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Online now: 0 members ; 101 anonymousDiscussion: Are some Positions more important than others?
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| Jan. 22, 2011 FOFO Men's 60 284 posts | Are some Positions more important than others? Wanted to know how guys feel about defensive positions. Are there some you feel are more important to a teams success than others are they all equal? Say you have a player who is the best defensive player you have at all positions, where would you play him? |
| Jan. 22, 2011 Enviro-Vac Men's 65 489 posts | Yes...pitchng, short stop & a smart catcher who can also hit. |
| Jan. 22, 2011 wagon487 Men's 55 578 posts | smart catcher? really? more important than a fast out fielder? a second baseman that can turn two? smart catcher, um, that's a first. |
| Jan. 22, 2011 birdie Men's 70 802 posts | FOFO, Your best defensive player may not be able to play outfield or infield. He will have a position that he plays extremely well, that is where you put him. I would rank the positions as 1 Pitcher 2 shortstop and 3 left fielder (more right hand hitters than left). Those would be my top three. After that I would go second base. third base and any other outfield position. Outfielders are hard to find sometimes you may have a good infielder who can play the outfield(if he is able)that person needs to make the sacrifice and move to the outfield for the good of the team. Good outfielders to me are hard to find. You can never find enough. Thanks Harry (First baseman soon to be catcher) |
| Jan. 22, 2011 #6 Men's 60 1173 posts | I agree, pitcher is #1 SS is #2 left fielder 3# 2nd base #4 |
| Jan. 22, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | While a good one can add something, catcher comes waaaaaay down the list. |
| Jan. 22, 2011 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | Catcher is important because a good one can remember where the opponents hit and how they hit. The pitcher ca do well to watch hit glove to pitch inside or out deep or short by where the catcher signifies with the glove...At least that's what I do..... but hate playing the position. Can't remember each player. As for the LF, I partially agree but think the LCF and RCF are just as important because they usually can cover the ones on either side of themselves as well as their own...They need the good legs and glove too. But its the TEAM as a whole that does it together. NO, I or ME, its a WE played it game. |
| Jan. 22, 2011 Enviro-Vac Men's 65 489 posts | OK...LOL, I agree on the catcher as not being top 3 in importance but I do love a hard hitting catcher with lots of ball smarts and memory. LC and 2nd is a good call in importance. |
| Jan. 22, 2011 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | Enviro-Vac Do you ever see Warren Harlow? If so please give him my regards, Thanks |
| Jan. 22, 2011 birdie Men's 70 802 posts | Just another thought, We are talking about physical skills here.I know a lot of great athletes that do not have a clue of what to do. They need directions and guidance. There are a lot of players that do not have any BASEBALL sense in this game. This game was founded on the principles of baseball and there are a lot of non playing baseball people that play this game at a high level. After all we do under hand the ball with a arc. I would never rank a catcher high ( until I become one) but somebody needs to remind the clueless what to do and who better than a catcher. Thanks Harry |
| Jan. 22, 2011 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | I'll agree on the physical ability, but they also need the mentality to make it work. The physical really comes into play with those that can still dive and run backwards and\or sideways to catch them. |
| Jan. 22, 2011 Omar Khayyam 1357 posts | I know a really good catcher who is gimpy and can't contribute much on offense. But he is the only catcher I trust to remember batters and call position on my pitches. Too bad that I play so seldom with him (hasn't been on my team in years). Usually I have to work to remember batters, but a good catcher can really help with that. Still, I would put shortstop first, then pitcher, then left center fielder. We sometimes hide a slow outfielder in left and let the LCF cover the ground. It is also heartbreaking to have a weak second baseman, especially when the other team discovers his weaknesses. FOFO, another good post! |
| Jan. 22, 2011 birdie Men's 70 802 posts | Taits, The guys that can make the plays and know what to do after they make the plays are the true players. There are some players who can make the plays and are clueless after they do.They are the ones that need help to acquire a knowledge for the game. It is a wonderful game that we play. Thanks Harry |
| Jan. 22, 2011 birdie Men's 70 802 posts | Omar,I think all that you described for a catcher can be handle by somebody who keeps a good score book. He should chart where the batter has hit before etc. You do not need a catcher for that. Thanks Harry |
| Jan. 22, 2011 stacks59 Men's 60 35 posts | Harry--Thanks for defending me in your assessment of the catcher position!! Sorry to jump in late into the thread. I don't know very much about the game, but I've always believed your best defense is a strong middle: Pitcher, SS, 2nd, LC and RC. |
| Jan. 22, 2011 birdie Men's 70 802 posts | Mark, I hope all is well with you. Good luck at the TOC. Catcher my ass. You can play any position that you choose. all of the outfield positions are important. I could be change my mind and go with the LC RC. Thanks Harry |
| Jan. 22, 2011 DoubleL10 Men's 70 907 posts | Mark and Harry, I'm with you guys. When I put a team together, I want my defensive strength to be up the middle - pitcher, SS, 2B, LCF and RCF. That's why I play LF most of the time! |
| Jan. 22, 2011 birdie Men's 70 802 posts | Larry, you can play anywhere. Thanks Harry |
| Jan. 22, 2011 stacks59 Men's 60 35 posts | Harry--Thanks wish you guys were going!Larry--I'm glad to see that you can still cover it! It's been a while since I seen you play--old Capital Xrays Days. I think I was just breaking in to the 35's then. Are you playing the TOC? |
| Jan. 22, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Even if the catcher wants to give me location, and they occasionally do, they aren't going to call speed, amount of arc, motion, length of pause, or angle the pitch is released from. Location, while important, is just a piece of it. |
| Jan. 22, 2011 Omar Khayyam 1357 posts | Gary19, all true about what a catcher can do and what a pitcher still has to do. You can see how desperate I have been for an experienced catcher that I can praise the one who only remembers batters and what they DON'T like. |
| Jan. 22, 2011 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | i catch a lot for the kids when not pitching,and i'll tell i do remember a lot of the batters.can't tell how many times when our young guy pitching came to me smiling b/c i gave him a location for a pitch and he gets the batter out.while maybe the not most important guy on the team,he is the only one on every batted ball that has the field in front of him,so with that he needs to be yelling on where throws should be going and such,so he can't be just someone who retrieves the ball and throws it back to the pitcher.also needs to have 1b ability back there to field throws. me i like a real good middle like most everyone else. 1-p 2-ss 3-lcf,rcf,lf,1b 4-3b,c,2b 5-rf,with this guy i want a strong arm also if i could have my way,all my inf'ers would be ss from their early days. |
| Jan. 22, 2011 TOMAR77 Men's 65 333 posts | As a Mgr. IMHO, I have build my team on #1 Pitcher, #2 Outfielders, thats it. I figure if I can recruit skilled outfielders I have player's that are athletes that can play several positions. The one possible exception would be SS. However my current SS has played the O.F.on most of his previous teams, but is becoming a very solid SS for us. However I would agree if you have a player who knows the fundamentals of our game that is a plus, especially at catcher. So , when it comes down to it ,if you know the game , if you can run , if you can catch , if you can throw the ball accuratly with some zip , if you can field ground balls and have range , than I guess that is the most important position! By the way if you can do all the above contact me at your earliest convenience I have been looking for you! |
| Jan. 22, 2011 DoubleL10 Men's 70 907 posts | Yes, Mark, I'll be at the TOC with the Texas Makulis 60 Major bunch. Who are you playing with - I assume you are in the 50s? |
| Jan. 22, 2011 stacks59 Men's 60 35 posts | I'm with Metro Stars in the 50Major--Billy Cameron and Tudor are playing with IMS Dogs this weekend. I think we are in Winter Park? I'm trying to get in to make the practice games--the indoor stuff doesn't allow to much as far as movement while fielding. Hope to see you sometime during the weekend! |
| Jan. 22, 2011 garyheifner 649 posts | I am a strong believe that if you have a SS and a LCF, you have a team. SS with great range and arm. The LCF has the power alley. He must be able to charge, go back, and cover 2 gaps. |
| Jan. 24, 2011 southpaw Men's 70 1077 posts | Ever tried to play with just 9 defenders? 3 outfielders, especially at our age is practically impossible! My point: every position is important; just for different reasons. Every player on a team is vital for different reasons. Some are there as role player , others as an impact player. But team, means just that--unity, with everyone pulling their share of the load and supporting and encouraging one another. |
| Jan. 24, 2011 bucs15 25 posts | Ditto southpaw I don't believe in individual awards my opinion is it takes the whole team even the coaches to win or even compete.Say your Strong up the middle and weak on the corners well good hitters will find the weakness's and stay away from the strengths.As for 3 outfielders we play this occasionally when teams continue to hit middle,we try to mix things up and change there swings,sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.Anyway just my opinion,See you all @ the TOC and good luck to all. |
| Jan. 24, 2011 Capt Kirk 541 posts | It does take a team effort to be successful and I what look for in players is character, determination, sportmanship, the will to win, never giving up, chemistry, and players who will committ to a team and stick with the team. I have 10 or 11 players that are always there and I can count on, that is the players that I am committed to as their manager. Gary Kirk Texas Tornado's |
| Jan. 24, 2011 FOFO Men's 60 284 posts | In the end we all know it takes 10 guys playing together to win, but I wanted to know if you had this imaginary player who was the GREATEST player in the world at all 10 positions, where would you play him? For me P, SS, LC, RC, 2b, LF, RF, 3b, 1b, C. Great discussion by all. Thanks for the input. |
| Jan. 25, 2011 Uncle Mike Men's 60 122 posts | What a great question ! I don't think there are too many wrong answers. Pitcher is probably #1 on 99% of the peoples "ballots" and SS #2. After that, there would be great discussions about all the other positions. I've won Major Senior Tournaments with stellar play @ 1B and the middle outfielders and with great play by SS, 3B, and 2B. But, if I had to put the Greatest player in the world in 1 spot, I'd say : P, SS, 2B,LC, RC, 3B,LF, RF, 1B, and C. I think catchers are being over rated, anybody can remember where somebody hit last time, in the past, etc... I hear the other teams' scorekeeper telling them where I hit last time. I know the catcher can provide feedback on the batters position in the box and scoop like a 1st basemen sometimes. But, he is really either the sponsor, a big bat without a good glove, someones' friend who has some pull on the team, a sub, someone who can't move, or another starting fielder taking a rest from their normal position. |
| Jan. 25, 2011 FOFO Men's 60 284 posts | Uncle Mike, I Love your take on Catcher. Great Stuff. I agree 100% |
| Jan. 26, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Mike is quite correct about the catcher. Though I don't think there is anyway the 2B is more important than all of the outfielders. |
| Jan. 26, 2011 #6 Men's 60 1173 posts | Before I started playing Senior ball, we had a catcher who's only job was to hit the ball out of the park,which he did. He couldn't run ( but had too ) and he "could" throw the ball back to the pitcher ! I know Senior ball if a lot different than back then playing open ball ! |
| Jan. 26, 2011 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | well guys keep putting a slug back there a catcher,now do you same people who think the catcher's spot doesn't need be anyone but a basher make him your mvp for a tourney. if he hits .700 and hits a hr for every 5 hits he gets,is that good enough.say like he gives up 5 runs a game b/c of his play back there,what then... personally i like someone back that knows what is going in the game myself. |
| Jan. 26, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | True, though let's be honest. The game is just not very complicated. Not all that long ago little girls were playing it, and even they have since moved on to fast-pitch. |
| Jan. 26, 2011 Mr. Manassas 244 posts | I thnk that any position can be played at a high level. I too feel that a good team is tough up the middle...And as in any game, there are people that play it at a higher level than others. Your(Gary) reference to the game being one that morons can play is somewhat offensive. |
| Jan. 26, 2011 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | also it is a game invented by men for men,so why does this being a girls game keep coming up,some people need to check their history/facts. |
| Jan. 27, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | A) I never said 'morons', and please tell me what is so complex about it. B) Regardless of who invented it, and I never disputed that, the game at least in these parts was heavily played by little girls until they moved on to the more complex game of fast-pitch. Little boys weren't playing, they played baseball. All males played hardball for as long as they physically could, then moved to slow-pitch. |
| Jan. 27, 2011 Mr. Manassas 244 posts | You can break any game down to it's simplest form. All games are simple. Golf is a simple game...just difficult to master.....What is your point?? |
| Jan. 27, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Sure, I suppose. But the 'simplest form' of some games are more complex than the 'simplest form' of others. Not all simplest forms are created equal. Point was, the alleged mental aspect of the catching position in slow-pitch is vastly over-rated. |
| Jan. 27, 2011 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Gary, I agree, the game is simple, if you only score 3 or 4 runs a game. If you expect to win consistantly you have to figure out how to score 25, 30 or more runs a game. Back to the catcher position. An average player catching won't hurt a team. An extraordinary guy catching can really help a team. |
| Jan. 27, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Bruce, the way you do that is hit the ball. There are VERY few 'manufactured runs' in slow-pitch. Perhaps by hustle, but seldom by strategy. Can a catcher help? Sure. But is the position any higher than the 10th most important on the field, probably not. |
| Jan. 27, 2011 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Gary, you should have worded your statement to "hit the ball where they ain't". Hitting the ball hard just doesn't get the job done. |
| Jan. 27, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Bruce, very true! Though most hard hit balls in Seniors do get the job done due to the obvious decreased range of the fielders at our ages. but yes, the balls do have to find a hole. |
| Jan. 27, 2011 Corky Men's 55 451 posts | Although a catcher may not rank as the most important position,take a minute to think of all he can do for a team if he is smart enough.....when batters come to the plate they usually glance in the direction they would like to hit. 1) watch the batters when they come out of the on deck circle. Watch how they set up (closed stance, open, up front, deep in the box, up on the handle etc....2)remember where they hit. 3)Most pitchers get into a rythm and don't want to chase wild throws from the catcher. Hit him chest high with the return. 4) work the umpires (suck up :)..... 5) adjust fielders and holler for cut offs. 6) Back up throws. 7)Slow a pitcher down if he's delivering a pitch before fielders get set. (specially for outfielders who have just chased a foul ball into the corners)...and last but not least HIT and RUN for himself.....Not the most important but can be very effective. Just some food for thought |
| Jan. 27, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Corky, I agree that a good catcher can certainly add something. But most of what you mentioned can and often is easily done by someone else on the field. No one else is going to catch the fly hit to right but the rightfielder. No one else is going to turn the DP on the throw from short but the 2B. No one else is going to pick the throw in the dirt to first but the 1b. And ultimately no one else is going to decide what pitch is thrown, with what location, how much arc, how much speed, from where, and with what motion but the pitcher. Again, a catcher does have a role, but it is 10th out of the 10. |
| Jan. 27, 2011 Mr. Manassas 244 posts | I do agree that the catcher's position might be rated 10 out of ten in it's defensive responcibilty rating but I have seen many teams just prop somebody up back there and get hurt later in the game when there is a play at the plate that can determine who wins. Bruce ...Aren't you suppose to be working????? |
| Jan. 27, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Certainly, though in fairness it is really never that one play determines a game. The last play often gets the blame, but typically there are many earlier in the game that have just as much to do with who wins. Runs scored, or saved, in innings 1 - 6 mean just as much as those in the 7th. |
| Jan. 27, 2011 Sloball39 Men's 60 15 posts | Corky makes a very good point. As for someone else on the field handling the things Corky mentioned, remember that the catcher has everything happening in front of him. He is the logical player to control the game. Defensively he is still 10 of 10. I would always want to build a team up the middle first. |
| Jan. 27, 2011 southpaw Men's 70 1077 posts | I would like to propose for your consideration a motion that the position of catcher be eliminated. I am sure that the umpire would be glad to retrieve the ball and return it to the pitcher. Also, it will be understood that the pitcher and/or first baseman will cover home if a play is to be made. The catcher is the only dispensable player on the team, isn't he?!! |
| Jan. 27, 2011 birdie Men's 70 802 posts | southpaw, I as a future catcher find that proposal cruel and inhumane. I would have to go and play golf full time. I cannot DH. I would go crazy and my fellow teammates would ask me to leave the dugout because they cannot stand be being in there. Thanks Harry |
| Jan. 27, 2011 southpaw Men's 70 1077 posts | Birdie, we all have our cross to bear. Or is it bare? Oh well, you know what I mean!! |
| Jan. 27, 2011 Uncle Mike Men's 60 122 posts | When I pitch, I control the game ! I communicate my intentions to the infielders, who relay that info to the outfielders. The catcher, manager, coach, SS, 2B, etc... can point out something to me, but ultimately I control the game when I am on the mound. The catcher can help me with where the batter sets up, but everything else is up to me. Yes, he can disrupt my rhythym, if he keeps doing it, I'll replace him. He may call out the cuts, but I decide how to pich to someone and where to place our fielders, I take into account : how I am feeling ( can I control my pitches) , wind direction and strength, where the batter hit last time, was the pitch short or deep, fast or slow,who's playing 3B or SS for us, who's in left, how many home runs have they hit, does he hit HRs, etc.. I have a good memory, I have some quality pitches, so I make those decisions. Can a good catcher help ? Yes, if you don't have a very sound manager, bench, or coaching staff - who also supply exactly what you are saying, then maybe you may need a more highly skilled catcher ? When I build a team my first call isn't to Joe, the best catcher on the West Coast ! No, I call Sam the best pitcher first. I never call a catcher, because everyone can play catcher. This isn't baseball where this guy is calling pitches ! And if your catcher made an error to lose the game, shame on your manager for having him at the dish when it mattered the most. As for working the umpire, a good bench coach can do the same thing. That's how we do it in Cali !!! Sorry, gotta run it's 78 degrees and surfs up !!! See you guys @ the TOC in a couple of weeks !!! |
| Jan. 27, 2011 birdie Men's 70 802 posts | We must all carry it some how. |
| Jan. 27, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | My gosh, was Uncle Mike 100000% correct on that one. |
| Jan. 27, 2011 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Mr M, I did make it to work at 7:40. We had a light day and went on a tour of the Capitol and then the Library of Congress. Just got back to the room. |
| Jan. 27, 2011 lemons Men's 65 323 posts | BruceinGa, I agree with your assessment that an average player catching doesn't hurt the team, but a good player catching can really help. |
| Jan. 27, 2011 Mr. Manassas 244 posts | Bruce.....Your team is playing in the TOC...right? |
| Jan. 27, 2011 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Yes, I'll be there with Southern Elite/Reebok (called Kayson's Grille last year) a 50 major team. I'll be the old guy playing first or eh, #11. |
| Jan. 27, 2011 FOFO Men's 60 284 posts | I have to update my statement on what positions are most important. My most important position would be coach. If you do not have one smart enough or with the balls enough to put players in the correct position, the team will never win. |
| Jan. 28, 2011 Webbie25 Men's 70 2413 posts | The fact that there are arguments for each position here points out that every position is important and can make or break a game. Many years back a team I was on had a 15-1 lead with 2 outs in the 5th and a foul pop was hit, and easy catch for our catcher. Game by mercy rule--not. He dropped it and the other team actually came all the way back to beat us 22-21. A position can be what you make it. An aggressive catcher can be a big asset in a lot of plays. First base is down on a lot of lists, but a first baseman that helps back up the catcher, keeps alert and in position to corral errant throws, fields his position well, and can dig out the low throw is very valuable also. I do agree it is up the middle where a team needs to be strong-P, SS, 2B, LC, RC. See you guys at the TOC. |
| Jan. 28, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Webbie, your example is a good one, but also points out that it is WAY more than just one play that decides a game. Sure, that catch would have ended it, but that play alone did not give up 21 runs. My hunch is that was not the only error in that game. |
| Jan. 28, 2011 Webbie25 Men's 70 2413 posts | No, but the point was in that one game that if the catch was made, the game is over and they would not have had the chance to score the 21 runs. It brings to mind one of the quotes that will live in Desperado lore forever after a player dropped an easy fly in the seventh that would have ended the game--"It wasn't your dropping the fly ball that lost it, it was the 6 runs they scored after it!". There are always so many plays that determine a game. That's what makes it fun. A run in the first that could have been prevented or was manufactured is as important as one in the seventh. |
| Jan. 28, 2011 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | how many times do ya's not throw home b/c you don't trust the catcher to catch a ball unless its a perfect waist/chest type throw. |
| Jan. 28, 2011 tg69 393 posts | To all that think your catcher should be your best defensive man I hope if and when we play each other you have him catching.I agree the pitcher is a number one priorty but most ,i say most catchers are there for a reason,that being that they cant run anymore or they cant catch a fly ball or they cant handle those 125MPH line drives and grounders that infielders look at .sure there are times that a catcher makes a difference but this is still softball where you have to PITCH and CATCH the ball.Everyone on the field still wears a glove for a reason.just my opinion. |
| Jan. 28, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | mad dog, never. |
| Jan. 28, 2011 #6 Men's 60 1173 posts | mad dog, Were Buddies, but in the senior ball tournaments I play in, we throw home because the catcher, CAN CATCH ! Now in our Sunday night league, that's a completely different matter.lol ! |
| Jan. 28, 2011 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | kenny,but if you have someone back there that is a 50/50 on catching a ball it is real hard to throw to them.yes league gets even a little more dicey as most are just there to play some and get a little exercise.i personally like a 1b glove type player back behind the plate. |
| Jan. 29, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Seriously, you have grown men who are 50/50 on just catching a basic throw? And that is on a tournament team??????? Have you suggested they take up checkers? |
| Jan. 29, 2011 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | and you catch 100% of all balls hit at you,or thrown,don't think so,you really don't get it,it must be nice to be the great player you are,i wish i had a tourney team as great as you are,we would never loose a game,by batting 1.000,fielding a 1.000 and win every tourney we enter............. |
| Jan. 29, 2011 Enviro-Vac Men's 65 489 posts | FOFO -what have you started here? LOL |
| Jan. 29, 2011 FOFO Men's 60 284 posts | Not sure but it sure is fun. |
| Jan. 29, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Again, seriously? You don't see a difference between catching a ball hit with the special bats and a grown man catching a basic throw? Really, your "arguments" continue to plummet to new depths. And then you usually resort to immature sarcasm. Sad, pup, really very sad. :( |
| Jan. 29, 2011 birdie Men's 70 802 posts | Gary19, Who are you addressing. I might have had too many Vodkas but I see no sense in your post. Please point it out, but politely. I should read all the above post but I do not want to.I have played the game for a long time and back in the day it was always your third base man. He would get you 5 runs but you would only hope that he gave up 4 runs. I should not even post this but that is not my style. If I have missed something then it is my bad. Thanks Harry |
| Jan. 29, 2011 southpaw Men's 70 1077 posts | I do hope that this article is really all in fun. If not, that is why I added the silliness of "A Sputnik Moment". For the over the top stuff, makes me wonder if any team's catcher will even show up!! |
| Jan. 29, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | birdie, it was to mad dog. And specifically it was a response to his last post. If you start reading the thread at the point above where mad dog talks about catchers who only have a 50/50 chance of catching a basic throw home it will make more sense. |
| Jan. 29, 2011 FOFO Men's 60 284 posts | My thought on what a catcher needs for defensive skill set? While he may not have to field grounders like the rest of the infielders and run like an outfielder, it is a big plus if he can dig them out with the best of them. Any out at home is a big one. |
| Jan. 29, 2011 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | no dipty you catch the ball with a glove either way,why are you so condescending toward the catcher's position,if its not important why have one,just have the ump roll the ball back to the pitcher.also not all balls thrown there are in a perfect spot to catch,at least the most of the throws i have seen,so there comes the athletic ability to play there,must be able to move around some(like a 1b),but hey its a very simple game as you say,so what major+ team are you playing for. |
| Jan. 30, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | sad pup, YOU are the one who described a catcher who is "50/50 on catching a ball" and I am condescending? You are speaking like apparently a true catcher. Or your father was one. Or your mother. Or someone you are getting very defensive about. All I did was question your ridiculous assertion that there are grown men out there who only catch half the balls thrown at them, and you go off twisted rants toward me. Very sad, puppy! Please tell me, compared to ANY other team sport, what is so complex about slow-pitch softball. |
| Jan. 30, 2011 Tater50 Men's 60 336 posts | "Are there some you feel are more important to a teams success". As I have discussed in past threads: You cannot make a greyhound out of a St. Bernard; O/F or I/F: all have their place & yes the Catcher is lowest on the list; but the BIGGEST reason for any success of any team is...........ATTITUDE! You can have the best team top to bottom as fas as skill is concerned & still be losers overall because of attitude; negativity; wanting all the glory; never able to get another team mate an attaboy. I'd rather have a "B" Mechanic w/a good attitude that shows up to work everyday; that encourages other workers & gives 100%, than an "A" Mechanic that shows up whenever & is negative. The "B" in the long run will succeed beyond the "A". Tater50 |
| Jan. 30, 2011 FOFO Men's 60 284 posts | Tater, Well said. You hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately my team has some of the problems you describe. This surprises me because for some reason I thought by 50 we would be past that. I was sadly mistaken. I think it's only gotten worse. To many guys can think only of themselves, but that's another thread all together. |
| Jan. 30, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | FOFO, you are absolutely correct. It is why there have been threads on here about how all-tourney teams are picked, and old guys grumbling about not having been selected. I thought the games are played to win, but I guess not to everyone. |
| Jan. 30, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | FOFO, you are absolutely correct. It is why there have been threads on here about how all-tourney teams are picked, and old guys grumbling about not having been selected. I thought the games are played to win, but I guess not to everyone. |
| Jan. 30, 2011 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | well as usual dipty you fail to really read what is going on in a thread.i'm the one saying you need someone back there who can catch,but hey your the one with all the higher education,not me,maybe you should use it and not waste it. tater,yes i have been there and done that,with a team i threw together for a tourney.was on a base and got a bunch of b leaguer's(as our base team thought they should be nothing but bangers) to go to a tourney and held our own very nicely.i got guys who thought defense was part of the game and didn't mind getting singles and stretching them to doubles and such.we did end up facing our own base team and came within 1 run of beating them.we had a great time with it.like you say attitude was everything. |
| Jan. 30, 2011 Tater50 Men's 60 336 posts | "Most Important part of a team's Success" IMO & as one who has been there/done that; it is the Coach/Manager/Sponsor. You can have Allstars; complex personalities & etc; but the Coach/Manager/Sponsor is the guy(s) that have to spend HOURS preparing for a tourney; setting up the batting order as not to offend someone; trying to get the money there on time; setting up the motels; trying to keep the whole team positive. All the Allstars have to do is show up. He is the one that takes the loss & wonders what the heck he did wrong: mainly because every guy on his team took off that weekend; spent tons of money & did not come away w/a trophy. Then he has to feel the bad spirits of guys who know everything in the WORLD about coaching, but of course, NEVER coach!! It's not all about winning? If that is the case; go take BP close to home w/the guys, drink some, go home & save ALL your money!! The coach/manager/sponsor is at the TOP of the list for success of a ball team. I have said this many times: if you are fortunate to have a sponsor; every chance that you get you should let him know about it. Tater50 |
| Jan. 30, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | All I asked you, and you failed to address, is if you really have grown men who only have a 50/50 chance of catching a ball? Instead you choose to rip on my multiple degrees. Still sad, puppy. |
| Jan. 30, 2011 birdie Men's 70 802 posts | Gary19, When communicating through this type of format, I believe that a lot of meanings are lost. I have referred to myself as 50-50 at times. I think that you have a 50-50 chance of getting a hit fielding a ground ball etc. You either catch it or miss it. so to me that would be 50-50.I am sure that I field better and hit better than 500, but it is still 50-50. Thanks Harry |
| Jan. 30, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Harry, if sad puppy had explained his "lingo" like you just did that would have been fine. Instead, he chose to resort to his usual sarcasm and personal attacks. |
| Jan. 30, 2011 #6 Men's 60 1173 posts | Tater50, Your 100 % correct........I always tell our coach who is also our pitcher what a great job he does. It is so hard to try and coach and play....he does both well. Hats off to our coach/pitcher, Gary Bowles, Tanel360/Biud Light of Austin....it also doesn't hurt to have a " good pitcher short stop left fileder second baseman. lol ! |
| Jan. 30, 2011 Corky Men's 55 451 posts | Although I specifically put a disclaimer at the top of my post on catchers, someone (and we all know who that was) took off and ran with the notion I was saying he is the most important defender. NONSENSE. But our team has 2 good first basemen. One hits .900 and the other hits over .800.....they trade off on defense and with home plate being a force out, either player is a logical choice for the position. (R e a d t h i s r e a l s l o w) and maybe, a couple times and you might get my drift. if not, let the lambasting begin. On our squad we all are considered valuable. |
| Jan. 30, 2011 Gary19 Men's 50 2609 posts | Corky, who are you claiming said that you said catcher is the most important? Could you please point out the post that was done in? Thanks! |
| Jan. 30, 2011 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | corky don't bother as no matter what you say,it will be construed by some as tho you said just the opposite.some people would rather argue,they depend on it to fulfill their lives. i'm with you,i like someone who plays catcher like a 1b.good at digging out throws and movement to go get the stray throws,as they will be many. |
| Jan. 30, 2011 Uncle Mike Men's 60 122 posts | I think we have a lot of different viewpoints regarding catchers because there are different circumstances in each case. And I respect everyones' take on the position. I'd love to have a catcher hit .900 and scoop like the best first baseman in the world and be able to chase down wild throws etc... But, I draw from a limited pool of players in my area, and I choose to go with the "hot" bat for now. I choose to fill my team with character guys instead of all-stars. So I don't actively recruit out of our general area, Ventura County- California. We are the only "travel" team within 100 miles north of us, LA is only 80 miles south of us, there is no west of us because of the Pacific Ocean, and there is no east of us because of the mountains. We are extremely lucky, in that, we have great team chemistry and but we are also highly competetive. I don't have the luxury of a more densely populated area like Los Angeles to recruit a superstar catcher from. So we take turns manning the position. In a tight game I will put in a better defender, but we all provide insight to the pitcher and fielders so they can make adjustments. So everything that people have pointed out as necessary in this thread, we deem equally important as well. We just don't have that 1 size fits all type of catcher in our area, we have to piece "him" together. I think geographic location, talent pool, age group, division, and simply who you know- define our logic and reasoning. Our softball experiences also shape our outlook on the level of importance. |
| Jan. 31, 2011 Omar Khayyam 1357 posts | Uncle Mike, I think I would enjoy playing on your team. |
| March 2, 2011 Webbie25 Men's 70 2413 posts | Each position can be important in a game in certain situations. A position is what you make it. Playing first-if the play goes by, like an extra base hit, I am headed toward the plate in case of an errant throw or a backup need. A catcher need to keep his team on their toes and handle throws well. So many guys just go out and sit there-instead of making the position something. And that play you don't expect always happens when you least expect it. |
| March 6, 2011 Jetboy 62 posts | I didn't read every last message in this incredibly long thread but I would like to add a good first baseman is important to a team. Does do much good to have a shortstop with a great glove and a rocket arm if there is no one across the diamond who can scoop the ball up. |
| March 7, 2011 doker Men's 60 185 posts | Most important position???? pitcher/shortstop and all outfield positions...first base ,second and third in that order...a catcher who can play like a first baseman is a plus.....also it does make a difference in what division you are playing in.....double AA needs a good infield more than a triple AAA and Major/Major+..where a good fast outfield is more important...as there are fewer balls hit down to the infield.....doker |
| March 7, 2011 Webbie25 Men's 70 2413 posts | doker-where are the caps? I almost couldn't hear you whispering!!! :-) |
| March 7, 2011 Capt Kirk 541 posts | doker, are you sure about your most important position player(s)? What about the player(s) who are responsible for getting the beer, icing it down, and keeping the ice chests and kegs stocked? |
| March 7, 2011 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | capt,he has kenny #6 to do that,he is their beer-bi@#*.......LOL..... |
| March 12, 2011 lewis 49 posts | Remember Webbie 25 you won the TOC with 10 catchers! |
| March 12, 2011 smooth01 Men's 50 128 posts | Only the positions PeePe plays |
| March 13, 2011 Webbie25 Men's 70 2413 posts | Lewis-you would have been the eleventh! |
| March 17, 2011 Webbie25 Men's 70 2413 posts | lewis-just kidding ---you got quiet---see you tonite |
