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Discussion: Aluminum

Posted Discussion
May 25, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Aluminum
Would the number of players in senior softball drop or increase if all composite bats were banned?
May 25, 2011
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
DROP.............
May 25, 2011
Omar Khayyam
999 posts
Increase. We have lost thousands of senior players since the introduction of composites. Lots of them would return if the game were more balanced (the game they grew up with!). Bring back defense, strategy, base running, hitting for average and a lot of senior players I once knew would return to the game they loved but have since deserted. Unfortunately for the future of softball, lots of younger players have gotten disgusted with altered bats and the focus on the long ball and they have dropped out as well. These should be the glory days of senior softball with hundreds more teams as better health, nutrition, and fitness have kept our 60+ guys more capable of playing at a satisfying level. Where are they?
May 25, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
There are three senior leagues that I know of around here. The 45+ league in Akron has 8 teams, and their 50+ division has 7. A 50+ league in Maple Heights has 5 teams. Both use senior bats.

The 50+ league in Mayfield Village has 9 teams, with no senior bats.

Just some data from Northeast Ohio.
May 25, 2011
RedEye
Men's 60
92 posts
Dayton has 8 teams (50-63) & 8 teams (63+).
1.20 bats. SW Ohio.
May 25, 2011
Enviro-Vac
Men's 60
399 posts
It would make no difference to me (depending on the ball. A mush ball & metal bat is not great.

In about 2000 SSUSA used metal bats and if I remember correctly, 47/525 balls. As much fun as the Senior bats are, metal bats with 47/525 balls was more fun as it allowed for a little more "D" and the balls still flew. I still play in a metal bat league and enjoy it.
May 25, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Is this really softball? Remember when the only worries you had playing ball was a pulled muscle. No it's a game of survivial. Crushed bones or even death. When did this start?
May 25, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Is this really softball? Remember when the only worries you had playing ball was a pulled muscle. No it's a game of survivial. Crushed bones or even death. When did this start?
May 25, 2011
softball4b
Men's 60
756 posts
I would love it. Then, us big fat guys that hit pretty well would be more in demand.

Infielders could open their eyes and actually see the balls they are catching. Outfielders could run down balls in the gap.

Wait though, I would hit into more double plays, never mind...Composites RULE.


May 25, 2011
canIjack
Men's 60
322 posts
Good question.....I would say that Senior Softball would still grow or increase. Because of the Medical advances in the field of health. Which is allowing us Senior's the ability to play a few years longer. We can use Aluminum just like before.... just use a descent hard ball. People STOP playing the game because of Physical issues and Not equipment Issues. The Great Game of Softball will survive and take on new technology, The Metal era is GONE, just accept it.

AS Time goes on, everything changes, Why are we trying to stop Time, and live in the Pass? Is that all we have or want, is Old bats and old balls? not me!.... Just an old guys opinon who learn to hit with a homemade ball & a broken boomstick.
May 25, 2011
canIjack
Men's 60
322 posts
And I anit going back to swinging Broomsticks.
May 25, 2011
canIjack
Men's 60
322 posts
Hey Mike, I came back Sunday, never did hit one as far as you did on that Hill, Nice Blast. We'll see the next we meet, it was nice to see you again, tell Dawn Hi,
May 25, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
pricer looks like your getting your answer.everyone here but 1 feels they would still play the game,so i guess there would be no drop.i do know i would still play if we went back to metal bats.

jimmy you are so right,bring back a more balanced game..

mike,kenard you both could hit with broom sticks without a drop off.......
May 25, 2011
Omar Khayyam
999 posts
canljack, wish I could agree with you. I, too, thought that with all the medical advances, we would see a great increase in the number of senior players, particularly as more and more 60+ and 70+ teams would be formed from now fit senior players. But it isn't happening. In northern California, the area I have statistics for, despite the population increase in the last ten years and healthier players (don't we all know guys playing well with artificial knees? hips?), the number of teams has remained stagnant over the decade.

Why? When I ask guys I played with ten years ago in tournaments, some of whom are still fit and active in day league, their answers, though varied, point to the introduction of the senior bats in the early years of the century. They no longer play tournaments and complain about "home run derby", "can't keep up with the speed of the ball in the infield", "too dangerous to pitch (or play 3rd)", "too tiring to run around the huge outfields [made necessary by pushing the fences back on new fields to accommodate the hot senior bats]", etc. All of these answers come around to the combination of current hot balls and senior composite bats.

I think mad dog might be on the right track pumping for his less lively ball. Guys could keep their expensive composites, the game would be safer, defense would be more possible, home runs would be hit by home run hitters not pipsqueaks like me, etc. Or even simpler, return to the pre-composite bats, but that seems unlikely.
May 25, 2011
DCPete
234 posts
No point in asking a question about a scenario that will NEVER happen . . .
May 25, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
dcpete,why not ask,there are a multitude of leagues around the country that only allow metal bats and they are thriving,so why not ask the questions of seniors,oh by the way some of these leagues are senior ones.
May 26, 2011
DCPete
234 posts
MD; wasn't really talking about the metal bats, it's the 47/525 balls that will NEVER be used again. (sorry for the confusion) But now that some leagues have gone to the 52/275 ball as a safety precaution, no one will ever authorize the use of the old 47/525 ball again, regardless of what bats are being used.
Going back to the older and harder ball would just look like a lawsuit waiting to happen . . .
May 26, 2011
FOFO
Men's 50
171 posts
It would make no difference to ball players who have played the game for the love of it all along. If we lost the guys that only play because hot bats allow them to hit the ball over the fence I think the game would improve as they are playing for the wrong reason in the first place
May 26, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
ah got cha pete.yeah finding 47 balls is almost impossible,tho if ya go to ebay they can be found.one of my flat belly league i play in has gone to the 52 ball and so far no complaints,its play on as usual.there is no whining about how we can't have fun or anything like that.we have basically an any bat rule,except senior bats.ASA is looking into going back to their old bat rule if a test they are doing shows the 52 ball doesn't come off any bat hotter than the 98 mph they want.as i see it this ball,will be the ball of the future b/c of the law suits that have been done already,insurance companies don't want to pay out that money,nor do city parks and recs,and any other assoc's.
May 26, 2011
stick8
1298 posts
Mad Dog there are wood bat leagues and wood bat tournaments that are very popular. If it ever came down to that or aluminum in senior ball the game would still be a big draw. No dopubt it would be an adjustment but isn't making adjustments what makes players become better?
May 26, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
stick you are so right,i have played in a couple of wood bat tourneys when i lived in cali(not so much here in texas,not many to be found if any) and it was great.there is a guy in socal who throws a couple every year and i would play in them,he gave out tee shirts to every one who hit their first hr in the tourney that said,"real men do it with wood".he also threw metal bat tourneys ,where he supplied some old school bats,guess what,he never had a prol filling up these tourney's.
May 26, 2011
canIjack
Men's 60
322 posts
Omar, again you are correct. I would think that there should be an increase but There has been a drop off of Senior Teams as the age goes up. I feel that when a senior player goes out for a injury or operation and has to rehab for 6 months to a year . He almost nevers comes back, he retires for health and not equipment reasons.

mad dog your right, no matter what Mike and I swing, We are going to try and tear the cover off the ball.Mike will still GRUNT when he hits it...YYAAAKKAAAAAahahahaaaa and it goes 250 feet. OLO.
May 26, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
oh kenard that is so wrong...lol.......i'm with ya tho on trying to tear the cover off,but cut mine if half of what you and mike do.dang i miss the socal days........


yeah with injuries they do take a bit longer for us old guys,and with that and the equipment hotter than blazes,most don't want to come back,even tho they have healed mostly.like omar has said,it is not really fun to them anymore.i'll play no matter what the equipment status is,i just want to play.
May 26, 2011
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
It has never made sense to increase the speed of the game through hot bat/ball combinations as our reflexes slow through the aging process!!!
May 26, 2011
crusher
Men's 70
395 posts
I am not sure if playing would increase if composite's were outlawed.
Today for the first time I played in a day league with only ASA bats. The ball did not come off the bat as quick, outfielders did not play as deep, however, we still scored 21 runs and had fun.
Played in a tour at Plano this past weekend, scored 20 or so runs per game, outfielders played fairly deep, some balls went out of park and all had fun.
For me use of the Miken does add more enjoyment, even when the other guy is hitting it and you have to run as fast as possible and longer distances to catch the ball.
May 26, 2011
big cat7
Men's 50
96 posts
I think senior leagues should go to utrip rules all the way around.If you use utrip bats and decent balls people that can hit them will still be able to hit them.Also with the lower arc hitters can control where the ball is going better when they swing rather than fighting off some twenty foot high pitch and smashing one back up the middle.I think the utrip bats and maybe a 44/375 ball would be great.
May 26, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
crusher who did you player with.i was with spurs 60's,fri/sat.

our league here in tyler is an ASA rule league and we have a great time.yeah maybe not as many over the fence,but we only have a few that can anyways,but good time had by all.

big cat,as many will say,that will bring out the dirty bats,they say the only way to keep the game clean is to use the senior bats....yeah right,talked with the reebok rep back in feb and he said there were seniors trying to return bats that had broke with in like 30 days and less than a 100 swings according to the player ,that had been shaved.

the only way to keep the playing field level is with the 52 ball,no one gains any big advantage using this ball.
May 26, 2011
crusher
Men's 70
395 posts
mad dog. play with 65 greyhounds. With ED.
How did you guys do. I only got to watch a couple innings of your game.
May 26, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
crusher we ended up taking 2nd,played 5 games saturday.....it was a long day.
May 27, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Info purposes: No doctored aluminum bat was ever as hot as the stock bats today, let alone the shaved or rolled composites.
May 27, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
pricer you are so right.......yeah they could be endloaded,but not shaved.
May 27, 2011
softball4b
Men's 60
756 posts
Last night, I cracked my brand spanking new Dimarini White Steel. 15 Freaking swings and all with Senior Balls in league.Good thing there is warranty. Bring back the Blue Dots and Bomb Bats.
May 27, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
dang mike,by the way how do ya like the steel,have never swung one but have heard good things about it.i'm still hanging on to a worth est,cyro one equalizer 2,and a demarini 375 for metals,just in case........
May 27, 2011
garyheifner
361 posts
I don't buy for one second that composites have driven 1000s of players away. I have not been told by a single friend that they quit because of composites.

1. # 1 reason was $$$$. They couldn't financially committment to a 12-14 tourney schedule on retirement $$$.
2. When I started senior ball in 2001, there was an abundance of jelly bellies, out of shape guys that thought they were going to play some recreational ball. After a few years, and pressure to win, many realized it wasn't fun and many went back to park district ball.
3. And, then we have the ring whores. Managers who steal 2 or 3 of the the best players from other teams, form all star teams and that usually breaks up the teams who lost their top players. In the process, kick off the team guys who had been loyal for years. Most say screw it and just play park district.
4. Aluminum ??? I used to go through 5 to 6 of those a year that dented or flattened out. And, there were the men and teams that would cut off the tops, put tennis or super balls in and re-weld and finish them to look like new. And, we had some who would cut off the handle and add 2 inches to make 36 " bats and re-weld and regrip. At big tournies some of the top U-Trip teams in the country would present bats for certification and the officials would spray paint the knob in some color. They would go out to their trunks, pull out the illegal bats and pull out a matching can of spray paint and spray them.
5. Ban the Miken and go to U-Trip or ASA bats. Now wouldn't that be nice $$ for some of you who have bat deals with bat companies. Nice pay day for you as 10s of thousands of bats would have to be purchased.
6. I still haven,t figured out what you guys are talking about that with a miken a HR is almost automatic. I just finished a tourney at the 65 level in Milwaukee. Just about the 6 best teams the Mid-west has to offer were there. Each team has about 3-5 very powerful hitters. Not one single ball cleared the 300' fence in our 5 games. If you added the teams together you are probably looking at about 20 or more ring tournanment victories. I catch, pitch and play outfield. I have actually been seeing more and more non-U2s over the last 2 years. Many players are more interested in durability than a little x-tra pop. I personally think the game is exciting and just fine just as it is.
May 28, 2011
Omar Khayyam
999 posts
gary h, you raise some good points about reasons for the decline in the number of senior softball players over the past ten years, but they don’t convince me that the primary reason isn’t the introduction of composite bats and the resulting speed-up of the game and the increase in home run and long ball hitting, particularly by those who are not natural home run hitters. As an anecdotal example, my team has 5 men who have always been able to hit them out, even back in the single wall days. Now, with the season not even a third over, we have 8 different guys who have hit one or more HRs, including me, and of those 3 others, NONE of us had home run power without the composite.

As to your points, I agree that some senior players find it expensive to be on a tournament team on retirement dollars. But this has ALWAYS been the case. No change here, so where are the older guys who used to play? In northern California there are 104 teams, tournaments average about $300, and most are within early Saturday morning driving distance. Sounds like an entertainment bargain to me.

Not just in 2001, but in 1991 and 1981 there were always jelly bellies who wanted to play on a tournament team and could have benefited from being in better shape. Difference is that 10 years ago, they WERE on teams; it is only in the currently faster game that they have dropped out discouraged.

Guys driven by ring lust? Always been there. But of those “stolen” from other teams, I doubt that many are stolen because they are exceptional defenders or great pitchers. Most seem to be added because they can consistently hit the long ball.

Altered bats? Probably always been a problem, as you say, but those altered aluminum bats never were as hot as current composites, not to mention altered composites. But guys that are dropping out are not fearing altered composites so much (what’s the purpose?), but the routine unaltered composite that has changed the game to an overwhelming offensive bias.

Agree that banning composites would benefit some bat manufacturers over others, which is why mad dog suggests changing the ball instead.

Hard to believe that not one ball was hit over the fence in a major+ tournament. Must be a first, especially if the fence was only 300 feet. Maybe the ball is much hotter in northern California, because it is rare to watch two major+ teams slug it out without a single one over the fence. As to the U2, my concern is with the composite, not just the Miken. I agree that competitors are catching up with the Mikens. My new Combat isn’t broken in yet, but already equals the Miken.

Thanks for your observations.
May 28, 2011
DCPete
234 posts
Have to agree w/GaryH on this one; all the guys I know that stopped playing tourneys did so because of either $$$ or injuries. (or both)
May 28, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
No disrespect here, but how many great softball players back in the heydays of softball do you think or feel would be hitting the ball out at 300' with aluminum bats at 65 years old? I know people are taking better care of themselves today, but some of the players I watch hitting the ball with incredible speed thru the infield or even out of the park were not even close to performing like this 15-20 years ago. Something has changed this and I don't think they are working harder in the gym.
May 28, 2011
curveball
Men's 65
400 posts
I totally agree with Gary on this issue also. I'm in the 65 division and have never known any of our Palm Springs players to quit over a bat issue. In fact, quite the opposite is true. The board had suggested we remove the senior bats from the 10 teams in the "B" portion of our league, we had a near riot. Guys we're saying they'd give up the game, they enjoyed using the senior bat.
Palm Springs league has grown since the composite bats came out. It's still growing. We usually have 16 teams
on the weekend league, and 8 more in Palm Desert during a weekday league, I have never heard of anyone even complaining composites were too hot, let alone give up the game over it.
In this area, the only reason to cut back on leagues or tournaments is $$$$$$$$, period! A lot of our guys are just plain short of funds for a variety of reasons.
May 28, 2011
softball4b
Men's 60
756 posts
In this league we have to use single wall steel bats. The Dimarini White Steele is by far the best I have ever hit with. I liked the older versions that were white in color for durability. I hope that I just got a bad bat and my replacement will not crack, split or dent so quickly.

I take very good care of my bats and usually have good luck with them, except when I let Kenard borrow them. He just hits the ball too square.
May 28, 2011
Omar Khayyam
999 posts
Thought I made myself clear. I can't remember a guy ever saying specifically "I'm dropping out of senior softball because of those lousy composite bats", although they've come close by cursing the bats for changing the game. It's the senior bat's impact on the game that causes them to drop out.

Not lack of funds (remember the boom times of 2005, 2006, 2007?) unless it is the outrageous cost of the fragile composite bats that guys feel they need to buy to compete. I do know several guys who no longer play tournament ball for that reason—they still play league ball with their durable, less expensive single and double walls.

Not injuries. Injuries have always been part of the game, and older guys have always taken longer to recover. It is obvious, with the escalating increase in sports doctors, that guys get better care, better treatment, and heal faster today than even ten years ago. Injuries are less a factor today than a decade ago.

No, what I mean to say is that composites have changed the game since the early part of this century. It has diminished the importance of defense, frustrating infielders in particular who can't get to rockets that they used to snag. The newer enlarged fields built to contain composite bats are more tiring and less easily defensible than fields of the 1990s, thus discouraging outfielders. Base running, taking the extra base risk on the least bobble, steaming home from second on a drive up the middle, and so on is less valuable than in the past. What's the advantage of extra speed and staying in shape when a former single rolls to the 325 foot fence on the monster fields, and even Tubby can make it home from second. Safety is also a factor. Most infielders won't admit that the composite shots scare them, but a lot of them are playing on the lip behind third, for example, and I know pitchers who admit they are scared and refuse to pitch any more against the composites—problem is that some of those pitchers were really good as pitchers and they now have no other position they can handle except maybe catcher.

The figures are clear. Senior softball is less popular than a decade ago. Tens of thousands of softball players have entered the senior age group, both young 50s and guys going from 60 to 65 or 70, yet the number of teams is not increasing. It isn't money or injuries or lack of opportunity (I would guess than senior LEAGUES are increasing in some places as they seem to be in retirement areas like Palm Springs). But where are the tournament teams? Decimated by composites.

May 28, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
mike you should know better than letting kenard use your bat..LOL i have heard that the steels were a little brittle even the older white ones,had to hit at 70 degrees or better to be safe with them.i do know my demo's from back in the early 2000's before the composites came out would fold like a piece of paper in 70 or colder weather,reason i picked up the worth est in 97.
May 28, 2011
DCPete
234 posts
Omar; you're right about 1 thing: the 325' fields ruin the game since the outfielders just have too much area to cover & routine singles all become doubles or triples.
They should leave the fences at 300' & just make them 20 to 40 feet high.
May 28, 2011
Omar Khayyam
999 posts
DCPete. I agree with you about fence solution.
May 28, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
dc,still with this hot combo the so called singles become doubles b/c the outfielders still have to play next to the fence,and anything in the gaps are usually on the fence,you rarely can cut them off.
May 29, 2011
Ernies 53
Men's 50
23 posts
I agree with Omar, Durability on these composite senior bats suck, anybody that effectively uses their hips to generate torque in their swing will tear up ANY of these composite bats in 75 swings or less! However the old demarini's,lighthouses, ESTs,cryo bats they were not much better! Buying 2-3 d walls a year at 300 bucks a pop just to have them look like fly swatters, but at least the defense was a part of the game! Its still a lot of fun to play but......
May 29, 2011
stever
Men's 65
62 posts
This discussion seems to fall into the "good old days" category; at least to me. I think if we are honest with ourselves we can remember (at least some of us) when the same arguments against aluminum bats and moving the fences to 300 feet were made that it was "ruining the game we all loved." In fact, going back a little further, I can remember when slow pitch softball was looked at as an inferior product that was only good for co-ed or "those who weren't good enough for real softball!" Seems no matter how much things change, they stay the same. Bottom line, at least to me, is I don't believe the new bats or moving the fences, etc., are driving people away. I have never, I repeat never, heard anyone say this was why they weren't going to play senior softball any more. On the contrary, those that I have talked to that have quit, or at least reduced, their participation cite either the cost or injuries and the slowness of recovery from injuries. Along the same lines, I have yet to hear (except on this board) anyone lobbying for "dumbed down bats and balls" or "mandatory safety equipment" in the 15 years I have played senior softball. It is my belief that the vast majority of players not only like the advances in technology, but actually embrace it. No technology is perfect, but overall I think most seniors like it. Maybe because it is a way of fooling us by letting us think our skills are less diminished; but (again, at least to me) the allure of senior softball is the chance of competition at what not too long ago was the age most of us became couch potatoes.
May 29, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
stever i have been playing slowpitch since the late 60's along with baseball.fastpitch softball has been really an elitist type sport to me,had to know someone to get to play it,till i got onto the military.i know of no leagues near here where i live in east texas,knew of one in cali(central around the fresno area)before i moved.to me standing around as missiles are hit is not really an all around game,that i think is what we are getting at for the good ol days.

ernie those est's don't fold like tin cans at least mine hasn't,the demarini double walls did(i went thru 4 of them in like 2 years using them for games only),and i do have a one cyro that has lasted.i still have both and they are in great shape.i started using the mizuno techfire rage and fury after the demo's kept folding.the rage lasted ,but the fury did split after 700-800 swings.

like i said all we need to change is the ball,by going to the 52,we save bats and pitchers....
May 29, 2011
Don5
Men's 60
33 posts
The Stanislaus Senior Softball Association playing in Modesto, California has adopted safety measures including use of a pitching screen for our Ladies league. Our mens leagues pitchers have the option of wearing a face mask and shin guards or signing a waiver. We may be one of the largest weekly Senior softball associations anywhere, with 34 teams, 5 leagues and almost 350 members playing a 26 week schedule.
We have noticed a decline in membership over the past couple of years and through a series of emails and phone calls to our former members we have found that the primary reason was the economy, not our rules or the balls or the bats. Our new players(starting at 45 for the men)come out with their Utrp and ASA bats, within a few weeks they are swinging the combats and mikens and loving it.
Yes, we are a recreational league that has no playoffs or even keeps standings and we run thru the bases, and we use hot balls, the Baden Fire ball, which also is the ball of choice for NCSSA (NORCAL) yet we have a multiude of Major & Major Plus players in various age groups including 4 National Hall of Famers who play right alongside our weekly recreational players.
I don't believe for a moment that going back to non-composite bats will cause gain or loss of any softball players in our association. However, regression is not what we seniors are about, new and improved will cause our members to dig in their pockets and shell out $200 for a better bat, even if it's made with ostrich feathers or compressed water. Composite bats will still be around we we are done playing and ingenious players will still find ways to make them hotter.

Don Angle
President, SSSA
www.stanislausseniorsoftball.com
May 31, 2011
pitcher55
Men's 55
130 posts
it's the velocity of the batted ball that has changed the game.makes no sense to me.we are slower, and the ball is coming much faster.i've pitched for 40 years. i quit the young guys leagues and tourneys because of the velocity of balls coming up the middle.i figure senior ball will be fun and safer but same thing. google how many pitchers killed while playing softball.in ssusa,10 since 2002.what about all the other organizations,and what about all the serious injuries? and don't tell me to go play checkers,because i love this game and will keep playing as long as i can run. infielders are playing much deeper.and YES, i pitch scared,many do.yes i have 3 senior bats, and love to hit with them,BUT,i am all for slowing down the ball,and returning to playing some defense! if you are playing o/f,you don't have to worry.if you're on the i/f,running bases, or base coaching,you are taking a risk every pitch.i know many disagree with me,and i respect your right to. i believe that those are the most outspoken,but not the majority. how many more lives and serious injuries will it take,before we return to a more balanced game?
after a previous post on this subject,terry hennesy contacted me for my permission to print it in the ssusa magazine( with some editing),i agreed. they are listening.i suggested mailing out a survey to all members.i hope they do that.majority rules. i think most don't go on here and post.i am totaly convinced most would welcome a change.i do expect some to slam me for this,but i WILL keep playing,under whatever the rules may be.
dennis wiley, over the edge 55AAA #7.
June 1, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
Dennis, I'm right there with you. I started this thread to try and get a feel for the folks playing ball at the senior level. Some good and not so good responses have been posted. I have a hard time understanding why so many players have accepted this as "well we've already paid for the composites we might as well use them" or "the composites will be here long after we're gone". That is like watching a crime happen and telling the police you did not see anything. We cannot turn back the clocks to an era in softball that we all enjoyed, but we can put our foot down and make the game as close and enjoyable as it was back then. They still make all of the same equipment as they did back then. What would be the problem with that? We’re all senior softball players and for the most part our skills have diminished a tad. But let's not fool ourselves and allow the equipment to make us think we lost nothing at the risk of injuring someone. Anytime your infielders and pitchers are taking the field in protective equipment, should indicate we have some extremely large issues here. Why not do away with the composite bats and bring back the old cork center strung wound ball? I still have not seen one post on here that indicates one good thing that composites have had on improving the game. JMO
June 1, 2011
crusher
Men's 70
395 posts
Dennis, I googled and only found a person sliding into home died after being hit by a thrown ball trying to get him out.
I may not have ask the question correctly.
Can you post the ten links?
And SSUSA staff have you recorded these 10 deaths?
June 1, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Gary H.
You're monster right and have covered all
of what is said and unsaid about our game
and what the real story is.
Better equipment brings more parity and fun
for the less than elite players and some of 'em
unlike generous and prodigious Mike Adair,
can't handle it.
The most of our players enjoyment is enhanced
using good equipment and it's been the key point
of our playing since we was in little league i.e. bat/ball combo MUST be lively.

We're having fun and that's the key
and there's nothing wrong with what we're doing.
If you want make it more challenging and protect the pitchers a little more we can change some simple pitcher rules and voila.
You were right about the lobbying power
of those who have financial interest
in seeing us go to a "kinder, gentler" form of our game.
It's been obvious from the jump.

If you don't like the heat
get out of the kitchen.
There's not enough good reasons
to dumb down our game.

Eric Hoffer, San Francisco longshoreman and author penned not long ago,
"Something has died in a man
who can no longer praise the living."
We and our game are both alive and well.
June 1, 2011
pitcher55
Men's 55
130 posts
crusher,i have not looked at it recently. google- how many pitchers killed while playing softball. a few months back,there were lots of pages and reports there. on the 1st page, ssusa reported 9 pitchers killed since 2002. i heard there was another death about 2 months ago. after mentioning this twice before on a post,somehow or someone removed the ssusa report from there. probably because of lawsuits pending, or not yet filed. it is happening at all levels- college, high school, and youth leagues. mostly because of composits.sure it can happen with asa bats, metal, or even wood,but shaved or senior bats greatly increase the odds.pitchers,infielders, baserunners, and base coaches, have been killed or seriously injured by the velocity of the batted ball. a shot in the chest have stopped more than one heart. a shot to the face or head, has proved fatal plenty of times.
i've had shots hit near me that i had no time to move my glove one inch. i thank GOD they were't at me. i like mad dog's idea of a slower ball. a few months ago, a high school girl was killed in so. cal. it was all over the local news. one life is one too many.
as a pitcher, it's like guys shooting a bb gun at me,i can't stop them or even protect myself, and i have quick reflexes for my age.
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