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Discussion: TIME LIMITS LIMIT ENJOYMENT

Posted Discussion
Feb. 27, 2011
DD
Men's 60
71 posts
TIME LIMITS LIMIT ENJOYMENT

With their December announcement that all 2011 seeding games would now go 65 minutes and bracket games 70 minutes, SSUSA/SSWC has responded to member concerns about time-limiting games. The results of the extensions remain to be seen and we hope that is enough to solve the problem.

In 2010, a totally unacceptable 52% of our games in SSUSA/SSWC tournaments were over in 6 innings or less. In the recent TOC in Florida, 4 of our 5 games ended after 6 innings, though some explained the TOC used 2010 time constraints and not the new extensions announced for 2011. I'm not so sure.

We want to encourage other managers to watch this closely and monitor their own game results. While SSUSA/SSWC represents the biggest provider of tournaments here in the western US, they are by no means the only alternative. SOCALSSA, NCSSA, SPA, and other groups offer tournaments for seniors. To my knowledge, only SPA guarantees ALL BRACKET GAMES TO GO 7 INNINGS...NO TIME LIMITS FOR BRACKET GAMES.

We will be watching this VERY closely and our team (Greco/AZ Hitmen) will not return to tournaments where organizers consistently end games before the completion of 7 innings. While we respect the intentions of time limits, we also believe they should be invoked less than 10% of the time.

While I commend SSUSA/SSWC for their response to our concerns, we reserve the right to evaluate the results after a representative sample of tournaments.

We also urge all tournament organizers to take the lead SPA has given you and figure out a way to guarantee 7 innings for your paying customers. If SPA can do it...so can you.
Feb. 27, 2011
Jawood
Men's 50
784 posts
Playing with a 1 and 1 count would have pretty much guaranteed 7 innings but adding the 5 extra minutes will definately help. I realize that not everyone likes a shorter count. Thanks for the stats on this, we will monitor our games this season and see how it goes.
Feb. 27, 2011
taits
Men's 65
4250 posts
1\1 takes form the real game. I understand the possibility of an extra inning but its not guaranteed.
Add 5-10 minutes to the game and you might get two more in if needed.
If the concern is for ump 'time' many don't get out to make the calls as they should so is that earning the per game fee. and if it is a per game fee, keep it that way, PER GAME. however long it ends up being, until you hit about 1 hour and a half average game time length.
Earn your perks that are sometimes included as well.
Feb. 28, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1931 posts
DD-this was discussed at length and the decision was made to add 5 minutes and monitor the situation as far as game how many innings are played. The jury is out on the 1/1, but it is not off the table for next year. The umpires are supposed to have an egg timer and the time starts 2 minutes after the flip, or meeting at the plate. If you have your team on the field ready to go when that 2 minutes expires, you get the whole time. I think when they monitor the innings, umpires should be told to monitor how fast teams get on the field, too. I know we have lost 3-5 minutes of game time this way at times. Guys, we have to help speed up the game a bit by being ready.
Note to my friend Gary19, the advocate of sprinting in and out from the outfield and adding MILES of running (2/3 of a mile per game figured at 250 feet each way per inning), I get in to the dugout before the other team is set on the field, so what is the big deal about running at our ages?
Feb. 28, 2011
garyheifner
334 posts
If you have seen my posts over the last 3-4 years, I am a strong supporter of the 1-1 count. The entire tempo of the game is much higher with the 1-1 count. I have made this issue a point of interest for me. We played in 11 tournaments last year. I asked every pitcher (opponents) if they liked the 0-0 or 1-1. "2" said it didn't matter, all the rest prefered the 1-1. Especially in 7-8 or more game tournaments.
Feb. 28, 2011
wagon487
Men's 50
506 posts
1 and 1 would be fine, just make sure you get a extra foul. For example, first pitch is a strike, you can foul off the next pitch and not be out. Next foul or strike, your out!
Feb. 28, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Gary, a good pitcher will maintain the proper tempo to the game as it should be, not through some contrived rule.

Webbie, I don't believe I EVER said 'sprint' on and off the field. But for God's sake, NO walking.

And perhaps the other team would get ready for the next inning sooner if they did not know they have time because you and others are going to walk off. Why hurry if you have to wait for the other team to straggle off?

It might be you setting the slow pace, and not following it like you are thinking. Just give that a thought.

Guys, if we don't shoot ourselves in the foot with a maddingly slow pace of play we can get in 7 innings without worrying aobut contrived things like time limits and 1-1 counts.
Feb. 28, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
By the way, I do realize that the protocol for getting on and off the field probably should be different for 70s than for 50s. I understand that.

But we should all do our part to keep some pace to the game, and not slow it down at every turn and then complain we cannot get in 7 innings.
Feb. 28, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1931 posts
Gary,I do think about whether I am delaying a game, and if they are even close to being out there I will jog off. You have never seen me play. I do not slow down a game. But, I also realize my running in does not SPEED UP a game, so I walk in at a good pace. With these bats there are innings or games that you can be extremely active chasing several balls an inning in left center. I also run the bases a lot, rarely stopping at first on a single or taking 3 on 'tweeners' when possible. I used to jog or run in, but realized it was a useless waste of energy I might need in the 7th, 8th or 9th games, especially of an active tournament----and I ALWAYS EXPECT TO PLAY THAT FAR INTO A TOURNAMENT. If you read my entire statement above, you would realize I also made those points about being ready to play.
Wagon-I agree with the courtesy foul-I would fight the 1/1 without it, but I have liked it since we first played it in the 80's. It gets batters more aggressive and hitting pitches earlier in the count. It is a hitters game--swing the bat.
Feb. 28, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Webbie, I realize that your jogging on and off alone would not affect the pace of the game. But if EVERYONE did that, as the game should be played, then it certainly would.

I think when each guy just sees the others mosey on and off it becomes contagious. I would like to think that if enough guys took it upon themselves to get on and off at the correct pace it might affect the others and the entire game would be better off for it.

Also, good pitching will get guys to be aggresive and swing the bat without the need for a contrived rule.
Feb. 28, 2011
Corky
Men's 55
444 posts
Just some food for thought (pool games only)and please don't string me up for a simple suggestion. Most umpires are paid on a per game basis and most parks here play 4 to 5 games per night per diamond...with that said and the discussion about how the senior games tend to run over the time limit, the senior Org. here went to 2 innings on offense and 2 innings on defense until the 7 and it was played as an open inning as usual. Being a purist like Gary I didn't think I would like it but it seeems to work pretty well. First team up, gets 5 runs or 3 outs, whichever comes first. Then they clear the bases and do it again. When the 7th comes around its all you can get. It allowed us to stay away from the one and one count and most games got 7 innings played on time. All it does is eliminate 3 transitions (on and off the field)per game. What ya think
Feb. 28, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3919 posts
corky don't think that will fly for tourney's,tho a decent idea.i like the 1-1 count with 1 foul.for the hustler's comment,do it yourself(running in and out from the OF) before condemning someone else.it can be upwards of a mile for a game for the OF'er leaving the oppo dugout(1b side to left,3b side to right)even if only 3 games,that an extra 3 miles for the day along with chasing down balls.it seems its the pitchers who are always telling their OF'ers to hustle in and out.
Feb. 28, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
I know we are all older, and I did make a comment conceding that 70s cannot be treated like 50s. But when did walking between the lines become acceptable? Sprinting? Never said that. But walking? C'mon now.

You guys want special bats, but complain when they break. You want 7 innings, but complain that you might have to show at least a bit of hustle to get the innings in. Anyone ever tell you having your cake and eating it too is not often possible?
Feb. 28, 2011
Airbosn
Men's 65
319 posts
When umpires begin to bitch I remind them that they get paid for rainouts (if they are at the park)and run rule games, and my final statement...I don't issue 1099's...
Feb. 28, 2011
Omar Khayyam
958 posts
Corky, I play double innings all the time in league play. It really speeds up the game. No clearing the field after one inning. No warm ups for pitcher between those innings. Next guy up already on deck after last out of previous inning. No more infield warmup. All of these factors are big time savers over 7 innings.

Changes the rhythm a bit, and takes awhile for a team not to get psyched out when the other team puts up 8 or 10 runs on them and they haven't got their ups yet. But they soon realize they have a double inning to catch up and the psychological advantage disappears.

Don't see why it couldn't work for tournaments except for objection of traditionalists who usually resist any change at first.
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