http://seniorsoftball.com/?page=12

 
SIGN IN:   Password     »Sign up

Message board   »Message Board home    »Sign-in or register to get started

Online now: 1 member: Libra21; 22 anonymous
Change topic:

Discussion: marking batter's box

Posted Discussion
April 13, 2011
melkapule
Men's 60
7 posts
marking batter's box
I was called out for stepping outside of the batter's box and contacting the ball. At my next at bat I asked the umpire where the forward corner towards first base was.
After waiting a few seconds, with no umpire reply, I bent forward and made a 2" x 3" mark and asked if that was where the corner was.
I was called out for marking the batter's box. I have searched the 2010 rule book and could not find a rule covering this though I did find a rule that covered intentionally destroying the lines.
Can anyone help me understand this?
April 13, 2011
taits
Men's 65
4359 posts
Rule 7.3 and 7.3(1)
Should be in i.5 but its is worded differently or something.
April 13, 2011
garyheifner
360 posts
You were called out because the ump didn't want to be up staged. An ump with a brain would have drawn a line for you to see to avoid an argument later. I believe if you see the batter box diagrams, the front of a box should extend 4 feet beyond the approx mid line of home plate. We had a guy called out with his foot a little over 1 1/2 feet in front of the plate. I showed the ump the diagram and he said it was correct but the rule/diagram was no good for this or any game he worked. For me it was just another instance of an ump who really didn't take senior ball seriously and acted like he didn't want to be there. We had tournaments last year that the umpiring was professional and outstanding. Some, it stunk. I hope the TDs always let the umps know we spend a lot of $$$ to attend these things and the games are important to us.
April 14, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Gary, the umps sound a lot like the players. Some are very good, and some stink. RARELY does an umpire cost a team a game, the players do.

That is not an excuse for an ump with a bad attitude, though in my 38 years of playing I have seen many more players with bad attitudes toward umpires than vice versa.
April 14, 2011
cal50
Men's 50
276 posts
I ran across 2 umpires like that in Florida last weekend. Instead of calling the game, they want attention called to themselves.
April 14, 2011
stick8
1282 posts
PUTTING ON PLAYERS CAP: As a player I feel the best umpires are the ones who hustle and "stay in the background" and do not draw attention to themselves. It's almost like their not even there.
PLAYER CAP OFF, UMPIRE CAP ON: As an umpire I don't decide the game, I let the players do that.
April 14, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
And the players usually do decide it, stick. Problem is when the 'decision' does not go their way too many need someone to blame instead of manning up and accepting responsibility.
April 14, 2011
stick8
1282 posts
Exactly Gary19. It was the umps fault that the shortstop booted 4 balls letting in 5 runs. It was the umps fault that the left center fielder let a ball get by him with the bases loaded. It was the umps fault that three different times batters couldn't get the 2 out hit with the bases loaded.
April 14, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Sounds like you have watched and heard the same guys I have. :)
April 14, 2011
stick8
1282 posts
Yep, and their all over the country. One wouldn't think so but some seniors can be some of the biggest whiners of 'em all.
April 14, 2011
Joncon
289 posts
There is probably more to the story.

I am assuming you were still pissed at the first call and were being a bit of a dick on your next at bat.


It doesn't generally pay to be confrontational, especially toward an umpire.

You could have simply been friendly with the ump and let him know that you didn't want to repeat your mistake from last inning.

Also, if you made any reference to his carnal knowledge of his mother or any reference to his sexual orientation, that would be the time to aplogize.

THEN you could have drawn a line 6" in and from the edge and 30" in front of the center of the plate and asked him if that looked about right.
April 14, 2011
melkapule
Men's 60
7 posts
I am grateful for your replies.
After being called out outside the batter's box I retired to the dugout. That was a judgment call so I left it alone.
Being called out for marking the box does not sit right.
As Joncon mentions, I did mark the ground with an upside down "L" where I thought the corner was. Making the mark was the reason for my being called out the second time.
I would like to find out if my marking the ground was reason to be called out.
April 15, 2011
Norq44
58 posts
Another florida umpire with attitude! Two weeks ago I'm playing in a FHC tournament, hitting third in the line-up. This is the first inning of the game, we are visitor. Lead off hits a single, second batter hits a triple. I step into the batter's box to hit. The opposing first baseman says the runner missed first. The field umpire walks over to first base, the first base coach walks out on the field,and the three of them are standing with their backs to home plate. I am now standing in the batter's box using my bat as a cane, watching to see where this conference is going. The pitcher proceeds to throw a pitch, that lands squarely in the middle of the plate, the home plate umpire, instead of saying no pitch, because time was called, says "strike two" (we are playing with the one and one count). I turn and look at him. I asked him if he was aware of the fact that there were THREE people standing at first base with their backs to the plate. I said, "what would you have said had I swung at that pitch and hit your fellow umpire in the back of the head"? His comment was very belligerent, and was something like "You would have found out".By now I am incredulous. I said, "you've got to be kidding me, time was out". He says, "play ball". The next pitch is high, inside, about 3 inches off the matt, also about three inches deep. You guessed it. Strike three! He rings me up with great fanfare, and a big smirk on his face. I was supposed to be pitching this game, I had to take myself out of the field, I wasn't sure I would ever get a strike called by this umpire. Between games the field umpire thanked me for not putting the ball in play during the first base conference. I didn't bother to tell him that I can't hit to right! But this is just another example of an umpire who considers himself to be the center of the game.
April 15, 2011
mc3157
Men's 50
1 posts
Having been a certified ASA and NSA umpire, there is no specific rule that addresses a player marking the batter's box. Based on the info you have provided, you were called out for upstaging the ump which most umpires would take as a sign of disrespect. Sounds to me like that particular ump was not real easy to get along with. I have learned that no matter how I feel about a call when I am playing, it's up to me to adjust to that particular umpire that day and play accordingly. At this point in time, I would just let it go and move on. It's not worth worrying about now as the past can't be changed.
April 15, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
norq, was the home plate ump wrong? Sounds that way.

Could you have said what you did to him in a better way? Absolutely!

NO need to go with the "what if I hit the ump in the head" card! Why single out his partner? Truth is, you potentially could have hit any one of the three of them, or probably a number of infielders who might have been looking at the conference instead of the ball.

Players have to take accountability for their parts in problems with umps. Most of these are not one-way streets.
April 15, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
mc, 1000% correct.

Again, players win and lose games. RARELY the umps.
April 15, 2011
stick8
1282 posts
Norq44, how on earth could that home plate umpire not know there was an appeal play that had not been ruled on?
April 15, 2011
GSWP001
Men's 60
74 posts
This is all very interesting and I'm sure we all have our stories. I wonder though. Does SSUSA look at these posts and actually act on player info. I know not specifically but at least in the background. I certainly don't see any input from staff on this subject.
April 15, 2011
garyheifner
360 posts
hey norq:

That has to rank right at the top, along with 1 or 2 other examples of arrogance by an ump that I have heard of in my 47 years of mens softball.
April 15, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Yea cause after all are umps are sooooo much more arrogant than the players, too many of whom are in their 50 and 60s and still don't know the Infield Fly rule.
April 16, 2011
Norq44
58 posts
Gary,
You are probably the biggest reason that I don't post to this board very often. On more than one occasion you have managed to raise my blood pressure with your comments.
I will answer your questions:
In my opinion, the umpire was definitely wrong. And he didn't make matters any better by ringing me up on the next pitch.
Could I have spoken to him in a different manner? Definitely, I could have been a lot worse than I was. You had to have been there.
As far as singling out his partner, I wasn't singling anyone out, that's just what came out of my mouth at the time. The truth is there is no way I would ever have hurt anyone on the right side of the field. I can't hit there.
As far as players having to take accountability for their roles in these problems, I'm sure that your statement is accurate some of the time, but I don't think senior softball players are going out of their way to instigate arguments with umpires. The reality is there are guys out there who should not be umpiring. There are some really good men and women umpiring, and there are some who are just there for the money.
April 16, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
It sounds like holding a mirror up to you and other whining seniors might have been a bit too much.

You could have been a lot worse. How absurd and childish, doesn't matter how old you are. You just won't see yourself and what you (a) did to further incite the situtaion and (b) what you could have done differently to difuse the situation. That is a shame.

What came out of your mouth WAS singling out his partner! You really don't see that?

And 'some of the time' is more like most of the time. Yes, there are guys who should not be umping and are doing it for the money, no question. As there are players who don't play very well but just don't see themselves that way so look for the umps as a convenient excuse for their own shortcomings.

Umps don't lose games, players do.
April 16, 2011
Norq44
58 posts
Over and out!
April 16, 2011
stick8
1282 posts
Norq putting on my umpire cap here if I was the home plate ump in this game I would have waited for a call to be made by the first base umpire before resuming play. Since their was an ensuing "meeting" at first after the appeal I would have waited a few seconds and then walked over to first to find out what the discussion was and quickly resolve it--either safe or out and then resume play.
Putting on my player cap if it was me batting in that situation I would have stepped totally out of the box upon the appeal being made and waited for the home plate ump to say "play ball". Then I'd step in and bat. I wouldn't have said a word. If the 3 people at first still had their back to the play in a discussion, oh well. If one of them gets hit that's on the home plate ump because he's the one who deemed "play ball".
You may not realize it but you did single out the base umpire and I suspect that's why the home plate ump copped an atttiude toward you.
You may have already done so but if not you can inform the tournament director or a umpire in chief on what happened.


April 16, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
So sorry about that mirror Norq, but clearly you don't want help.

stick, I think there is quite a bit about how he mishandled that situation that he doesn't realize. Or just doesn't want to.
April 16, 2011
stick8
1282 posts
Possibly so Gary. From an umpire perspective it's hard for me to fathom an umpire would resume a game when the appeal play hadn't been ruled on and the field ump and 2 guys were on the field discussing it. I certainly don't wish to challenge Norq's description of the play but I'd almost have to see it to believe it.
April 16, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Instead of being a smart-a$$ about it all he had to do was ask the home plate ump to verify with the base ump that time had been called. Or ask the base ump himself. Either of those is much better than running his mouth about the guy's partner getting hit.

I am amazed at guys this age who just don't know the etiquette of the game.
April 16, 2011
RIK56
Men's 50
120 posts
another great post from gary,again i"m enjoying the show.
April 16, 2011
Pitcherman
Men's 50
40 posts
Norq44, it's the same crap here from a very, very small percentage of people who have a desperate need for attention, exhibited by their negative responses in just about EVERY post they make. Their goal certainly appears to be intentionally antagonistic and controversial to make themselves the center of attention here which is likely the only place in their life that they can achieve that. Please don't stop posting because of them, post in spite of them
April 16, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Yes sir, pointing out the obvious is certainly the equivalent of being intentionally antagonistic and controversial. LOL

And bringing up to one ump the notion of hitting his partner in the back of the head sure wouldn't antagonize anyone.

How can you guys be that old yet that oblivious to how the game should be played?
April 16, 2011
RIK56
Men's 50
120 posts
how was he intentionally antagonistic and controversial you have to be kidding me,that ump should never be allowed to do any games in any sport at any level,i thought norq44 handled it well,he didnt lose his cool,lots of players would have.most of the umpires we have are very good,they umpire the game and dont try to control it.go back to your water polo league gary.
April 17, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Gee, I don't know Rich. How about this comment "what would you have said had I swung at that pitch and hit your fellow umpire in the back of the head?"? AS I SAID ABOVE there was no need to comment on his partner like that. NONE! AS I SAIDE ABOVE he could have hit any number of people, so why bait the ump by just using his partner as the example?

And why not simply ask him to check with his partner to confirm that time was out? Or ask his partner himself? Or have your coach who is standing right by the base ump?

So many better ways than to make a silly comment refering to hitting his partner in the head. So many......

April 17, 2011
RIK56
Men's 50
120 posts
Gary,i agree he could have stepped back and asked for time,i just dont see where he was antagonistic and controversial,all he did was put out a what if,maybe he was thinking of the safety issue here.if the ump missed the time out then he could have just said oh crap didnt see time was out no pitch.
April 17, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
well so far these umps are like g-19,attention seekers,its my way only and don't question me.
by the way what senior team do you play for gary-19,b/c so far the 2 teams from ohio that i have spoken with(that are near you) don't want anything to do with you,is this why your like a little child here on this board.
April 17, 2011
curveball
Men's 65
400 posts
mad dog must be a carpenter! Hits nail on the head.
April 17, 2011
stick8
1282 posts
RIK56 you might be right by saying that ump shouldn't be umping tournament games but that doesn't entitle players to act in a condescending manner toward them. As bad as some umpires might be they are not second class citizens.
April 17, 2011
RIK56
Men's 50
120 posts
stick i agree with that,i seldom say anything negetive to an umpire,about the only time i do is when they call my 15 foot pitch high.all i ask is umpire the game, try to get in postion to make the call.you dont see it alot but i have seen it,umpires who clearly act like they dont want to be there now that upsets me slightly.you guys going to indy again this year.
April 17, 2011
stick8
1282 posts
RIK56, Yes we'll be in Indy. I presume your team is???
April 17, 2011
Pitcherman
Men's 50
40 posts
Rik56, my comment was not addressed to Norq44 at all except to ask him to continue posting in spite of the one that is always trying to stir up trouble here. I think most people know who that individual is including him, especially as he was the first to respond to my comments.
April 17, 2011
RIK56
Men's 50
120 posts
Pitcherman,yours was a good post,i knew you were talking about that person.stick yes we will be in indy,its one of my favorite tournments.i think it will be a good tournment this year,hopefully the weather will hold up.
April 17, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Yes sir, the guy who points out how absurd it is for old men to whine about the umps and how ridiculous it is that old men don't seem to have a clue how to handle a situation with an umpire is the one who is stirring up trouble.

Interesting. Amusing, and interesting.
April 17, 2011
stick8
1282 posts
RIK56 who do you play for?
April 17, 2011
RIK56
Men's 50
120 posts
the first 4 years i pitched for coors light,now i"m going on my second year with 50 caliber out of st.louis.
April 18, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
well rik at least you answered who you play for(by the way from what i hear they are a pretty good team),now what about this g-19 character,who do you play for,and before a preempted strike ,i play for the dallas spurs 60's.
April 18, 2011
stick8
1282 posts
Ah yes I rememeber you RIK56. You certainly did throw that 15 ft arc!! Is 50 caliber major+, major?
April 18, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
puppy, no need for a "preemptive (that's okay, you might get that right sometime) strike". You are the one with the history of avoiding direct questions.

Not playing travel with anyone this year. Just playing in three leagues around here.

RIK, why would a correctly called "illegal" on a 15' pitch get you to say something negative about the ump?
April 18, 2011
RIK56
Men's 50
120 posts
Stick 50 cal is major,coors is also back to major,i think your team is major+,windy city probally will be at indy,that might be the only 2 50 major plus teams there.


gary i was joking lol.
April 18, 2011
stick8
1282 posts
Yes we, OKI, are 50 major plus. I had heard WC petitioned to go back to major. Perhaps they were turned down? Either way they'll put us in against some major teams in the prelims.
April 18, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
Gotcha!
Sign-in to reply or add to a discussion or post your own message and start a new discussion. If you don't have a message board account, please register for a free nickname. It will only take a moment.
Senior Softball-USA
Phone: (916) 326-5303
Fax: (916) 326-5304
2701 K Street, Suite 101A
Sacramento, CA 95816
Send us e-mail
Senior Softball-USA is dedicated to informing and uniting the Senior Softball Players of America and the World. Senior Softball-USA sanctions tournaments and championships, registers players, writes the rulebook, publishes Senior Softball-USA News, hosts International Softball Tours and promotes Senior Softball throughout the world. More than 1.5 million men and women over 40 play Senior Softball in the United States today. »SSUSA History  »Privacy policy

Follow us on Facebook

Partners