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Discussion: Just what is the call?

Posted Discussion
June 20, 2011
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2640 posts
Just what is the call?
I have already mentioned this in the Aiken, SC thread.
A batter swings and pulls a muscle or pinches a nerve and can't continue playing. They are batting 11, all that are present. We're thinking the next time he is scheduled to bat it will be an out. When that time comes we ask about the out and after checking the official lineup card the umpire delares no out. Apparently his name was never written on the lineup card and given to the umpire.
Since there was no official scorekeeper it wasn't noticed. Is it the umpire duty to verify the lineup card?
What is the correct call here???
June 21, 2011
turn2
484 posts
Bruce,
It sounds like it was a mess this past weekend. I would say the guy would be out if you had him in your scorebook. How can you be playing and it not be an out?
I think I would pass on this tournamnent next year.
Later
Donnie
June 21, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
I would think it is the other team's responsibility to verify the lineup/batting order.

But my question is, if the guys waa allegedly not in the lineup, how was he allowed to bat and subsequently get injured? Is he not out for illegally batting? Since when can you just grab guys who are not in the lineup and send them to the plate?
June 21, 2011
stick8
1275 posts
Bruce I'm not 100% certain on SSUSA rules but in USSSA, NSA, ASA qualifying tournaments the spot would be an out unless the team has a replacement to put in. If this was a TOC qualifier there should have been scorekeepers. Since you say their weren't it's up to the other team to catch that. That's why it's important for each team to have a scorekeeper. It's not the umpires job to verify each batter as they come up to bat unless it's a pinch hitter.
June 21, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
But stick, the bigger point is if the guy wasn't in the lineup/batting order how did he even get to bat in the first place? How did they explain that?
June 21, 2011
doker
Men's 60
168 posts
Doker here!!! here's my interpretation on this one....if the injured player cannot continue and there is no sub then he is out!!!!..the next time he comes up there can be no out as he was already out the first time.......this is in the rule book for ssusa.....and since the other team didn't notice he wasn't on the scorecard....no harm no foul....they just continue to play with the ten men left!!!!!!!!!!!!!
June 21, 2011
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2640 posts
I agree that it is the responsibility of each team to keep a book on their team as well as the competition.
We were just keeping run totals for each inning as well as courtesy runners. Even then were were 3 or 4 instances when we thought the score was incorrect.
This is a perfect example of why you need to keep up with everything.

Doker, suppose we did keep a book and the lineup given to us was different than that given to the umpire, what then?
June 21, 2011
UMP IN NORTH GA.
47 posts
Not saying this is by any way what ssusa would like to be called ... but this is how I would handle it ... the line up given to the umpire is offical ... if and when the "?" comes up if the next pitch is not made there is an out for that time the game continues from the point with the line up the umpire has, all runs up to that point count ... if the player in "?" is subed for and the next pitch is made that runner is still in the game and counts if he scores or gets put out. The key is you make the line up right from that point on .... CLEAR AS MUD ?

JESSE
June 21, 2011
hitman
Men's 65
301 posts
Hey Jesse,

I know you would get it right.
You umpin this weekend at Marietta?
Going to be hot as it always is.
Look forward to seein you.

The Hitman
June 21, 2011
stick8
1275 posts
Gary, I'm not sure what would explain that. Perhaps the player in question presumed he was in and didn't realize he wasn't listed on the official line up card. Perhaps the manager fully intended for him to be in but forgot to write his name on the scorecard. In the absence of an official scorekeeper, it's the job of the opposite teams scorekeeper to watch for that and call attention to the umpire. I had a similar situation Saturday officiating a youth AAU basketball tournament. A kid checked into the game, the scorekeeper hit the horn, called us over and indicated that player wasn't on the scoresheet. Technical foul, 2 shots and the ball. The kid is out for the rest of the game.
June 21, 2011
doker
Men's 60
168 posts
IN SSUSA YOU CAN ONLY BE OUT ONCE DUE TO AN INJURY WHEN YOU ARE BATTING....THE SCENARIO THAT WAS PUT FORTH WASN'T REAL CLEAR WHETHER THE PLAYER PLAYED ON IN THE GAME....ALSO IF HE CUD NOT CONTINUE HIS TIME AT BAT HE WUD BE CALLED OUT...WHICH IS THE ONE TIME.....IF HE CONTINUED IN THE GAME AS AN INELIGBLE PLAYER THE OPPOSING TEAM THEN CUD PROTEST AT THE TIME HE BATS AGAIN AND IF HE WASN'T ON THE OFFICIAL LINEUP CARD GIVEN TO THE UMP BEFORE THE GAME THEN AN OUT CUD BE GIVEN IF A PITCH HAD BEEN MADE BEFORE THE DISCOVERY.............DOKER
June 21, 2011
stick8
1275 posts
Doker, is the SSUSA rule different if that player was ejected from the game?
June 21, 2011
doker
Men's 60
168 posts
IF HE WAS EJECTED FROM THE GAME...I BELIEVE IT IS A FORFEIT...AS THERE WERE NO SUBS TO TAKE HIS PLACE IN THE BATTING ORDER.......DOKER
June 21, 2011
doker
Men's 60
168 posts
BAT ELEVEN MUST END WITH ELEVEN...12-12.....13-13..INJURY IS THE ONLY WAY OUT OF A FORFEIT
June 21, 2011
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2640 posts
Doker, the injured batter did not continue to play.
June 21, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3929 posts
so bruce there should of been an out the first time he batted(when his spot came up) and then nothing after that.
June 21, 2011
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2640 posts
Bob, I can understand that.
The problem that I and my teammates had was the director's unwillingness to discuss it.
He acted in a very unprofessional manner.

If we learned anything at all it was that each team needs to keep a book.
June 21, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2615 posts
mad dog, he should have been an out the first time he batted since he wasn't in the lineup.
June 21, 2011
Joncon
289 posts
4.3 (3) EXTRA PLAYERS AND EPS
B. Should an offensive player become injured, causing the team
to drop below the original batting line-up, the team will not be
forced to forfeit the game, and an out will be declared only the
first time that position comes to bat.


**************************************

Obviously he was an offensive player so, what's the arguement?

The rule doesn't say ""Should a player listed on the line up card become injured...""

Being listed or not on the line up card is another issue. He is bating so he is an offensive player.

June 22, 2011
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2640 posts
The arguement was that the umpire and TD declined to admit that he was an offensive player. His next at bat was not an out.
We tried to get the umpire to concede that the injured player was in fact a batter earlier in the game but he declined to admit this.
June 22, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3929 posts
yes he should of been for not being on the lineup card,but i think that is another discussion.if ya don't catch it that is your prol tho,not the umps.



bruce ya should of kick him in his sack.....DOH,LOL.......
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