored and it was difficult for serveral players to pay their way to where we went this year.

I have said all that I care to say on this subject, so continue to say what ever you like and get it out of your system.

Andy Smith,
60 Major Plus
Dec. 27, 2010
CRUSADERVB
Men's 65
272 posts
ANDY, WE'LL BE AT THE SCSSA TOURNAMENT JAN 22-23. WE'LL BE SHORT BUT WE'RE COMING!!
DONNIE, WE HAVE RENO, VEGAS, DALTON AND PHX ON OUR SCHEDULE FOR THE ''BIG TOURNAMENTS'' HOPE TO SEE YOU AT ONE OF THOSE. I'M TRYING TO KEEP THE GSF TEAM GOING, BUT WITHOUT A SPONSOR IT'S TOUGH.
Dec. 27, 2010
Webbie25
Men's 60
1983 posts
Al33-There is really no residency rule that is going to work very well. The touching states? What about North Dakota, South Dakota, Maine, Wyoming----states that have very few people and cannot field a quality team. Is it fair to keep the major plus ability player from those states from traveling to compete? Even in NM we have nothing higher that AAA. How about people living in cities right on the border? Do you stop guys from traveling 5 miles to play with a team?
Plus, there is no way to stop the 'money' guys from buying teams. We have faced that all of our careers. There is just no way to be fair to everyone and even it out. If you do have ideas, call Dave at SSUSA because he has put a tremendous number of hours into this issue. I have found that the more I have looked at the issue, the more complicated it seems to get.
Dec. 27, 2010
CRUSADERVB
Men's 65
272 posts
THIS IS GETTING REAL OLD ABOUT 60 MAJOR PLUS GUYS BEING ''THE MONEY GUYS'' WE DON'T EVEN HAVE A SPONSOR, WE HAVE SOME PLAYERS THAT ARE CHIPPING IN WITH THEIR OWN MONEY FOR ENTRY FEES.
RON DANOSKI [GSF]
''THE NO MONEY GUYS''
Dec. 27, 2010
Al33
Men's 55
183 posts
Webbie25, good comments, but as long as people keep complaining about the Major Plus level and getting moved up, those in power should keep looking for ways to improve the system. To accept the status quo accomplishes nothing.
Both sides have legitimate points of view. As I said before I don't know what the answer is but there is one out there.
I also don't think there's a required number of people needed in an area or state to field a quality team. All my team mates live within 40 miles of each other. I see your point, but you can't open up pandoras box to help a guy travel 5 miles to play. Rules are usually set up for the majority and not to cater to the minority.
Your right too, we've been playing against money for 35-40 years. It was actually worse back then bcause the tax laws were different and more money was being spent.

Duke, You're way to sensitive. If you think I'm going to let you take a pot shot at me first without commenting your mistaken. Your verbage is very antagonistic. If you paid attention to an earlier post, I agreed with you. So no, I have no issues with you just your attitude. Excuse me if I didn't totally agree with you, didn't say what you wanted to hear or struck a nerve.
You are the one that started the thread in the first place. You had to expect to get some comments back. At least you have nothing else to say on this subject. You'll be back. Have a nice Holiday Season.
Dec. 27, 2010
Webbie25
Men's 60
1983 posts
Al33-I went to the rules meeting this year with ideas to help major plus among other ideas. They were listened to very closely and very actively discussed. I guarantee if you took your ideas to the 'powers that be' that they would listen to you. They are consistently and daily looking for the answers to this problem and welcome any ideas!! They seriously want to make it work.
Dec. 27, 2010
Al33
Men's 55
183 posts
Webbie25, Thanks for taking the time to attend the meeting this year. You seem to be a very level headed person on the issues and are more than likely a good representative.
Dec. 27, 2010
Webbie25
Men's 60
1983 posts
Psssssst--- Al33 don't tell my wife that!!!! She thinks I'm a goofball!!
Seriously, thanks for the kind words. I just want to help the game.
Dec. 27, 2010
turn2
486 posts
Ron,
We are planing on Dalton, Vegas and mabe that Monday after Vegas go to the Huntsman Games. We may do USSSA also and then we will do the local ones. Burlington, Manassas and Salem.
Glad to see GSF may be coming to Dalton. Ron here is my email if anything changes.
Thanks,
Donnie
Turn Two
turntocard@aol.com
Dec. 27, 2010
garyheifner
361 posts
I feel for the guys stuck in the major plus situation on teams that formed up, practiced, got hot at the right time and won tournies that moved them up. I have no feelings of remorse for teams (manager) who went out and recruited the best players at every position from a muti state area. Some put together all star teams and now must sleep in the bed they made. Three divisions would make sense for the above problem. However, I play on a very competitive 65 AA team that is in the hunt at every ring tourney although we usually fall short. 65 AA was amazing last year as in every big tourney any of 6-8 teams in the field could have won. Most AAs can't beat a AAA teams without the 11th defender or the 5 runs. I fear a reduction to 3 divisions might push some very legit AAAs down into AA. I watched a few games in Phoenix that were 65 Major and Major plus. I saw quite a difference in the hitting between the two and both light years above AA. If you combine the 2 how will you make it fair for the major talented teams who must now play against the legit major plus teams? It looks to me the major teams might be little more than sacricial lambs so the Major + guys can have more games.
Dec. 28, 2010
curveball
Men's 65
400 posts
gary, I agree with your post. There is no way to change the divisions and classifications and keep everyone happy.
if you combine the top two classifications, you are indeed throwing the Major teams to the lions. That's why in my thinking, if a change has to be made, it should be in changing the age of divisions, 50-58, 59-67, and so on. This makes more sense to me because it puts players with even talent against one another instead of better against weaker.
Dec. 28, 2010
Jawood
Men's 50
798 posts
I don't know why some of you think that all Major-plus teams are well funded and recruit from all of their bordering states? We are stuck in the 50 Major-plus division with no money and everyone (except one) from the same medium sized state.

At least in the 50's, the Major-plus teams could easily be grouped with the top 20 Major teams and create a great division. I don't know about other divisions because I'm not there yet, but EVERYONE can't win a championship. If a team is clearly better than the rest, put some restrictions on them. If teams are taking and paying every good player from their bordering states and have a six figure budget, then they deserve to play in a 2 team tournament or as an "exhibition" team but the rest of us do not, this is not supposed to be professional softball.
Dec. 28, 2010
turn2
486 posts
I do not know of any senior players that are getting paid to play senior ball. Why doe severyone think this? Just because teams have great players that doesn't mean thay get payed.
The only players I know that get payed are the young guys in the Major and A division.
Most major plus teams just try to get the best talent available because they know when you go to the top tourneys you will be playing some great competition. If you do not bring your best team you mind as well stay home. We just want to play against the best competition out there when we attend the tourneys.
Donnie

Dec. 28, 2010
jrhunch
96 posts
jawood i feel your pain.my team is funded at about 60% of our expenses but we do not recruit anyone outside our city.we are very lucky to have a sponsor who encourages friendship and loyalty thus as long as we keep his family oriented ways winning is not the only issue.for years we were self sponsored and kept the same teammates.we have always tried to play the best that we can and against the best that we could.when we got to major plus we were murdered.we won 1 game this year against major plus teams.we were outclassed.i will never pick up outside our area unless i dont have enough players to field a team.i understand that some areas of the country has to recruit players in order to field a team but that is the exception and not the rule in major and major plus.i think that alot of the problems can be solved with commonsense.the players know who the best teams are and who is major and major plus but somehow we are not heard or because of pettiness will shy away from the truth.here is one fact i know :recruiting the best players from other areas to form a superteam creates less teams.thus less teams to play.because of recuiting players teams that dont recruit are at a disadvantage.
Dec. 28, 2010
#45inMd
Men's 60
108 posts
I play for a 55M+ team that just got moved up out of Maryland. My team has NO sponsoreship at all. We are a league team that plays on Wednesday and weekend tournaments. we pay our own expense (hotel, air, car rental) and try to sell raffle tickets for tournament fees. So it is hard to play team made up of all-stars but we will show up and play hard.

Getting paid does mean many things. We all know some players will not travel if say rooms,and/or air,and/or car rental are not paid for.

so is paying expense for players the same as getting paid???
Dec. 28, 2010
turn2
486 posts
Ross,
What is going on? Hope everything is well. Since you guys got moved up we may have to play you guys this year in Manassas. You young guys take to it easy on my old 60's team.
A sponsor helping to pay for rooms is something different. Some people made like people were being paid to play and that is not the case. There a lot of teams that get tournaments paid for by the sponsor and some even help with rooms or travel. In my opinion this is not getting paid.
Donnie
Later
Donnie
Dec. 29, 2010
DCPete
235 posts
Ross, hopefully Santa Claus brought you some protective pitching gear for when you have to go up against those Major+ Ultra 2 hitters.
Dec. 29, 2010
#45inMd
Men's 60
108 posts
Donnie, Doing well. Our team will look different with 6 moving up to 60M.

With only 2 or 3 55M+ teams playing here on the east coast at the Ft Myers T we were the only 55M+ team there so we played the 50M. They had 5 55M teams there that we played all year that we won some and lost some. So I we will play some 60M+ and some 50M teams all year.

Now for being paid if a sponsor helps with expense that is great for them but if I spend $500 or more to go a tournament and others have expense paid it is like being paid.

Who thinks a sponsor paying most of the players expense is the same as a player being paid?

Pete, No new gear for pitching but new bat if it gets here.
Dec. 29, 2010
Bomber #7
Men's 60
62 posts
Sponsor paying most expenses is the same as being paid. I see no difference between a player accepting cash or getting air, room, or rental cars paid for. Bottom line for the player is the same either way. This is very common even in our bad economy.
There are quite a few players that won't play if they aren't given something..................that equates to being paid.
Dec. 31, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
I was sent a list of the 65 teams that are M & M+ teams and there were 38 teams from all over for 2011
Tried to copy & past here but its an image file and won't work.
Dec. 31, 2010
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
That mentioned, there are some teams listed that were last rated in 2007 & 2008, so its possible they may no longer exist or moved. That's quite a dry, absentee period.
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