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Discussion: Recommend a hot bat

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Feb. 14, 2011
Grey Dawg
Men's 50
8 posts
Recommend a hot bat
Been out of the game for 10 years I have signed up for senior play and can not wait to start playing. I still have good bat speed and just looking for a edge. I have read some reviews on senior bats. Some of the guys in the league I play golf with have told me to buy the Ultra 2. I am sorry if this is posted a lot. Please advise
Feb. 14, 2011
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2617 posts
Depends on your preferences, balanced bat or endload. Most are good, some are more durable than others.
I like the new end load Reebok and the Mike Macenko Combats. Some like Ultra 2's and the Worth Toxic. GBA and Bass also have senior bats but I'm not familiar with them.
Feb. 14, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Grey, while Bruce makes many valid points from my experience once you start playing you will see that 75+% of the bats being used by Seniors are Ultra 2s.
Feb. 14, 2011
surf88
Men's 60
862 posts
Grey Dog, There are companies manufacturing composite bats for seniors that are legal and acceptable to majority of senior softball organizations but are generally not acceptable when playing in local/regional recreational and/or town leagues. The 3 most popular makes are the Reebok Melee, Miken Ultra II and the Combat. All three are great bats. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.If I can help, let me know http://www.reebokmeleelegend.com
Feb. 14, 2011
Marv19
Men's 60
429 posts
With all the inconsistency in Chinese manufacturing lately look for one of the Senior Bat companies to tool up here in the USA. Watch the boards for more info as it becomes available. Maybe now when it says made in USA on the barrel it will really mean just that.
Feb. 14, 2011
Corky
Men's 55
446 posts
Hey Marv....Saw that a town in China renamed their city USA so they could put "made in USA" on the products they manufacture. Just a heads up....shows there's a lot of truth to your post
Feb. 14, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Marv, as long as enough guys are still willing to buy the non-durable special bats what is the incentive for any company to incur the extra costs of manufacturing in the states?
Feb. 14, 2011
garyaz
40 posts
Hot as the U2, long life span and made in the USA you bet your a** it would sell!
Feb. 15, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
As hot as the U2 WITH a long life span is probably technologically impossible. What makes the U2 hot is also what makes it fragile. Or any other special bat for that matter. Not sure at this point there is any getting away from that.
Feb. 15, 2011
garyaz
40 posts
I think there is a way and the issue at hand is oversees production. It is my belief that a company can make this bat in the USA and figure out how to make it work.
Feb. 15, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
I am not so sure there is a way. Thin walls are what gives a bat a greater trampoline effect, and hence more pop. It is also thin walls that makes bats less durable and more susceptible to breaking. Not sure how you would have the best of both worlds with today's technology and materials.

Might something come along later that is more durable? Sure. But I am not sure it is here yet, and again as long as old guys are willing to continue buying bats that break just to be able to do in their 50s and 60s what many could not in their 20s and 30s what is the incentive for manufacturers?
Feb. 15, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
mmm so your saying we shouldn't have technology advancement,we should be driving/riding horses still ,or better yet just walk as that is how we all started getting about.gary you need to realize we no longer live in the dark ages,without technology we would be dieing at 50 or even before that,instead of the long life expectancy we have now b/c of technology.you use the SPECIAL bats don't you,get over it.why don't you get on the kids about their special bats they use.....the bats we use now must pass the same test that was originally used to test all bats,no matter what assoc,it is just the kids assoc's(ASA,USSSA,NSA,ETC) who decided they needed another test for bats.so now what......
Feb. 15, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
oops sorry grey-dawg for getting off subject,i like the senior combats they seem to me to stand up the best and have just as much pop as any of the other senior bats.
Feb. 15, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
sad pup, I see you are in attack mode again with your feeble little bark and bite.

Point A, current technology does NOT alow for both the pop AND durability guys are looking for. Just not there.

Point B, yes I use a special bat, though only one. I don't have a golf club set of them. That being said, I also don't whine about the breakage, but accept it as the nature of the thin wall beast. And I don't ask for, or expect, both pop and durability since I know technology does not allow it at this time.

Point C, why do Seniors 'need' to use what the kids do not? I wil help you with this one. So that many can do in their 50s and 60s what they could not in their 20s and 30s.
Feb. 15, 2011
saddlebrookrick
55 posts
Older u2s seem to be much more durable so the technology is here now.
Feb. 15, 2011
crusher
Men's 70
388 posts
POINT C (from above)
I still like to do in my 60's what I did in my 20's....
Any of you men out there that do not, may be 1.
I used a 38oz bat with walls about an inch thick, well you could beat a tree into submission without hurting it.
I would ocasionally hit one out, then then some better bats came out with thinner walls, some lasted one inning or so, then balls were dummed down and bats got better.
So if you stay in shape and work to improve your swing and attitude you can still have that 20 something feeling now and then.
That is one major thing that makes swinging a good bat fun for me.
Feb. 15, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
crusher, yes that is nice. IF it is being done by the batter, and not the bat. I would like to be able to dunk, but doing it off of a trampoline does not at least give me the same satisfaction.

There is no doubt the bat does not do all the work, just as PEDs do not give the user all of his strength. You do still have to work at it. But there is NO question the special bats are a large aid, not just in terms of amount of pop but also size of sweet spot. If they did not provide what is now commonly known as "Miken power" guys would not insist on using them.
Feb. 15, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
i'm in attack mode,i just point out that with out technology we wouldn't living like we are today,do you heat your house with something other than just a fireplace,you also drive a car,do you use electricity,do you use modern meds to help prolong your life,why are you against technology when it is all around us.by the way senior bats are tested the same as when they first were made,nothing special about that,it is the kids assoc's who made the move to test differently,not senior assoc's.

oh by the way talked to another ohio team this past weekend and your rep has taken another hit for being a blohard up there.yep another team that wants nothing to do with you......

so please enlighten us b/c your so good......
Feb. 15, 2011
Marv19
Men's 60
429 posts
OK guys. You'd have to live in So. California I guess to get the next analogy. In my youth we would go to Tijuana to have our cars upholstered. You had to stay with the car because if you didn't they would use something really cheap to pad the tuck and roll. Same thing is happening in China. You turn your back and they take short cuts. This wont happen here in the states. The challenge will be getting it done. I do know its being worked on though. Now for Gary's comment. Yes indeed technology to get both pop and durability exists. But as long as it takes skilled labor to apply it, it wont happen in China. They have a manufacturing philosophy that says if its under 25% defect rate its OK. And these guys duplicated our stealth bomber! How'd you like to be those pilots :O) Also remember durability is mostly relevant to bat speed. I know some guys that will get 2,000 hits or more on any bat. They simply just don't develop enough bat speed. But those guys that are around 100 in bat speed they will get less.
Anything to the contrary most likely could be contributed to the present Chinese inconsistency in the way they manufacture these bats.

Stay tuned for more Bat info... Same "bat" time, Same "bat" channel :O)
Feb. 15, 2011
Marv19
Men's 60
429 posts
OK guys. You'd have to live in So. California I guess to get the next analogy. In my youth we would go to Tijuana to have our cars upholstered. You had to stay with the car because if you didn't they would use something really cheap to pad the tuck and roll. Same thing is happening in China. You turn your back and they take short cuts. This wont happen here in the states. The challenge will be getting it done. I do know its being worked on though. Now for Gary's comment. Yes indeed technology to get both pop and durability exists. But as long as it takes skilled labor to apply it, it wont happen in China. They have a manufacturing philosophy that says if its under 25% defect rate its OK. And these guys duplicated our stealth bomber! How'd you like to be those pilots :O) Also remember durability is mostly relevant to bat speed. I know some guys that will get 2,000 hits or more on any bat. They simply just don't develop enough bat speed. But those guys that are around 100 in bat speed they will get less.
Anything to the contrary most likely could be contributed to the present Chinese inconsistency in the way they manufacture these bats.

Stay tuned for more Bat info... Same "bat" time, Same "bat" channel :O)
Feb. 15, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
marv are you saying American made products don't have the same prols,i think they do.if a company can get away with it,it will happen,don't care on what continent it is made on,IJS.its like the companies dumping waste into the oceans,if caught it costs them no more than 25 k per incident and they are making billions in the mean time,they don't care.same for car companies,the legal suits don't even put a dent into their profits per say so they say the heck with,cheaper for them to keep on making them then to retool.
i do hope bill and his group do make it right,but just saying if he is not there 100% of the time,how can he know......
Feb. 15, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
puppy, sure I use technology. Yes, I drive a car. But I would not refuse to leave my house if I could not drive it, like many on here have said they would stop playing if they could not use the special bats.
And yes I have a furnace, but would not move to Florida if I had to use one of my fire places. But guys on here have written that if the special bats went away so would they.

By the way, could you show where I have ever talked about how 'good' I am?
Feb. 15, 2011
SLOBALL1
Men's 50
173 posts
Marv 19. tha bats may be made in China but, the bat Companies are still US owned and controlled. If you honestly believe bats are less durable because there made in China ,I think that you have another agenda.

For anyone to disagree with Gary19 that technology has not, is not and continues to aid in our performance.You have another agenda as well.
There is not a need to be in "attack mode" because my expressed opinon or an opinon of another board member differs from that of yours.
Feb. 15, 2011
hombre
Men's 60
220 posts
I'm not nearly as knowledgable about bats as most of the men who are posting on this site. However, I still am not convinced that bat manufacturers don't already have the technology to produce a more durable bat with the same performance.
To reiterate an earlier post, when I began playing senior ball in 2003, I bought an UII and used it exclusively for two and a half seasons. It had as much pop as any of the bats I've used since. I was playing about 200 games a season.
I've since broken five UIIs with around 300-350 hits. I know of a few guys who are still hitting their original UIIs. Can anyone explain why I was able to get so many hits out of my original UII if they were using the same technology then as now? I prefer Combats and I get about 2-3 times as many hit from them as the Ultras. So obviously there is a better durability technology out there.
Feb. 15, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Thanks SLOBALL, but attacking me is just how the puppy rolls.

I think many guys are just in denial about their need for the special bats, and how much they help them. As I said, just like steriods and HGH, you do still have to do the work to get the benefits from them, but no doubt there are benefits to be gotten.
Feb. 15, 2011
hombre
Men's 60
220 posts
I'm not nearly as knowledgable about bats as most of the men who are posting on this site. However, I still am not convinced that bat manufacturers don't already have the technology to produce a more durable bat with the same performance.
To reiterate an earlier post, when I began playing senior ball in 2003, I bought an UII and used it exclusively for two and a half seasons. It had as much pop as any of the bats I've used since. I was playing about 200 games a season.
I've since broken five UIIs with around 300-350 hits. I know of a few guys who are still hitting their original UIIs. Can anyone explain why I was able to get so many hits out of my original UII if they were using the same technology then as now? I prefer Combats and I get about 2-3 times as many hit from them as the Ultras. So obviously there is a better durability technology out there.
Feb. 15, 2011
Omar Khayyam
984 posts
It seems saddlebrookrick and hombre are on to something. Many here have remarked that their U2s from 5 to 8 years ago lasted longer than more current U2s. I donít think their bat speed is increasing as they age! What was different about the earlier U2s? I have used my U2 for about 4000 swings for 7 years, and I have enough pop and bat speed to occasionally hit one out on a fence no farther than 300. Why is my bat lasting and lasting? Even if it is an anomaly, what is the difference and can bats still be made this way? If not, why not? Planned obsolescence?

I am also sympathetic to the point of view that Chinese manufacturing will take more short cuts than USA made. Even with American supervision. There are fewer consequences to cheating in China (no lawsuits and fewer fines).
Feb. 15, 2011
Marv19
Men's 60
429 posts
Guys It does no good to start throwing hand grenades. I'm just the messenger. If you don't like the message than thats OK. I'm just telling you what I know. I did not mention any one bat company so don't assume it's a particular one. Second when I was in automotive I dealt with manufacturing for nearly 30 years. I represented 15 factories at one time. I know wheels to ignition and most in between. To have a factory say that a 25% reject rate is the norm is unacceptable. In Automotive 3% and under were the targets. If a company can do it here and give the folks what they want then I will be a cheer leader for them. But knowing what I do know you wont get that from a country like China. As a Country they are growing too fast and skilled labor is becoming harder to find. Trust me a carbon fiber bat as thin as you guys want it will take more skill than an ASA bat for example. Senior bats are a lot less forgiving. Those guys over there don't care and its showing up every day. Wait until it warms up and you'll see. Hombre I think you'll find the answer to your question in my reply here. It wasn't the technology so much as it is and was the skilled labor that is harder to find. That coupled with there are more factories that do bats now and bat companies are going for price and or production or both. In the old days there were less factories and more skilled labor. Senior softball is a big deal. I have been told one company alone turns out 40,000 a year. Its like do the math!
Feb. 15, 2011
hitman
Men's 65
298 posts
There's no question that the old UII's lasted longer. I still have 5 of the original ones with the ASA stamps and one with without but it was the one right after the ASA ban with the smooth endcap.
I've only broken three in eight years and two of those were hitting when it was too cold. They took much longer to break-in but also much longer to fail. It's all about controls and it's just like car batteries, they just last the warranty period then they fail. In the bats case most designs are just lasting long enough so users don't complain, except right now everybody is complaining.

The Hitman
Feb. 15, 2011
Marv19
Men's 60
429 posts
They took longer to break in because they were probably thicker. Or the material used was different. Most people don't realize that the fiber comes in different configurations. Its the combination of the different fabrics and resins that create the bat. Because you say the break in period was different tells me the manufacturing was probably different. Its the demand of the players that dictates the market. Players want instant gratification. Just read the posts. "I hit my XX brand 350 feet with the plastic wrapper still on" This is what is fueling the flames. Bat companies hear this also.
Truth be known the Miken Freak has about a 300 to 500 hit break in period but its a pretty darn good bat after that. The next thing that will happen is the ASA will find some approved bats and test them after break in. Then we'd all be screwed :O)
Feb. 15, 2011
ju25
Men's 55
139 posts
Miken bats are made in Caledonia, MN.



Brad Augedahl

Account Manager

Miken Sports

toll free 877-807-5291 ext 115

fax 507-725-8296

baugedahl@mikensports.com



90% of the guys in my senior leagues swing an Ultra II. I get better distance with my UII, but prefer my Combats(Canada) because they fit my swing better. I've seen more Worths(Toxic&Launch)(China) break than any other Senior bat.
Feb. 15, 2011
Omar Khayyam
984 posts
Thanks, ju25, for the information and clarification. And Marv19's experience and knowledge of manufacturing also helped clarify things a bit.
Feb. 16, 2011
Marv19
Men's 60
429 posts
Another thing to remember Omar. Just because a product says made in the USA it only has to be assembled in the USA. End caps are installed and grips attached. All qualify for the made in the USA label. Why this is, is unknown to me. A good example of this is the MSD ignition. The product says Made in USA but the circuit boards are made in Mexico. The fancy casting is assembled with 4 screws in El Paso TX. You would be surprised at the amount of after market wheel manufacturers that use the outer rim made in Mexico. Or have all the polishing and chrome plating done across the border. How about American Racing. How american can you get but the name of the company :O)
Feb. 16, 2011
taits
Men's 65
4305 posts
You might want to add the knob label and graphics to the list.
Feb. 16, 2011
Marv19
Men's 60
429 posts
Good one Taits :O)
Feb. 16, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1953 posts
Everybody here is talking about keeping the same pop with a more durable bat. I broke my 6th U2 this weekend since the first of last year. There is more than one way to keep the 'senior pop' at the level it is. Tone the bats down to a level where they are much more durable and thicker, and increase the COR of the ball by a corresponding amount. Oh, sorry, too much $$$$$$ involved to think that way.
Since I have been on this board, I have started talking to more people about this issue at tourneys and I do feel the majority enjoy the senior bats and the offense these bats supply. But, until we, as CONSUMERS, stop buying these bats as they are, there will be no change in the durability.
Feb. 16, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Webbie, as usual you hit the nail on the head. "the majority enjoy the senior bats and the offense these bats supply". Because of this, guys will never stop buying the special bats.
Feb. 16, 2011
saddlebrookrick
55 posts
Gary 19 why are you so much against hrs lighten up and hit a few-- enjoy.
Feb. 16, 2011
crusher
Men's 70
388 posts
A Guess... For each 100 UII in play 95-97 players are extremly happy with them because they hit ground balls thru the infield, outfield gaps and if the OUTFIELDERS get to close "hey dude SHOW ME YOUR #"...as over their head it goes. These guys do not break bats. So basically they will still get produced. I know 30 or 40 guys with UII that can not even get a cracking sound when the ball is struck.
And, that is ok. have fun all.
Feb. 16, 2011
saddlebrookrick
55 posts
Gary 19 why are you so much against hrs lighten up and hit a few-- enjoy.
Feb. 17, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
I have nothing against home runs, actually think the game was more legit when there weren't limits. What I find amusing are the guys doing now, due to technology, what many weren't in their 20s and 30s. And actually feeling like they are accomplishing something. Sure the bat does not do all the work, but any honest old guy will tell you the special bats add a lot, or else why do so many insist on using them.

I have nothing against dunking either, but would not feel all that thrilled to only be able to dunk because of a trampoline under the basket. That is what hitting with the special bats does. That is why even the bat companies call it the 'trampoline effect' of the bats.
Feb. 17, 2011
saddlebrookrick
55 posts
Gary 19 in our senior league it's no big deal, the ones who hit homeruns are the same ones that did at age 20 or 30's. We may have one or 2 per game and sometimes none.We have a great time and there are 8 teams in our tues and friday leagues.Pitchers can use a screen if they want. All seem happy and that's what it's all about!
Feb. 17, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
I agree that if the guys are happy that is what counts. Though keep in mind the special bats do more than just produce home runs, but also allow guys to hit balls as hard or harder now than many were then they were much younger, That would be why the screen is needed.

But if those guys are having fun, cool!
Feb. 17, 2011
Omar Khayyam
984 posts
saddlebrookrick, if you will check the archives, you will find some discussions on the decline of senior softball, at least a decline in number of players despite a growing demographic where more and more men are eligible to play and are healthier and in better shape. Why are men dropping out of senior softball? We should have 30% more teams by now than we had in the year 2000. But we don't.

One reason may be that the introduction of the composite "senior" bats in the early 2000s changed the game. Offense was emphasized. Defense was diminished in importance (e.g., how does a great leftfielder defense a ball that sails 20 feet over the fence?).

And so guys who loved a balanced game, or were proud of their defensive skills even if they were so-so hitters, or could run like the wind but this is now less important, or are irritated that pipsqueaks like me can hit homeruns when we couldn't as younger men, or don't have the finances to keep buying $300 bats to compete, or even fear for their safety as a pitcher or infielder, have now left the sport except in rec leagues or pick-up games or clubs where composites are banned.

Some men may be playing because the composite bat boosts their ego (and it seems that the majority of current players like the hot bats), but they are more than offset by men who have dropped out, and so the sport is declining in popularity.
Feb. 17, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Omar, very well written.

Defense means so little anymore. Not only do the special bats take away defensive opportunities, but the run limit severely diminishes the need to play defense for more than one inning a game. Why get three outs when I can just give up five runs instead? Either way, yippee I get to go hit.
Feb. 17, 2011
stick8
1261 posts
Omar and Gary19--Bingo!! Omar, I will add that another reason for low participation is a down economy. Unless teams have full sponsorship and/or you live in an area where lots of tournaments are held it seems that it get's more and more expensive to travel out of town.
Gary19 in sports it's offense wins you games, defense wins you championships--except for senior softball. You could get your 5 every inning and if your opponent scores 1 more than you do in the open inning, you lose.
Feb. 17, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
stick, I don't understand why old guys don't seem to care about defense anymore. If all they want to do is hit, go start a HR Derby league and let the rest of us play the complete game.
Feb. 17, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1953 posts
This game does have to be 2 sided-you cannot win without good play on both sides in most games. We played extremely good defense this weekend and I feel that was the reason we won, just as much as the offensive side, We never let anyone get anything going, except R&R and they are hitting gods!! lol. The point is defense does still play a big part. It is just that you basically will not win with just a good defense. I was hurt for 6 months the end of last year and felt like a fish out of water only being able to hit and not play outfield. I love tracking a fly ball or throwing someone out. I really think most guys still feel that way.
Feb. 17, 2011
saddlebrookrick
55 posts
Omar I played asa ball for 3o years and the last 10 or 15 I noticed fewer and fewer younger guys coming up to play I think they choose to do other things and it has little to do with the bats and balls.
Feb. 17, 2011
Omar Khayyam
984 posts
saddlebrookrick, same thing is happening in my neck of the woods, except the young guys(35-49) are dropping out also since 2000 and the introduction of the composite bat (and the cheater bats by some younger guys). They have only found other things to do because softball has changed too much from the sport they loved and played for 25 years.

Our night leagues used to be full every night including Sunday with waiting lists and now there are dark fields some nights. Population is about the same, maybe up a few thousand. Still lots of under-50 age men. Unemployment has not hit very hard in our area so there is plenty of money. Not only happening here, but on the threads discussing this trend, it is evidently happening in other parts of the country.

I'm still playing softball, but not liking it as much because of the emphasis on offense (even though it made me a power hitter when I used to be a singles hitter). I won't likely quit. But lots of guys my age have dumped it over the radical changes brought in by the hot bats. And the worst effect, for the future of senior softball, is that many young men have tired of the slugfests and left the game to the heavy hitters. Maybe I'm wrong, but I haven't heard a better argument. We are killing the goose that laid the golden eggs.
Feb. 17, 2011
Rino
16 posts
Interesting thread. I play ISA open league, Senior league (48+)with no senior bats, and a 55+ winter league that allows senior bats. I used to play FL Half Century, but I gave up traveling. Defense plays a big part in all three leagues. The ball is hit harder and there's more home runs in the ISA league, but the young kids make some amazing plays. There's not much difference in the two senior leagues. Maybe a few more HRs with the senior bats. A lot of times the difference in winning or losing is one great defensive play to end an inning. I hate the five run innings in senior ball if my team is scoring them, but love to get off the field with only five runs if the other team is up. It does beat 3 inning run rule games in the ISA league.

I think a lot of the drop off in interest is due to lack of sponsors (and additional up front money for the players) and rising league fees. Some people have other priorities for their money. (Still way cheaper than golf though)
Feb. 17, 2011
stick8
1261 posts
I suppose a few reasons gary19. Some might include:
1)They might be so enamored with hitting that they forget about defense. Ever hear of anyone asking about "hot gloves" or complaining about "cheater gloves"? I never have.
2)The way the rules are for senior ball you don't necessarily have to play defense to win
3)They lose interest because as we age reactions slow down, throwing and movement slows down.
4)Some were't really defensive inclined in their youth. If they weren't defensive inclined in their youth there's no reason to think they'll be in senior ball
Feb. 18, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
stick, I can see all of that.

Though I have read a few guys on here asking about 15" gloves, which are illegal. I am guessing that might be the closest analogy to a 'hot' or 'cheater' glove.

I agree about the senior rules not really promoting defense, and that is one of my problems with the senior rules.

I understand many were probably not defensive inclined, though I know many who were not power inclined either who seem to have fallen in love with the special bats and the Miken power it now gives them.
Feb. 18, 2011
stick8
1261 posts
I've never heard of a manufacturer making a 15" glove?? I suppose there could be a substance out there that if one rubs in the pocket of their glove lends itself to a ball sticking (no pun) inside--sort of like when NFL receivers were loading up their hands with stickum back in the 80's--but I've never heard much about that happening in softball.
I guess Miken power lends itself to a false sense of security to some. If it makes them happy and it keeps them coming back to play more tournaments that's good for business. What gets me is some act like their some big time home run hitter when in reality they never were.
Feb. 18, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Sadly, the sport is now a business.

And sure it is a false sense of security, as it is a false sense of accomplishment. But not everyone recognizes that. Some old guys must have some really fragile egos.
Feb. 18, 2011
curveball
Men's 65
400 posts
It's not "the sport is now a business", it's Sports have become a business! Ask LaBron, ask Albert, times have changed, in Senior Softball, maybe not for the worst. Some enjoy the game a lot more than the days of primitive fields, poor gloves, and wood bats. Beer games just weren't that much fun. We now get to play nationally and meet a wonderful array of fellow ballplayers. I love playing against the best, not just the guys from the neighborhood................
Feb. 18, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Yea, but some sports were always a business. The NBA, NFL, and so on. Major college athletics. I suppose even Howards and Steeles. But 'regular' softball used to be put on primarily by recreation departments and local organizations, not national groups like SSUSAS and SPA.

There were always national tournaments, I used to go to Parma and watch as a kid literally every other year. Those were put on by the City of Parma, not a private organization.

Not sure how old you are, but when I started playing our gloves were as good as they are now. Our fields might have been better. And sure the bats are livelier, but we did not have so many whacky rules back then as a way to compensate for the equipment.
Feb. 18, 2011
Slammo
3 posts
This is my second year in the 50's but I have to tell you my first impression of the Senior league was surprise to see everybody using the hotest of bats with very little restriction. I would have thought it would have been just the opposite, and there would have been major bat restrictions and limited flight balls. I've enjoyed the heck out of playing in the league, but it scares the crap out of me whenever I see a guy take a line drive. We all know what we are getting into, and players get hurt no matter what equipment is used....but hot bats equal lumps and bumps to infielders!
Feb. 18, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Slammo, unfortunately they also seem to equal a lot of whacky rules to accommodate them.

But that is the tradeoff to accommodate guys who seem to need to do in their middle/old age what many weren't when they were young.
Feb. 18, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
webbie is got it,it does take some D to win or the vistors would never win or never be put out so games would never end.
i think the 5 run rule came about b/c of the non parity in senior ball,which there is in most of the kids ball,per say,E,D,C,B,etc and such.we have age and ability to figure into the equation.
yeah i don't care for the rule,but its there so i live with it.
slammo its the reason i champion using the 52-275 ball and that way the hero's can still use their hero bat,yes i use them to compete,but this ball will lesson the injury factor.i got hit last nov in my calf while on first running with a lefty batting and still have a sore spot there.
Feb. 18, 2011
Slammo
3 posts
Again I'm new at this, but the rules seem to change from tourament to tournament? So it would seem that the people who want to see safety limitations would be able to find tournaments that lean that way?? I play 1st base and had to learn (the hard way) to not get centered up on the hot bat grounders. Most everybody (that's been around)employs more of an O-lay swipe at it from the side to keep from being nailed. I've shattered two Miken bats so far and am considering switching back to low tech metal before I hurt somebody.
Feb. 18, 2011
saddlebrookrick
55 posts
We are off topic---Grey Dawg get ultra2 or reebok or gba and enjoy.
Feb. 18, 2011
Bomber23
47 posts
The brand new 2911 Veteran GBA bat is in stock and extremely durable. If you'd like info on where to buy one, email me at bxbombers@tampabay.rr.com
Feb. 19, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1953 posts
Stick8-Wilson made a glove called the Force 5 back quite a few years ago that was a 15" glove. I could not even control it, it was too big. I don't know if there is one now, though.

logan-just an observation---here is a thread about bats and it did not get hijacked by Einstein and garyc and a lot of guys got their 2 cents worth in. You say 'don't read' their posts. I can tell you there would have been almost nothing else to read but those 2.
Feb. 19, 2011
garyaz
40 posts
Due to the inconsistency of China we at GSC decided to have all our bats manufactured in the United States. Our Veteran Bat (Coachbuy.com) will be available in approximately 90 days. This is great news for the quality factor. Stay tuned for update information
Feb. 19, 2011
ju25
Men's 55
139 posts
Grey Dawg,
Sorry your thread got hijacked, like I said earlier Ultra II is the best bat out but some have durability problems. For me it's Combat not to far behind in distance and better durability. Whatever you choose remember to start out slow. First 25-50 swings 1/2-3/4 cuts rotating the bat with each swing, then about 25 swings at full force. Once you feel the bat is broken in game use only. Also watch what kind of balls you use, nothing higher than a 44/.375, and temps of 60 or above. My Combats are going into their 4th season and still look great, my UltraII is headed into it's 2nd season.
Hey stick8,
How you doing, I got cabin fever, can't wait to get back out to Rotary for some swings. So much for our spring tease, winter weather watch Sunday night into Monday morning. Although 15" gloves are illegal they still make them. Louisville has 2 out(Helix/Dynasty), Wilson has the AO360, Worth has the Mayhem, and Vinci pro makes one also.
Feb. 19, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1953 posts
OMG-hot gloves now!!!!
Grey Dawg-I think I am done with U2's. Can't afford them, having broken 6 since the first of last year. Temperature was a factor only in the one this year at the TOC. My Reebok has produced but I am still not comfortable with the way it swings. When it warms up I will use it steadily. PS Already have 7 or 8 HR's in competition with it this year. Good Luck!
Feb. 19, 2011
stick8
1261 posts
JU25, All good here Jimmy. Hope all is well with you. I'm right with you on that cabin fever. We'll definitely get out for swings when the weather cooperates. Naze called the other day and said our Monday night team is not playing this year. Lenny isn't sponsoring plus some of the guys are getting older. Oh well
Feb. 27, 2011
Grey Dawg
Men's 50
8 posts
Been out of the loop for a while thanks everyone for the advice. Have a 27 oz U2 on order, can not wait to hit.
Feb. 27, 2011
monts39
Men's 50
25 posts
where is the best place to buy a 34/26 end loaded melle from..
March 9, 2011
gott2play
Men's 55
138 posts
Monts, i've got a balanced 34/26 melee swung only once. if interested, ping me.

Tony Baltazar
#22 Barcelona Bandits
anthony.baltazar@boeing.com
March 9, 2011
garyheifner
349 posts
If ju25s post is correct that Mikens are
made in Mn and not China that kills the theory of poor manufacturing. It means something in the Fiber, formula etc has changed. When a team of 65-70+ year old guys break 5 new ones in one tourney or a guy snaps one in half on the 1st swing (as posted on this site) something is wrong. Miken has a captive audience with the senior tour, do they really want to blow it. Why not have great durability? The senior world will flock to you.
March 10, 2011
surf88
Men's 60
862 posts
Monts39: I have been getting bats out immediately of late. http://www.reebokmeleelegend.com
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