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Discussion: 40+ teams in a senior qualifier?

Posted Discussion
April 18, 2011
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2665 posts
40+ teams in a senior qualifier?
This past weekend we hosted a tournament here in Georgia. A 40 and over team was allowed to enter, playing 50+ teams in the round robin games and then played in the 50 platinum division. After they beat us in our first double elem game I was "upset" that they were playing in our division. After some thought I decided it was a good thing that additional teams are brought into our tournament, even though they were younger.
Two weeks ago nearly the same thing happened in Myrtle Beach, except I and 4 others from our 50 team played with most of this 40 team. That time I believe the 40 team couldn't win the DE games. This past weekend they could, finishing second to Tri-State. In both tournaments the only restriction on the 40's was that they had to use utrip bats. Was this enough equalizer? I think so. (I am confident that their bats were leagal.)
Does SSUSA allow this integration? btw, ours was an SPA qualifier.
What are your thoughts?
I welcome the additional teams, just not sure if any addtional equalizers are needed.
April 18, 2011
tg69
309 posts
Bruce,I,myself love copetition but 40 yr. olds against 50-55 yr olds is a pretty wide gap.Hot senior bats cant override younger legs and speed.We had a 35 older team that won the 35older state that could beat a lot of the C teams we played that were young kids so again I think to big of a gap to be fair.BUT I do like the idea of getting the 40s interested in senior ball,
April 18, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
not a bad idea,but 40's against 50's and over ,yes a little to much,but like it that they had to hit utip bats so maybe that would be a decent equalizer.
bruce with the 40's having to use an utrip bat i think is a lot better than allowing them to use senior bats,do you remember how good you could hit in your 40's,yeah i know it was eons ago,but i think you can still remember...LOL if i had,had a senior back in my 40's,oh my.....
April 18, 2011
thndr1
Men's 50
29 posts
SSUSA does allow this to happen in some of its tournaments.

There is one thing I would recommend when this takes place. Give the younger team an extra round robin game and have them play single elim only in the bracket play. That way, if one of the older teams does manage to beat them, they can't drop down to the loser's bracket and start sending a bunch of older teams home. If they lose in the winners bracket they are done in the tournament.

Cliff
April 18, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
cliff sounds ok to the older teams,but do you think the 40's would like it,prolly not,but hey anyway to get them some tourney action i guess....
April 18, 2011
Omar Khayyam
999 posts
It's not just about the bats, guys, and we know it. When a 55 team, even a major+, plays a 40 team, here are some of the edges that the younger team has:

Faster runners, on base and in the field.
Stronger arms, infield and outfield.
Quicker reflexes, especially important in infield.
Better eyesight, giving them extra advantage at dusk and under the lights.
More stamina and less likely to be overweight. Important on three game days, or in hot weather, or in coming out of the losers' bracket.
Faster recuperation for the second (and third) day of a tournament.

Those advantages mean that more of a handicap than just non-senior bats should be given. Just my opinion as an old geezer.
April 19, 2011
thndr1
Men's 50
29 posts
Mad dog, this situation has come up in all of the last three tournaments we have played in. Having a Major plus team or a younger team step into our division to play. They usually aren't allowed to play for the championship but only allowed to get their games in. The tournament in Mesquite, Navarenno electric, a major plus team from SoCal, was allowed to play with the major and AAA teams. Not only did they lose to Rapid Erectors, they dropped into the loser's bracket and beat us to send us home. Whether I's whining or not, I don't like that to happen. If your going to let the younger guys (or the higher level teams) play in our division in a tournament, they shouldn't be able to send home the legit teams from a division.

Omar, I agree about the bat restriction not being enough. Half of my team still swing their U-Trip bats. Some of my guys say the senior bats add to much flight to their hits turning them into routine outs instead of the line drives they usually hit with their U-Trip gear.

Cliff
April 19, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
understand thndr 1,wonder if those teams could just play their own elim round.we have been playing major and major + teams(we are AAA) in the seeding round with them going to their own elim bracket,while we did our own.just not enough teams in the upper divs i guess all over the country,but they shouldn't be allowed to infringe on the lower div's for elim rounds.
April 19, 2011
kreugs
9 posts
We played the 50s this weekend and we are a 40 team and we had to give the other team the choice of 11 players in the field or give up 5 runs.the 50 team got there choice on homeruns also.It seemed to be pretty fair but i think we could have used u trip bats and it would have made it a little more even.Most every game never made it to the 7th inning because of time.Basically your giving the 50s 1 run a inning in the ssusa 5 run rule.
April 20, 2011
Jawood
Men's 50
798 posts
40+ is a huge age gap to be playing against 50+ teams, regardless if they are Major-plus or not. Omar described the advantages. But if they are going to have a division, they deserve a place to play. There are usually not enough teams for them to play on their own so they have to play with the 50's. 40+ teams should not be able to use senior bats against 50+ teams and any time they play a division up, they should have to hit against an 11 man defense.

Making the 40+ division into a 45+ division would also help bridge the gap as the majority of 40-44 year olds are still playing regular ball.
April 22, 2011
elpbadboys
9 posts
why concentrate on 40 yr olds...that's not SENIOR softball....if tournaments and leagues concentrated on better fields, better run tournys, better tournament prizes we would have more SENIOR players interested and wouldn't need 40 yr olds to "fill up" slots....think about it
April 22, 2011
Jawood
Men's 50
798 posts
Not CONCENTRATE on the 40 year olds, but if SSUSA is going to offer, they should run it the correct way. If you want teams to "fill up" the slots in SENIOR softball, don't have as many divisions and age groups, then we will have enough teams to play.
April 22, 2011
leftyodoul
Men's 60
99 posts
Jawood - Seeing that one 40+ guy hit that rocket over you to the fence was enough to convince me that I (a 55+ player) didn't want any part of the 40's. Did he Pee on that or what?!
April 23, 2011
Jawood
Men's 50
798 posts
You are correct ... actually more than one guy! They only had about half of their best players there! HUGE gap in all aspects of the game between the 40's to the 50's and above.
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