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Discussion: NEW BALL - 2011 - 300/52

Posted Discussion
June 1, 2011
kbl
Men's 60
529 posts
NEW BALL - 2011 - 300/52
can anyone out there please tell me what you think of this ball and why 65(senior) teams would use them?

thank you, ken
June 1, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
The ball is a sock.
Nobody I play with likes 'em.
It's a thoroughly ridiculous idea for older/slower
guys to hit this ball.
Might as well go lawn bowling.
June 1, 2011
kbl
Men's 60
529 posts
einstein--i was expected that answer, but was not sure. ASA state--PA tournament will be using these balls. thanks, ken
June 1, 2011
Lefty
Men's 65
469 posts
einstein are you going to be in Dalton this year. Make sure you get a good flight. Want be long.
June 1, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
KBL,go to softballfans.com and ask this question(or maybe do a search first there).you'll get honest answers from people who actually played with this ball.we used it this year in one of my leagues(flat belly) and had no problems hitting the ball off the fence(and out for hrs) and had tons of fun playing.heard no complaints from anyone in the leagues(we have 6 div's).even at 61 i was able to hit balls off the fence and out,and we didn't use senior bats,used usssa,asa bats.

also NSA senior div uses this ball in their senior div with senior bats,and the seniors who played in our NSA senior tourneys here in texas,had no complaints.

if you are required to use your own ball buy the AD Starr tattoo ball for the 52-300.
June 2, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Lefty,
Great talking with you again and I would love to see you in Dalton, again.
Just the heat alone would be a relief
given how cold and rainy (unseasonal) it has been around here.
I'll only be going if someone's pitcher
can't make it.
Dalton was a gas last year for a couple of reasons.
How you hittin' 'em lefty and what bat are you using?
I'm swinging a Centenarian and it's hot.
June 2, 2011
MurrayW
Men's 50
92 posts
Mad dog, you must not have been in Georgetown last weekend at the senior NSA tournament. Heard a lot of complaints about that ball by both 50 teams and the two 40 teams that played in the tournament. The ball will go out if you hit it with the right underspin, but harder hits that don't have the underspin are quite disappointing in that they tend to just float out to the outfielders. And we were using the tattoos.
June 2, 2011
JBTexas
Men's 60
261 posts
Played with GI-40 last week in georgetown, being 62 got to use the senior bats, if you hit it right the ball jumped while if you missed it you got what you deserve. This ball will not allow mis-hit balls to go over the fence like some of the others due. First time using it I give this ball a B+, I hate to agree with Mad Dog but this may work.
June 2, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
no murray i wasn't.i have played with that ball all season now with the kids up in longview and we have had no prol hitting it and hitting it out.you can't just up and dead center hit it,as that will cause it to knuckle and float.you must get it just below dead center to get some back spin on the ball(as your hr hitters do)for good flight of the ball,even tho i have hit it out on a line drive.

JBT,i know it took me a little bit to get used to it,as i was a little skeptical at first,but now i feel we can have as much fun and even more with the defensive side being brought back into the game.
June 2, 2011
MurrayW
Men's 50
92 posts
I hit a couple over the fence that I would consider to be more of a mis-hit than some other hard line drives that floated to the outfielders. That's what I didn't like...better hit balls were outs and worse hit ones ended up being HR's just because they had the right spin.
June 2, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1972 posts
hey, Joe/Einstein-still looking forward to meeting you-was going to Dalton with Greco Hitmen, but they couldn't get enough players. Maybe next time.
Murray-sounds like some of the first RF80's-hit them hard and dead center and they float. Get the backspin and you feel like you whiffed it, but they carry.
June 2, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Murray.
That's the point.
It's counter intuitive with all the problems,
concerns and frustration that means.
Hit it hard/well and it doesn't go.
Undercut with an indirect hit and it goes.
That's F-ed up.

The move to use this ball
is full of self interest
and other concerns than what is necessary, fun and good for the most of us who play.

Hitting the center of a normal ball maximizes
the hitter's oppty to get on base as
Don Clattabaugh pointed out
in one of Ken Van Bogart's
monster hitting videos.

Hitting the center of the ball hard
is intuitive, immediately rewarding,
naturally reinforcing and the way hitting is and should be taught.

We aren't suckered or blind or lacking in will
in NCSSA where we use Baden Fire Balls
and 1.21 senior bats all 2000 + of us.

June 5, 2011
Lefty
Men's 65
469 posts
Joe I'm hitting with the Reabok 28el and Yellow Combat. Hitting starting off a little slow for me close to 700. I had the postr. cancel operation at the beginning of March. Put the seeds in and doing well. Starting to get me strenght back now at bp. Should be back to normal by Dalton. Love playing their.
Joe Lefty Falcon
Wild Bunch Softball 60M
Ya'll pass a good time
June 5, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Also, Murray,
that ball bounces and kicks off hard surfaces
way more than the 44x375 ball and will hit more bodies and be harder to field and defend against than at present.
It was a good idea as all ideas are good
to try a panacea or "cure-all" for senior sports
by dumbing down the ball but it wasn't thought out well enough, only suits a very few and simply will not work well enough
or ever be widely accepted
and WE got to decide on the game
we want to play and invest in, make no mistake about it.

You need to be sure that what you're changing
when something "isn't broken" is necessary and better than what you were doing before.
This is CLEARLY not the case with a 52 x 300
ball.
It's a sock and presents way more problems
than it solves.

June 5, 2011
kbl
Men's 60
529 posts
joe--i started this discussion. thanks for the imput all. i played in pennsylvania state tournament and the ball was like everyone discribed. more defense and only a few long balls. i think ASA is using this ball because of all the bat cheating in the younger guys leagues. IMO. thanks, ken
June 5, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
we been debating/discussing this issue forever.
The answer isn't kill the ball/game
and punish all the rest.
it's stop the cheaters.
June 6, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
kbl,murray-with this ball i have seen it hit hard and with distance,maybe not 400',but the fences are only 300 at 99% of all fields i have seen or played on.
as for bad bounces,no more than the 44 balls and if your hit with this ball(52-275/300)you get just a bruise and not broken bones.i see a kid get drilled with one and it didn't even brother him,he just kept on playing.
if we keep on using the 44 ball we will keep having cheaters as this is the only ball that will allow the cheaters to benefit,the 52 ball doesn't perform any better with a cheater bat than a stock one.it is the reason a lot of the assoc are going to the 52 ball,to stop cheating and to prevent injuries and law suits.
June 6, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
You don't punish everyone for what a few do,
Robert.
That's high school at best and it doesn't work
because it spirits rebellion.
Going to a safer, kinder, gentler ball was a great idea on paper but in reality it's a sock
and will kill our game.
The ball is good for those who want our game
slowed down.
and you all can fill in the reasons why anyone might want our game and it's equipment slowed down.

June 6, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
well than come up with a way detect dirty bats and send it to the assoc so they can police it and maybe,and i say mabe they'll let the balls return,but than it will be the ins company's you'll need to fight.why does the oldest and slowest need the hottest equipment around.i tore up a 3rd baseman this weekend who had no chance to field the ball,that was a lot of fun,yeah right.......
June 6, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
You should be grateful you can tear up
anything at your age, Robert
and stop crying and whining about changing
our game to a kinder, gentler one.
That ball is a sock and should NEVER replace the one we have.
The storm has passed.
The movement is dead.
There's nothing but tired, whiney talk and thinking warning us about the end of the softball world as we know it.
As per what you said, it was supposed to have ended by now
with guys getting crippled every game
What a crock.

Do you know what happened to the little boy
who cried "Wolf" Robert?
Nobody ever took him seriously, again.
Mad dog?
No, Gary is right.
Sad Dog is more like it.

Do you know all the money bat companies
are making off senior ball at 199 a pop?
Don't you know that if someone can get a lesser ball in play and displace them
they could sell their own new bats and balls?
C'mon, man.

Would players be willing to kick in a few extra bucks to satiate an insurance company's demand for higher rates?
That's a no brainer, Rob.
Would insurance companies want to make more money floating more expensive insurance policies?
You betcha.
C'mon man.

It was a good idea to solve everyone's problems
with a lesser ball on paper
but in reality it really doesn't work.

And we should go after guys who cheat
with loaded/shaved bats
hard and discourage the crap out of 'em.


June 6, 2011
MurrayW
Men's 50
92 posts
I don't like a ball that rewards you for spinning it and penalizes you for hitting it hard and directly. I would rather see more hard shots go through the infield for hits than bloopers that fall in between the infielders and outfielders. With the reduction in senior players skills, I see more of the latter that used to be outs when we were younger than the former.
June 6, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
there you go again name calling,guess you just can't stop can you.maybe you should also go back to the thread where you are whining about the pitcher who fooled you with a 20 mph pitch,to see who is whining.......those pitchers can be so bad...

murray makeing a ball spin is the primary reason a ball travels,a dead center hit only makes a ball knuckle and there is less distance there.so reward me with a ball that does spin any day.
June 6, 2011
MurrayW
Men's 50
92 posts
Mad dog, I wasn't clear enough. I wasn't talking about a ball with no spin on it at all. But the balls I hit out I hit them considerably lower on the ball than ones that were hit just below the center of the ball that just floated. We each have our preference on balls and neither one of us is going to convince the other, so I will bow out of this ball discussion now.
June 6, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
murray it is not the preference of balls to be hit,hey i'm just like you when it comes to hitting the ball,why not be big man on campus hitting these things,but i also feel for the guys on the other end,the defense.i have hit these 52 balls out on a line up here in our league in longview,tx,i use a lady virus in league,yes it is allowed b/c we do use this ball.only bats not allowed are the senior bats.i say this lady virus is a step below the senior bat and as good as any usssa bat,so that is the reason i say we still can have fun with the 52 ball,since the senior bats are the hottest out there......

murray will you be in dallas this weekend for the texas states senior tourney at keist,if so look me up #77 dallas spurs 60's.
June 6, 2011
kreugs
9 posts
einstein right,The ball is like hitting a cantaloupe.THE CANTALOUPE PROBABLY WILL GO FARTHER.I think youll lose 25 percent of senior players or more if you use the ball like the 52/300 tatoo.
June 6, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
kreugs you would still hit a cantalope out,but thats the way it should be,not the never hit one out before types doing it.
June 7, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
The bat/ball combo needs to be lively enough
to sustain interest, performance and investment.
Always has and always will be.
The 52/300 ball simply doesn't cut it.
It's that simple and would kill our game.

We'll form other leagues and play our game
or not at all if they lose their minds and will
and succumb to all this self interest.
We need to be awakened and aware of what IS
going on because unless we roll over and play dead
they'll never push or "float" that piece of crap
by us.

Again, if safety was the key issue and it's not
there's lots of ways to make our game safer
without killing the ball.
If cheating were the key interest and it's not
there's ways of "ticketing" and going after cheaters that would be more effective
while not punishing the entire group
for what an egregious and value-less few
might do.

When you REALLY think and look at the situation
you realize there's no reason and not enough
reason to dumb down our game.
It's full of self interest and ignorance
of who we are, what we want, need and deserve.

Can a righteous brother get an Amen?
June 7, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
622 posts
It sounds more like it would kill your game Steiner. Very few of your followers have pipe up in defense of the hotter bat/ball combo. More would like to see it changed then you think. As far as killing the sport, wrong on that as well. I truly believe more folks would be interested in participating if it were not a game similar to Death ball 2000, starring James Caan. Some of you need this hotter bat/ball combo to compete. Without them you’re just a spectator. Sorry, that's just how I see it. As far as protecting your interest? Who cares! Softball associations have never taken it into consideration before, so why now? My hope is to actually participate in a tourney in which you’re playing just to gage for myself why you might feel the need for speed. Play safe!!
June 7, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Wreaks of other/self interest than us who love and play our game.
Keep talking son.
You're obvious our interests will be best served
getting you out in the open.
What happened to the Blue Dot balls we used to use
and have fun with with single wall metal bats.
What happened to them?
All we ever wanted was to use a good ball with a good bat and have some fun.
But self interest from a couple of guys
who wanted to make a killing and steer us
in another "more benevolent" kinder gentler way.
Ball-oney.

Lively bat/ball combo is absolutely essential to the enjoyment of our game.
Absolutely.
Without it, you don't have the game
we love to play since we been babies.
When you swing hard and hit near the center of the ball and the ball dies/floats
that is NOT the game we know, love, deserve
or invest in to play.

Prohibition was thought a good idea too but
it never worked.
Trying to save us from ourselves
is a bunch of crap, LOUD and CLEAR.

You very few are not fooling anyone
and the Senior associations and bat companies
know what time it is.
Money and majority rule.
God bless America.
June 7, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Wreaks of other/self interest than us who love and play our game.
Keep talking son.
You're obvious our interests will be best served
getting you out in the open.
What happened to the Blue Dot balls we used to use
and have fun with with single wall metal bats.
What happened to them?
All we ever wanted was to use a good ball with a good bat and have some fun.
But self interest from a couple of guys
who wanted to make a killing and steer us
in another "more benevolent" kinder gentler way.
Ball-oney.

Lively bat/ball combo is absolutely essential to the enjoyment of our game.
Absolutely.
Without it, you don't have the game
we love to play since we been babies.
When you swing hard and hit near the center of the ball and the ball dies/floats
that is NOT the game we know, love, deserve
or invest in to play.

Prohibition was thought a good idea too but
it never worked.
Trying to save us from ourselves
is a bunch of crap, LOUD and CLEAR.

You very few are not fooling anyone
and the Senior associations and bat companies
know what time it is.
Money and majority rule.
God bless America.
June 7, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
sorry hit it twice
June 7, 2011
CRUSADERVB
Men's 65
272 posts
EINSTEIN....SAME BATS & SAME BALLS 44/375....NO CHANGES COMING!!! JUST A NEW PROCESS OF RATING THE SANDBAGGING TEAMS FROM PLAYING DOWN...IN ALL DIVISIONS!! MISSED YOU IN RENO MEAT!!
June 7, 2011
hombre
Men's 60
220 posts
I'm not trying to be smart, but why do fewer and fewer teams play in the ASA Nationals? I have played in them a number of times with a number of different teams. I have been fortunate to have been on the winning teams a number of times. The last two teams that I played with didn't want to return because of the bats and balls being used. Were we the only teams that felt that way?

When reading this board I notice that there are many who want bats with less pop and softer balls that do not go as far or as fast. If there are so many who want to play with these bats and balls, why doesn't ASA have more senior participation and why aren't there organizations being formed to cater to the lesser ball and bat advocates? It sounds like a big money making opportunity.

Again, I'm not trying to be smart. I'm just curious. Thanks
June 7, 2011
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
hombre.....this discussion has been had before about the bats and balls. Some do come on this board wanting lesser bats and balls, but they are by no means the majority in SSUSA. When SPA had a survey in 2009, the results told us what the majority wanted. The ones that post on here believing that they are the majority in wanting lesser bats would not believe the results. Here is a post with some results. "SPA survey
The results of the 2009 SPA survey were issued this week & can be accessed thru their site.
There were nearly 1,600 players responding (don't know who or how they were selected).
For the question of "how satisfied are you with the current 1.2 bat spec (includes Ultra IIs)" 71% said they were somewhat or very satisfied while 7% said they were somewhat or very dissatisfied.
Also lots of other interesting stuff on the survey worth checking out. "
June 7, 2011
MurrayW
Men's 50
92 posts
Mad dog, yes I will be in Dallas this weekend. #56 for Austin Rock 50's. Hope to see you there.
June 8, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
murray did we yak down in Georgetown in april,i know i talked to one the austin rock guys.
June 8, 2011
MurrayW
Men's 50
92 posts
Mad dog, no yakking with me in April. I wasn't playing then since I was recovering from my December knee replacement. I did go to some of the games to watch and coach 3rd. I'm not much of a yakker anyway.
June 8, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Ron.
How'd you guys do?
I'm still not recovered from the shots you and Freddie hit off me last year.
June 8, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
otay murray,will be looking for ya,we only play fri/sat tho,you youngsters play sat/sun.
June 9, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Ron.
To that end Major plus and Major should be combined.
I played with my 50 major team
the Barons and we would have a chance to
beat any of the major plus clubs with
equalizer home runs at 1 then singles
and no monster hitting club like Sommerville
or the Legends will have an advantage over
a singles hitting team as the Windy City team
out of Chicago comes to mind.
We played the national champion 40 and over
Class Act team in Pleasanton about a month ago
and had them beat for 3 innings only to score
no runs in the bottom of an extra inning.
All to say with proper rules
the difference between major and major plus
which is negligible in most cases
as I agree with you Ron,
is non existent and would allow us to have 10 + entrants in all tournaments going forward.
Defense is more important in all championship
contests and would be even more so
with the equalizer and 5 run rule.
Also, awards could be given out most hits
(not home runs) in a game/tournament
or least runs allowed in any tournament
to offset the clout of the biggest dogs
most expensive dogs in the yard.

June 9, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
with the equalizer and 1 up you still have the upper team hitting them out for singles,what is so good about that.play with the rules set forth and let it be.it always seems like when a so called upper div play suggest a change it is for hitting the ball out of the park,nothing else.......
June 9, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
There's 2000 plus of us who play under these rules and conditions
and we play a 6 team 5 game bracket round robin almost any
every weekend in Northern California we want
and have a blast.
We have major plus teams in with major all the time
and have very competitive and satisfying events.
We use 1.21 Senior bats and Baden Fire Balls which hit
and do well in the heat.
We have equalizer home runs at 1 with anything over the fence fair
earning a free base, like a walk (without pushing runners) which
keeps singles hitting teams in ANY game with long ball guys.
We have 5 run inning limits just like SSUSA which keeps better teams
from running away with a game in just one inning.
We even have SSUSA is associated with us and our rules
and could move to accommodate major and major plus
together anytime they chose going with what we've found
works very well.

Hitting the ball well, fast and far is the most satisfying thing
there is about the game we play for the most of us.
Those that can do and those who can't should praise and those
who still can, Robert.
You're obvious in your slowed, weakened and self serving posture
but think on this a turn or two.
"Something has died in a man who can no longer praise the living."
Erik Hoffer
June 9, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
really what major assoc allows that.
June 10, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Northern California Senior Softball Association or
NCSSA is the best association in the country.
Responsive, involved, run by active players
and always trying to improve/evolve.
We have a championship in BLD in Manteca
coming up in August and outsiders are welcome.
Look us up.
Thanks to Gary Tryhorn, Noel Lanctot,
Pete D'Avignon, Bob Fernandez, A.C Linde,
Bob "Ruth" Strand and many others
we got it "goin' on" I'm happy to say.
We're blessed and grateful to a man and
we talk about it all the time.

We can play somewhere within a 2 hour ride
any/every weekend all the way to November
with great equipment, rules
and the best Camaraderie.
Teams include the Longhorns, East Bay Oldies,
MTC, Redwood City Reds, Old Dawgs, ODB,
the vaunted Barons, Omen all the way to 100 teams
that are ranked and grouped so that we can put on
competitive tournaments all year long.
Again,
we play from 2 divisions easily all the time
and sometimes from 3 given a run differential of 3, 5, 7 or 8 runs
whatever might be fair for effective competition
to ensue.

We underline fun in senior ball and the reason
40's guys can't wait to hit 50 and
join good times.
June 10, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Why did you ask, Robert.
Think your slick.
I've mentioned our association a zillion times.
Trying to get some of your "slow game" buddies
to drop a dime on us as is their custom
and want to do for daring to play the game
the way we want and deserve to play
while opposing them and their self interest?
Trying to say our association is small by national standards?
Perhaps did you get a lobotomy
or even have an epiphany about truth and softball
and finally come to your senses?
Forgive me but leopards don't change their spots
too readily especially old, dried up ones
who still prefer to think denial
is a river in Africa.
If you want to play a slower game than we do
God bless you, go find and play it and may it be as fun as fun can be for you
but respect us and learn to leave us alone.
We like us and our game with lively bats/balls,
thank you very much (sounds like Elvis)
June 10, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
so a norcal senior softball
assoc is a major assoc.
seems to me it is
just a local bunch
of guys playing.
seems to me you love
to belittle people.
why do you even
bring this god character
in to this discussion.
you really think
there is one.
to me to play a
daring game,
would be to use the
52 ball and really
show us some of your talent
(if you have any)
instead of wanting
a ball on a tee,
just to see how far
a rock can be hit
with a lethal weapon.
last i knew,95% of fences
are at 300',how
much further ,
does a ball need
to be hit.

you want to be
daring,go skydiving.

June 10, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
You're not only old, slow and afraid
to play our game, Robert,
you're obvious and easy to read.
You're a hypocrite for playing our game (in Reno)
while slamming and whining about it/us
all the time.
It's you who have embarrassed YOUR SELF
Robert.
I just called you on it.
You did it to your self.
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