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Discussion: Blowing up the middle in Senior Softball - are screens next???

Posted Discussion
July 10, 2011
Parman
11 posts
Blowing up the middle in Senior Softball - are screens next???
Is this really necesaary to blow up the middle?? Played another major team this weekend and at least 10 balls were hit right up the middle in the championship game. The last two, one hit our pitcher on the shin and the next one hit him on the ankle. After that I had enough and called this team out. They cried like a bunch of 2 year olds, thats softball, blah, blah, blah. One guy even said after they won the game and I quote "That's why we're here". I have no respect for a team like that and they showed they had no class at all. Yea, it's softball but don't tell me you can't control where you hit it. This team was purposely hitting shots right up the gut. I caught and I damn well knew what they were doing. Our team didn't hit any up the middle, nor did we even try to. Yea it's part of the game and yea our pitcher maybe should have worn equipment but I see very few pitchers that do in the tournaments we play. Everyone knows that Ultras, Combats, Reeboks are all hot bats but I just think teams can play the game without blowing up the middle. I have always agreed with Dirty that screens were an unnecessary evil but now I am close to reconsidering that maybe they are needed after all.
July 10, 2011
tater9
62 posts
You guys are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to nice.
July 10, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
Parman, these sound like a bunch off old men who just didn't cut it in the younger more competitive game of softball and are trying to make up for it later in life. Unfortunately, as so many have said the middle is a part of the field and should be used. Don't fall into the trap of retaliation and take aim at their pitcher. This is how some gets hurt or worse. Good luck and play safe!
July 10, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Parman.
Screens will work with us rather than
going to shitty bat/ball combo.

Loyalty and caring as on all the teams
I've played for play a part
in a middle war.
Players go to defend the pitcher/player
they respect and love which is not a function
their lack of true prowess and prestige
as Jeff suggests.

Even in the big leagues
players retaliate and we do to.
Just don't start it.

You can't control a player who wants
to answer for his friend being endangered
unnecessarily.
Nothing has to be said, either.
It's just part of who we are and
how we play the game.

Jeff.
You've adopted Good luck and play safe.
I've never heard than in all my days.

Good luck and play hard.
Good luck and play well.
Good luck and play to win.
Good luck and play your ass off.
Good luck and play like it's the last game
of your life.
Good luck and play your guts out.
Good luck and may the best team win.
Good luck and leave it all out on the field.
Good luck and kick some "A".
Good luck and play smart.
Good luck and play for your teammates
Good luck and give it all you got.

I must say
I've never heard Good luck and play safe.
My girl friend and mom don't even say that.
They tell me to go out and come home
champions.

Good luck and play safe
sounds like what is said to kindegarten students
when they go out for recess and
just doesn't feel and sound right for me,
my teammates and competitors.

Again, an assumption of risk is inherent
and necessary for us in order to exercise
and compete and the movement to kinder
and gentler softball is in violation
of this major tenet of the experience
of our game.
July 10, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Good luck and have fun
Good luck and make us proud
Good luck and give it your best
Good luck and bring home the gold
Good luck and winning is the most fun
Good luck and drink lots of water
Good luck and don't get cheated
Good luck and go for the gusto
Good luck and take no prisoners
Good luck and hit it a mile
Good luck and don't give up
Good luck and hustle
Good luck and play with class
Good luck and be ready to play
Good luck and be on time
Good luck and be aggressive
Good luck and trust your instincts
Good luck and get some rest
Good luck and give it all you got
Good luck and be positive
Good luck and do all you can
to help the team win
Good luck and leave the arguing to the coach
Good luck and be good sports win or lose

July 10, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
parman some people's attitude are that way,they get to use the hottest equipment available to any assoc around,but they have to blo up the middle.it is also the motto for the hr hitters who ,when the hrs are gone, will do and go.BS as far as i'm concerned.
the only way to keep our bats and be safe is to go to the 52 ball.it will keep the serious injure off the table,unlike the 44 ball.
July 10, 2011
tinman
Men's 50
75 posts
I recently hit a liner to a pitcher which was caught.We were losing late in the game and I hit a 2 strike short pitch.Problem is I was our pitcher and my teammate warned me to cover up next inning.The first batter hit the ball over my head and the second batter hit me square in the upper leg.I like our bat /ball combo but lets play like over 50 men.I like the idea of pitch screens after having thousands of BP balls hit at me and using it in a early season tourney.Hitting a safety sock is not the answer unless you want to play the same team best of three in different cities.
July 11, 2011
Mr. Manassas
225 posts
I am a pitcher and I hit the middle sometime to get a hit. The middle is no different to me than any other spot on the field. I have never tried to hit anyone, pitcher included, and I would not expect anyone to try and hit me. And at the same time I do not want any player to avoid hitting the middle if they think that they can get a hit.
July 11, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Joe, if you want a game with screens go play miniature golf.

The middle is/used to be part of the field. This is yet another example of the changing/harming of the game due to the special bats.
July 11, 2011
Enviro-Vac
Men's 60
389 posts
Hitting to the middle is 1/3 of the feld. Why would one restrict themselves by not hitting to 1/3 of the field? Trying to intentionally hit a pitcher is an entirely different matter.

July 11, 2011
GaCMan
86 posts
Best advise I have ever gotten on pitching and being hit at
1 IT'S NOT IF YOU ARE GOING TO GET HIT IT'S WHEN YOU ARE GOING TO GET HIT.
2 2 STEPS BACK STOP AND PUT YOUR GLOVE UP BE PREPARED.
3 CATCHING THE BALL AND THROWING THE RUNNER OUT WILL STOP THIS AS QUICK AS ANYTHING YOU CAN DO.
4 YOU CAN NOT DEFEND YOURSELF IF YOU ARE BACKPEDLING STOP AND GET READY.
5 MOST PITCHERS I KNOW CAN TELL ALMOST IMEMEDIATLY IF IT'S COMING BACK UP THE MIDDLE.
6 I USE THE MIDDLE AS MUCH AS ANYONE BUT WOULD NEVER EVER TRY AND HIT THE PITCHER TO ME THATS AS LOW AS A GROWN MAN CAN GET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
7 WE ARE NOT KIDS ANYMORE WE SHOULD PLAY LIKE GROWN MEN.
8 NOT EVERY BATTER CAN CONTROL WHERE THEY HIT THE BALL SOME JUST HIT THE PITCH WHERE IT'S THROWN.
KEEP IT SIMPLE,LETS PLAY BALL THERE AREN'T ENOUGH DAYS LEFT!!!!!!!!!
July 11, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
I said
"good luck and play safe"
Joe you said" sounds like what is said to kindegarten students"
You also said "As I said before I'm not any good
at kicking anyone's ass
because in the long run
we're all CHILDREN of God, aren't we.
Your words Joe, not mine.
I never seen anyone that needs to get the last jab in like you do.
July 11, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
pricer he doesn't even believe it,just saying it thats all,other wise he would look into using a ball that would keep all seniors safe.he'll be back on his soap box in a sec......
July 11, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
GaCman.
Great points to consider.
July 11, 2011
stick8
1261 posts
Middle is part of the game. Always has been and always will be. If pitchers are concerned about safety they do have the option of investing in protective gear.
July 11, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Sure stick, let's make pitchers look like hockey goalies. Now that is the way the game was meant to be played. :(
July 11, 2011
stick8
1261 posts
It certainly wasn't meant to be played that way Gary. Back in the day most of the pitchers I played with and against dared batters to hit it at them. These days it's nearly the other way around. WTF happened?
July 11, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
In our particular case, the fragile egos of old men resulted in the special bats.

I think the kids use cheater bats to help win. Old men use special bats to be able to go home and tell the grandkids that Grandpa hit a home run.
July 11, 2011
stick8
1261 posts
That about sums it up Gary. For the kids I've been given information that starting next year there will be a whole new batch of bats that are supposed to be tamper proof. Don't know the material or anything like that but as I've been told the whole fabric of the kids game will be changed. But senior ball will still be senior ball.
July 11, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
So, clearly, in this case youth are wiser than the old guys?
July 11, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
STICK I THINK THAT IS USSSA'S DOING.I HEAR THAT ALSO,SO FAR ASA ISN'T SAYING MUCH.TO ME THE 52 BALL DOES AWAY WITH THE CHEATERS THO,UNLESS YOUR THAT DUMB TO GO SPEND HARD EARNED $ TO GET 10' MORE FROM A SHAVED BAT.THE KIDS WILL FINALLY BE PUNISHED FOR BEING CHEATERS AND GUESS WHAT,I'M GLAD.
July 11, 2011
Parman
11 posts
I am going to try to convince our pitcher to at least get some shin guards. I know that would have helped quite a bit if he would have had some on when the rockets were coming right up the gut.
I just have a problem when shot after shot keeps coming up the middle and guys are shifting their feet to do it. No need for it, period.
July 11, 2011
tater9
62 posts
Par,
Can't see "Big Ed" wearing shin guards.....that guy is as tough as old boot leather. Yes, a good percentage of senior players can pretty much hit the ball where they want to and is frustrating when you know they are hitting up the gut on purpose. Again, you guys are waaaaaaaaaay to nice. What's good for the goose is also good for the gander.
Enjoy the rest of the year.
July 11, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
tater, when you say "What's good for the goose is also good for the gander" I certainly hope you didn't mean retalite at the other team's pitcher. I hear that on various boards, and it is about as cowardly as it gets.
July 11, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
then what do you suggest they do,just take it.
July 12, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
I knew I would get asked that, and the answer is so obvious.

Of course not. You go after the guy(s) who you think are intentionally trying to hit the pitcher. Why in the world would you go after an innocent bystander? What did he do to you?

If you get sucker punched in a bar do you sucker punch the guy's friend, or go after him? How anyone pulls in a third-party is beyond me. That is truly cowardly.
July 12, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1953 posts
Sometimes there is such a fine line between going after a pitcher and just going up the middle. We have a couple guys whose strength is the shot between the shortstop and the pitcher and it has been that way for the whole 20 years or so that I have played with them. They didn't change anything, but the game has changed and the attitude about going anywhere near the pitcher has changed. I used to be proficient at going between the second baseman and the pitcher, too, but I don't do it very often now. Anyone that intentionally goes after a pitcher has lost touch with reality! It is still a GAME.
I don't know what the answer to this is, because you can't just take 30% of the hitting area away from the batter. I abhor screens-if you are going to do that, just put a pitching machine out there.
I still believe a 'measured' step back-to the level of the Orange crush, or EST with the 47/525 ball and the smaller sweet spot would be an acceptable compromise in the bat/ball controversy. There would still be plenty of offense. That combination was the best out there and there was a lot of talk about limiting even that combo before the composites came out. I remember when the initial Ultra came out. I hit a 47/525 ball about into orbit with it the first time I used it. Guys who I never saw hit one out before were hitting them over the lights. Not all technological changes are for the best.
July 12, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
These bats are like Viagra to the old guys. They can now do things they never could before.
July 12, 2011
stick8
1261 posts
We'll see how it plays out but at this point it looks that way Gary.
July 12, 2011
stick8
1261 posts
Mad Dog it is USSSA. Although I don't know specifics of the bat material I'm a bit more privvy as to what's going on, what's being implemented and what any future ideas on the table are for USSSA. I've umped a ton of USSSA NIT's this year and at least up here in Detroit shaved sticks are almost considered the norm. I've used that 52/275 ball you reference and it's a sock, no question. For the tournaments we use the Worth Hot Dot. It's a good ball in the cooler weather but in the heat it's a sock. But senior ball will always be senior ball.
July 12, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
well sounds nice 19,go after the players that do it,but what fielder is playing closer than the pitcher,not one that i know of,what if it is an outfielder,how do you propose to get even.maybe your own pitcher should be regulating his teammates and let them know they can pitch,if they so desire to bust middle.you are comparing apples to oranges with your sucker punch,instead you should of said,one member of a gang sucker punches you,you hit the closest memember of the gang to you,,,oh then run like hell.......

stick i haven't seen the 52 balls change with temp so far,the 40 (classic M) does a great bit,great for under 70,over goes to mush.the 52 ball stays the same,we played in 100 degree heat last nite in league and 2 were hit out in our game, 52 ASA trump stotes,so like i have said,i have seen no diff in it regardless of temp.
July 12, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
I guess this isn't as easy for you as I thought it should be.

You walk up and confront him. If you REALLY think, and that is the key component, the guy was trying to hurt your pitcher you go up to him directly. I understand the umpire, league director, tournament director, whoever is going to frown upon that but if you REALLY think the guys is trying to hurt you or one of yours you take care of it. That is a much bigger issue than just a game.

So if a guy sucker punches you, then runs away, you hit one of his friends because he is closer????? You are kidding, right?
July 12, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
really so you think fighting is the answer,all that will get you is tossed from the game and most likely from the tourney,thats real bright.
July 12, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
I think standing up for yourself is.

So a silly game or meaningless senior tournament is worth more than your dignity and self-respect, not to mention your health?

You really think the answer is to cowardly go after an innocent third-party with what could be construed as a weapon?

By the way, so would you hit the innocent friend in the bar instead of the guy who hit you first?
July 12, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
Think about it for a second? When, why & how did this even become an issue? The middle is a part of the hitting area. Pitchers should be able to field this position, right?
July 12, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Seems like it became an issue when the speeds of the batted balls exceeded the reaction times of the pitchers.
July 12, 2011
southernson
254 posts
It's always been an issue.....even 30 years ago when I was 155 lbs with 130 of that being hair...Guys try to test you, it's part of the game.

Does the ball get there quicker, it does. Are the reflexes slower, yeah they are. Should we bastardize the game, no hell no.

Play ball...pitchers are going to take shots, it's reality. No whining here...



July 12, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
The game already has been bastardized.

Run limits, time limits, home run limits, mats, 1-1 counts, courtesy runners, screens, PPRs, pitchers looking like hockey goalies.

We are WELL past the stage of bastardization. :(
July 12, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
if they are in a gang like i said,the first one of the gang i get to,if it is the one,if not the first one..........

so you want to go fight the guy who goes middle on ya then,well that is really bright,to me all that will do is get you tossed,then they go for the next pitcher,till you have none left,then what happens.the pitcher on the offending team needs to let his players know to stop it,unless he doesn't care if he gets hit at.you blow my pitcher up,i blow yours up,i'm not talking about a ball or 2,but you constantly hitting there.

yes middle has been always open,but with these deadly weapons we use now a days,with our slower reflexes,we need to do something with the game,are we all just playing b/c we have death wishes,the 52 ball takes care of that and it doesn't bastardize the game.

southernson do you pitch senior ball any.
July 12, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
I have yet to use the word "fight", you are the one who is dropping that word.

But the LAST thing I do is go after an innocent bystander. Just very cowardly. And I don't need to go through the other team. The direct approach is much more effective, and much more masculine.

And personally, I don't go after anyone in those cases. All I started saying in this thread is the very worst thing to do is go after someone who did nothing to you, or your pitcher.
July 12, 2011
garyheifner
349 posts
It is a really simple problem to solve. Allow all age groups to use the 11th defender. That defender must stand/begin within 5' of second until the ball is hit, on the dirt on either side of the pitcher. You must make this the rule or some teams will try and play 5 outfielders which defeats the purpose of the middle fielder. Alas, very few balls will be hit up the middle. Most on the ground will be outs or double plays. This will also allow another bench player the opportunity to play. We are a AA team and have defeated a number of AAAs using the 11th defender (we can't without the 11th) and were averaging 2-3 double plays a game due to that guy in the middle picking up middle shots and making unassisted plays. Guess what??? Teams started pulling the ball or hitting to right.
July 12, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Southernson.
Right on.
July 12, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
do you really think that is gonna stop them from hitting at your pitcher,by just telling them to stop,yeah i would love to see and hear that conversation,and how it ends up.

what do you think happens when you try and confront someone by the way,usually a fight will ensue.

gary not a bad idea,still tho if a pitcher is hit there will be much damage done to him with our hot combo,use the 52 ball we don't have to worry about losing anyone.
July 12, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
With your lack of credibility Robert
keep promoting that ball for all of us.

If someone, anyone, including you,
were REALLY concerned about safety of the pitcher
without destroying our game
you would either promote screens
or changing arc, rubber and ball count rules giving more leverage to pitchers
along with some batting rules like
home runs as outs which keeps hot balls
off the pitcher as we have adopted
and use all year long, in NorCal or NCSSA.

Protecting the pitcher via retaliation
is part of the fabric of the game we've been playing all our lives.
Just don't start it if you don't want
to go down that road and
don't start crying
if one of your guys zooms the middle and
one or 2 of their guys return the favor.
Just part of life and our game
that likely is never gonna change.
July 12, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
really and what is your credibilty.you have less then i do,so please you might want to rethink that statement of yours.

only 1 thing you mention will really protect the pitcher and that is a screen and who really wants that out there,not many that i know do,not one of the others protect the pitcher what so ever,just ways for the pitcher to try and deceive the batter or more hr to be hit.you feel the need to completely change the game for your purpose....
July 12, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Not the intention, but if a fight does start so be it. It beats the hell out of taking your anger/frustration/whatever out on an innocent bystander.

And is a MUCH more masculine way of defending yourself.
July 12, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Not the intention, but if a fight does start so be it. It beats the hell out of taking your anger/frustration/whatever out on an innocent bystander.

And is a MUCH more masculine way of defending yourself.
July 13, 2011
Rudy6
3 posts
Was notified about this discussion from another player on our team. I don't use a code name and had to add the number because someone else uses it too. I do believe I am one of the players in question about hitting the pitcher. I hit the pitcher twice in the championship games. Believe me, it was unintentional! When you have two strikes (both times) you have to hit where it is pitched. Very rarely do I hit it above the knee level when I go that direction. Nobody feels worse about it than me and you can take that or leave it but if you know me, you know I'm speaking the truth. I never play that way and I don't believe in it. Sometimes it happens. The only thing that would make me feel worse from the situation is if my own pitcher got hit because I hit their's. You can't cut that part of the field out. It's one thing to blast it up the middle and another to hit it on the ground. I relayed an apology both times and apologized after the game to the pitcher face to face.
July 13, 2011
stick8
1261 posts
Rudy6 I'm not certain why you'd apologize to that pitcher. I understand and commend the honor you showed in being concerned but based on what you write I see nothing you have to apologize for. I read it as you were trying to get a hit and had to keep the ball fair--nothing to apologize for in that. If a third baseman was playing in and you zinged one by him would you apologize for that? Of all the senior players a very few idiots might intentionally try to hit a pitcher (and there's a rule on that) but the vast majority are looking to get a hit thru the infield. Nothing wrong with that. It's part of the game.
July 13, 2011
Rudy6
3 posts
stick8 - There's kind of code of ethics in it for me. Much like you'll screen a goalie and have him see it a blink before it gets to him, you don't mess with him physically as he's doing it. I play in the infield and get the analogy but it sure seems like there's more time to adjust there. Just know that most of the guys I play with and against understand it (and don't like it) but it happens. We're not trying to hit the pitcher.
July 13, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
I completely agree with stick.

Rudy, I know it has become popular lately for guys to apologize to pitchers for, well I am not sure for what. Trying to get a hit, I guess.

I get apologized to on occasion, and usually get caught off-guard but just say "no problem" and move on.
July 13, 2011
Tate22
Men's 55
260 posts
My two cents, especially since I've been pitching lately.
Hitting the ball where it is pitched to the center of the field is part of the game, period. That is not going after a pitcher, or "blowing up the middle". No need to apologize or explain. Pitchers are partially responsible for where balls are hit and should not expect batters to take bad swings at purposely placed pitches as a courtesy. Even the best hitters will miss slightly, resulting in a ball going close to a pitcher. Especially against pitchers whose ball is moving or on windy days. Finally, what sane hitter hits it directly at a player wearing a glove. When I hit up the middle, I want it 10 feet high gapping the two center outfielders, not right at a guy with a glove happy to hand me a 1-3 or 1UA in the scorebook.

CaCman is right on on how to prepare for balls hit in the middle, Gary 19 has made these same points many time.
Wearing protective equipment is the only practical way to prevent injury if you are pitching, it is currently a choice and does not give any advantage to the pitcher or disadvantage to the batter, it is simply common sense. It should remain a choice, however, not a mandate. Screens provide a false sense of security and dilute the game.

Like another commenter, when I was 30 I would invite people to hit up the middle, not now with these 58 year-old reflexes and eyes. A crappy DeBeer 212, hit square by a single wall bat can do plenty of damage, so lesser performing balls and bats do not guarantee safety or protection.

As a manager of a 55 M+ team, I take responsibility for how my team acts, including intentionally going after a pitcher. If I think that is happening, my player can just head for the parking lot. I will not tolerate "middle's open" comments or other inflammatory code words out of my dugout. That's not how we play. Self-policing sportsmanship can go along way towards keeping the game civil.

JMHO
Don Newhard
Nighthawks 55 M+
July 13, 2011
stick8
1261 posts
Rudy6 I completely understand the code of ethics thing. It may be a nice gesture to apologize but if the intention of the batter is not to strike the pitcher but to get a base hit there's nothing to apologize for. I know many pitchers who take offense if you apologize to them for hitting the middle.
July 13, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
tate the 52 ball will minimize the effects of a pitcher hit.instead of broken bones and such and pitcher prolly leaving the game,it will be a bruise and pitcher continuing to play and be able to pitch.

tate you are also right on where the pitch is thrown,i have seen pitchers throw middle/outside then bitch when it does come back at them,hell i did it monday nite in my kids league i play in, b/c we have a halo rule(any ball going thru the box,is an out),and already had 2 outs,threw the ball on the outside of the plate and the batter hit it back at me,for the third out,didn't even have to make a play on it.dumb rule but our parks and rec has it in b/c of so much middle hitting and them being sued 5 times last year for major injuries to pitchers.we now play with the 52 ball and no such injuries,but still have that dumb halo rule.oh well guess that want to be extra safe.
July 13, 2011
Rudy6
3 posts
stick8 - thanks for the info.
July 13, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Mad Dog is to Sad Dog as
Mad Ball is to Sad Ball.
That ball is a true dog, Saddy
and you are it's daddy.
Sad Dog begets Sad Ball.


July 13, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
ok 19 we are at a bar,you have been jumped by 5-6 guys,so in your opinion it is ok for the guys you are with,to just watch them beat the crap out of you,or do they come to your aid.


whiney ,is your mind is so feeble that is all you can come up with,sounds like the little kids at the play ground.......might be time to change your diapers,better check them........
July 13, 2011
southernson
254 posts
Guys,
I got no horse in this race I just don't like the solutions like the "hockey goalie look, or the screen". And Gary19,
I agree with you, your point is well taken...the game has been bastardized...TOO MUCH. And that's the point...

Truth is as a pitcher, most of the time you know when that ball has a shot at coming back up the middle....Luv to pitch the power hitters short and outside? You have to be ready to take one in the ear, or the leg, or the nutsifyouwill.... The pitcher has no one to blame....If he put's it there, it's probably coming back at him....Especially if a big power hitter is 0-2 and you have been throwing him there all day, tough break buddy, he's driving one back at you.....and in the spirit of competition and fair play, you can't blame the hitter...even if the pitcher gets hit and dumped. It's part of the game....

When it comes to pitcher protection there is an equalizer to the age, jacked up bats and lively balls...and that's just raise the height it can be thrown. Yeah, I know it's not popular with the hitters, heck, 12 feet is not popular, but its a viable solution for all.

Well and of course outlaw all lefty's with that inside out swing...now that's deadly...





July 13, 2011
CSinc
Men's 50
13 posts
As a pitcher I don't advocate going up the middle, but it often is unavoidable. You will get your occasional roidhead who has no morals or compassion and will try to take you down, but for the most part guys are just trying to hit the ball...at our age, even if you are playing ASA ball against the younger generation or senior ball, we need to PROTECT ourselves! The main issue I see, since the rules implemented to protect us(mask/shin guards, or sign off) is the machoism of guys even our age to put a little gear on. My buddy took one on the shin last year that swelled up like a watermelon and he could barely walk, but even he is too manly to even wear shin guards this year. Sorry guys I'm donning the shin guards & knee pads at the very least, and I am not "ashamed" to put on a mask if need be. We ain't kids anymore, if more pitchers put on the gear, there wouldn't be such a stigma attached to it.
July 13, 2011
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
I am not a ball expert, but I keep hearing about this .52 ball versus the .44. Last night they tried the .52 ball, one of the pitchers got hit right in the face. Afterwards, he said and I quote him " I didn't feel any difference in getting hit with the .52 as the .44", hummmmmmmmmm.
July 13, 2011
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
BTW........he said it didn't feel like any sock he has ever been hit with.........
July 13, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
The ball is sad, 6.
Sad ball for a Sad Dog.
It's a piece of crap and will only create more problems and injuries.
Sad Dog for a sad ball.

The ball is a true "dog", Saddy
And you most assuredly, must be its Daddy.
July 13, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Parman.
Good discussion.
Some interesting points.

It's obvious there are OTHER ways
to solve the pitcher vulnerability problem
than kill the entire game with a 52 core sock.

I think hitting back through the middle
is here to stay.
You have guys who say it can't be helped
and other guys who say when you do
they will, too.

I don't have a problem with it.
Making HR's singles is not only more fun
it keeps the most dangerously strong guys
from hitting the middle as they will always be able to hit it out which is what they want to do
anyhow.
If you make the arc higher and the rubber farther back ande wider you give the pitchers
more to work with to keep from getting hit.

Screens is good solution, too
to keep the hitting part of our game
fun enough to want to invest and play
while offering protection to the pitcher.
Screens would work
and can be made and keep attached/locked
to all backstops so they'd be present at all fields.

July 13, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
southernson,CSinc; yes pitching outside and low to a batter will most likely get a ball hit right back at ya,i don't think that should be a prol,it is the damn hitters who feel the need to go middle just because their ego has been bruised by a pitcher when getting them out by fooling them into swinging at bad pitches and such.i pitch for the kids a lot and yes i usually know when it is more likely to come back at me,and sometimes i throw a pitch for that same result(DP in effect and such).making the pitch height limit higher does not in any way make it safer for the pitcher,in fact i have heard from players that they would have to hit middle more often than if the pitch was flatter,this is what they said.to me that is like saying you have to go middle when all the hrs are gone,another lame excuse.

i only have a prol with middle hitting when it is real obvious that it is only being done, to go after a pitcher,that is very cowardly as someone has said already,then i can see retaliation to be in effect for the opposing team.pitchers need to let their team mates know that unless they want to pitch they should stay away from the middle,unless it is by accident.

as for the 52 ball did this player finish the game,have any broken bones,with the 44 most likely wouldn't of finished the game and would have had serious damaged done to his face.
i have seen people hit with the 52 and they just shake it off,while with the 44 ball it is a serious contusion,broken bone,or even an emergency room visit.
i was hit last nov with a 44 ball in the calf of my leg and it still has a spot that is a hard lump from the ball,52 would not have done that.
July 13, 2011
Tate22
Men's 55
260 posts
CSinc, you hit the nail on the head. Protective equipment prevents injuries. Southernson - great points, but one question also directed to Gary 19. How does the use of protective equipment bastardize the game? I agree that the screen in the field does, but an individual choosing to use legal equipment that gives him no advantage should not be a concern of anyone else on the field.

As for the ball, in a recent tournament at Camp Pendleton, a less than lively ball was in use, I don't know if it was a .52 core, but it was no Trump Stote 44/375. All senior bats were allowed. A pitcher took a shot to the gut and ended up having emergency surgery to remove his spleen and possibly part of his appendix. My point is that skilled senior players, with restrictive equipment like single wall bats and league-type balls, can still hit any ball hard enough to hurt pitchers or infielders.

Base coaches in professional base ball now wear batting helmets because a minor league coach was killed by a line drive to the head a few years ago. Is that bastardization of baseball? When the game began catchers didn't even wear masks. As a 30+ year safety/HR professional, I've learned the best prevention to injuries is to engineer out the risk. In this case, the risk engineering is best found in personal protective equipment. WHO FRIGGIN' CARES IF THE PITCHER LOOKS LIKE A HOCKEY GOALIE!! At least you'll be having a beer with him after the game instead of visiting him in the hospital.

My vote, leave the ball alone, encourage your pitchers to armor up and quit bitching about balls legally hit to the middle of the field.
again JMHO
Don Newhard

July 13, 2011
Tate22
Men's 55
260 posts
Also - I really like the thought of increasing the height limit. Just played in a local tournament which allowed 16 foot arc. Not as easy to tee off on a pitch when you have to concentrate harder on your timing. I've always said "High rhymes with Cry". Telling pitchers they are only allowed to throw cookie height is like telling a baseball pitcher they can only throw 70mph or less.
I've played against two posters on this post, Stick 8 and Einstein. They are both great hitters that would still be great hitters with higher arc. Maybe restricted arc is the biggest bastardization of all. Baseball lowered the mound and survived. I think our game would survive with a rule change favoring the pitcher.
July 13, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
I still see your walk off homer against me
come to life now and again.
Didn't think you could/would do it
and you DID.
Truth be told, Don,
I love pitching more than anything these days.

I agree with you about the arc, the depth and width of the rubber.
I would give the pitcher 12 feet behind the rubber
or to 66 feet x 3 feet or the width of the rubber.
Billy would love that too, I'm sure.
Thanks for the props.
You're not so bad yourself.

Good luck this year and
Hope to see you soon.

Say hi to Thomas, Billy,
Dave and the boys for me.



July 13, 2011
Wes
Men's 65
310 posts
Parman---I run a tournament early in the year--I do not want that team at my tiurnament can you give me a name
gwesarchit@bellsouth.net
July 14, 2011
Parman
11 posts
We sponsor ourselves and don't have a ton of money but I am going to try and convince everyone on the team to pitch in $5-10 each and buy Big ED a facemask and shin guards. There is no need to take a beating out there even if it is unintentional.
GaryHeifner, your idea of an 11th fielder within 5 feet either side of 2nd base is excellent.I think that would put a stop to this in about 3 seconds. There would probably be a lot more double plays if we went to this too. Guys would "avoid" hitting it up the middle.
July 14, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
I'm all for protecting the pitcher, but screens and a 11th player is not the answer. If you do this, you need to call it something other than softball. There is an old saying "two wrongs, don't make a right". Everyone wants to talk about protection or safety. Do you really? We want all the advantages of feeling young again with the technology being presented to us. But at what risk? I've been fortunate to have pitched for 25 plus years in this game. When the day comes when I can't field my position for whatever the reason (age or equipment), I'm done. I will not be a hypocrite by wearing equipment to protect myself playing defense. Integrity should mean something in our game. It's one thing to make an improvement to our game and another to give clear advantage to one aspect of it. Some of you will say you can't stand in the way of technology. BS!! Major league baseball has and is still America's pastime. Joe is very passionate about the game and I respect him for that. He is the most vocal here on the bat and ball issue. But we keep adding things to protect players and realistically have playing a game that really only resembles softball that we grew up playing because we still wear gloves and hit a pitched ball. I don't want to make this an issue with Joe and the equipment. I want to make this an issue with the way we played and are now playing the game. The senior associations can make whatever rules and use the equipment they want to use. We all have a choice. I hope to meet most of you on here during some tourney ball and discuss all of this in person. In the meantime you'll find me swinging good old fashion aluminum. JMO
July 14, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Pricer is right. Most of the changes that have been made go back to the equipment.

Get rid of one thing, and you can get rid of a whole bunch of changes that have been made to accommodate the fragile egos of old men.
July 14, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Jeff.
Well said.
We have a number of issues in softball that are not being resolved via inertia and the fear of alienating anyone
as some have pushed for the Sad ball panacea
which will NEVER work at any level
as lively bats and balls are at the core of the experience
of our game, aluminum or otherwise.

We used to play with aluminum and good balls, Jeff
and no one was complaining then.
What the heck happened?
I hit the longest ball I ever hit in my life
with a 405 EST and a blue dot one night
in the Bar Area, 500 feet if it was an inch
with the wind blowing straight down the left field line.
Problem is someone is trying to get us off those good balls
and decent good bats and it's America remember
where money moves and talks all by itself.

If we can get back to good balls like the Blue Dot was
and good bats like the good alumninum (Connection, EST and DeMarini) we'd all be fine.
But someone/something is trying drive us away from
where we were happy playing with lively bats and balls
all the while blaming it on us.
Hmmmmmmmmmmm and how did that happen.
Lobbying and self interest are as American as apple pie
but it doesn't make anyone correct or right
or representative of anyone but their Sad selves.

Lively bats and ball are are MUST for us
and whether we use screens or masks or scooters
as courtesy runners they need to be the first thing
that we ensure, is OFF the table.




July 14, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
500' yeah right,bruce meade holds/held the record at 510' with metal,and you can't even come close to him.

why it is all about you whiney,what is it, if they go to the 52 ball, that has you so scared,your lack of ability to real know how to hit...really why are you so scared.real hitters will have no prol with this ball,they'll still get their hits and hrs will be hit,and guess what,they'll still have fun when they get to play a more rounded game and not just blast away ball.

also who is in this conspiracy that you keep alluding to,name some names so we can stop them from ruining our game, as you say that it is what is gonna happen.you just throw crap out there with no facts to verify anything you ever say,and say that is the truth,yeah right chicken little.again give us the names of these conspirators,that are trying to ruin our game.
July 14, 2011
DoubleL10
Men's 65
809 posts
Yeah, but Bob how far do you think Bruce would have hit it with an Ultra II? I remember the first time I played against Bruce in senior ball, he had some club he was swinging. Then, he got a DeMarini and I saw him hit 17 (!) out in the ISSA in Virginia in the late 90s! He's definitely one guy I would not like to see hit middle - and I never have seen him come that close.
July 14, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
larry, you are so right i couldn't even think on far he could hit that one with a ultra,i have seen him mishit the dang ball 350'.
but hey i have seen you hit a few quite a ways larry.good luck in dalton..........
July 14, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Sad Dog, Sad Ball.
Same sad story, same sad song.
The 52 core sock probably suits YOUR game
very well, Saddy, being slower and less dangerous
but don't project your inabilities and weakness
on the rest of us.
We like lively bats and ball and aren't afraid
to play with them and we say so yesterday,
today and tomorrow.
Sad ball, sad dog and your
sad contingent of losers.
July 15, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1953 posts
I played against Bruce, too. If memory serves, he played on Nelson Paint/NELCO in the late 70's. Geez he hit 'em a long way. He put on a show in El Paso once and was just crushing the ball. Ultra2 in his hands?? Might have been the first time we saw a ball explode on contact!
July 15, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Yes he did Mark. Played there with Joe Young, I do believe.

Along with Macenko and Galloway, perhaps one of the three best ever.
July 15, 2011
neck10
488 posts
I didnt want to wear a seat belt when they first came out the pitcher is the closest guy to the batted ball.Im sure glad you guys who are so against safty arnt setting the safty rules for my work.screans just make sense,we use them in our leauge work great screen gets hit about once every three games you can still go up the middle just cant hit the pitcher if you disagree with the screen for safty then you must want to hit the pitcher and you are only tsakin about three feet of the field out of play and only 6ft high any thing over that heiight is still in play.
July 15, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
Neck10, your observation of anyone not wanting to use a screen because they're looking to drill the pitcher is just asinine! Did we talk about using screens when we played the major teams back in the days of Meade, Macenko, Androff & so on? They hit the back thru the box with unbelievable speed. I'll answer that,NO! I don't care if some folks want screens for their lge play. But if you bring in screens for the pitchers, screens for infielders won't be far behind. Come up with another name for your game like death ball, kill shot or hockey ball. Because if you put any thought into it at all you'll realize youíre creating a different game. I don't have a problem for you or anyone else playing your game of whatever you want to call it. But don't call it softball. We used to wear sliding shorts, a kneepad for sliding or maybe a sleeve for our thigh or arm. Now your suggesting shin guards, screens & facemasks. Explain to me resemblance of the game of softball here without the obvious? We all have to make decision for ourselves, but what would be interesting to see would be senior tourneys for both composites and aluminum just to gage interest. Aluminum tourneys could use the old cork center strung wound ball. The game is no longer about skill offensively or defensively. Not once have I read a thread or post on this site about anyone or team going out for infield or outfield practice. Donít say it's not needed because we all no how to play the game. Címon boys, most of you have lost the joy of playing the total game of softball because youíre so focused on the hitting aspect. You can't correct a problem until you admit that we have one. JMO
July 15, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Jeff.
I reread your comments just so I would be sure of what I'm about to say.
I disagree with EVERY point you made.
Lively bats and balls have been at the crux of our game
from when Babe Ruth went from single digit home runs
to 59.
Defense is even MORE important now then ever before.
It's what wins close games and championships.
Pitching is more important now in trying to get the balls
off batters sweet spots.
Speed on the basebaths and in the outfield are even more important
now than ever before if you're interested in winning
which is central to the experience of playing right next
to lively bats and balls.

Our game is evolving but it's most central aspect isn't safety,
Jeff.
It's fun and hitting with lively bats and balls IS fun
and integral to our game.
The guys that planned for us to go to that 52 core sock
misunderstood the importance of a ball that hits well enough
to sustain our support, interest and game.
It was a good idea and great try but it's snake bit
for good reason and doomed to fail.

Screens would be a positive adjustment for senior ball
if not all ball if safety were the key issue
would it not, Jeff?
You protect the pitchers without detracting from the fun/joy
of hitting far, fast and well.

And lastly for now,
Babe Ruth said if he'd a been trying to hit singles and doubles
he'd have batted 650.
I believe him, too.
It's being able to drive the ball, put pace on the ball that brings the essential joy to the game for the most of us, Jeff.
Of this there is no doubt.
Singles derby, Jeff.
No.
Home run derby shows the depth and satisfaction of hitting a ball
far, fast and hard.



July 15, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
And Jeff.
Where were/are all the injuries that were supposed to be
part of playing with present day equipment, eh?
Where?
Not in Reno or Las Vegas or Phoenix or Manteca
or Salem or Utah for years now.
They don't show up.
I broke more bones in softball before the composite bats
were around.

They simply don't occur and I hazard
more would be generated by that new ball which kicks
like a tennis ball on asphalt.

The people are right in this regard, Jeff.
And we have spoken.
That's why all the associations have senior bats
and good 44 x 375 balls at a minimum.
It's America and the majority
got it right on this one.
July 15, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
And Neck.
You're comments were terrific and right on
and not asinine one bit.
If anyone's ass showing around here
it sure isn't yours.
Screens would work just fine for us.
I've played with them and without them
our game is intact either way
and even more fun.
July 15, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Pricer, while yes those guys were hitting the ball incredibly hard back then they also weren't hitting at 50, or often more, year old pitchers.

The bats are just ridiculous for the ages of the fielders. And then to have to use things like screens to keep people safe is further absurdity.

In many ways, right now, the senior game sucks, and tournament participation reflects that.
July 15, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
Joe, again we can agree to disagree. I'm more focused on the entire game, where some are more focused on personal satisfaction & gratification. The two of us just look at the game differently. But like I said before, I'll play with whatever the rules indicate until I feel I can no longer perform physically or when they start mandating screens & safety equipment.
July 15, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
Joe, again we can agree to disagree. I'm more focused on the entire game, where some are more focused on personal satisfaction & gratification. The two of us just look at the game differently. But like I said before, I'll play with whatever the rules indicate until I feel I can no longer perform physically or when they start mandating screens & safety equipment.
July 15, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
pricer ssusa has already mandated safety equipment unless you sign a wavier,just saying that our game is real dangerous already.ssusa needs to take a hard look at the safety of the senior player from this hot bat/ball combo.
July 15, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
I'm referring to the point & time the associations indicate without the equipment we cannot play.
July 15, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Jeff.
You are not focused on the entire game
because the majority of the players
DO NOT AGREE WITH YOU.
You're focused on YOUR agenda,
not ours.
Lively bats and balls are ABSOLUTELY
essential to the positive experience
of playing softball.
This is the message from today's investors
and players,
You cannot go to compromised/restricted
flight balls and be successful.
You will not.
And we don't have to go anywhere
we don't want to and we won't support
sockball USA because it just ain't fun.
Mark my words.

July 16, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
Then guess what Joe? The majority of senior softball is not focused on the entire game. Let's not confuse the two. Maybe the majority is saying they prefer the hot bats/balls, but please don't insult our intelligence by indicating their focused on the entire game.
July 16, 2011
Sunshine1949
Men's 60
29 posts
I don't have as much control as to the exact location of where I'm hitting the ball....I just try to drive the ball, if the pitcher throws it outside he needs to prepare himself for the obvious and not complain about the outcome. I would never want to hurt someone but that is realty.
July 16, 2011
Omar Khayyam
984 posts
Sunshine, I wouldn't say I have great bat control either, but I have only hit a pitcher 3 times in the last 10 years. Don't I get outside pitches? Sure. I drive them to right or I let it go for a strike (unless 3rd strike). Somehow, I don't hit them right at the pitcher.

You are probably overestimating the control of the average pitcher.Of course they are aiming somewhere, but lack of ability, wind, fatigue after pitching several games, slightly wrong release, etc. can all result in a low pitch over the outside corner. I would hate to think they are being "punished" for pitching in this direction.

Do I come really alert when my pitch goes there? Of course, but it happens, and even a really alert pitcher cannot always avoid being hit with our excessively hot bats and lively ball. Still doesn't excuse the batter who should do everything in his power to avoid trying to hit the pitcher. Back to the start of this thread, I'm with the majority who think trying to deliberately hit the pitcher is poor sportsmanship. How to resolve it? Lots of suggestions above that I'm in sympathy with.
July 16, 2011
Momoney
2 posts
I've listened to both sides of the issue of going up the middle. I'm a pitcher also but I can't speak anybody else,but i sure wouln't want to pitch behind a screen at this level.To me the middle is part of the field and i try to get hitters to go that way and hope that i'll be able to stop the ball and make the hitter try to hit somewhere where my fielders are located. Myself, i wouldn't want to put on protective equipment because i feel it would stoop my ability to get out of the way. Now i've played against teams where some hitters would let me know that they were going up the middle and i would knod to them that it was okay. I always try to protect mysel at all times. I feel that when it gets to a point where i can't protect myself on the mound ,then i knew it was time for me to play another position, but that's just how i feel about goint up the middle.
July 17, 2011
Sunshine1949
Men's 60
29 posts
Omar,this is my first year at senior ball and I have not hit a pitcher yet....but I did come awful close last weekend and it bothered me, and that is why I joined the conversation. I also realize that the pitchers do not have complete control over their pitches and when I have to hit an outside pitch, I'm trying to hit it out to right center....but as I did this last weekend I pulled it a little, and it went up the middle. I totally respect the pitchers and with these hot bat/ball combination I feel they should where the protective gear to avoid an unintended shot up the middle. I would hope that no one intentionally trys to hit a pitcher but incidents will happen.. by accident.
But I have had pitchers that have enough control that they throw a lot of outside pitches and they are aware they are raising the odds of getting hit...hopefully unintetionally. If you are one of those wear the gear.
July 17, 2011
stick8
1261 posts
Just got back from SPA nationals in Dalton GA and we (OKI Players) had a discussion about this issue. We all agreed SPA has it right in their home run rule. For 50 major plus we were allowed 7 home runs with 1 up. The key was after the 1 up instead of an out it was a walk. This does two things: 1) the batter (and team) isn't penalized 2)there won't be as much a tendency to hit the middle thus it helps protect the pitcher. SSUSA should revert back to that rule as they had it before.
July 17, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
stick8 that does not protect the pitcher what so ever if a ball is still hit up the middle.also saying that you have to go middle when hrs are done is a cop out,unless that is where you hit all your hrs.if you can't stay away from the pitcher when hrs are gone,why can you if you have some to hit,just BS to me saying that you have to go middle when hrs are gone.i do think in the M+ div you should get more than 7 tho,at least 10, if not open for the big guys.
July 17, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
You got it right, Stick.
That's the way to go and SPA is going to get a lot of support from us as they continue
to listen to us and get it right.

Robert.
You disagree with SPA about what's best for senior ball players, don't you.
Tell us why again.

Jeff.
We, the majority, have it right about lively bats and balls and SPA's decision is realizing
we had it right all along.
You can't penalize HR's as outs
and there's no good reason regarding the players and the game to do so.

With the equalizer it keeps more powerful teams from running away with any game.
And when the big guys can go out
less hot balls get hit through the middle.
This is irrefutable stuff, Jeff,
if you play the same game we do
regardless of whatever else might be going on.




July 17, 2011
stick8
1261 posts
Mad Dog no one I know specifically stated you have to go middle when the hr's are burned up. I clearly stated if hr's are burned and it's a single instead of a out then there won't be as much of a tendency for players to hit thru the middle. They'll be more apt to swing away. No doubt there will be some who hit the middle but if it was an out you'd see a whole lot more players hitting thru the middle tring to stay in the yard--especially against a 4 man infield. As far as protecting the pitcher the only true way to "protect" the pitcher in the sense of the word is to put a screen up. But that should never happen, the game alrweady has too many gimmicky type rules.
July 17, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
stick why is that a tendency to go middle when hrs are burned up with an out for extra's.to me sounds like just a reason to hit at the pitcher,as far as i'm concerned.if the OF plays the batter straight up like they should,there is no more room in the OF for one area(left to right)they should be spaced the same distance apart from each other.the only open area would be the bloop hit just over the INF to all fields.i see no reason for a batter to be hitting at a pitcher just b/c they can't hit a hr,do they just swing away with the 5th run on third with less than 2 outs or do they attempt a bloop,or go for a single by pulling the ball,well that is what should be done when hrs are gone,batters need to learn to hit(and not just attempt to blast away) and stay off the pitcher.i feel if i can do it,then why shouldn't everyone be able to,its not that hard.
yes the pitcher will throw pitches that no matter what, they will come back at them,but anything on the inside of the strike area,should be pulled and not hit middle.

whiney=ignore button....
July 18, 2011
neck10
488 posts
pricer I have total bat control and dont have to hit the middle ever so why does anyone hit the middle thats the answer do it like ussa does home runs in lower divisions the batter is out and his spot is out every time it comes up for the rest of game seems to work for home runs why want it work for protecting the pitcher & back when we were young most players played 2or 3 hundred games a year & were in shape & still had reflexes.
July 18, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
In Blazing Saddles,
after Gabby Johnson speaks to the assembly
in nothing less than authentic frontier gibberish
the MC follows with,
"Now, who can argue with THAT."
Thanks so much to Sad Dog and Mel Brooks from Blazing Saddles
for my opening Monday morning laugh.

Of course more balls and necessarily hot balls get hit through the middle when the big boys can't try to take it out.
Of course.
That's just common sense, Stick.

SPA's got it right.
NCSSA has got it right.
With or without screens.
They got it right.






July 18, 2011
Parman
11 posts
This particular game 5 HR's were allowed and neither team had hit more than 3 in the game if I recall correctly.
July 18, 2011
stick8
1261 posts
Mad Dog that's just a mindset that most power hitters have. If the hr limit is used and it's a single then the mindset won't necessarily be there. Some can adjust their swing to go backside some can stay in the yard pulling. Some will hit thru the middle and in reality that's not hitting at the pitcher, it's hitting it thru the infield. I understand your point about bat control but with he bats and balls we use it's easy for a power hitter to hit a "excuse me" type home run.
July 18, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
and that stick is the very reason the 52 ball should be used,no more oopsie hrs.hey i even get them and shouldn't be hitting them with a mishit swing.make the swing mean something,don't let a bad swing get you a hr,never should be that way.also the batter can feel assured that he will not kill anyone if he happens to go middle and does get a pitcher.
July 18, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Not it's not, Robert,
the reason the 52 ball should be used.
That ball isn't lively enough to sustain
interest and investment whatever else it might be good for.
Why not use a Sponge, Bob?
That wouldn't hurt anyone.
Zero injuries per year.
I think you might have a new campaign
to endorse.
July 19, 2011
southernson
254 posts


Good discussion guys, some valid points on all sides,certainly understand if a guy wants to wear protection, he has that right.

Pricer, I'm with you, it's not my choice.

Einstein, There's a certain ring of political conspiracy theory that sometimes is spot on....
we've all seen it.

"why not use a sponge Bob?" I'm sorry, whether you agree or not, now that's *&^%%$# funny right there....Lord please forgive me and bless the starving pygmies..well, you know the rest of the prayer...



July 19, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Is this a simple solution? Same balls as now, eliminate the special bats.

Why do we need bats that no one under 50 can use? It's not like our alternatives are 38-ounce XBHs and Bombats like some of you guys are acting.

Who here does not think they can hit with current U-trip or NSA bats?
July 19, 2011
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Gary.
The balls when we were playing when I started playing senior ball
with metal single and double wall bats were good to very good.
We don't have those balls available to us anymore
because of the 'movement' to dumb down our equipment.
We'd all go back to good balls and metal bats, tomorrow
because the bat/ball combo was good enough for us to have real fun.
Playing with a sock isn't fun enough to sustain interest, G.
July 19, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
Does anyone know what the difference in speed thru the infield is between all these balls being used travel? I could care less if once the ball goes thru the infield it and the speed increases and flies 450'. But it's the speed thru the infield which is just wrong.
July 19, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Joe, perhaps they aren't readily available now, but I don't know that they cannot be made available if that is the way people want to go.
July 19, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
basically close pricer,i have been able to get enough on it to get past infielders young and old,the 52 ball won't carry the 400+' that some of these egotistical players want it to.to me that is stupid as most fields fences are at 300'.your hr hitter will hit this ball around the 350-375' range when hit properly and gets his back spin like they should be doing,and that doesn't mean center hit the ball as we all know that results in a knuckle ball with any ball you use.a slightly downward swing is what to use,i look at it this way,if that swing is good enough for derek jeter(he has the training aide for it) and 90 % of all ball players,good enough for me.with the advent of the composite bat you see more players swinging up to make contact,hoping to just get enough on it to clear the fence,but usually ends up being an LFO and the batter coming back to the bench saying "hey i just missed that one",yeah right superstar.to me that is where the 52 needs to be implemented as that is very bad mechanics for hitting,swining level to slightly downward and strike the ball just south of center and get your back spin for carry.

oh as an afterthought,we all get to go home safely with this ball.
July 19, 2011
Mario
Men's 50
367 posts
Being a HR hitter myself, I would have to agree with Stick8. My normal swing will not go through the middle. I have hit Hr's to center field, but only when the pitcher tries to throw me outside. When HR's are gone and they penalize you for hitting another one, then sometimes I'll hit the middle. Every once in a while I'll get it within 3 feet of the pitcher. Most times he won't be able to reach it. I never purposely try to hit the pitcher, thats the way it used to be. You had enough respect for each other that you did not get it close enough to the pitcher for him to worry about it.
July 19, 2011
Mario
Men's 50
367 posts
Stick8, congrats on a great tourney. I'm really looking forward to Maumee.
July 19, 2011
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2617 posts
Congratulations from me also!
Mario, my thoughts exactly.
Bob, sorry but I agree with Einstein.
I'm playing fall league with the young guys and since our park is undergoing renovations we are playing at a Cobb County park. We're still using ASA bats but starting with a 40 cor ball and then, before the end of the season, going to a 52. I just told our coach to count me out next year.
July 19, 2011
stick8
1261 posts
Thanks Dale, same to you!! It was a lot of fun, just wish we could have played play-in games against a couple major teams. But it is what it is. Tonight I took about 15 or 20 swings with the Melee you sold me, with the wrapper on as you advised. It felt pretty good.
July 20, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
bruce that 40 ball is junk till it gets below 70 degrees and stays down there.once the heat gets to that ball forget it.the 52 does not change with temps.we play kids league with the 52 ball and use basically any bats but senior bats,and it travels real nice(in fact had 2 hit out on me just the other nite).there is no extra bad hops like whiney says there is(i have had one in 20 league games,it was a real hi hopper,batter just beat it into the ground)it is just his excuse for his inability to hit the ball.use the ad starr ball,it is about the best out there.......
July 20, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1953 posts
Mario-I also hit a lot of hr's to center and I know the one I hit through the middle at the pitcher is when I get that high, outside pitch that I love to hit out to left center(left handed batter) and I get on top of it and hit a line drive. Then it can whistle through the mound. I almost got a kid a couple weeks ago on just that pitch. Totally an accident, but with 2 strikes you have to hit that borderline outside pitch. I can't think of any situation in this game I play for fun, that I would be so angry I would try to hit a pitcher-period.


Bruce-by the way-congrats on your hall-of-fame achievement. Thanks again for saying hi at the TOC this year. I didn't realize at the time I was in the presence of greatness!
July 21, 2011
stick8
1261 posts
Webbie your just a stud!! lol
July 21, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1953 posts
Stick8-I can only hope to be as studly as you someday! :-)
July 22, 2011
stick8
1261 posts
I wouldn't recommend that Webbie lol
My teammates make look a lot better than I am.
July 22, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Geez guys, get a room! :)
July 23, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1953 posts
Whassamatter, Gary-can't stand to see a little humor on here??

Stick-I just reread my post and what was meant to be an assessment of why I might inadvertently go up the middle got boastful-I apologize. I know I couldn't even walk on the same field with some of you guys.
July 23, 2011
Gary19
Men's 50
2617 posts
Sure I can Mark, hence my use of the smile at the end of my post.

July 23, 2011
Webbie25
Men's 60
1953 posts
Just yanking your chain a bit! :-)
July 24, 2011
miken44
78 posts
hitting the middle is for guys who cant hit any where else
July 24, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
HITTING MIDDLE IS A NATURAL THING TO DO FOR MOST HITTERS AS THAT IS WHAT WE A TAUGHT FROM LITTLE LEAGUE ON UP.I HAVE A PROL WITH THOSE THAT SAY THAT IS THE ONLY PLACE TO HIT WHEN THEIR HRS ARE GONE.......
July 24, 2011
miken44
78 posts
hitting middle aint natural its away of padding numbers and average
July 24, 2011
mad dog
Men's 60
3935 posts
hitting back up the middle is natural,if you played baseball as a little and growing up,we were taught to hit the ball where it came from,is all i'm saying.i know what your trying to get at and i do agree with you,that if possible stay out of there,but for some who did play baseball,it is a hard thing to break away from.
July 24, 2011
Pricer
Men's 50
620 posts
Miken44, where did you grow up playing ball. Every hitting coach in the game, pro on down will tell you, to drive the middle. Next thing you'll want is pitchers hand is out.
July 24, 2011
miken44
78 posts
pricer i know what we were taught but until you have hit a guy and seen him lying on the ground rolling around then you see a huge knot on his leg or seen a guy take one the chest
July 24, 2011
gary c
411 posts
pricer mad dog
Sounds like guys who grew up playing baseball talking to a guy who just played softball.

Miken44
Get rid of the ultras and pitchers would be much safer.
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